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nick, which realistically can only happen about once per user since if they've connected to
Freenode before they've probably found a nick they like that isn't taken, isn't too severe. After all, if they're using an IRC client they're probably pretty familiar with how to change their nick and the few second delay it takes them to realize the nick they chose was taken isn't going to inconvenience them much, definitely not as much as anyone trying to link to a channel with more than one hash is currently being inconvenienced.
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isn't complicated itself. I can see how having the ircs link on the channel name could make things confusing for people. There is no feedback if you don't have an IRC client that supports those links, it just does nothing. I tried putting a blue "ircs://" link after a green "webchat" link and think that might also confuse some people so I think with the ircs links it should be left for now, and again I have no preference between "webchat" and "connect" when there's just one link.
391:, but according to this templates docs, that isn't how the template is "supposed" to work and so making that change could break some templates, or more accurately, keep them broken. That said, I have no opposition to this change since that's probably how it should have been set up in the first place. My issue with the current version is a link that looks like it should take you to a channel with more than one # will take you to the channel with one less, (example: link
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way docs said to, and I'm hoping that it will one day actually take visitors to the right channel, while displaying the correct number of hashes. It appears as if
PhantomTech's proposal will solve this problem. As PhantomTech said, The blue button takes you through to your iRC client (which means you already know how to use IRC and can change your nick), the green one takes you to the webchat (and hopefully, the channel with the correct number of hashes.)
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as closely as possible. I'll be back once I find that and see what state it was left in by Theo and myself. I've also updated the table to offer live examples. I'll not that I don't specifically object to this change, but due to the very high transclusion rate, I want to make sure that it is done correctly and all uses of the template are properly updated before/as the change is made. —
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356:. In other words, Freenode just assumes that if there are zero #'s there should be one, and if there is one there should still be one, and if there are more than one it is also treated as that number. So since Im not entirely clear how the template behaved before Nov 2014, Im not sure I support either one of these options.
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something that could have been done a few days ago. If you want to check to see how this change affects current transclusions feel free, but I would be amazed if you were able to find a single transclusion where this change couldn't be considered a fix, even Soap's change would hardly affect any current transclusions.
649:
This proposed change still breaks the expected behavior of loading into IRC with the status window in focus when "channel" is used as opposed to "#channel". In order for me to support this change, the talk page of every usage of "channel" will need to have a discussion about where that project wants
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This "situation" doesn't require a module to be fixed and attempting to make one to do so unnecessarily complicates and delays the fix, even more than it already has been. If you want to try to add anything to the template other than this, feel free to keep working on it but please don't let it delay
1334:
It's been a couple of weeks and no one has objected to the change. If you personally prefer the current version, I don't have a problem with it not being changed. I made the request because I thought I was fixing a feature that had been removed because it was broken, I don't have a strong preference
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but I was not able to get the links to work correctly when URL encoding the # and having it not encoded is allowed per the draft. The ischannel parameter was also required to get it to work despite the draft saying it should be assumed when omitted. While trying to fix issues I saw reports that some
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are example transclusions in my sandbox showing what the current version does. I have tested the first two in HexChat and they both go to a single-hash channel, contrary to what the documentation says should happen, so something does need to be done, though I can't say for sure what. Either Soap's
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I've updated the sandbox with
PhantomTech's proposed code, and I am working on finding the Lua module that Theopolisme (IIRC) started working on to take over for this template to deal with this situation as-well-as add the ability to add the visitor's nick to the link to match their username on enwp
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the modification. After reading all of the arguments for and against, and asking
Technical 13 to provide a straight-up specific example of a template that would be broken I found no compelling reason to retain the template in the way it is. I have a transclusion of this template on my userpage, the
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to take you to a status window some sort of common knowledge that I'm simply unaware of? I haven't been around here as long as some people, but last time I checked, when a policy is changed it isn't proposed on the talk pages of every affected article, I don't see why making a template work the way
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the user to load. I know that when I use this on talk page discussions, I specifically leave off the # so that people will load to the status window and will know if they need to pick another nick because the one they want is taken or registered and won't be stuck being Guest##### unexpectedly. —
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It changes the behavior of the end result. Going to #channel loads up the IRC client and focuses on the the channel, Going to channel loads up the IRC client and takes you to the status pane. All of the instances where no preceding # is used in the parameter will be broken if this change is made
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In its current state, any link which appears to go to a channel with multiple # goes to the channel with one less. The proposed change causes the template to behave as is explained in the docs and how it did prior to
November 4 2014, when the change that the proposed one undoes was introduced. Any
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I agree with "webchat" over "connect" if there's going to be two links that both intend to connect you in some way. I don't have a preference between connect and webchat with just one link, connect seems like simpler language that more people are likely to understand but at the same time webchat
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would be more complicated than a policy change. Maybe I'm missing something but I have the strangest feeling that most people using these links use the connect button, not an IRC client. I also have a weird feeling that the shock(?) experienced by users of IRC clients when they are given a Guest
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links that give different ways of connecting. If this line of thinking is no longer one that holds a strong consensus, then I don't see any reason to go back to the old way, but I do no know it was discussed and it was the reason why we never re-added in a link there.
