Template talk:Infobox German railway vehicle

4485:, I agree that, ultimately, we want a basic template or set of templates for rail vehicles. If there's more than one, they should be consistent (is that what you meant by congruent) in their parameter names. And I also agree that it's not ideal for subsequent non-German editors to have to contend with German parameters in an article infobox. We have a plan to deal with that and I think that's the obvious next step, following the pattern set e.g. by "Infobox:Berg". After that, I'm happy to work with others to work out how we can rationalise having "Infobox:Locomotive" and this one. For a start, it's obvious that, although this has been mainly used for German rolling stock, it's not limited to that and is already used for Austrian and Swiss locos as well. The "German" in "Infobox:German railway vehicle" only refers to German Knowledge (XXG). But the template can be used for any rail vehicle of any country e.g. here's a Czech-built Philippine tram that uses the infobox: 3018:? No... Content has to be translated. All the same information will be able to be displayed, but on the English wiki, you have to use English parameters. If you want to write a script to translate the German template to english, you are welcome to. Hell, I can just give you the one I'm going to write to convert all the existing pages, but the ability to copy and paste material from another wiki is not justification for having a template in a foreign language. And to be clear, this is nothing against Germany, the German language, trains, etc... This is just the common sense idea that if you are on an English Wiki, you use English. Now if you want to support both 5164:, but I thought we were going for a simpler solution. Step 1: copy this German language-based template to Template:Schienenfahrzeug; Step 2: turn this template into its English equivalent (and prolly rename more accurately as Template:Railway vehicle); Step 3: turn Template:Schienenfahrzeug into a substitution template so that it never exists for very long before being replaced. Finally, in slower time, consider absorbing Template:Locomotive into it. I think I can do Steps 1 and 2. Step 3 needs a substitution wizard. Step 4 is a railway community discussion. -- 191: 173: 3435:'s suggested English parameters. We then create the sort of bot used elsewhere to convert e.g. "Infobox Berg" to "Infobox mountain". That enables both approaches to be achieved. First, we translators can import the German infobox and have it displaying both parameters and data in English immediately using "Infobox Schienenfahrzeug". Second, within say a few days, along comes the bot and replaces the infobox automatically with the (now Anglicised) "Infobox German railway vehicle" retaining the data. For an example of how this works, look at 3826:. Those templates contain automatic translation to the English-language-equivalent templates, and they are substed automatically by a bot. This means that you can copy a template in full directly from the German Knowledge (XXG), and a bot will come along and convert it into its English-language equivalent. It's quite functional, and it means that we have fewer foreign-language template transclusions persisting in en.WP. It also means that you do not have to write translated documentation, which can be time-consuming. – 4420:. It's not a hard concept to get. It's just a terrible waste of other editors' time because we end up doing a whole pile of repetitive parameter and data translation every time we import an article when, with an infobox like this, we don't need to. And with the course of action we've proposed, your problem is solved because the infobox gets substituted by an English version. Why would you want to impose hours of nugatory work on the few editors that can translate articles for Knowledge (XXG)? Seems a tad unfair IMHO. 3287:

elsewhere and we're all happy. For example, if I import "Infobox Berg" from German Knowledge (XXG), it initially displays in English despite the German parameters. Then within a day, a bot replaces it with "Infobox mountain". I haven't wasted an etime and the original infobox has already translated some of the standard data for us all. Job done. Please slow down, try and understand how this infobox works and what it achieves and then move forward properly as has been done elsewhere.

142: 478: 343: 325: 259: 4455:, I'm with Z08 ion this. All 'Infobox locomotive'-s should be congruent across their articles (reader's interest). So they be merged or something like that. (This is the ultimate target, which can take multiple steps). Of course, the language should be English here. First of all, because in editing enwiki, English is the editor's language. Your argument that we should cover de-copy/en-paste is 241: 4205:, you can see how copying and pasting from a foreign-language WP is supported. It works great. You just copy and paste, or subst directly, and the template displays fine in the article. If you do not subst the template, a bot will come along and convert the template into English for you. It makes editors' job much easier. What is your objection to having a template that works in this way? – 111: 269: 2726:

merit, I think 9 years ago when this template was created, both wikis were MUCH smaller and policies were drastically different. There was clearly a huge push to pull pages from the German wiki to the English one. This made that process easier... Moving forward though, if you are creating a new page on the English wiki, i say use an English template. --

5385: 5277: 3746: 1188: 3952:. Totally agree with your A and B above. To answer your other question; I've added a few more loco articles this year and would reckon there are several hundred (not just German/German state) articles to go. Also if de.wiki updates an infobox, it's sometimes easier to import the whole thing again especially if there are long references. 437: 2944:@ Zackmann08. No worries. The template was never intended to be created from scratch; it was only ever an "import and automatically translate" tool; one of many we translators use. I took great care to try and get the translation right, although I'm always open to suggestions for improvement e.g. see my discussion above with 357: 4367:. Right now the ONLY thing I am talking about is redoing this template so that on an English wiki we have a fully ENGLISH template. If you want to copy and paste data from the German wiki, you have to translate the date to use a English template. I do no understand why this is such a hard concept for people to get. -- 2800:

So bottom line is, I don't mind what we do with this so long as a) it recognises and displays the German infobox when it is imported, b) translates data where that's feasible and c) doesn't lose the information and useful features of the German infobox. If a bot comes along and substitutes it without

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the job of the editor when importing data from de-wiki. It is this editor (like you, for example) that should be challenged to use the documentation (parameter translation table), not every next article editor. Having said this, I will try to keep the automated-translation option as you like to work

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because I thought no one would be interested and that they would come and try and delete this template instead. And while I'd be prepared to propose improvements there if I felt I had the support of other editors, I think there'd be more chance of success, if we've sorted out a good English template

3559:

is going to come along and imply that I hate foreign languages and that I'm "pushing ahead and destroying" their work, that's fine. There is a long list of other projects I can work on. I'll leave this to someone else to do. This is such a no brainer. This is an ENGLISH wiki, not a German one. If it

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etc.). 2. For these omissions, create a draft template in enwiki by c/p (i.e., with German parameter names). 3. Run the bot/AWB param-translator across these. (If this fails or is not practical after all, nothing is lost. If you get data from German, translate it yourself. If you can't -- then don't

3082:

A sort of practical solution: in the future, we expect a bot (or AWB) that translates de-parameter into en-parameter (100% coverage). It can edit all infobox transclusions (today: 306 articles). All fine. To catch possible future copy-paste infoboxes (when the dewiki Vorlage page is copy/pasted into

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to update existing transclusions. I won't be part of having this template support both German and English parameters though. If that is what everyone wants, that's fine. I will bow to consensus. I think it is a horrendous idea and will just make the template worse than it currently is so if that is

2822:

first please accept my apologies... I truly didn't mean any offense! You obviously put a lot of effort into making the template work and by 2008 standards (when it was made) it is a superb template! A better way for me to convey what I meant would be to say "by 2017 standards, as an English speaker

4059:

Agree, not constructive -- but illustrative it is. Nothing against you btw, and not confusing IMHO. My point is: we can list all params to be considered, but the editors "I want to be able to copy/paste, don't change anything" keep shouting, thereby blocking any improvement. Example in case: apart

3907:

If so, then it seems that the thing to do is either to ignore them or to add them to the English-language template after a discussion at WP:RAIL or some other appropriate forum. That is typically how template merges work, and this doesn't seem that different. It is unclear to me why the discussion

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the original purpose of the infobox. If you've ever tried importing and translating one of these hundreds of articles, you'd understand the sheer frustration of repeatedly translating every single parameter every time. This infobox solved that problem. By changing the parameters to English you are

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Thanks for giving me the better translations. I will update that. The one thing I will say is that I don't know how you are importing things from the German wiki... But with this change you will NOT be able to just copy and paste from the German wiki anymore. Nor, in my opinion, should you be able

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is a good idea. I'm not shutting the door on that option, but I don't think it is worth really discussing right now. As the template creator (and presumably someone who is fluent in German and knowledgeable about trains) how do the new parameters look? To be clear, NO information will be lost from

5075:

Looks good. Does "loc" mean that parameter only applies to locomotives? If so, should we not create other abbreviations e.g. "coach", "wagon", "railbus", "all"? For example, some of the parameters don't apply to locomotives ("class", "seats", "standing places", etc.) Quite a few apply to any rail

4999:

If I've followed you correctly I agree. Essentially the template we use (currently this one) to pick up de:Schienenfahrzeug should only use the parameters from de.wiki since any others will be superfluous. If we convert this to an entirely English infobox, then its function changes and we can add

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with a couple of tweaks. I could have a go at then turning this template into its English equivalent, but others may be better at that. What I am totally unable to do is the "subst" coding on "Infobox Schienenfahrzeug" that would then be needed to point or convert it to the new English version of

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spends a lot of ideas & time into this complicated template(s) issue. I'd say: good suggestions, and due improvements. By now, my sense of temperature scale says: A. de-copy/en-paste option should stay (100%); and B. complete parameter translation into the enwiki templates should be available

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in Spanish because I want to copy information from the Spanish wiki... If you are going to copy information from another wiki, I say it is on you to translate it. Otherwise you could make an argument to translate any template in existence to a foreign language. To your point, which is not without

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archived thread about it. Seems like it was originally done 7 years ago to make it easier to import things from the German wiki? Doesn't make sense to still have it that way, even if the documentation does explain the params. For non-german speakers there params might as well be random strings of

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is Spanish so that I can copy and paste stuff from the Spanish wiki. So do we now create a foreign language version of every template so I can copy and paste information from another language? Plus, isn't the information in the template going to need to be re-written so it is in English anyway?

