1309:, for all to see. There is nothing odd about it! They did not even want the Dutch flag to be shown in the box, because Laura herself was upset with the Dutch government and media, and wanted nothing further to do with the Netherlands. We compromised by allowing both flags to be shown (NZ and NED). The German flag never came into the discussion. Let's not drag that one in for no reason, as Laura herself never promoted her German origins, while she did so for both the Dutch and New Zealand national flags, at different times during the voyage. Photos are provided for both these instances in this article, as references, in case you missed it. --
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editorial control. As far as I can tell it's a blog set up by someone who appears to disagree with the WSSRC decision to stop counting youth records - certainly there is nothing to reveal expertise or official recognition in regard to the matter. In terms of errors, it deliberately fails to distinguish between with stops and without, (regarding "with stops" as more dangerous - a very odd claim), misses significant figures on the list of record holders (including Jesse Martin), and includes odd choices for who to add. -
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703:, it suggests the general meaning, and will be read so. On the other hand, if WSSRC has a clear definition, let's put it here. Wiki has good ref-options. (Probably, it will interfere with the "noinclude"-status of the references. Why not include?). Proposal: check for the WSSRC explanation, and include the references in the template.
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references to this article, where her supposed manager whines on her behalf over a lack of support from NZ. Apparently NZ were expected to embrace her as a Kiwi. I'm also not sure about wikipedia policy regarding influence over the content of articles from interested parties, but I would imagine that it would be frowned upon.
1369:
My comments were not in fact about Dekker's behaviour, not directly anyway, they were related to the supposed conversation you had with a family member. The one in which this alleged family member refers to the Dutch flag as "this stupid dutch vlag". This does not reflect particularly well on Dekker,
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This table is a summary listing. As per the discussion above, I removed the records from this table, which had grown to include information about who could have had a record, who did have a record, who used to have a record, and various different records. And now it's growing to include websites and
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There are a number of terms here that would not be familiar to those who don't follow sailing, and other parameters of the journeys that do not stand alone on this page. However, they are all defined and clarified by the WSSRC reference. Perhaps the WSSRC reference should be highlighted more, but I
1323:
having read your alleged conversation with a family member, I can only say that things appear even more bizarre that I first thought. If it is indeed genuine, then it certainly doesn't help Dekker's cause. In fact it makes her look rather petulant, it has to be said. As does the article cited in the
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Agree with removing mention of records in the lead-this template was never meant to be a league table, just a simple list. Agree also what Bilby said above re worldsailingrecords.com. WSSRC and
Guinness are the only two RSs I can think of and if records must be mentioned, only those from these two
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Their claim has been in this article for a while and the edit by
Trivial200 was to reflect the change they made from Michael Perham to Jessica Watson (youngest solo without distinction for nonstop unassisted). I'm guessing you just didn't notice, but your edit put their claim back on Michael Perham
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The problem is that I don't regard World
Sailing records as a reliable source. They make a number of significant mistakes, have no contact details (there's an email form, but no email address and no other contact details), no names or qualifications of anyone involved, and no mention of any level of
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Assuming the sentence "Currently Mike Perham holds the World
Sailing Speed Record Council (WSSRC) over-all record for youngest solo circumnavigation" (1st sentence in the 'Youth solo sailing circumnavigations' section) is valid, we need an explanation of why Perham's name doesn't appear on the WSSRC
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I created this template taking content from various youngest circumnavigator pages so that there would be a consistant section in each of the several entries that are currently active. It gives us one place to update as these events progress and should continue to provide consistent information for
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Records are only part of the issue. The
Youngest Solo Circumnavigators web site (as it belongs to no organisation and lists no affiliation it's just a web site) is using a quite different definition of circumnavigation than the WSSRC. Anyway, Knowledge (XXG) shouldn't use an odd web site that lists
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hmm, this seems a little odd, if you don't mind me saying. Could you be more specific on who it was that requested the NZ flag be included? I would have thought the use of a flag was to signify nationality. In which case the inclusion of a German one would seem appropriate, whether it was flown or
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Several people (maybe the same one, under different names, i.e. sockpuppets) have tried to include the German flag under the name of Laura Dekker. First, there was only a Dutch flag in that box, because that was the flag she flew on her boat upon departure in
January 2011 (see reference included).