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going through the web client; i.e. if I (personally) see an IRC link, I switch to IRC and then /join the channel (i.e. anyone who would be using a client-based IRC connection is probably already connected), so seeing "connect" (which let's be honest, is probably 90%
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I don't think this needs a formal RFC, but it probably needs some cross-posting since this page is only watched by 13 folks. That being said, if no one other than me objects (and/or I cannot find the older discussion) then I suppose we can implement those changes.
1179:. If this change is implemented I might try to create a similar ircs:// link on the disclaimer page to make it easier for people to use their own clients if I can think of a way that wouldn't be too intrusive or confusing for people who don't use their own client.
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I mark it this way because one of the other reasons (and I have legitimately spent five minutes looking for the thread and cannot find it) for removal of the link was the "surprise" factor, i.e it makes total sense to click a "connect" link but less so to have
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so feel free to tell me to go away) is with the "connect" link going to the web client. I think I'd personally prefer renaming "connect" to "webchat" or something along those lines, and I guess this becomes slightly more important if we've got two links.
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which indicates to the client that a "secure" connection should be made. This will allow anyone using an IRC client that supports handling ircs:// links to connect to the channel through their IRC client by clicking the link on the channel
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break any transclusions which show a link to the proper channel, the transclusions it does break are broken in the sense that they will go to the channel they say they do, feel free to test that. Here's a table showing the changes and
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The template previously made the channel name text an irc:// link to the channel, allowing users with IRC clients that support handling irc:// links to click on the channel name and have their IRC client connect to it. This
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Annoyingly enough I do recognise this is largely a bike shed issue, with three mostly-apathetic folks who are likely a) not the target audience of this template, and b) can find reasonably good arguments for both changing
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tags, again only when not going to #wikipedia-en-help, to make it stand out better as distinct, especially when used inline, but there are alternatives like bolding that could be used, I'm not sure if it's needed at all.
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Well, in that case, once you update all of the existing uses of the template to explicitly have the #, then we can make changes to this template. Otherwise, all of the occurrences will break and I won't support that. —
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Recognising that I have no diff to point to, but the conversation I remember having was that having the channel name linked (in the style of a wikilink) but then opening up an :irc: link was problematic from an
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clients may handle a link with a single # in it as to a ## channel, as best as I can tell this is an implementation issue in the client and something that needs to be fixed by that client's developer(s).
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I prefer the template to behave the way an IRC client itself would. I believe all IRC clients on
Freenode automatically insert a # if you type a bare word as the channel name. For example, if i type
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and they all worked as intended for me. If a user doesn't have any clients that can handle the link, nothing will happen when it is clicked. Using # instead of %23 in the channel name is discouraged by
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I've updated the template in my userspace to use webchat instead of connect and stack client over webchat when not linking to #wikipedia-en-help. I've also put the channel name in <code: -->
609:, and have the link display the right number of hashes. The change fixes that issue without breaking any current transclusions, though the parameter would not behave exactly as an IRC client.
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The mismatch between link text and link targets is the problem the proposed change fixes. In its current state, it is impossible to link to a channel with two or more hashes, like
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Would it be too clunky to have something like #wikipedia-en or something similar? It eliminates the link-in-text issue but still provides a standalone client-based link.
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perspective, especially when the "connect" link had a completely different functionality. As an aside, I genuinely don't know who would be connecting to a channel
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936:. Would it be possible to add an #if statement so that if the parameter is #wikipeda-en-help it goes to the disclaimer rather than the freenode connect page?
41:. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
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There are certain tools, scripts, and settings we have set up with Kiwi (mainly regarding automatic granting of usernames). Will these settings port over?
