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navbox just about their no longer existent music careers seems bizarre to me. And yes, actor navboxes could be messy, but if created, we could have maybe like a three starring role rule - only the three main stars of the film's navbox can be used in the article. Thoughts? I think this is long overdue. —
825:
I agree, navigation templates are for navigating between existing
Knowledge (XXG) aritcles, and therefore redirects should not be used, especially where one link redirects to an article already linked in the same template. I'm often removing plain text from navigation templates but don't always check
1620:
In short, we should make it clear that associated acts should be nav boxes. Record labels that the band has released albums on should not appear in navigation templates. The exceptions to this should be few and far between, such as when you cannot think of one without the other. Otherwise, only list
1649:
Sorry. I was having a bad day yesterday. Agree that labels (unless founded and maintained by the whole band) should not be listed. Associated bands are probably not best listed in the nav. Part of the rationale is that the nav template can appear on more articles that do not have the band's infobox
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Don't worry, we can't be our best everyday, can we? As for the acts, I don't see them as distractions, honestly. I believe a casual reader would expect to see Alter Bridge at the Creed navbox, or at least wouldn't find it strange to see it there. Unfortunately nobody else is commenting so we can't
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Since navigation templates serve a different purpose from infoboxes, I don't think associated acts should be listed at all unless there is an even deeper association than that needed for the infobox. We only list labels that the band itself started, and that is a different criteria than what is in
595:
I kind of agree with what you are saying, in a way, but I think that as long as only starring roles are mentioned in the infobox, it should be okay. Personally, I think a navbox should be created for actors. For example, artists like Hilary and
Lindsay are pretty much done with music, so to have a
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Definitely. The way I read that, it implies that the red links should only be added if the articles are likely to be created and kept. In musical artist navboxes, I generally find that redlinks are from articles on minor releases that were deleted, or have been there forever and the articles are
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This seems to condone the use of navigation templates as mini-discographies as long as unlinked text is simply red linked. I think
Template:Navbox musical artist should opt out of this exception. For many musicians with large catalogues, this would result in ridiculously oversized navboxes that
879:
One of the problems I frequently run into with musical artist navboxes is that they're often treated as little discographies, with editors cramming in every release by an artist—EPs, singles, obscure releases, etc.—regardless of whether there are articles about those topics to link to. Thus the
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are just a few singers that also have few or more acting credits under their belts. Listing every film and TV show that they have done is superfluous, the more their careers continue the more acting work they are going to do. The Navbox musical artist template is exactly that a template for the
807:
I think
Knowledge (XXG) should have a policy on whether or not this should occur because, theoretically, any single given release could be included in a navbox as long as it is linked to another article. I personally think all subjects without their own article – with the possible exception of
1074:
Red links can be retained in navigation templates that represent a well-defined and complete set of data (geographic divisions, annual events, filmographies, etc.), where deleting red links would leave an incomplete and misleading result. Even then, editors are encouraged to
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Navboxes should not be used for this purpose. Navboxes facilitate navigation, i.e., contain links to articles directly relating to the subject. Other artists who recorded the subject's songs are peripheral or only loosely related to the subject. If the covers meet
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person as a musical artist NOT as an actor. Adding the person's name and a hashtag linking to the filmography section in the person's page (like this Person#Filmography) should suffice linking it from the template. But anyway, what are your opinions?
1576:"grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation between those articles". "The goal is not to cram as many related articles as possible into one space." "Navigation templates provide navigation between related articles".
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Relax, I was just trying to understand your reasoning, but in the end it seems we are on the same page anyway. And I agree listing labels in navboxes would be pointless, indeed, unless there's a connection significantly deeper than a mere contract.
544:
Wow this talk page hasn't been edited in a while, anyway I wanted to start this discussion on what other people's opinions are on having films/TV series listed in the musical artist template. I for one find it very unnecessary considering acts like
1156:. I think it is hard to apply this to the musical artist navbox because not all albums/songs are notable enough for a standalone article. For example, if a song/album article is deleted, it makes no sense for it to be in the template as a redlink.
630:
The only time I feel that a film or TV show should be listed in the template is if the artist was active with the project as lead actor and executive producer, etc, not just appearing in the film. For example, it should not be a problem if
767:
It may just have been too big a table. I was able to compress some information to bring the # of sections in the template to under 20 (although if DM keep releasing albums, we'll hit the limit again soon enough). Thanks for your reply.
977:"In navigation boxes about musical ensembles, it may be appropriate to list all of the members of the ensemble, to avoid the perception that the ensemble is a solo act, provided that at least one member of the ensemble is notable."
1100:
unlikely to ever be created (and likely wouldn't meet the notability threshold). As you say, the full discography of an artist should either be in the article about the artist or in a separate discography article, if warranted. --
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is an example of a navbox with about 1/3 redlinks. The red links were added to previously unlinked text, with the edit summary "Red links are now acceptable per a change to the guidelines. unlinked text is
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tags weren't supposed to be included, and bodyclass and titleclass are supposed to be parameters in the Navbox template. By the way, I'm in favor of this edit, if we're still trying to build a consensus.
