Knowledge (XXG)

:Reliability of GNIS data - Knowledge (XXG)

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bulk of GNIS entries do not clearly distinguish between locale-type features and cities/towns/villages/hamlets, many of these were incorrectly transcribed as "populated places", a label that is supposed to apply to "... a named community with a permanent human population, usually not incorporated and with no legal boundaries, ranging from rural clustered buildings to large cities and every size in between." That's right: Many of our "populated place" articles are only labelled as such because an employee poring over a map missed a subtle difference in typeface.
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mountains, lakes and ponds or rivers and creeks. As editors we need to be aware of the purpose and shortcomings of GNIS, using it as a resource where it excels (name and coordinates) while relying on other sources for notability and feature type. After all, our research and editorial discretion is what distinguishes Knowledge (XXG) from machine-generated gazeteers such as
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were sometimes misread and sometimes bore name labels on shore which could not be reconciled with other maps. Promotional maps tend to list non-notable subdivisions; other sources report 4th class post offices, which were typically just a place in a store or railroad station or even a private residence where people could come to post and pick up their mail.
340:"An entry with Feature Class = Populated Place represents a named community with a permanent human population, usually not incorporated and with no legal boundaries, ranging from rural clustered buildings to large cities and every size in between. The boundaries of most communities classified as Populated Place are subjective and cannot be determined." 35: 526:, to mark the boundaries between properties. Many (but not all) "corners" that have survived on maps that appear at intersections and boundaries are not actually the populated places at all, but rather the marker trees, usually named after the property owner of the property that they primarily stood on, that are 536:(Interesting factoids: It was expressly illegal under federal law and under state law in states such as West Virginia to remove a corner tree back in the 19th century; and one important point of West Virginian law was whether one could take the word of a dead person about which tree was a marker tree.) 710:
As with the place names books, quality is variable, and those from around 1900 tend to be a bit gushing in their praises of the forefathers and heavy on the anecdotes. That said, their age (typically with a few decades of the foundation of the places, at least outside the east coast) and attention to
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of a place, the "feature class" labels do not carry the same official standing. They're simply used for "efficient data search and retrieval purposes" and "have no status as standards". In fact, GNIS specifically does not involve itself in such geographic minutiae as the differences between hills and
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journal, as well as items copied from larger scale topographic maps. One can readily deduce that these entries are not reflected in the small-scale topographic maps, which already adds an element of doubt; in the case of the nautical charts, which can be verified online, we have found that the charts
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Since GNIS staff has been unable to maintain Domestic administrative names for quite some time (since October 1, 2014), these records will be archived from GNIS database and will longer be available through the GNIS search application. The following feature classes will be archived: Airport, Bridge,
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Queens, and the USGS employee who added the location to the database failed to recognize the subtle difference in spacing which was used to distinguish a train station from a community on the topo map. This particular error doesn't seem to have been repeated by Knowledge (XXG) since we already had a
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a human settlement at a given location, but in many cases it's been found that the place name has only been used in conjunction with a railroad siding, ranch, windmill or other feature. For example, Haberman, NY was the location of a train station built to serve the Haberman Manufacturing Company in
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Each place is assigned an official name and a "feature class" such as Park, School, Dam, Populated Place or Locale. Locale is meant to encompass miscellaneous human-made features such as battlefields, campgrounds, farms, railroad sidings, windmills, etc. However, since the topo maps that provide the
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information. Although this type of coverage is sometimes presented as evidence of notability, they don't meet our "significant coverage" requirement since they're simply copied from another source by an automated program. Knowledge (XXG) also forms a link in this chain of errors: When we describe a
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Many websites use GNIS for automated location data. When you search for real estate listings, store locations or weather reports, the name is used to mark a point on a map and return the requested information. The source isn't saying that the location is notable, probably doesn't do business there
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In many states people took it upon themselves to identify the origins of the names of places within the state. These vary in quality but have often helped to clarify matters by giving a more specific characterization of the places in question. We have found these used as GNIS sources, often quite
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GNIS itself has been found to propagate questionable information from other sources. Most entries were taken from USGS topographic maps at the smallest scale (1:24000 or 1:25000), but we have also found entries copied from NOAA navigational charts, from Forest Service maps, from promotional maps,