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No real preference from me on having the channel name linked or not. My gripe (which may or may not be out of scope for this edit req, and is also
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template that currently attempts to link to a channel with more than one # misleads the user by showing the name with an extra #. This change
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The libera webchat is just an embeded version of kiwi irc, like the freenode webchat linked before, so there shouldn't be be any issues. --
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as per kikichu. Unless you can produce a place where it would break the template, I see no reason why the change should not be made.
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the proposed change to break them and would not affect (i.e. be completely pointless) transclusions if Soap's change was made.
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I'd be interested to see an example of a template that it would be breaking, or two examples, or three.
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Notice that in the current version, the link's text does not always match the channel the link goes to.
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Do you want me to start an RfC or just leave this for a few days to see if anyone opposes the change?
581:: is there any reason why the "link label" doesn't reflect the channel which the link takes users to?
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that would be broken by the proposed change. In fact, adding a # to current transclusions
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No need for formal closure, a clear consensus has been reached, change already enacted.
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folks anyway) gives the indication of "oh, I guess I'll be connecting to that channel".
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and there will be NO WAY for people to have that behavior using this template. —
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Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion/Log/2022 July 15#Template:Libera.Chat
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keeping status quo. So if no one has a strong preference... what do we do?
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When the channel name is wikipedia-en-help, the channel name will be a link
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I'd rather have the template behave the same way as a standard IRC client.
1190:. Not all clients can handle irc or ircs links, I tested the links using
399:) something that is easily fixed by my change with no negative effects.
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The channel name will once again be a link, this time an ircs:// link
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1559:), but it was protected, so it could not be tagged. Please add:
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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the modification. It cleans up the template transclution code.
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to the top of the page to complete the nomination. Thank you.
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You're right, freenode will automatically take you to
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Libera has now it's own webchat, thus please replace
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forgot to conclude the RfC with an archive template.
67:. Functionality of the template can be checked using
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The following discussion is an archived record of a
1360:The short answer is yes, but I'll elaborate below.
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No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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No further edits should be made to this discussion.
679:Is the idea that it is expected for the link to
1613:Template-protected edit request on 24 July 2022
1106:Template-protected edit request on 22 June 2022
1009:https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/
594:changed to support at 15:48, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
1659:and remove the merge discussion notification.
1188:User:PhantomTech/sandbox/Libera.Chat/testcases
116:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
1555:has been listed at Templates for discussion (
831:Template-protected edit request on 6 May 2015
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871:Per consensus above, restore the changes in
790:or PhantomTech's changes would be good.
1384:such a minor gripe to be hardly worth it
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61:Any contributor may edit the template's
1516:Edit request to complete TfD nomination
963:) for more info, but it looks like the
39:heavily used or highly visible template
957:User_talk:Primefac#About_IRC_templates
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1172:Knowledge (XXG):IRC help disclaimer
934:Knowledge (XXG):IRC help disclaimer
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1643:to reactivate your request.
1631:has been answered. Set the
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1000:to reactivate your request.
988:has been answered. Set the
946:01:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
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853:has been answered. Set the
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1186:A test page is located at
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97:RfC: Template modification
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1170:However, it will link to
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818:Please do not modify it.
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111:Please do not modify it.
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489:I'm still not aware of
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100:
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24:
13:
10:
9:
6:
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3:
2:
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1698:
1692:
1691:
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1681:
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1658:
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1630:
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1600:
1596:
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1585:
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1132:parameter to
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1111:
1105:
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983:
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950:
948:
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943:
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935:
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919:
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861:parameter to
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848:
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378:
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365:
364:
359:
348:, and typing
346:#wikipedia-en
338:#wikipedia-en
330:
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144:
133:
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127:Esquivalience
122:
118:
117:
115:
112:
107:
102:
101:
96:
74:
72:
71:
66:
65:
58:
54:
53:
52:documentation
48:
44:
40:
36:
34:
28:
25:
18:
17:
1685:
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1629:edit request
1594:
1566:
1561:
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1532:edit request
1489:
1483:
1448:
1442:
1422:
1409:
1390:stwalkerster
1343:
1337:
1313:
1307:
1266:
1260:
1236:
1231:
1208:
1202:
1183:
1182:
1169:
1165:
1158:
1148:
1141:
1133:
1122:edit request
1082:
1038:
1018:. Regards --
1005:
997:
986:edit request
961:now archived
954:
927:
906:
883:
877:
870:
862:
847:edit request
826:
817:
814:
798:
795:
792:
772:
766:
750:
732:
707:
702:
691:
680:
654:Technical 13
617:
612:
578:
574:
570:
566:
565:
550:Technical 13
527:Technical 13
505:
500:
494:
490:
476:Technical 13
456:
451:
434:Technical 13
426:
407:
402:
361:
314:
309:
223:
218:
213:
208:
203:
198:
193:Post-change
172:
154:
149:
146:be applied?