2784:

There have been several other successful "wrapper" projects that preserve the German syntax and even automatically translate some data, so that translators can focus on the main text and not waste hours translating parameters. The best ones have a bot that comes along and converts the resulting

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As I explained above, there is plenty of precedent for importing infoboxes in that manner; it rarely if ever causes issues. This is not the place to create a policy against doing so. A bot to do as you suggest, even if there were a volunteer willing to code it, would be overkill. Massively so.

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I withdraw from this task. It is nigh undoable: 120 German parameters with their definition, into English parameters while keeping the definition (or not)? Too much. In the table you can see what I did, and try one for yourself to get an idea ;-). I hope some other solutions comes by. pinging

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This is an English wiki so the template and the params should ALL be in English. Supporting copy and paste from a foreign language wiki is ridiculous. If you want to copy information from another wiki, that's fine. But you use the English parameters and enter the information by hand just like

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seeing foreign language parameters, the solution is not to change this infobox so it cannot do its original job. It is to upgrade "Infobox Locomotive" so it's man enough to handle the data and features and then create a bot to come along afterwards and replace the infobox. That's what happens

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Long-winded: I learned that on internet (and so WP), subtleties and shortcuts by me do not work out well. Also, my home language is not English. So at my best, I write out my points using more words. I'm adding patience. If I ask something, I better be careful in preparation. That may cause

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so I 100% get where you are coming from and I liked that analogy. However, as I got into it I realized that it is just super complicated. I'm not saying the templates should never or could never be merged, but I strongly believe that it is not a good first step. Here is my plan of attack.

4506:-- I actually meant: consistent for the Reader in showing & interaction. IOW, they should have exactly the same look & feel for the Reader (And so, in the end they should be the same single template). Also: English param names is good for all English editors after initial creation. 4155:

just a reminder that I have a solution and have already offered to do all the work... The ONLY thing I am not willing to do is support copying an pasting from the German wiki. If you want to take info from another wiki then freaking convert it to English and use an English template.

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who knows maybe 10 words of German and next to nothing about trains, this is an extremely confusing template." I really am sorry for that comment. Not a constructive one on my part... You make a number of great points. As of right now, I do NOT think that merging this with

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OK. So, since we don't want to import that internal-dewiki-default-setting, any future new de-copy/en-paste editing with this template (as designed) should manually add those DB/DR-colors as Farbe input, when blank in dewiki. (note: I have fixed my sentence above:

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for the compliment). The reason for it was that I was translating hundreds of articles on German locomotives and rolling stock and was spending half my time converting the same old parameters to English every time. Not good use of time or translation skills. Also

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so, in my view, the best long term solution would be to upgrade Infobox Locomotive so it can do all that this one can. Then turn this into a wrapper for Infobox Locomotive (or whatever we call it). But I realise there may be sensitivities around that idea.

1533:

Ok. So I have translated all the params... When I say translated, I didn't actually put them into a translater. The new params reflect a combination of literal translations for some params, while others are just what the corresponding label reads.

5190:

Some weeks ago a similar template issue was solved (at TfD; User:Frietjes made a subst: form greatly, I remember). If that can be made that easily for this one: great. But somehow I expect the Frietjes-task will run into this same 120 parameter

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is the problem: translate the word (easy) and translate its German engineered meaning/definition (big problem). The ~120 dewiki parameters listed are very well defined over there (read directly from the design sheets, I guess ;-) ). But that is

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wasn't able to handle some of the parameters or non-locomotives. Finally it doesn't emulate the colour scheme of the German infobox that displays a different coloured header for different nations/railway companies; I think that's really

946:. If they're almost/nearly/85% identical, then run a TFD, get approval to "merge" them, and turn this into a wrapper of IB locomotive. Saves turning a massive table into an infobox, saves having to convert parameters, and saves time. 3301:

P.S. Do go and have a look at the colour coding of the original infobox which is an elegant feature that "Infobox Locomotive" could easily emulate. So for example the header bar of Bavarian state railway locos displays in blue (see

3439:. I uploaded the German "Infobox Gebirgsgruppe" on 8 Jan, the infobox automatically translated some of the more common data, and a day later the bot came along and substituted "Infobox mountain range", but retaining all the data. 4728:

However, this would require that the locomotives are added to Wikidata, with all their properties (infobox parameters). It takes a bot to copy and check the data from dewiki into Wikidata. This is a long road to go for Wikidata.

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my objection is that this is an ENGLISH wiki! Not a German one! Why on earth are we supporting the ability to copy and paste material for a foreign language? I could make the same argument and say ok well I want a version of

1091: 4918:. Oh and I've just discovered that we don't only have to consider "Infobox:Locomotive"; there's also "Infobox:Train", "Infobox:DMU", "Infobox:EMU", "Infobox:Train consist" and "Infobox:Steam tender" to think about. Whew! -- 3626:

has responded helpfully to that. So hang in there, I think we're now making genuine progress. But even if you leave, you've triggered a useful debate that looks like it might result in a constructive outcome, so thank you.

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I definitely agree with Zackmann08 on that the parameters should be available in English — only. Copy/pasting from dewiki is not acceptable as 'translation' (because: how does the English -language editor, in general, know

4082:

I can see why people are finding it difficult to make progress here. You are simply not helpful. If anyone would like to have a constructive conversation about improving this template, feel free to ping me from here. –

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asking & suggesting. Also, your "If we hate seeing foreign language ..." is overloading the discussion, because so far I have only see arguments (from multiple sides), and not, eh, hatespeech. Please, approach

4117:. Thanks for your helpful intervention. I think we have a course of action that most of us now support and that appears to achieve everyone's goals. I am happy to clone this template to the current redirect, 39: 1464: 4042:

Making up fake parameter names and asking why other editors did not do something is not constructive. I was trying to help, and you posted something confusing. Even so, I am still willing to help.

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I've had enough of this. Again, this issue is argued into death by the extreme requirement that it MUST be possible to "copy the de-infoboxcode 1:1 into the en:wiki page". I say: NO, is must not.

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hard to transform into an English engineering tradition. (To get the feeling: just try three random German parameters from the list). And after that: can you get it into the main English infobox?

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The German info box has 119 parameters. Each "?" question mark should be checked, and changed into something meaningful {{aye}} 'OK', {{nay}}, cmt, etcetera. Please discuss below the table. -

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A constructive way to proceed would be to post a list of parameter names that do not have an equivalent in one of the English-language templates. Then we could discuss how to convert them. –

4932:

OK. These are to be considered later, locomotives first. (You helpfully can edit them to say like: {{Infobox Shienenfahrzeug | boxtype=tram .. }}. That's good listing for later checks. OK?).

4975:. We can not accept any new parameters or constructs in this template. Especially not to cover some other de: template than de:Schienenfahrzeug. If you want to copy/paste data, it is up to 3394:

I'm finding the comments in this section difficult to follow, because of the esoteric markup used for the indenting. A guide to the correct use of indentation on talk pages may be found at

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The precedence is that this has happened in the past; specifically with German-language templates. I don't advocate it, but its better to be aware now, than surprised by a shitstorm later.

3355:

That said, this is the first time you mention the post-edit bot that automates the parameter 'translation' (replacement de→en). That is a good idea, and I'll take a look on how example

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So I return the task unfinished :-( because it is too complicated and will yield little, this way. I hope other editors can make better progress in this. Have a nice edit, you all. -

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objection is: that bot can not know how & what to edit ("translate") unless we tell him/her. Once we know, telling the bot what to do is the easiest part. More relevant now:

1208:

Once the conversion is done, translate the infobox to use ENGLISH parameters. The ONLY thing that will change with this step is that the params will be in English, so instead of

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is just a redirect to this one. We could carbon copy this template to "Infobox Schienenfahrzeug" so it continues to carry out the present function and convert this one using

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This will be broken up into sub steps where both german and English params are supported, a bot is run to translate all params to English, then the German params are removed.

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3. DePiep does not want a second, German-serving-only infobox next to the enwiki one: the enwiki template should be the one. (I, DePiep, support this DePiep approach, btw).

2951:

The new parameters look to be a faithful translation, but "axel" should be "axle" and, for European articles, I usually use "colour" not "color". However, in the light of

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OK, AFAICT. There may be a need to keep the German names (perhaps in a copy of this template) so that templates from de.Knowledge (XXG) can be copied here and Subst'd.

