771:; this priest and his congregation were formerly part of the Roman Catholic church but broke away over disagreements with the archbishop over a variety of beliefs and liturgical practices; it also is not part of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Brisbane following the refusal to accept the authority of the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Brisbane. There may well be others that I don't know about. So, in Brisbane, we do have both Roman and non-Roman Catholics and I see no reason to mislead the reader that the archidiocese and archbishop articles/templates etc are embracing all forms of Catholicism when they are specifically concerned only with Roman Catholicism. Given that the Society of Pius X is
721:'s argument of Consistency relates to that user's own mass edits and not to any established consensus. During November 2016, Chicbyaccident renamed and recategorised many articles etc from using the term "Roman Catholic" in their title to simply "Catholic" (including this template). On 20 November 2016 I noticed these edits occurring on my watchlist as Chicbyaccident was changing Australian articles. Having seen no mention of any discussion about this mass renaming, I asked at
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Catholics, so the terms are not interchangeable. On that basis I reverted some of
Chicbyaccident's edits I was aware of through my watchlist, as these articles etc were all Roman Catholic rather than Catholic more broadly. Around 25 March 2017, Chicbyaccident undertook a large number of similar edits (replacing "Roman Catholic" with "Catholic" in titles). Again, I asked at
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There has been no proposal or attempt that I know of to change articles on dioceses from existing "Roman
Catholic" naming to "Catholic". However, yes, the article does contain consensus, as does the category tree as far as I am concerned, logically also circumfering templates, as indicated in all but
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churches, but still "Catholic". We recently made a point of naming
Australian articles to include the denomination in their titles where relevant for consitency, even when not required for disambiguation. Some Anglican and Roman Catholic dioceses had matching names, so all were named to include the
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to establish if there was a consensus to do these renamings. The discussion showed there was no consensus within that project (indeed there was opposition especially in the absence of consensus) and the point was made that there are a number of forms of
Catholicism which are Catholic but not Roman
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shows, this template was first created in 2011 named
Template:Roman Catholic Archbishops of Brisbane, and has remained with that name until the two mass renamings by Chicbyaccident mentioned above, both of which I reverted due to lack of evidence of any consensus following the discussions at the
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and again the discussion shows that there is no consensus and opposition to these renamings. On that basis, I reverted the changes and restored this template to use "Roman
Catholic". From a procedural perspective, I think it is inappropriate to discuss the naming of this particular template in
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said, we are discussing this specific template. I am happy to learn and be educated about the organisations of my fellow
Christians. I am currently unaware of the distinctions between Roman, Latin, Eastern and Orthodox, just as you might be unaware of the intricacies of Calvinist, Reformed,
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should be invited to participate, where one would expect to find greater awareness of the specific nature of
Catholicism (Roman or otherwise) of each diocese etc. I assume other national WikiProjects would also wish to be aware of the discussion for similar reasons.
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Synods got the denomination name in their titles too. Without any reference point of how many "non-Roman/Latin" Catholic churches/dioceses/bishops/whatever that there might be in
Australia, it is clearly appropriate to name articles that
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with the geographical boundaries of the Roman
Catholic Archdiocese but are not part of that Roman Catholic archidiocese and do not accept the authority of its archibishop. There is also St Mary's in Exile at South Brisbane led by
758:. The diocese and subsequent archdiocese is and has always been Roman Catholic; its bishops and archbishops have also been Roman Catholic. There are other Catholic chuches in Brisbane which are not Roman Catholic; there is the
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isolation of the many articles, templates etc which have been renamed by Chicbyaccident in the absence of any consensus. I think the issue should be discussed and agreed in the affected projects more generally, that is,
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be misleading with sufficient precision to avoid that confusion. Hence if it is necessary to say "Catholic", and non-Romans are not included, then the article/template should be titled "Roman Catholic".
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are you able to point us at a global, agreed consensus that Roman Catholic Archdioceses should not have the word "Roman" in their article or template names? At the moment, as
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this very template in its main template category. For the record, yes there are denominations that consider themselves Catholic, including Protestant:
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should be the basis of any mass renaming of articles etc. Chicbyaccident's claim of Consistency is to that user's own mass edits and not any consensus.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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starting with this template on a one-at-a-time basis on procedural grounds. The template name should match its lead article currently at
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Catholicism/Archive 2016#Renaming of Australian articles from "Roman Catholic ...." to "Catholic ...."
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and the rest of the MOS apply to article pages. The names of templates are irrelevant as they don't show up in articles. The
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Use "Roman Catholic" where that is the intent. The simple "central point of reference" I choose is the first sentence of the
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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fields that show up in the navboxes, however, should be MOS compliant; they can be fixed without any moves.
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My deeper reading will start with an attempt to understand how we have two articles that start "The
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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today. However, it is currently the only one named as such, and that would be problematic per
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Presbyterian and Methodism and the ways they have developed over centuries and places. --
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My objection to the specific renaming of this template is as follows. As the template's
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Catholicism#Renaming of "Roman Catholic" to "Catholic"
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Category:Roman Catholic dioceses and prelatures established in the 19th century
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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use the name that the diocese calls itself, which here is Roman Catholic.
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project talk page. This template is a navbox for the Archibishops of the
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and while we're at it, consistency with hyphenated "Pre-Reformation".
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OK, I need to do some more reading for the general case, but still
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and Brisbane is in Australia. We are not discussing the article
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In April 2017, it was proposed that this template be
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Template talk:Roman Catholic Archbishops of Brisbane
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1036:
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1004:Latin Church
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853:
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824:churches in
801:
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665:Yashovardhan
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237:project page
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128:project page
113:
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51:WikiProjects
40:
1099:move review
1071:move review
1023:Scott Davis
948:(including
928:Scott Davis
859:Scott Davis
656:as opposed
645:move review
510:Saint Mungo
481:Peer review
362:Collaborate
242:Catholicism
187:Catholicism
1714:Categories
1662:per nom.--
436:Ensoulment
1646:Elizium23
1638:Elizium23
828:with the
826:communion
764:locations
654:Not moved
354:talk page
352:(see the
133:Australia
120:Australia
70:Australia
1689:Dicklyon
1681:MOS:CAPS
1664:Ortizesp
1126:contribs
830:Holy See
376:Copyedit
75:Brisbane
41:template
1677:Comment
1660:Support
751:history
395:Angelus
344:Cleanup
278:history
1108:moved.
1037:Oppose
984:oppose
792:Oppose
528:Watch
506:Bishop
492:Verify
475:Update
389:Expand
326:Assess
47:scale.
1685:Title
923:Kerry
902:Kerry
854:could
818:Latin
806:group
804:is a
777:Kerry
689:moved
617:moved
603:from
601:moved
569:moved
524:Other
457:Stubs
443:Photo
288:purge
283:watch
39:This
1693:talk
1668:talk
1650:talk
1642:talk
1122:talk
1118:Elli
1047:talk
994:and
974:talk
906:talk
884:talk
820:and
781:talk
705:talk
669:talk
615:was
462:see
448:see
426:NPOV
331:see
317:see
273:edit
122:and
1063:.
964:as
958:sic
952:),
607:to
571:to
1716::
1695:)
1679:–
1670:)
1652:)
1632:–
1625:→
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1128:)
1124:|
1091:.
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956:-
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908:)
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857:--
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671:)
637:.
516:;
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73::
1691:(
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904:(
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667:(
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658:(
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460::
446::
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392::
379::
365::
356:)
347::
329::
315::
239:.
166:.
130:.
53::
20:)
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