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A concern was expressed to me that these are not "official records" any more (as reported on this entry). IMO, that doesn't change the fact that this is valid information. They may not be recognized by any official organization, but they are still sailing records. These are real journeys by real
1204:(ref section 26.1.a). Regarding the current youngest circumnavigator Jessica Watson, she didn't complete the distance required by the WSSRC. Not that it matters, as she didn't file a form of notice of intention to attempt to the WSSRC before she started. It's sort of comparing apples and oranges.
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is not allowed. Also, I was expressing my opinion in a discussion that was open to all, and I did not see you participating there, so what's your complaint? A Talk Page is different from the article itself. The purpose of a discussion is for all to express their points of view, so that the issue
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passport. The German flag was never flown on the entire voyage. Furthermore, her German mother was the person most opposed to Laura's solo attempt in the first place, and only now has shown any interest to join Laura, when she finally completed the circumnavigation." Hardly NPOV I have to say.
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Theodore, you should have noticed from my talk with the "relative" of Laura that he/she was pointing me to a fact about Laura's voyage that was already being reported in the media. I would not have accepted this person's input without checking for verifiability, which I did. Now the media have
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My concern is that there appears to be some efforts to emphasize Dekker's NZ origins, while dismiss her German connection. From the Laura Dekker talk page we find this rationale "The German nationality has never played a role in Laura's life, besides the fact that she happens to have a German
1114:
Yes, I definitely stuffed up there. :) I should have been more careful. Anyway, I'm inclined to suggest we just don't make any claim per
Jessica Watson for or against possessing a record in the list, unless an official body (presumably Guinness) makes a determination. It doesn't seem overly
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been used by Laura Dekker at any time. She holds a German passport, but that is not relevant here as we are only showing the flags that were flown by the sailor on their journey around the world. There is no evidence from any photo that she flew the flag of
Germany on her boat, so please
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Trivial200 made an edit to reflect this (in good faith) and Bilby reverted it (in good faith). This template originally documented the record shown on worldsailingrecords.com, Trivial200 changed this article to reflect the change on worldsailingrecords.com. I am restoring that edit.
1343:. This is not frowned on by Knowledge (XXG). Furthermore, as a Wiki editor, your personal opinion that Laura's behavior is "petulant" has no bearing on this article, unless one or more reliable third-party sources can be found that express the same viewpoint. For more on this, see
1145:
Sorry again - I should have read things properly. I've spent all morning reading up on Robin Lee Graham, and should have been more careful with reading here (btw, his story is fascinating, and a good reason as to why this template is so useful). Yes, that might be a good option. -
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Should there be any introduction? To say that Jesse Martin hold current WSSRC unassisted record takes away from every one else. I mean, why not say that Mike Perham holds current
Guinness youngest record, instead? What I'm getting at is its unfair to put any ONE person on the
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books they have. I appreciate the good-faith work trying to add information to the table, but all of this information should be included in the main article of each sailor, which is directly linked in this table. Let's keep this table simple and to the point. Thanks. (
1063:. We used worldsailingrecords.com as a reliable source when creating this article, and have used it ever since as one of our sources to fill out and document this table. Since they are an established reliable source on this topic, we should include their stance on this.
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I removed anonymous addition of
Langley. See above. I still don't see that he has done much more than create a web site, and he hasn't edited his misleading statements that he is the youngest. Also see more discussion with regards to credibility on the
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I'm thinking that each sailors attempt should include: name, country of citizenship, dates and distances of travel, age of sailor at finish (start?), yacht name, some yacht specs. More? I wonder if a nice looking table would be a better presentation.