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without changing anything else. All params stay the same... This is something that no one can argue with. The template needs to be converted to use Infobox as a base.

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a new enwiki template page, as was the old option), we can do this: 1. Crosscheck and list all dewiki templates that are not in enwiki at all (de:4350 T − 306 T − ?

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I like that; it makes sense. I hadn't realised it was a default setting and agree we don't want to automatically emulate that here. Neat solution. Thanks again. --

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Yes I understand: you want to translate de-words into en-words (parameter names). But I do NOT want a second infobox (all English, 300 P) next to an existing one

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Please let us know here when new German templates are introduced here, and their distinctive parameters. For now, the locomotive will be enough work to adapt. -

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is going to cause this much argument then someone else can work on the template. This is causing me too much of a headache. I'm out and onto other projects. --

74: 4557:, and all param names like "Farbe1" into "Colour1". Main task now: make sure the main en-template can accept all those parameters (eg Farbe1, i.e. Colour1). - 3453:

Your indenting was fine, under the circumstances. We don't need to crate any bot, just mark the German-language version as requiring auto-substitiution (see

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for at least the 5th time, all the bot will do is translate the PARAMETERS to the English version. If you look at the massive table above the German param

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Today there are ~306 articles here having this (de-parameter) template. Can you give an indication of how many were added (from de-wiki) last year, 2016? -

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default to DR colors, not even a "Infobox German railway vehicle" (sidenote: 'German' is the language right, not the German-DR-ownership?). I propose to:

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I have not even started to comprehend what the fuss is about. Template merging: good - Supporting an automatic infobox translation method: Also good.

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I think there may be merit for merging down the road, but I really want to focus on just getting this template looking better and in English first. --

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I'm coming very late to this discussion, and it looks like there has been both progress and difficult argument. One out of two isn't bad, I suppose.

3739:

At this point I've just basically exhausted myself with this template. This is where I stand, and note that these are obviously just my opinions...

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is another example of common German template that gets substituted. That must happen thousands of times - it's their standard citation template. --

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that discussion makes my head want to explode... Thanks for linking to it! Had no idea there had been such an indepth discussion before. I like

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I guess I just don't see any reason to do that. That opens just an insane flood gate of precedent. For example, I could then make a version of

5441: 5426: 1407: 3318:) etc. The DRG locos seem to have lost their Reichsbahn red though - not sure how that's happened. The full colour scheme on German Wiki is 291: 4660:

So this is a triangular issue, and not within enwiki. It involves iw, language translation and template merging (skip Wikidata). Maybe the

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While the idea is sympathic, it is too much constraining. Again, in the discussion above, it has blocked (!) discussion & development.

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shows the number of passenger coach articles that could be using this template once imported. A quick look shows there are dozens more at

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I'm not sure you're tracking the detail of the discussion. There has been a useful resolution of one issue in the section below thanks to

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Motorbauart = Anzahl und Bauart der Motoren (z.B. 2 x 12-Zylinder-V-Motor mit Abgasturbolader und Ladeluftkühlung, 4 Takt, wassergekühlt)

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I support. Especially splitting the action in into three independent steps. (maybe the merge doesn't even need a TfD, just consensus?) -

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That doesn't change the fact that they were made in the first place and the lack of constructive discussion is overriding the point. --

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the template with the next step I am proposing. All that will change is that English parameters will be used instead of German ones. --

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German params must be covered, somehow, in the en:infobox loc. Non-loc articles, like "train" articles etc will follow later (check

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My only concern is whether changing the parameter names will mean the imported infobox fails to display, which is its main purpose.

20: 4765: 4375: 4164: 4106: 4021: 3787: 3622:'s understanding and expertise, I've proposed a possible solution that satisfies both approaches and incorporates your work, and 3606: 3568: 3225: 3061: 3034: 2842: 2734: 2660: 1454: 1380: 1256: 1126: 1074: 1054: 924: 870: 3276:

almost back to square one and will have to manually add all the data and translate them. The current infobox does all this work.

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feasible. It would offset a lot of the "but it might not work" complaints that seem to perennially invade infobox TFDs.

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First, I don't understand why Germain railway vehicles get their own template... No other nation has their own template.

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above became so contentious when we have plenty of similar foreign-language substitution templates that work well. –

1436: 5254:("=" added). That is because we cannot have parameter names as input (without "="-sign, the infobox reads it being 4983:

a parameter in any enwiki template. And if you thing a bot can solve it: go ahead and organiseake that happen it. -

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Actually I've had an idea which might resolve the different approaches. Currently the German title for the infobox

1442: 110: 93: 3457: 506: 121: 4621:: I easily understand your choice to disengage. I'll describe why, IMO, it is this complicated and long-winded. 747: 559: 4725:

Infoboxes all wikis (enwiki, dewiki) can pull that same data from Wikidata. No translation or copying needed.

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in this template. Am I missing something? Are there actual parameters that do not have English equivalents in

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hybrid to the English infobox, handling the German coordinate formatting with ease and, most importantly,

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If we'd take that approach, the 100% complete replacement-table is required still, so we should continue.

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Unwatching - this is getting tedious. The same arguments over and over, with mutual misunderstanding. --

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Suggestion: Since the English parameter names are free to choose (today), try using the same name as in

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with French parameters because I want to be able to copy villages from the French wiki. Or a version of

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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had a good point (ease of iw-copy-pasting), but Bermicourt has never ever suggested any improvement of

1439: 65: 4861: 5367: 5331: 5169: 5081: 5009: 4923: 4873: 4852:

We translators have tended to focus on locos rather than coaches, but I've just added the infobox to

4815: 4605: 4494: 4443: 4425: 4131: 3964: 3632: 3589: 3493: 3444: 3327: 3292: 2982: 2806: 897: 810: 772: 765: 737: 692: 679: 3026:

THAT makes sense! Depending on where you are in the world, people spell color/colour differently. --

443: 5229: 4591: 4288: 4210: 4088: 4050: 3913: 3831: 1102: 510: 125: 4509:

That bot thing might be nice, whatever. I claim that the one and only template to be available is

3395: 4531:

to accept all parameters now in the German template, but with English names. (So: 1. Params like

4435: 3623: 3466: 3401: 3338: 3106: 3048: 2922: 2888: 2771:

I'm surprised that no-one's contacted me as the creator of this "worst template ever" (thank you

2749: 2700: 2676: 2635: 1274: 1017: 1006: 997:. It might be prudent, then, to make a wrapper/sandbox version to demonstrate that such a merger 965: 961:

Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion/Log/2015 March 8#Template:Infobox German railway vehicle

951: 885: 512: 126: 5004:(currently a redirect) to pick up de:Schienenfahrzeug before it gets substituted by the bot. -- 4838:

of course), but it is used to indicate that it is using German parameter names, nothing more. -

4915: 906:

I know each of you are really active in Templates. This was next on my list to convert to use

604: 592: 574: 46: 3802:

Dammit. Sorry we lost you. Thanks for the improvements so far. -23:57, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

3375:

parameters that require adjustment somewhere (when one cannot copy/paste the data blindly). -

1234:

and is in English, let's return to the discussion of whether or not to try and merge it with

5397: 5353: 5310: 5289: 5199: 5147: 5115: 5036: 4988: 4944: 4889: 4843: 4796: 4734: 4693: 4669: 4562: 4513:. This German one should not be used (unless one day until the bot comes along). So: I will 4473: 4407: 4270: 4189: 4073: 4032: 3939: 3865: 3757: 3713: 3662: 3546: 3380: 3256: 3189: 3139: 3093: 1495: 1288: 1228: 1199: 1030: 910: 508: 477: 123: 4463:

over the template(s). Nice if a bot can handle that, but if not: translate & transform

2969:@Andy Mabbett. Yes. Moreover, it's still supporting a lot of articles - nearly 500 I think. 916:

which is was brought it to my attention. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter. --

5363: 5327: 5165: 5139: 5135: 5077: 5005: 4972: 4968: 4919: 4869: 4811: 4649: 4642: 4618: 4601: 4490: 4452: 4439: 4421: 4417: 4368: 4198: 4157: 4150: 4127: 4122: 4005: 3995: 3960: 3780: 3705: 3653: 3641: 3628: 3599: 3585: 3561: 3556: 3502: 3489: 3440: 3432: 3344: 3323: 3315: 3288: 3218: 3054: 3027: 3004: 2978: 2945: 2914: 2856: 2835: 2817: 2802: 2772: 2727: 2653: 1249: 1119: 1067: 1047: 917: 863: 806: 769: 762: 733: 689: 676: 5024:

This section aims to work out the parameter translation, from de-infobox into en-infobox

4899: 3766:

It should be reorganized so that there are headings and subsections like most infoboxes.

5298:

Change the infobox to remove this defaulting: "when no Farbe1,2 input, show blank bar".