808:
subjects which have their own individual sub-sections in another existing article – should not be included in a navbox, and that the
Discography link in the 'Related articles' section should suffice.
953:
I doubt such a notice would solve the problem, but it might help a bit. At the least it might help inexperienced editors get to know the purpose and function of navboxes a little better. Thoughts? --
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would not provide the intended benefit. An artist's discography is just a click away and provides dates and other details that make some sense out of a shopping list of titles. Thoughts? —
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anything that reduces navbox clutter. As for listing red-linked band members: only if at least 2 are blue-linked; otherwise all should be omitted as there's no navigational benefit. --
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won't display. I don't see anything in the documentation for this template to indicate a limit, and the template appears to be formed properly. Any idea why section 21 isn't appearing?
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513:"Please discuss major changes on the talk page before making them." Does it mean: "Please discuss major changes on the talk page before editing the template." Just a quick comment,
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My suggestion is to add a notice that would automatically appear at the top of the editing page when one tries to edit a musical artist navbox. Similar to the notice that
1241:
beyond the fact that they exist?), the details may be added to the article about the song. If there is no song article, it (and any covers) are probably not notable.—
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and so associated acts don't make much sense in that context and may become a distraction. Thanks for not laying into me for yesterday's over-the-top response.
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1204:
I wanted to add a few cover songs done of PM Dawn tracks. Is there an appropriate place to include this; in the navbox musical artist template or otherwise?
692:
questioning why one template listing an artist's singles and one showing the artist's songs should be displayed differently (in terms of background color). --
1456:. List 21 doesn't display. The only alternative I can see is to move some into sublists, like albums, but I've never done this. Any other option? Thanks.
1617:
Have you given up on wanting to know what the goal of a navbox is? Either carry on a discussion or don't, but I'm not following your bunny trails around.
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The infobox criteria seems restrictive enough, but I hope we all agree at least that spin-offs and/or groups with several members in common are a must.
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I just had someone revert the removal of an "associated act" in a nav box despite there being only a tangential association, and there being no
790:
I am aware it is currently the case that some navboxes are including music releases – e.g. singles – that don't have their own articles. Take
1497:, speaking specifically about musical navboxes, for the sake of consistency, I suggest we apply to them the same reasoning we already do to
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It isn't in the documentation but there is a limit. I tested it using the standard navbox template and I was able to add a 21st section. --
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Basically because they present the same thing (an artist's songs with their own articles listed in a navbox), I've started a discussion at
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link. I have seen people removing these for a few years and yet there are plenty that get added as well. What formal advice can we give?
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But the infobox is a different criteria and has a completely different goal, and no spin-off groups with are a must in a navbox.
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1300:| group4 = ] should be | group4 = Films | group5 = ] should be | group5 = Related articles *] should be removed
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892:). But the problem is pervasive and persistent. I'm sure anyone who works with these navboxes with any regularity can relate.
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Was there a change to this template recently that caused the separators between the album/song titles to disappear? Thanks!
24:
794:, for instance: several of the singles, EPs and albums link to articles that are not specifically about that subject – e.g.
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1069:– I just re-read WP:EXISTING after linking it in an edit summary and was surprised to find this addition from June 2015:
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is usually not required for edits to the documentation, categories, or interlanguage links of templates using a
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is listed in the Miley Cyrus template because naturally the show launched her career, same with Hilary Duff and
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This is something I strongly agree with and would like to see incorporated in a possible notice if possible.
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I'm curious who made that change to EXISTING and if there was any discussion behind it. Do you know? --
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navbox winds up with a lot of redlinks, unlinked text, song titles that pipe to album articles,
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1712:. On that basis, can we please remove the functionality for "autocollapse" as an option? ≫
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Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 14#Template:Selena Gomez songs
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Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 13#Template:Taylor Swift songs
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Knowledge (XXG):Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 13#Template:Katy Perry songs
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a discography for the musical artist, nor a general listing of topics related to them.
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I think the current situation is ok. Major billed roles should be listed only, though.
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Please could someone edit the Led
Zeppelin examples, to remove the following category
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Collapsible templates should not conceal article content by default upon page loading
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998:. I run into this a lot and think an editing notice is a great idea. I also support
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It caused massive page corruptions with articles that have other templates. Namely
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Appropriate place to cite those who did covers of songs by the artist of interest?
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I also think the following is problematic, and the image should be removed:
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Hi Wiki collegues, Please reduce the limit of entries of the Navbox so that
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if you want to see, drop me note. I think it's the used of <code: -->
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Yeah, I think you misunderstood the edit request. The <code: -->
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932:(unless the red linked article is very likely to be created), or
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existing works, and their release years are always optional.
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories, lists, and navigation templates
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has very clear guidance for collapsing in tables. It says
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from song titles to album articles (these are considered
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seen to be damaged. I have a html file of the corrupted
971:– I frequently perform the same tireless edits and link
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Since so many articles are deleted, perhaps meeting
1704:I don't know if this has been discussed before but
1499:Template:Infobox musical artist#associated_acts
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1471:Should we spell-out BIDIRECTIONAL more clearly
786:Linking to subjects without their own articles
717:Is there a limit of 20 entries in this navbox?