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wouldn't you agree? It certainly does put in question her motivation to "come out for New Zealand". This family member also claims that Dekker is originally from New Zealand. This is not correct. She may have been born in NZ, but she is not from NZ.
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Links to WP articles, when the words appear in blue. (Last I heard, WP policy on this is that the first mention of a term/name/whatever should have the internal link, i.e. double square brackets in code, and subsequent ones shouldn't.) See also
593:, both currently underway, are younger. In his blog he states his voyage will be unique because he will be heading to the west instead of to the east. He does not yet own a boat and I failed to find any news coverage of him. He does not meet
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Many comments and edits here argue about "the record" but in fact there is no one record. Guiness, WSSRC, and others award "records". Or rather, they no longer award records specifically to the "youngest" circumnavigator.
746:
That quote is incomplete: the sentence starts with "On the other hand, ...", so it introduces a tradeoff, not a singular judgement. And above that, the whole section is more clarifying. Anyway, I did not propose to "define
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If you start sailing one day and finish the next, you've been sailing for two days. Correct? Our formula would say one. Watson's manager says today is day 200; the table says 199. Shall we just add 1 to the formula?
585:, who states on his home page "I am Ryan Langley, a 17 year-old sailor currently preparing for a nonstop sailing voyage around the world! A voyage like this has never been attempted by someone my age before." Both
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Note that I did take out the word "record" in my edit of that claim. Since neither WSSRC nor Guinness is awarding records anymore, perhaps remove all mention of records and just let the numbers convey the story?
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Disagree. Some would argue that a true circumnavigation required sailing through an antipodal point: Martin and Dicks went out of their way to do this to be eligible to claim the record without dispute (see
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That discussion at Laura's Talk Page had nothing to do with the flag issue here. It was related to someone trying to place her German national connections into the lede of her article, which as you can see
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Then we allowed someone to place the New Zealand flag after a member of her own family requested it, and we saw evidence from a photo (included as a reference) that indeed she was now flying the NZ flag.
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Yes. And as long as we're listing incomplete journeys (JW/AS), DD should be there-who knows if they'll complete it or need assistance? Heading the table "attempts" gives some latitude (no pun intended).
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I added David Dicks to this table, but only after great hesitation. Should this be removed? What are the boundaries of what should be covered in this table? Solo? Unassisted? Non-stop? Age? (
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under discussion can be resolved for the article itself. In this case, my personal opinion was not even a factor in the matter, since the rules of Knowledge (XXG) were decisive in this matter. --
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further confirmed this fact of two flags being flown at different times in the voyage. I have now added another reference to explain the use of the New Zealand flag, along with the Dutch flag at
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The term "unassisted" should be explained. E.g. Jessica Watson does have assistance from the land via telecom, so the word is not used correctly. Or should be removed. -
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I think Tania Aebi should be removed since her circumnavigation wasn't entirely solo. We could be on a slippery slope otherwise. Other people's opinions on this? (
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lists no organisation of affiliation. To use it as a reference seems odd. In comparison, the WSSRC was established by the International Sailing Federation.