4615: 4584: 4316: 4284: 4206: 4142: 4114: 4084: 4046: 3956: 3909: 3827: 3303: 2647: 1113: 1095: 893: 383: 274: 4748:

All transcluding articles (306 as of today) are categorised under 'Schienenfahrzeug':

4645:

wants to be able to de-copy/en-paste an infobox, and enwiki should provide it showing.

3770:

literally every other template. You don't have English templates on the German wiki...

2861:

It was proposed in 2015 to switch some of the articles that use this template, to use

342: 324: 5410: 5233: 4708: 4704: 3307: 3015: 2794: 2643: 1270: 1167: 1023: 1002: 947: 901: 889: 577: 399: 366: 3130:

Future template documentation could have the translation list. "Drehzapfenabstand →

3775: 3311: 3011: 4824:

Thanks! So far, no /train examples met, all are locomotive. Note that the use of

4012:

at all. Nor did any de-copy/en-paste promotor here ever. Sure, complaining about

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Hopefully I can save you a bunch of time... see how similar this template is to

1649:- Note these three are different names for the same thing per the documentation 1639:- Note these three are different names for the same thing per the documentation 1629:- Note these three are different names for the same thing per the documentation 4853: 851:

The params should all be migrated to english. Happy to write a bot to do this.

597: 264: 258: 240: 4979:(not others) to find the right enwiki template and parameter. You can always 3463:

for an example of how this is done). An existing bot will then deal with it.

3010:

to... I mean do you really expect to be able to copy and paste material from

4911: 4394:(3500 P). I DO want these German parameters to be present/incorporated into 203: 5225:| above = {{{Baureihe}}} | abovestyle = background-color:#a00; color:#fff; 4652:

wants to have those de:parameters translated into English parameter names.

4279:

The bot does not have to "know" anything. Have you looked at the code for

4068:'. Not a single one. No one researched the issues in parameter mapping. - 4064:, not a single German parameter has been proposed for 'let's add this to 3840:

Once again: the translation is not the problem. By now, we all know that

3436: 801:

is the equivalent of "Prime mover" i.e. the make and model of engine and

1364:-- R to this infobox. Is used to indicate that parameters are in German. 386:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can visit the

4121:. I've already agreed most of the English parameter names suggested by 564: 287: 4105:

several times here. But to be honest with you, I haven't raised it on

3924:

Are there actual parameters that do not have English equivalents in...

1026:'s approach. I think I'm going to work on converting this over to use 746:

Thanks for the clarification. So which one would best translate into "

436: 3580:

To be fair I'd already deleted those comments earlier in response to

1166:

I am convinced it is really not a good idea, at least not right now.

1156:

ok so after spending a bit of time trying to merge the template with

5301:

In future copy/pastes: a job for the editor, with other adjustments.

4176:

I support this Z08 point: target is that we use enwiki templates. (

2919:

Is this template still used for importing from de.Knowledge (XXG)?

356: 5062:

Infobox German railway vehicle/Parameter translation (locomotives)

4914:(a covered wagon) and of course all the railbus articles like the 4468:

with, as it can be kept while not blocking this improvement imo. -

3343:

I object to your language "you are pushing ahead and destroying":

5326:, grateful you have done this. I'm not an expert on infoboxes! -- 5262:(blank input but still), so the two default values are not used. 4664:

can give you solace into what it is about. Hope this clarified. -

5228:

It appears to be from the dewiki, being the home colors for DR (

4521:

accept German parameters into the main template. I will work on

4898:

Other non-loco articles that already use the template include:

4016:-- everybody can and does. But what about the more complicated 3959:. Yes, I think this is very much what DePiep and I are saying. 3922:

I made them up, some funny German words. You got to the point:

3644:, you once used rude language, and you did edit revert that by 3207:

these are all great points!!! I will go through and compare to

704:

I took the meanings from the explanation at de.wiki as follows:

513: 471: 431: 135: 127: 15: 3774:

I am happy to convert the template to english and use my bot

1465:

Template:Infobox German railway vehicle/list of transclusions

1036:

and in the process see if I can't just make it a wrapper for

4936: 382:, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to 5076:

vehicle ("year(s) of manufacture", "manufacturer", etc.) --

4688:

We could use Wikidata, especially Properties. Later more. -

3818:

I was going to suggest using an approach like that used at

1046:. If I can easily do that then the TFD should be simple. -- 390:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the 5392:

here on enwiki, the default livery colours are b/w now. -

4357:. Etc. etc. And again, I am NOT talking about merging to 3268:

This is not really a dialogue; you are pushing ahead and

5273:

Add DR-colors to their infoboxes (set Farbe1=, Farbe2=)

4661: 4722:

It has Property P2978 (Wheel arrangement) value 2-8-2.

3999: 3848:-- easy. The point is: what if that de:parameter-point 3652:

the de-copy/en-paste option! Now, please consider that

3273:

with a positive idea but, in the process, throwing away

2624:- Note this param is only used as the image caption.... 1451: 1445: 1433: 1430: 1424: 1404: 1398: 1386: 1383: 1377: 1341: 1335: 1323: 1320: 1314: 805:

is the equivalent of "Engine type". Hope that helps. --

630:

Template:Infobox German railway vehicle#Diesel traction

3517:. Possibly this requires changes in this template, in 2972:

AFAICS this template is a lot more comprehensive than

1170:

for the record, I initiated the discussion on merging

4543:, 2. Editors like you do copy/paste from dewiki into 1482:

de:Spezial:Linkliste/Vorlage:Infobox_Schienenfahrzeug

4638:

Complicated: this topic has three angles (my take):

3779:

the choice, I won't take part in implementing it. --

1467:(306×Article, 306×Talk) 00:23, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 838:

Why are all the parameters still in German? I found

286:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 202:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3763:

as a base. This was my initial goal and it is done.