139:
124:
110:
103:
68:
62:
60:
50:
35:from editing
31:permanently
30:
1663:PhantomTech
1299:Crossposted
1152:was removed
757:TheMesquito
741:kikichugirl
633:PhantomTech
536:kikichugirl
495:would cause
292:###channel
121:PhantomTech
1633:|answered=
1557:nomination
1536:|answered=
1197:IETF draft
1126:|answered=
990:|answered=
855:|answered=
354:##penguins
340:. Typing
296:###channel
289:##channel
285:###channel
281:##channel
278:##channel
268:##channel
70:test cases
57:categories
681:a channel
393:##channel
272:##channel
265:#channel
261:##channel
257:#channel
254:#channel
244:#channel
233:#channel
224:Link text
214:Parameter
209:Link text
199:Parameter
143:655008232
43:consensus
33:protected
1599:Primefac
1467:Primefac
1427:Primefac
1362:Primefac
1332:Primefac
1286:Primefac
1256:Primefac
1242:Primefac
1184:Testing:
1088:Primefac
1058:Primefac
1043:Primefac
938:Primefac
696:its docs
607:##chanel
579:question
397:#channel
395:goes to
389:#channel
381:#channel
248:#channel
241:channel
237:#channel
230:channel
173:does not
1415:IRCHELP
1410:without
1192:HexChat
767:Support
751:Support
733:Support
703:Phantom
637:APerson
613:Phantom
601:APerson
583:APerson
571:Support
501:Phantom
452:Phantom
427:Comment
403:Phantom
385:channel
310:Phantom
150:Phantom
64:sandbox
1573:HANTOM
1487:HANTOM
1446:HANTOM
1341:HANTOM
1311:HANTOM
1303:WT:IRC
1264:HANTOM
1206:HANTOM
910:Alakzi
880:HANTOM
804:(talk)
692:always
577:Also,
567:Oppose
176:issue:
1637:|ans=
1627:This
1540:|ans=
1530:This
1162:name.
1130:|ans=
1120:This
1012:with
994:|ans=
984:This
859:|ans=
845:This
793:ekips
641:talk!
587:talk!
1680:Done
1603:talk
1595:Done
1498:talk
1471:talk
1457:talk
1431:talk
1395:talk
1366:talk
1352:talk
1322:talk
1290:talk
1275:talk
1246:talk
1217:talk
1092:talk
1083:Done
1068:talk
1064:Zabe
1047:talk
1024:talk
1020:Zabe
955:See
942:talk
928:Per
914:talk
907:Done
892:talk
787:Here
714:talk
708:Tech
652:{{U|
624:talk
618:Tech
548:{{U|
512:talk
506:Tech
474:{{U|
463:talk
457:Tech
432:{{U|
414:talk
408:Tech
363:Soap
321:talk
315:Tech
161:talk
155:Tech
1696:ed.
1635:or
1577:ECH
1538:or
1493:ECH
1452:ECH
1423:and
1406:EGG
1347:ECH
1317:ECH
1301:to
1270:ECH
1237:two
1212:ECH
1128:or
992:or
886:ECH
857:or
849:to
656:}}
552:}}
478:}}
436:}}
387:or
185:Now
29:is
1693:,
1683:.
1641:no
1605:)
1544:no
1500:)
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1459:)
1433:)
1397:)
1368:)
1354:)
1324:)
1305:.
1292:)
1277:)
1248:)
1219:)
1146:.
1134:no
1094:)
1086:.
1070:)
1049:)
1026:)
998:no
944:)
916:)
894:)
875:.
863:no
738:—
716:)
643:)
626:)
589:)
533:—
514:)
465:)
416:)
323:)
163:)
108:.
73:.
59:.
1601:(
1575:T
1571:P
1496:(
1490:T
1484:P
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1455:(
1449:T
1443:P
1429:(
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1338:P
1330:@
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1308:P
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1267:T
1261:P
1254:@
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878:P
799:9
796:3
712:(
639:(
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603::
599:@
585:(
529::
525:@
510:(
461:(
412:(
368:—
358:—
319:(
189:→
159:(
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