975:in my edit summary. At WP:EXISTING, it says,
899:when one goes to edit a BLP. Something like:
192:Is there consensus for this change? — Martin
138:microformat by including the following code:
8:
1174:for all navbox entries should be required. —
1152:: It looks like the decision was made here:
897:automatically appears at the top of the page
156:for groups; and is based on the code use in
540:Films/TV shows being listed in the template
209:Disabled request, as no response. — Martin
1393:Best practice for musical artist navboxes
1033:, and ALL CAPS) or it might be missed. —
914:Navigation templates provide navigation
1665:say what the community thinks of that.
1154:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Red link/Archive 4
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1700:Getting rid of state / auto collapse
1237:(essentially, are they discussed by
946:Knowledge (XXG):Navigation templates
940:). For more information, please see
1574:Knowledge (XXG):Navigation template
1257:Easter eggs in Led Zeppelin example
928:. Please do not add unlinked text,
23:for discussing improvements to the
390:And working perfectly. Thank you.
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45:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
1397:Would anyone like to comment at
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969:Support + possible wording tweak
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40:Click here to start a new topic.
684:Navboxes for songs and singles
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1306:*]Â ('']'') should be * '']''
922:should only contain links to
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37:Put new text under old text.
1021:– Good idea, but prefer the
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1287:to reactivate your request.
1275:has been answered. Set the
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455:Navbox Musical artist/color
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1594:interfering with that on
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499:Penny for your thoughts?
480:20:14, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
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144:The latter line sets the
75:Be welcoming to newcomers
1454:Template:Michael Jackson
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849:Pleaser reduce the limit
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820:00:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
721:The 21st section of the
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665:Change to this template?
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450:Could the redirect from
1449:need more than 20 lists
1370:Ah, thanks! Updated!
1340:edit template-protected
1077:write the article first
1002:'s suggested addition.
581:I completely agree. --
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360:10:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
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269:21:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
251:Because he says so :/ —
1297:and overlinked items:
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875:Add an editing notice?
509:Intro in documentation
301:Infobox musical artist
161:Infobox musical artist
70:avoid personal attacks
1346:documentation subpage
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1115:Template:Hoodoo Gurus
726:navbox for DM singles
339:CapitalR is correct.
123:Add hCard microformat
25:Navbox musical artist
792:Template:The Prodigy
152:for individuals and
1239:WP:Reliable sources
906:navigation template
801:The Fat of the Land
619:I Help, When I Can.
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1235:WP:SONGCOVER
1207:— Preceding
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293:Dolly Parton
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230:Andy Mabbett
183:Andy's edits
170:Andy Mabbett
146:|titleclass=
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19:This is the
1505:guideline.
1031:underscored
973:WP:EXISTING
934:piped links
828:Easter eggs
551:Hilary Duff
492:HJÂ Mitchell
403:Andy's talk
352:Andy's talk
239:Andy's talk
179:Andy's talk
1277:|answered=
857:can work.
838:projectors
671:GoingBatty
584:ipodnano05
1335:Not done:
1309:Thanks!
1213:Sberke206
1150:IllaZilla
1137:IllaZilla
1102:IllaZilla
955:IllaZilla
930:red links
860:Thanks --
83:if needed
66:Be polite
27:template.
21:talk page
1458:deisenbe
1438:superman
1415:superman
1380:superman
1319:superman
1221:contribs
1209:unsigned
1158:Random86
1004:Random86
924:existing
690:WT:SONGS
607:contribs
439:Resolved
327:CapitalR
280:Not done
265:contribs
94:Archives
51:get help
1719:Unique1
1295:WP:EGGs
1243:Ojorojo
1176:Ojorojo
1123:Ojorojo
1087:Ojorojo
1067:Comment
1048:Support
1035:Ojorojo
1019:Support
1000:Fezmar9
996:Support
981:Fezmar9
833:anemone
547:Beyoncé
1433:wooden
1410:wooden
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1350:JJMC89
1314:wooden
916:within
886:before
748:cheers
697:cheers
600:Status
528:WP:MSE
523:HENRUI
486:WP:R2D
397:(User:
381:jones
346:(User:
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233:(User:
173:(User:
154:fn org
1599:Creed
1425:Also
1281:|ans=
1271:This
1118:not".
890:after
770:87Fan
751:peaks
730:87Fan
700:peaks
643:Quasy
566:Quasy
226:Yes.
136:hCard
79:Seek
1729:Talk
1716:Lil-
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1027:bold
1023:KISS
1008:talk
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944:and
920:and
888:and
866:talk
830:". –
816:talk
774:talk
760:wars
757:lost
754:news
745:Star
734:talk
709:wars
706:lost
703:news
694:Star
675:talk
476:talk
371:Done
331:talk
287:and
261:talk
217:talk
213:MSGJ
200:talk
196:MSGJ
68:and
1725:-{
1405:?
1279:or
910:not
648:Boy
571:Boy
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377:Ron
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1430:--
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263:•
257:DJ
253:Th
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150:fn
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