613: 603: 591: 583: 570: 558: 553: 544: 3555:Well I was trying to improve the template. But if 5000:extra parameters at will. However, we then need 854:Once in English, merge the existing params with 4935:For now, please take a look at what happens at 1066:This is literally the worst template ever... -- 152:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s 5238:Yesterday, I have edited the template to have 4939:. That is where the actual work now happens. - 5343:without "="-sign, the infobox reads it being 4744:Category listings of Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 3648:, greatly. I compliment that. Also: by now I 521:This page has archives. Sections older than 8: 4766:Category:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug/locomotive 3987:Enough. Taken hostage by a de:wiki template? 2955:and subsequent template amendments, I think 5178:It's not a template-technique problem. The 3753:This template needs to be converted to use 3424:Sorry, I'm trying to avoid walls of text. ☺ 831:So this template has a number of issues... 5265:How to proceed? I think the enwiki should 5045: 4110:here first. But I'm open to suggestions... 1537: 550: 319: 235: 167: 5222:has the above-colors set with a default: 5094:"loc" means param should be available in 4504:consistent (...) in their parameter names 3243:{{{Hersteller}}} → constructor (builder?) 1248:Any objections to this plan of attack? -- 862:Would love to hear some input on this. -- 858:so that the two templates can become one. 5051:en: Parameter definition and translation 1092:the Rail transport in Germany task force 750:"? That would be "Motortyp? See sample 4775:Category:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug/train 3513:, is a complete & correct, working 3371:Also, that list must be cused to check 2952: 321: 237: 169: 5432:Template-Class rail transport articles 5344: 5342: 5255: 5243: 5239: 5107: 4778: 4769: 4756: 4547:, 3. the bot changes infoboxname into 4540: 4532: 4503: 4061: 4020:? Why did you not propose anything at 4017: 4013: 3923: 3875: 3849: 3845: 3841: 3657:(100%). Please, you both, stay here. - 3538: 713:Motortyp = Typenbezeichnung des Motors 541: 531:when more than 3 sections are present. 5437:NA-importance rail transport articles 1473:+talkpages (not just in the infobox). 688:The keys here are "type" and "-typ". 376:This template is within the scope of 280:This template is within the scope of 216:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Infoboxes 196:This template is within the scope of 141: 139: 7: 4937:#Parameter translation (locomotives) 3248:{{{Baujahre}}} → construction years 2801:further degradation, even better. -- 609:8.5 in × 10 in (215.9 mm × 254.0 mm) 5020:Parameter translation (locomotives) 4263:that the bot should translate into? 4253:What are the English parameters in 4024:at all? Why not, Bermicourt, ever? 3852:does not exist in en-wiki template 2793:does this pretty well. And I think 1990:{{{inner_carrying_wheel_diameter}}} 1981:{{{outer_carrying_wheel_diameter}}} 1542:list of parameter name translations 1478:de:Vorlage:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 987:That reads like the discussion for 300:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Germany 158:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 5220:{{Infobox German railway vehicle}} 3856:? (to complicate: and not even in 3488:Cool, even better. Thanks Andy. -- 3314:), Mecklenburg in mustard yellow ( 451: 442:This template was considered for 408:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Trains 14: 5002:Template:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 4828:is trivial (it Redirects to this 4755:(0) -- parent category, also for 4753:Category:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 4119:Template:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 3505:, that is the easy part. What we 3429:Template:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 1350:-- enwiki, lang:German parameters 525:may be automatically archived by 45:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 5383: 5275: 4459:if we can keep it, but it shall 4283:? It is very straightforward. – 4107:Template talk:Infobox locomotive 4101:. I've proposed improvements to 4022:Template talk:Infobox locomotive 3744: 3322:and covers other nations too. ☺ 3251:Suggested better translations. - 2652:how do these look to you all? -- 1810:{{{service_weight_with_tender}}} 1725:{{{AchsabstandDerFahrgestelle}}} 1471:Recent Changes in these articles 1186: 847:I propose a couple of things... 476: 435: 355: 341: 323: 267: 257: 239: 189: 171: 140: 109: 40:Click here to start a new topic. 5417:Template-Class Germany articles 2885:. How does that sound, to you? 2797:may be able to assist here too. 1484:(German, transclusions: 4350 P) 5422:NA-importance Germany articles 5284:for transclusions as of now. - 4856:which is displaying nicely. ☺ 4833:Infobox German railway vehicle 4517:depend on the Bot action, and 4353:will become the English param 2224:{{{evaporative_heating_area}}} 1977:{{{AussenLaufraddurchmesser}}} 1968:{{{HintenLaufraddurchmesser}}} 1891:{{{tractive_effort_starting}}} 1309:Infobox German railway vehicle 219:Template:WikiProject Infoboxes 25:Infobox German railway vehicle 1: 4545:{{Infobox Schienenfahrrzeug}} 1999:{{{carrying_wheel_diameter}}} 1986:{{{InnenLaufraddurchmesser}}} 1972:{{{trailing_wheel_diameter}}} 1959:{{{VorneLaufraddurchmesser}}} 1195:Convert this template to use 396:WikiProject Trains to do list 294:and see a list of open tasks. 210:and see a list of open tasks. 37:Put new text under old text. 5442:All WikiProject Trains pages 5427:WikiProject Germany articles 5402:21:26, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 5372:12:16, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 5358:14:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 5336:12:00, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 5315:10:44, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 5305:Note: step 1 does no harm. - 5294:11:12, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 5120:20:49, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 5086:20:21, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 5041:19:40, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 5014:19:29, 19 January 2017 (UTC) 4993:09:33, 18 January 2017 (UTC) 4949:20:43, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4928:19:01, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4894:18:46, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4878:18:00, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4848:15:54, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4826:{{Infobox Schienenfahrzeug}} 4820:08:48, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4801:23:47, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4739:18:01, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4698:23:36, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4674:22:36, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4610:21:25, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4596:20:30, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4567:18:44, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4499:18:24, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4478:16:11, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4448:10:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4430:08:55, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4412:23:58, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4383:23:41, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4293:01:03, 15 January 2017 (UTC) 4275:23:11, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4215:22:58, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4194:21:45, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4172:19:26, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4136:08:23, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4126:this one when it's ready. -- 4093:05:24, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4078:01:43, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4055:01:26, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 4037:01:21, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 3969:12:22, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 