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An other track we could follow: make it into a block-style template (with the fold/unfold option etc). This semi-article-makeup is confusing, innit? -
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Is there a way to get rid of the redundant internal links (i.e. at the moment the ones in the table on Jessica Watson & Jesse Martin)? Thanks. --
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Thanks SEC. I'll try to tweak it a bit more. The fact that the sources or authorities don't seem to agree with each other makes it confusing.--
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But any (potentially contentious) claims made on Knowledge (XXG) need some kind of authoritative citation(s) or reference(s) (see
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I was just thinking the same. A table would be better here IMHO. Also there's several precedents about not transcluding text. –
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I would like to include those 21 years old. Partly because I would like to include Tania Aebi who was 21 years and a few days. --
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important to include mention of what body/group authorises said record (e.g. WSSRC, Guinness, etc) and provide a citation.--
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If a non-sailor (or any reader) is unfamiliar with the specs of 'unassisted', it is our task here at Wikipewia to clarify
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The comments by Laura's so-called relative are not in the article. I cannot speak for him/her. So what's your point? --
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as it was originally. If the source is not reliable, then I'd say the claim should probably be removed entirely. (
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Note that this was discussed below, and mentions of any records on this page were removed as per that discussion. (
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and only in the comments block. (apologies, I've been doing some watchlist pruning and this somehow dropped off) –
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website. (I.e. if it has to do with WSSRC's discontinuation of the record category, this needs to be explained.)--
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Note that he completed over age 21. Maybe we should cut off at age 21? Brian bj Caldwell completed at age 20. (
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important, as the achievement was impressive whether it was a record or not. Inelegant, but it may work best. -
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on several counts, so I don't think he belongs on this entry yet. But we might keep an eye on his progress. (
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731:: "an article that defines every term, or every symbol, may be so cluttered that no one can read it." (
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I don't know of any way to do that. I also don't think duplicate links appearing is a major issue. –
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people that are newsworthy and noteworthy and thus I feel they are valid Knowledge (XXG) entries. (
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term". The definition of "unassisted" as used here is hidden from the reader, which is not good. -
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The WSSRC seems to only have a youngest non-stop record, and Mike did not sail non-stop. --
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I corrected the paragraph, but it could still stand a bit of editing. Thanks, TyrS. (
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When mentioning records (i.e. who holds what sailing record) in this template, it's
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Could be because WSSRC require a significant fee to be paid to recognize a record
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don't think it would serve readers to start duplicating information from there. (
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in the references rather than bare URLs. I have cleaned up the references using
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There are no references to the site in the article. This is a discussion page. (
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Worldsailingrecords.com changed their site to now list Jessica Watson as the
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The conversation I had with a member of Laura's family is at my Talk Page:
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1231:: "... circumnavigation without going through Suez or Panama Canals". –
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Regarding worldsailingrecords.com, they have an enitirey different
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I think that is an editing error on my part. It is recorded here
92:, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of
250:). (Otherwise Knowledge (XXG) undermines its own reliability.)--
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This is a great template. However, it would be enhanced by the
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which I propose as guidelines for what qualifies on here. (
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all. Hope this helps, feel free to comment or improve! (
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This article has not yet been rated on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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but I don't find it on the WSSRC site. Good catch. (
104:, where you can join the project and see a list of
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18:Template talk:Youth solo sailing circumnavigations
1307:User_talk:Skol_fir/Archive_5#Laura_Dekker_.282.29
955:Not sure what you mean by "internal links"? (
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1341:List of youth solo sailing circumnavigations
84:List of youth solo sailing circumnavigations
525:no owner or affiliations as a reference.
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1303:User_talk:Skol_fir/Archive_5#Laura_Dekker
1355:. That is how Knowledge (XXG) works. --
828:M Perham record absent on WSSRC website
209:! This makes it much more readable. (
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205:Great job with the table format,
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398:) about a 80 nm infringement. –
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102:project page
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1256:stop adding
973:WP:OVERLINK
850:—Preceding
818:fergetit. –
528:—Preceding
98:participate
1452:Categories
1413:Theodore D
1372:Theodore D
1326:Theodore D
1281:Theodore D
1034:Trivial200
435:References
106:open tasks
783:, namely
391:Lionheart
1433:Skol fir
1397:Skol fir
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852:unsigned
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542:contribs
530:unsigned
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312:Moondyne
225:Validity
207:Moondyne
197:Moondyne
153:Template
693:somehow
286:Should
111:Sailing
94:Sailing
66:Sailing
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1010:really
753:DePiep
709:DePiep
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1279:not.
1251:never
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1183:SEC
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918:BIL
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791:. —
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701:now
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617:. (
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468:. (
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352:BIL
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130:???
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