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their documentation says that they mark text as a specific language, hence, it's not supporting use cases beyond that. If we start spelling out these kinds of basic things with even more verbiage, we run the risk of folks just saying "TLDR!" Anyway, I don't think it's useful to further argue about this on a theoretical basis, let's just spend the time and effort working on improving these docs through normal editorial process. --
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actually sufficiently confused by this phrasing and needs more help before we assume that they exist... One thing that does stand out as needing to be fixed is the fact that these highly visible templates are protection material, so they should have documentation split off into a subpage that can be edited by anyone. --
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I thought you had criticized my earlier docs as too much of a intricate pseudo code to be readable by laymen, but most of what you described is like that in turn :) Like, of course you can't pass the first parameter into any of these four templates as language code. That is precluded by the fact that
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I did a lot of the conversion so far and didn't change the separator because I didn't want to mix 2 separate migrations. However, a lot of this usage was additions of slash unformatted
Cyrillic text, so I don't think it's really a truly informed stylistic choice. We could just as well just choose to
1367:
That's the problem I'm telling you - they're not the same for all cases necessarily. The Serbo-Croatian ones might be in one set of categories, the
Serbian ones in another. The applications do not necessarily overlap 100%. If you want to distinguish those cases within the same page, that sounds like
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and converting, because there's a lot of them out there, so I just copied the protection level. Since there's 4 variants for each and sh and sr, the total number will be divided among them and go relatively low per template, but the reason why I felt it was automatically appropriate is because the
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to separate Latin and
Cyrillic in case of Serbo-Croatian. Sometimes it's because a comma is much more likely to be part of the actual text inside lang tags, but the vast majority of articles I've seen to date favor a slash (probably out of preference). An argument in favor of a comma could be the
930:
Why would we duplicate the entire documentation, and fork the effort in maintaining it? I don't see the point of this, we should point people to click the fine link without needing to read the source, but wholesale duplication seems utterly pointless to me. Let's see if we can find a user who is
1255:
Nice, thanks. I appreciate that a fair amount of effort went into creating the abstraction, and for just 4 use cases to date :) Now, I did notice that the more specific categories are gone. Is it safe to copy the category parameter implementation from the bottom of
913:. You should do that. As the creator of these templates, it is incumbent upon you to provide documentation for future editors who aren't privy to the inner workings of your templates. Please do the right thing for them.
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remove them. I don't think we convey anything truly informative to a typical
English reader by changing the default separator, and in lists of multiple foreign languages this makes it stand out for no reason. --
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that identifies the two separate language category areas. Anyone wanting to add a new category should be able to place the new category into the proper section without difficulty.
1412:, these two sets of categories are segregated so that the Serbo-Croatian categories apply to the Serbo-Croatian templates and the Serbian categories apply to the Serbian templates.
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Editor confusion due to inadequate documentation is not something that I am making up; it is a real thing even when a template has the best of documentation. There is no need to
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Aha, so we shouldn't transclude that /doc but instead link it for reference? Easy enough to do, it's just that it's different from the base use case so I defaulted to that. --
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fact it resembles other dual-script lang templates, just without saying "romanized" after it. Not proposing either, just seeking opinions on the default separator. -
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41:. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
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1501:", so that phrase didn't convey to me "I just made it happen" but merely that you were talking about some already existing, common set of categories. --
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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and explains the workings and purpose of that template; some of it applies to these templates without modification; some of it does not.
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So, the editor clicks on the help link and ends up at the top of that template's documentation. But where is the help? The is some at
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well, no, that's the place we can use to place the more specific categories, and one that isn't liable for template protection. --
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Appropriately constructed, a single doc page will support all four of the two-script templates so no forking and no duplication.
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Oh, I see now, you made that change shortly before posting "Template-specific categories can be, as they already are, in
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error messaging. Note that the error messaging for this template is a bit different from the error messaging emitted by
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is all that you intended to do as far as documentation, that is wholly inadequate. The documentation does not document
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And despite my oftimes claims to the contrary, there are editors out there who do actually read template documentation.