3944:00:38, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 3918:00:31, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 3870:00:24, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 3836:00:08, 14 January 2017 (UTC) 3795:22:45, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3718:22:21, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3667:22:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3637:21:50, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3614:20:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3594:20:00, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3576:17:22, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3551:14:19, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3498:13:07, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3484:12:29, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3449:12:21, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3419:11:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3385:09:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3332:09:41, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3297:09:30, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3261:09:34, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3233:01:23, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3194:01:01, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3144:00:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3124:11:50, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3098:00:38, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 3069:21:37, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 3042:21:37, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2987:20:54, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2959:should be "prime mover" and 2940:20:42, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2906:20:42, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2850:20:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2811:20:16, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2767:20:11, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2742:19:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2694:19:37, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2668:19:31, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2463:{{{Geschwindigkeitsmesser}}} 2220:{{{Verdampfungsheizfläche}}} 2197:{{{radiative_heating_area}}} 2116:{{{cogwheel_piston_stroke}}} 2107:{{{cogwheel_cylinder_bore}}} 2103:{{{ZR-Zylinderdurchmesser}}} 1963:{{{leading_wheel_diameter}}} 1954:{{{driving_wheel_diameter}}} 1945:{{{coupled_wheel_diameter}}} 1512:Template:Infobox locomotive 1500:01:55, 13 January 2017 (UTC) 1293:08:29, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 1279:02:27, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 1264:00:24, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 1134:00:16, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 1118:just did that. Thank you. -- 1107:00:02, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 1082:23:03, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 1062:22:15, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 1011:12:31, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 983:10:33, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 956:02:31, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 932:01:02, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 878:01:01, 11 January 2017 (UTC) 768:16:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC) 728:is the model, not type, and 303:Template:WikiProject Germany 4103:Template:Infobox locomotive 3998:just has left the building 2974:Template:Infobox Locomotive 2778:Template:Infobox locomotive 2085:{{{HDZylinderdurchmesser}}} 2076:{{{NDZylinderdurchmesser}}} 1833:{{{Höchstgeschwindigkeit}}} 1756:{{{wheelbase_with_tender}}} 1618:{{{AAR_wheel_arrangement}}} 1614:{{{AAR_wheel_arrangement}}} 1224:Once the template is using 856:Template:Infobox locomotive 815:20:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC) 776:19:58, 22 August 2012 (UTC) 752:Template:Infobox locomotive 742:14:58, 22 August 2012 (UTC) 696:14:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC) 683:01:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC) 448:Template:Infobox locomotive 411:Template:WikiProject Trains 5458: 5258:???). However, this means 4866:de:Kategorie:Schlepptender 4858:de:Kategorie:Reisezugwagen 4398:. (complication: could be 3874:I'm confused. I don't see 3079:data they are inputting?). 2787:without losing information 2548:{{{low_platform_section}}} 2449:{{{anti_slip_protection}}} 2292:{{{Leistungsübertragung}}} 2193:{{{Strahlungsheizfläche}}} 1941:{{{Kuppelraddurchmesser}}} 1909:{{{braking_deceleration}}} 1851:{{{InstallierteLeistung}}} 1806:{{{DienstmasseMitTender}}} 1675:{{{length_over_couplers}}} 1480:(German source template); 1212:for example, you will use 5204:20:37, 9 March 2017 (UTC) 5174:19:37, 9 March 2017 (UTC) 5152:00:54, 9 March 2017 (UTC) 3515:parameter translation set 3306:), Saxon locos in green ( 2377:{{{running_step_switch}}} 2179:{{{heating_tube_length}}} 2152:{{{boiler_max_pressure}}} 2067:{{{Zylinderdurchmesser}}} 2062:{{{number_of_cylinders}}} 1950:{{{Treibraddurchmesser}}} 1914:{{{Leistungskennziffer}}} 1873:{{{power_output_1_hour}}} 1684:{{{length_over_buffers}}} 549: 336: 252: 184: 166: 75:Be welcoming to newcomers 5160:I'm no template expert, 4862:de: Kategorie:Güterwagen 4770:|boxtype=loc, locomotive 4345:will become the English 4018:|KropsenHugerMitTräusen= 3876:|KropsenHugerMitTräusen= 3850:|KropsenHugerMitTräusen= 3088:import the data :-) ). - 2963:should be "engine type". 2373:{{{Fahrstufenschalter}}} 2364:{{{Übersetzungsstufen}}} 2323:{{{traction_batteries}}} 2296:{{{power_transmission}}} 1995:{{{Laufraddurchmesser}}} 1842:{{{IndizierteLeistung}}} 1359:Infobox Schienenfahrzeug 748:prime mover (locomotive) 4908:LHB prototype carriages 4806:Cool. Good first step, 3824:Template:Internetquelle 3398:. Please adhere to it. 2413:{{{locomotive_brakes}}} 2346:{{{AnzahlFahrmotoren}}} 2341:{{{collection_method}}} 2305:{{{transmission_type}}} 2238:{{{DienstmasseTender}}} 2206:{{{tube_heating_area}}} 2125:{{{cylinder_pressure}}} 2035:{{{braking_cogwheels}}} 2026:{{{driving_cogwheels}}} 2022:{{{Antriebszahnräder}}} 1882:{{{power_output_cont}}} 1860:{{{Traktionsleistung}}} 1752:{{{RadstandMitTender}}} 1747:{{{overall_wheelbase}}} 1716:{{{Drehzapfenabstand}}} 1671:{{{LängeÜberKupplung}}} 1609:{{{wheel_arrangement}}} 1605:{{{Wheel arrangement}}} 1520:Template:Infobox train 1463:List of transclusions: 653:Number of cylinders etc 643:Make and model of motor 414:rail transport articles 5096:{{Infobox locomotive}} 5026:{{Infobox locomotive}} 4789:{{Infobox locomotive}} 4635:repetition repetition. 4537:{{Infobox locomotive}} 4511:{{Infobox locomotive}} 4396:{{infobox locomotive}} 4392:{{infobox locomotive}} 4178:{{Infobox locomotive}} 4066:{{Infobox locomotive}} 4010:{{Infobox locomitive}} 3928:{{Infobox locomotive}} 3884:{{Infobox locomotive}} 3854:{{Infobox locomitive}} 3844:should be edited into 3511:first step from now on 3347:is writing kindly and 3310:), Prussian in black ( 3085:{{Infobox locomotive}} 2544:{{{Niederfluranteil}}} 2440:{{{train_protection}}} 2431:{{{continuous_brake}}} 2427:{{{Beharrungsbremse}}} 2337:{{{Stromübertragung}}} 2215:{{{superheater_area}}} 2211:{{{Überhitzerfläche}}} 2166:{{{AnzahlRauchrohre}}} 2089:{{{hp_cylinder_bore}}} 2080:{{{lp_cylinder_bore}}} 1905:{{{Bremsverzögerung}}} 1824:{{{Radsatzfahrmasse}}} 1647:{{{axle_arrangement}}} 1637:{{{axle_arrangement}}} 1627:{{{axle_arrangement}}} 1587:{{{Indienststellung}}} 1175:infobox former country 992:infobox former country 657:Correct translations: 587:9,072 cu in (148.66 L) 528:Lowercase sigmabot III 70:avoid personal attacks 5214:Baureihe colors issue 4281:Template:Infobox Burg 4203:Template:Infobox Burg 3820:Template:Infobox Burg 3509:need, and we need it 2791:Template:Infobox Berg 2521:{{{standing_places}}} 2400:{{{Feststellbremse}}} 2395:{{{auxiliary_brake}}} 2350:{{{traction_motors}}} 2332:{{{electric_system}}} 2157:{{{AnzahlHeizrohre}}} 1869:{{{Stundenleistung}}} 1864:{{{tractive_effort}}} 1855:{{{installed_power}}} 1846:{{{indicated_power}}} 1819:{{{adhesive_weight}}} 1738:{{{fixed_wheelbase}}} 1734:{{{Fester Radstand}}} 1729:{{{bogie_wheelbase}}} 