Knowledge (XXG)

Template talk:Masses, Magnificat, Passions and Oratorios by Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re. "the Magnificat, it IS an early version of the whole Magnificat", yeah, but a more extended version, so with a different number of movements too, while, mostly, early versions rather have less movements than later versions, as it is the case for the B minor mass. So, you are making distinctions
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familiar with the topic would even know there are parts, and "early version2 doesn't meen "of the Mass" but "... of Part I of the Mass" or "... of Kyrie and Gloria of the Mass". I'd say Missa, and believe that some might know that it was Bach's name for a Kyrie-Gloria mass. I'd mention 1733 hinting
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familiar with the topic ..." – I don't see how "Missa of 1733" would be any better. On the contrary, since no date of the Mass in B minor is mentioned in the template (nor should there, imho), 1733 doesn't even signify "early"; the term "Missa", being Latin, and meaning nothing else than Mass (for
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I think that saying just "early version" about the Mass in B-minor might lead a reader who doesn't know better to thinking an early version of that Mass, - while it's only Kyrie and Gloria, which might be clearer if called Missa, also the year 1733 is more precise than "early". Now that we have a
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not starting with a complete unknown one, but his famous St John and St Matthew. Several ways are possible, for example splitting in Passions (completely) by Bach and the others, or adding dates but not also sort by dates.
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For the time being: the early versions of Part II and III of the Mass in B minor are mentioned in the intro of the article linked as "early version" of the Mass in B minor, so for me that works as it is now.
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For clarity, adding too much information to a navbox is not desirable too, but I'm open to sensible improvements. As for when the other early version articles are written, I suppose something like
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I have no problem with someone starting articles on the early versions of Part II and Part III of the Mass in B minor. When that is done we can re-evaluate how to present in the navbox, like
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Equally for clarity, I changed it back to the former format, only adapting the part before the pipe to the new page name, so that the format is equal to, on the same line,
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familiar with the topic". Missa can mean a Mass with its usual five sections, and the Latin term *has* been used for the entire Mass in B minor (among others, by
249: 234: 220: 187: 165: 105: 82: 55: 35: 225:... I should unwatch this, but one more: For the Magnificat, it IS an early version of the whole Magnificat, for the Mass, only of about half of it. -- 199: 203: 96:
at how much earlier this was. - Better ideas welcome, but "Mass in B minor (early version ...)" is needlessly unclear. --
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Where we don't use any part of the actual article title for the early version either. --
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just to spare others the trouble of looking at the history: I suggested to pipe
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those who understand it), is totally unclear for "a reader who is
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that are in no way substantive to the matter at hand. --
62: 21:I believe that we serve our readers better with 8: 46:good name for the piece, why not show it? -- 110:Re. "It doesn't answer how a reader who is 63:was done a few months ago when all six 91:It doesn't answer how a reader who is 7: 14: 67:cantatas got a separate article 1: 156:and not what you suggest. -- 276: 250:11:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 235:11:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 221:10:59, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 188:10:48, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 174:as little as possible, to 166:10:30, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 106:10:10, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 83:09:42, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 56:09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC) 36:13:52, 9 May 2017 (UTC) 208: 153: 193: 130: 172:Bach's Missa of 1733 121:Philippe Herreweghe 17:Header and grouping 65:Christmas Oratorio 135:(early versions: 267: 242:Francis Schonken 213:Francis Schonken 158:Francis Schonken 75:Francis Schonken 275: 274: 270: 269: 268: 266: 265: 264: 133:Mass in B minor 43: 41:"early version" 19: 12: 11: 5: 273: 271: 263: 262: 261: 260: 259: 258: 257: 256: 255: 254: 253: 252: 209: 190: 154: 127: 86: 85: 70: 42: 39: 18: 15: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 272: 251: 247: 243: 238: 237: 236: 232: 228: 224: 223: 222: 218: 214: 210: 207: 205: 201: 200:early version 197: 191: 189: 185: 181: 177: 176:Missa of 1733 173: 169: 168: 167: 163: 159: 155: 152: 150: 146: 142: 138: 134: 128: 125: 122: 118: 113: 109: 108: 107: 103: 99: 94: 90: 89: 88: 87: 84: 80: 76: 71: 68: 66: 60: 59: 58: 57: 53: 49: 40: 38: 37: 33: 29: 24: 16: 227:Gerda Arendt 194: 180:Gerda Arendt 151:• ...) • ... 131: 116: 111: 98:Gerda Arendt 92: 64: 48:Gerda Arendt 44: 28:Gerda Arendt 22: 20: 204:discography 196:Magnificat 149:structure 23:Passions 137:Part I 246:talk 231:talk 217:talk 184:talk 178:. -- 162:talk 102:talk 79:talk 52:talk 32:talk 145:III 117:not 112:not 93:not 248:) 233:) 219:) 202:• 186:) 164:) 147:• 141:II 126:). 123:: 104:) 81:) 73:-- 54:) 34:) 26:-- 244:( 229:( 215:( 206:) 198:( 182:( 160:( 143:/ 139:/ 100:( 77:( 69:. 50:( 30:(

Index

Gerda Arendt
talk
13:52, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt
talk
09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
was done a few months ago when all six Christmas Oratorio cantatas got a separate article
Francis Schonken
talk
09:42, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt
talk
10:10, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Philippe Herreweghe

Mass in B minor
Part I
II
III
structure
Francis Schonken
talk
10:30, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Bach's Missa of 1733
Missa of 1733
Gerda Arendt
talk
10:48, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Magnificat
early version

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