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This template, and the others that I mentioned require proper documentation. Certainly you can edit a copy of the
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or usage notes, move these to the documentation subpage. If the template does not require documentation, add
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Agreed, we should explain the implementation to clarify the implications, I'll have a crack at that too. --
49:}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. This template does not have a
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1645:) really need to be template-protected? With only ~200 transclusions semi-protection should suffice.
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template doc is bound to cause unnecessary confusion. This template's documentation should document
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745:. But, no, because this template's documentation, as it stands at this writing, does not
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is used on four templates, without good reason (persistent vandalism or what-have-you),
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is not likely to be protected. There is no need for these extra, unused, ~/doc pages.
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What? Where did you get that idea? My criticism was about the blind cloning of the
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documentation, but the original clone and the current documentation is not adequate.
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of
Template:Lang-sh-Latn-Cyrl/doc are the same. The specific categories from
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but that documentation says nothing about what has gone wrong with the broken
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error messaging. I suggested how you might create adequate documentation:
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template's available parameters. The above error message is specific to
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From personal usage and reading, more articles seem to opt for a slash
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which I leave to you. I expect that you can copy the whole of the
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For example, an editor writes this, which causes an error message:
1062:. We write template documentation for the avoidance of confusion.
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to use Latn script. That is not (and should not be) explained at
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most common usage pattern is in the lead sections of articles. --
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The documentation for this template should not be a clone of the
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are no longer required. Without objection, I shall delete them.
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Template-specific categories can be, as they already are, in
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and scroll to the bottom. The specific categories from
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This and the other two-script templates do not support:
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Look at the listed categories there. Are they correct?
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anywhere in this discussion. If I have, show me where.
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There is no need for these extra, unused, ~/doc pages.
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more complicated syntax that few will understand... --
77:. Functionality of the template can be checked using
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of
Template:Lang-sr-Cyrl-Latn/doc are the same. In
502:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
418:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
350:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
739:because this template is a wrapper template around
647:template. For the uninitiated editor, seeing the
280:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina
53:subpage. You can create the documentation subpage
1060:find a user who is actually sufficiently confused
653:documentation when the editor is looking at the
731:Yes and no. Yes, this template should link to
199:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1715:Template-Class Bosnia and Herzegovina articles
1720:NA-importance Bosnia and Herzegovina articles
1078:we should point people to click the fine link
8:
1725:All WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina pages
283:Template:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina
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1515:So I can delete the orphaned ~/doc pages?
71:Any contributor may edit the template's
1140:. I don't think that I have mentioned
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39:heavily used or highly visible template
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1664:I keep going through invocations of
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687:Template:Lang-sh-Cyrl-Latn/testcases
683:Template:Lang-sh-Latn-Cyrl/testcases
971:does; the two-script templates use
364:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Croatia
205:It is of interest to the following
113:for discussing improvements to the
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1745:Template-Class Montenegro articles
1532:Don't see any reason against it --
1417:Go to the current template pages:
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267:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina
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1775:NA-importance Yugoslavia articles
1750:NA-importance Montenegro articles
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57:. If the template page contains
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1637:Does this template (along with
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1755:Template-Class Serbia articles
1735:NA-importance Croatia articles
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1289:Template:lang-sr-Cyrl-Latn/doc
1285:Template:lang-sh-Latn-Cyrl/doc
1281:Template:lang-sh-Cyrl-Latn/doc
1080:I don't know what you mean by
1:
1760:NA-importance Serbia articles
1740:All WikiProject Croatia pages
1695:17:31, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
1655:20:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
706:18:51, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
510:and see a list of open tasks.
426:and see a list of open tasks.
358:and see a list of open tasks.
254:Bosnia and Herzegovina portal
127:Put new text under old text.
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367:Template:WikiProject Croatia
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1704:Categories
1647:* Pppery *
1626:Protection
1234:text with
580:Yugoslavia
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420:Montenegro
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80:test cases
59:categories
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712:templates
173:if needed
156:Be polite
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111:talk page
43:consensus
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74:sandbox
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1662:Pppery
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