1680:{{{LängeÜberPuffer}}} 1657:{{{locomotive_type}}} 1591:{{{entered_service}}} 199:WikiProject Infoboxes 103:Auto-archiving period 5104:{{Schienenfahrzeug}} 4004:I got the idea that 3842:|HauptDüsenFlupgler= 3537:(first example: add 2953:the discussion above 2562:{{{Besonderheiten}}} 2251:{{{water_capacity}}} 2202:{{{Rohrheizfläche}}} 2058:{{{Zylinderanzahl}}} 2031:{{{Bremszahnräder}}} 2008:{{{wheel_diameter}}} 2004:{{{Raddurchmesser}}} 1896:{{{Beschleunigung}}} 1887:{{{Anfahrzugkraft}}} 1801:{{{service_weight}}} 1792:{{{working_weight}}} 1743:{{{Gesamtradstand}}} 632:Wrong translations: 454:. The result of the 5230:Deutsche Reichsbahn 4967:On second thought, 4349:, the German param 3176:{{{minimum_curve}}} 2476:{{{train_control}}} 2458:{{{train_heating}}} 2404:{{{parking_brake}}} 2368:{{{running_steps}}} 2314:{{{tank_capacity}}} 2242:{{{tender_weight}}} 2175:{{{Heizrohrlänge}}} 2161:{{{heating_tubes}}} 2143:{{{boiler_length}}} 2121:{{{Zylinderdruck}}} 2098:{{{piston_stroke}}} 2071:{{{cylinder_bore}}} 2049:{{{Steuerungsart}}} 2044:{{{cogwheel_size}}} 2013:{{{Zahnradsystem}}} 1878:{{{Dauerleistung}}} 1815:{{{Reibungsmasse}}} 1765:{{{minimum_curve}}} 1269:Sounds good to me. 672:Correct translation 665:Correct translation 636:Motor make/model 283:WikiProject Germany 4552:Infobox locomotive 4526:Infobox locomotive 4436:Template:Literatur 4362:Infobox locomotive 4343:{{{Nummerierung}}} 4327:Infobox settlement 4258:Infobox locomotive 3522:Infobox locomotive 3212:Infobox locomotive 3180:{{{minimumcurve}}} 3160:Infobox locomotive 2880:Infobox locomotive 2828:Infobox locomotive 2710:Infobox settlement 2539:{{{floor_height}}} 2535:{{{Fußbodenhöhe}}} 2490:{{{Kupplungstyp}}} 2436:{{{Zugsicherung}}} 2422:{{{train_brakes}}} 2391:{{{Zusatzbremse}}} 2359:{{{transmission}}} 2319:{{{Fahrbatterie}}} 2283:{{{Nenndrehzahl}}} 2229:{{{Tenderbauart}}} 2112:{{{ZR-Kolbenhub}}} 2040:{{{GrößeZahnrad}}} 1900:{{{acceleration}}} 1783:{{{total_weight}}} 1774:{{{empty_weight}}} 1596:{{{Ausmusterung}}} 1551:{{{Nummerierung}}} 1372:Infobox locomotive 1239:infobox locomotive 1161:infobox locomotive 1086:Have you informed 1041:infobox locomotive 941:infobox locomotive 792:Infobox locomotive 650:Wrong translation! 640:Wrong translation! 538:Wrong translations 379:WikiProject Trains 222:Infoboxes articles 154:content assessment 81:dispute resolution 42: 5234:de:DR-Baureihe 01 5100:{{Infobox train}} 5071: 5070: 4916:Esslingen railbus 4716: 4709:de:DR-Baureihe 39 4535:will be added to 4402:; we can handle)- 4400:{{infobox train}} 4377:What I been doing 4247:I'm not Z08, but 4201:: If you look at 4182:{{Infobox train}} 4166:What I been doing 4062:|Farbe1= |Farbe2= 3932:{{Infobox train}} 3880:{{Infobox train}} 3858:{{Infobox train}} 3789:What I been doing 3608:What I been doing 3570:What I been doing 3342: 3265: 3227:What I been doing 3150:Arbitrary break 2 3132:{{{pivot_pitch}}} 3063:What I been doing 3036:What I been doing 2844:What I been doing 2736:What I been doing 2662:What I been doing 2630: 2629: 2586:{{{series_name}}} 2557:{{{coach_class}}} 2503:{{{max_incline}}} 2481:{{{Betriebsart}}} 2445:{{{Gleitschutz}}} 2328:{{{Stromsystem}}} 2301:{{{Getriebetyp}}} 2287:{{{nominal_rpm}}} 2278:{{{engine_type}}} 2274:{{{Motorbauart}}} 2170:{{{smoke_tubes}}} 2148:{{{Kesseldruck}}} 2139:{{{Kessellänge}}} 2017:{{{rack_system}}} 1918:{{{power_index}}} 1797:{{{Dienstmasse}}} 1779:{{{Gesamtmasse}}} 1720:{{{pivot_pitch}}} 1666:{{{track_gauge}}} 1523: 1515: 1258:What I been doing 1128:What I been doing 1076:What I been doing 1056:What I been doing 926:What I been doing 872:What I been doing 732:is the design. -- 671: 664: 649: 639: 627: 626: 623: 622: 535: 534: 500: 499: 468: 467: 430: 429: 426: 425: 422: 421: 374: 373: 318: 317: 314: 313: 234: 233: 230: 229: 134: 133: 61:Assume good faith 38: 5449: 5391: 5387: 5386: 5346: 5283: 5279: 5278: 5257: 5245: 5241: 5221: 5109: 5105: 5101: 5097: 5066: 5060: 5046: 5027: 4837: 4831: 4827: 4790: 4780: 4771: 4758: 4714: 4705:en:Prussian P 10 4587: 4556: 4550: 4546: 4542: 4538: 4534: 4530: 4524: 4512: 4401: 4397: 4393: 4378: 4371: 4366: 4360: 4356: 4352: 4348: 4344: 4340: 4331: 4325: 4320: 4262: 4256: 4183: 4179: 4167: 4160: 4154: 4067: 4063: 4019: 4015: 4011: 3933: 3929: 3885: 3881: 3877: 3859: 3855: 3851: 3847: 3843: 3790: 3783: 3762: 3756: 3752: 3748: 3747: 3609: 3602: 3571: 3564: 3540: 3536: 3530: 3526: 3520: 3482: 3473: 3469: 3462: 3458:Infobox Berg/doc 3456: 3417: 3408: 3404: 3364: 3358: 3336: 3263: 3228: 3221: 3216: 3210: 3206: 3181: 3177: 3172: 3171:{{{Halbmesser}}} 3164: 3158: 3133: 3122: 3113: 3109: 3086: 3064: 3057: 3052: 3037: 3030: 3025: 3021: 3016:en:Angela Merkel 3012:de:Angela Merkel 3008: 2938: 2929: 2925: 2918: 2904: 2895: 2891: 2884: 2878: 2870: 2864: 2860: 2845: 2838: 2832: 2826: 2821: 2765: 2756: 2752: 2737: 2730: 2724: 2718: 2714: 2708: 2704: 2692: 2683: 2679: 2663: 2656: 2651: 2623: 2619: 2614: 2610: 2605: 2601: 2596: 2592: 2587: 2583: 2576: 2572: 2567: 2563: 2558: 2554: 2549: 2545: 2540: 2536: 2531: 2527: 2522: 2518: 2517:{{{Stehplätze}}} 2513: 2509: 2508:{{{Sitzplätze}}} 2504: 2500: 2495: 2491: 2486: 2482: 2477: 2473: 2468: 2467:{{{tachometer}}} 2464: 2459: 2455: 2454:{{{Zugheizung}}} 2450: 2446: 2441: 2437: 2432: 2428: 2423: 2419: 2414: 2410: 2405: 2401: 2396: 2392: 2387: 2383: 2378: 2374: 2369: 2365: 2360: 2356: 2351: 2347: 2342: 2338: 2333: 2329: 2324: 2320: 2315: 2311: 2310:{{{Tankinhalt}}} 2306: 2302: 2297: 2293: 2288: 2284: 2279: 2275: 2270: 2269:{{{motor_type}}} 2266: 2265:{{{Motorentyp}}} 2261: 2257: 2256:{{{Brennstoff}}} 2252: 2248: 2243: 2239: 2234: 2230: 2225: 2221: 2216: 2212: 2207: 2203: 2198: 2194: 2189: 2188:{{{grate_area}}} 2185: 2184:{{{Rostfläche}}} 2180: 2176: 2171: 2167: 2162: 2158: 2153: 2149: 2144: 2140: 2135: 2131: 2126: 2122: 2117: 2113: 2108: 2104: 2099: 2095: 2090: 2086: 2081: 2077: 2072: 2068: 2063: 2059: 2054: 2053:{{{valve_gear}}} 2050: 2045: 2041: 2036: 2032: 2027: 2023: 2018: 2014: 2009: 2005: 2000: 1996: 1991: 1987: 1982: 1978: 1973: 1969: 1964: 1960: 1955: 1951: 1946: 1942: 1937: 1933: 1928: 1924: 1923:{{{Reichweite}}} 1919: 1915: 1910: 1906: 1901: 1897: 1892: 1888: 1883: 1879: 1874: 1870: 1865: 1861: 1856: 1852: 1847: 1843: 1838: 1834: 1829: 1825: 1820: 1816: 1811: 1807: 1802: 1798: 1793: 1789: 1784: 1780: 1775: 1771: 1766: 1762: 1761:{{{Halbmesser}}} 1757: 1753: 1748: 1744: 1739: 1735: 1730: 1726: 1721: 1717: 1712: 1708: 1703: 1699: 1694: 1690: 1685: 1681: 1676: 1672: 1667: 1663: 1658: 1654: 1648: 1644: 1638: 1634: 1628: 1624: 1623:{{{Achsformel}}} 1619: 1615: 1610: 1606: 1601: 1597: 1592: 1588: 1583: 1579: 1574: 1570: 1569:{{{Hersteller}}} 1565: 1561: 1556: 1552: 1538: 1521: 1513: 1459: 1458: 1412: 1411: 1363: 1357: 1349: 1348: 1259: 1252: 1243: 1237: 1233: 1227: 1215: 1211: 1210:{{{ Abbildung}}} 1204: 1198: 1194: 1190: 1189: 1179: 1173: 1165: 1159: 1129: 1122: 1117: 1098: 1077: 1070: 1057: 1050: 1045: 1039: 1035: 1029: 1021: 996: 990: 981: 972: 968: 945: 939: 927: 920: 915: 909: 905: 873: 866: 796: 790: 669: 662: 661:Motor make/model 647: 637: 551: 542: 530: 514: 491: 490: 480: 472: 453: 439: 432: 416: 415: 412: 409: 406: 359: 350: 349: 345: 338: 337: 327: 320: 308: 307: 306:Germany articles 304: 301: 298: 277: 272: 271: 270: 261: 254: 253: 243: 236: 224: 223: 220: 217: 214: 193: 186: 185: 175: 168: 145: 144: 143: 136: 128: 114: 113: 104: 16: 5457: 5456: 5452: 5451: 5450: 5448: 5447: 5446: 5407: 5406: 5384: 5382: 5276: 5274: 5226: 5219: 5216: 5103: 5099: 5095: 5072: 5064: 5058: 5052: 5025: 5022: 4835: 4829: 4825: 4788: 4746: 4686: 4585: 4554: 4548: 4544: 4536: 4528: 4522: 4510: 4399: 4395: 4391: 4380: 4376: 4369: 4364: 4358: 4354: 4350: 4346: 4342: 4334: 4329: 4323: 4314: 4260: 4254: 4181: 4177: 4169: 4165: 4158: 4140: 4065: 4009: 3989: 3931: 3927: 3883: 3879: 3857: 3853: 3792: 3788: 3781: 3760: 3754: 3745: 3743: 3611: 3607: 3600: 3573: 3569: 3562: 3534: 3528: 3524: 3518: 3471: 3465: 3464: 3460: 3454: 3406: 3400: 3399: 3362: 3356: 3316:Mecklenburg T 3 3285: 3282: 3274: 3271: 3230: 3226: 3219: 3214: 3208: 3200: 3179: 3175: 3170: 3162: 3156: 3152: 3131: 3111: 3105: 3104: 3084: 3066: 3062: 3055: 3046: 3039: 3035: 3028: 3023: 3019: 3002: 2927: 2921: 2920: 2912: 2893: 2887: 2886: 2882: 2876: 2868: 2862: 2854: 2847: 2843: 2836: 2830: 2824: 2815: 2789:. From memory, 2754: 2748: 2747: 2739: 2735: 2728: 2722: 2716: 2712: 2706: 2698: 2681: 2675: 2674: 2665: 2661: 2654: 2633: 2631: 2621: 2617: 2612: 2609:{{{Abbildung}}} 2608: 2603: 2599: 2594: 2590: 2585: 2581: 2574: 2571:{{{Anmerkung}}} 2570: 2565: 2561: 2556: 2552: 2547: 2543: 2538: 2534: 2529: 2525: 2520: 2516: 2511: 2507: 2502: 2498: 2493: 2489: 2484: 2480: 2475: 2472:{{{Steuerung}}} 2471: 2466: 2462: 2457: 2453: 2448: 2444: 2439: 2435: 2430: 2426: 2421: 2418:{{{Zugbremse}}} 2417: 2412: 2409:{{{Lokbremse}}} 2408: 2403: 2399: 2394: 2390: 2385: 2381: 2376: 2372: 2367: 2363: 2358: 2354: 2349: 2345: 2340: 2336: 2331: 2327: 2322: 2318: 2313: 2309: 2304: 2300: 2295: 2291: 2286: 2282: 2277: 2273: 2268: 2264: 2259: 2255: 2250: 2246: 2241: 2237: 2232: 2228: 2223: 2219: 2214: 2210: 2205: 2201: 2196: 2192: 2187: 2183: 2178: 2174: 2169: 2165: 2160: 2156: 2151: 2147: 2142: 2138: 2133: 2129: 2124: 2120: 2115: 2111: 2106: 2102: 2097: 2094:{{{Kolbenhub}}} 2093: 2088: 2084: 2079: 2075: 2070: 2066: 2061: 2057: 2052: 2048: 2043: 2039: 2034: 2030: 2025: 2021: 2016: 2012: 2007: 2003: 1998: 1994: 1989: 1985: 1980: 1976: 1971: 1967: 1962: 1958: 1953: 1949: 1944: 1940: 1935: 1932:{{{Kapazität}}} 1931: 1926: 1922: 1917: 1913: 1908: 1904: 1899: 1895: 1890: 1886: 1881: 1877: 1872: 1868: 1863: 1859: 1854: 1850: 1845: 1841: 1837:{{{top_speed}}} 1836: 1832: 1828:{{{axle_load}}} 1827: 1823: 1818: 1814: 1809: 1805: 1800: 1796: 1791: 1788:{{{Nutzmasse}}} 1787: 1782: 1778: 1773: 1770:{{{Leermasse}}} 1769: 1764: 1760: 1755: 1751: 1746: 1742: 1737: 1733: 1728: 1724: 1719: 1715: 1710: 1706: 1701: 1697: 1692: 1688: 1683: 1679: 1674: 1670: 1665: 1662:{{{Spurweite}}} 1661: 1656: 1652: 1646: 1643:{{{Achsfolge}}} 1642: 1636: 1632: 1626: 1622: 1617: 1613: 1608: 1604: 1599: 1595: 1590: 1586: 1581: 1577: 1572: 1568: 1563: 1559: 1554: 1550: 1543: 1531: 1529:Arbitrary break 1422: 1416: 1375: 1369: 1361: 1355: 1312: 1306: 1303: 1261: 1257: 1250: 1241: 1235: 1231: 1225: 1213: 1209: 1202: 1196: 1187: 1185: 1177: 1171: 1163: 1157: 1131: 1127: 1120: 1111: 1096: 1079: 1075: 1068: 1059: 1055: 1048: 1043: 1037: 1033: 1027: 1015: 994: 988: 970: 964: 963: 943: 937: 929: 925: 918: 913: 907: 898:John of Reading 883: 875: 871: 864: 829: 827:Multiple issues 797:uses the term, 794: 788: 787:Looking at how 540: 526: 515: 509: 485: 413: 410: 407: 404: 403: 375: 361: 360: 305: 302: 299: 296: 295: 273: 268: 266: 221: 218: 215: 212: 211: 130: 129: 124: 101: 87: 86: 56: 12: 11: 5: 5455: 5453: 5445: 5444: 5439: 5434: 5429: 5424: 5419: 5409: 5408: 5405: 5404: 5380: 5379: 5378: 5377: 5376: 5375: 5374: 5303: 5302: 5299: 5296: 5224: 5215: 5212: 5211: 5210: 5209: 5208: 5207: 5206: 5192: 5188: 5155: 5154: 5130: 5129: 5125: 5124: 5123: 5122: 5089: 5088: 5069: 5068: 5054: 5053: 5049: 5044: 5021: 5018: 5017: 5016: 4996: 4995: 4981:propose to add 4964: 4963: 4962: 4961: 4960: 4959: 4958: 4957: 4956: 4955: 4954: 4953: 4952: 4951: 4933: 4786: 4784: 4783: 4782: 4781: 4779:|boxtype=train 4772: 4760: 4759: 4745: 4742: 4720: 4719: 4713:Prussian P 10 4711:, in Wikidata 4685: 4682: 4681: 4680: 4679: 4678: 4677: 4676: 4662:#current works 4658: 4657: 4656: 4653: 4646: 4636: 4627: 4626: 4625: 4624: 4623: 4622: 4580: 4579: 4578: 4577: 4576: 4575: 4574: 4573: 4572: 4571: 4570: 4569: 4507: 4432: 4374: 4355:{{{quantity}}} 4312: 4311: 4310: 4309: 4308: 4307: 4306: 4305: 4304: 4303: 4302: 4301: 4300: 4299: 4298: 4297: 4296: 4295: 4230: 4229: 4228: 4227: 4226: 4225: 4224: 4223: 4222: 4221: 4220: 4219: 4218: 4217: 4163: 4111: 4043: 3988: 3985: 3984: 3983: 3982: 3981: 3980: 3979: 3978: 3977: 3976: 3975: 3974: 3973: 3972: 3971: 3953: 3896: 3895: 3894: 3893: 3892: 3891: 3890: 3889: 3888: 3887: 3811: 3810: 3809: 3808: 3807: 3806: 3786: 3772: 3771: 3767: 3764: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3731: 3730: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3726: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3722: 3721: 3720: 3686: 3685: 3684: 3683: 3682: 3681: 3680: 3679: 3678: 3677: 3676: 3675: 3674: 3673: 3672: 3671: 3670: 3669: 3605: 3584:'s objection. 3567: 3425: 3392: 3391: 3390: 3389: 3388: 3387: 3369: 3366: 3353: 3304:Bavarian BB II 3299: 3283: 3280: 3277: 3272: 3269: 3266: 3245: 3244: 3240: 3239: 3238: 3237: 3236: 3235: 3224: 3182: 3167: 3166: 3151: 3148: 3147: 3146: 3128: 3127: 3126: 3080: 3060: 3033: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2995: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2970: 2967: 2964: 2949: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2841: 2798: 2782: 2733: 2720:Infobox person 2659: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2615: 2606: 2597: 2588: 2582:{{{Baureihe}}} 2578: 2577: 2568: 2566:{{{features}}} 2559: 2550: 2541: 2532: 2523: 2514: 2505: 2496: 2494:{{{couplers}}} 2487: 2478: 2469: 2460: 2451: 2442: 2433: 2424: 2415: 2406: 2397: 2388: 2379: 2370: 2361: 2352: 2343: 2334: 2325: 2316: 2307: 2298: 2289: 2280: 2271: 2262: 2253: 2244: 2235: 2226: 2217: 2208: 2199: 2190: 2181: 2172: 2163: 2154: 2145: 2136: 2127: 2118: 2109: 2100: 2091: 2082: 2073: 2064: 2055: 2046: 2037: 2028: 2019: 2010: 2001: 1992: 1983: 1974: 1965: 1956: 1947: 1938: 1936:{{{capacity}}} 1929: 1920: 1911: 1902: 1893: 1884: 1875: 1866: 1857: 1848: 1839: 1830: 1821: 1812: 1803: 1794: 1785: 1776: 1767: 1758: 1749: 1740: 1731: 1722: 1713: 1704: 1695: 1686: 1677: 1668: 1659: 1650: 1640: 1630: 1620: 1611: 1602: 1593: 1584: 1578:{{{Baujahre}}} 1575: 1573:{{{quantity}}} 1566: 1564:{{{quantity}}} 1557: 1545: 1544: 1541: 1536: 1530: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1517: 1509: 1505: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1486: 1485: 1474: 1468: 1461: 1414: 1366: 1365: 1352: 1351: 1302: 1299: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1255: 1246: 1245: 1222: 1221: 1220: 1206: 1151: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1143: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1125: 1073: 1053: 923: 869: 860: 859: 852: 845: 844: 836: 828: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 818: 817: 760: 759: 758: 757: 756: 755: 720: 719: 718: 717: 714: 708: 707: 706: 705: 699: 698: 674: 673: 666: 655: 654: 651: 644: 641: 625: 624: 621: 620: 615: 611: 610: 607: 601: 600: 595: 589: 588: 585: 581: 580: 572: 568: 567: 562: 556: 555: 554:Specifications 547: 546: 539: 536: 533: 532: 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2649: 2645: 2641: 2637: 2636:Pigsonthewing 2622:{{{caption}}} 2616: 2607: 2598: 2589: 2580: 2579: 2569: 2560: 2553:{{{Klassen}}} 2551: 2542: 2533: 2524: 2515: 2506: 2499:{{{Gefälle}}} 2497: 2488: 2479: 2470: 2461: 2452: 2443: 2434: 2425: 2416: 2407: 2398: 2389: 2382:{{{Bremsen}}} 2380: 2371: 2362: 2355:{{{Antrieb}}} 2353: 2344: 2335: 2326: 2317: 2308: 2299: 2290: 2281: 2272: 2263: 2254: 2245: 2236: 2227: 2218: 2209: 2200: 2191: 2182: 2173: 2164: 2155: 2146: 2137: 2128: 2119: 2110: 2101: 2092: 2083: 2074: 2065: 2056: 2047: 2038: 2029: 2020: 2011: 2002: 1993: 1984: 1975: 1966: 1957: 1948: 1939: 1930: 1921: 1912: 1903: 1894: 1885: 1876: 1867: 1858: 1849: 1840: 1831: 1822: 1813: 1804: 1795: 1786: 1777: 1768: 1759: 1750: 1741: 1732: 1723: 1714: 1705: 1696: 1687: 1678: 1669: 1660: 1653:{{{Gattung}}} 1651: 1641: 1631: 1621: 1612: 1603: 1600:{{{retired}}} 1594: 1585: 1576: 1567: 1558: 1549: 1548: 1547: 1546: 1540: 1539: 1535: 1528: 1524: 1518: 1516: 1510: 1507: 1506: 1501: 1497: 1493: 1490: 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41: 36: 35: 32: 31: 26: 22: 18: 17: 5388: 5304: 5280: 5266: 5264: 5259: 5251: 5247: 5237: 5227: 5217: 5184: 5179: 5128:Withdrawing. 5057: 5030: 5023: 4980: 4976: 4900:Donnerbüchse 4785: 4747: 4727: 4724: 4721: 4687: 4518: 4514: 4464: 4460: 4456: 4351:{{{Anzahl}}} 4347:{{{number}}} 4313: 4252: 4248: 4026: 4003: 3993: 3990: 3846:|Flownipple= 3773: 3749: 3738: 3649: 3645: 3624:Andy Mabbett 3514: 3510: 3506: 3480:Andy's edits 3476:Talk to Andy 3467:Andy Mabbett 3415:Andy's edits 3411:Talk to Andy 3402:Andy Mabbett 3393: 3372: 3360:Infobox Berg 3348: 3312:Prussian P 8 3174: 3120:Andy's edits 3116:Talk to Andy 3107:Andy Mabbett 3076: 3045: 3020:{{{color1}}} 3001: 2960: 2956: 2936:Andy's edits 2932:Talk to Andy 2923:Andy Mabbett 2902:Andy's edits 2898:Talk to Andy 2889:Andy Mabbett 2875:merged with 2872: 2786: 2763:Andy's edits 2759:Talk to Andy 2750:Andy Mabbett 2690:Andy's edits 2686:Talk to Andy 2677:Andy Mabbett 2632: 2604:{{{color2}}} 2600:{{{Farbe2}}} 2595:{{{color1}}} 2591:{{{Farbe1}}} 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