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Knowledge (XXG) is a trusted source that many organizations rely on. For example, some of these places appear on Google Maps with descriptions such as "Jones Windmill is an unincorporated community in Smith County", even though the "unincorporated community" designation has never appeared in a
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Knowledge (XXG) wants the centres of towns and cities. In Payne's own word in the USGS report on GNIS phase 1, the selection of a coördinate for a big town or city is "subjective", and the GNIS rule was, in contrast, to pick a prominent civic feature (town hall, main intersection, main public
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books for a particular locality. Arcadia books are not the be-all-and-end-all, but they do point the way and are generally the results of local historians already having done for us the poring over old maps, records, and photographs. Arcadia (and other local history) books helped sort out
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Springs, California" articles, once we found a book that documented the histories of the springs in California; now mainly done, with a few articles still requiring more detailed attention, because the documentation was just a mention or it wasn't in the book at all or some other
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Knowledge (XXG) doesn't have a specific definition of what qualifies as a "legally recognized populated place", but repeated discussions have concluded that simply being listed in a government database or appearing on a map does not meet the
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reliable source - it was applied by a Knowledge (XXG) editor, based on their own interpretation of an erroneous "populated place" label. When we keep these stubs, we play an active role in creating and propagating false information.
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These are useful for telling whether an "unincorporated community" that is just a dot nowadays is a historical post-town/post-village or only a post office; that then might be found in local county/state histories.
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is the official repository for place names in the United States, with a database of over 2 million natural and man-made features. Entries are compiled from sources such as atlases, gazetteers and topo maps.
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wiki, documenting some of the problems with the 2007 and 2009 mass imports of GNIS data into OpenStreetMap. Elsewhere on the OSM wiki are warnings about importing data from Wikidata and Knowledge (XXG).
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Knowledge (XXG) wants the mid-point of linear features. However, the rules for the GNIS data compilation were that the primary coördinate be the "mouth" of the feature and secondary coördinates be
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or another more accurate category. There are countless instances of discrepancies between the GNIS and print versions of the National Gazetteer, a publication of the
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for Jolly Dump, South Dakota shows that it was never anything more than a place where railroad cars were loaded and unloaded, yet a Google search brings up the
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with the same entries. This means that everything from small homesteads to railroad junctions to river crossings have been mislabeled as "populated places".
90:(GNIS) database. Unfortunately, a major flaw has been found in this source: GNIS has labeled many locations as "populated places" in error rather than as a 461: 264:
Further complicating this is that there were alternative forms of the database that substituted coördinate information from the National Map database.
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Building, Cemetery, Church, Dam, Forest, Harbor, Hospital, Mine, Oilfield, Park, Post Office, Reserve, School, Tower, Trail, Tunnel, and Well.
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While in phase 1 coördinates were read straight from the markers on the maps, in phase 2 coördinates were interpolated, using contour lines.
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It contains the advice or opinions of one or more Knowledge (XXG) contributors. This page is not an encyclopedia article, nor is it one of
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place as an "unincorporated community", a label that is often completely unsourced, Google Maps copies it as a description of the place.
106: 87: 961: 943: 616:). All of these were two-sentence GNIS-only stubs at the time of deletion nomination, all claiming "unincorporated community". 95: 370: 139: 593: 320:
If it's listed in GNIS, wouldn't that make it a "populated, legally recognized place" and therefore presumed notable per
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Knowledge (XXG) articles bulk-added in earlier years based upon these archived records now link to blank records on the
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Knowledge (XXG) has thousands of "populated place" stubs which were mass-created from the United States government's
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To illustrate the range of misidentified places, here is a list of AfD discussions of GNIS "populated places":
464:- an essay on how to apply notability standard to listings in gazetteer and gazetteer-like sources like GNIS. 750: 546: 126:
article based on a different source, but it did appear in other GNIS-derived sources such as Google Maps.
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Errors quickly propagate to other online sources which rely on GNIS for location data. Our
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Payne, Roger L. (1983). McEwen, Robert B.; Winter, Richard E.; Ramey, Benjamin S. (eds.).
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They're generally accurate, but like any reliable source they're susceptible to errors.
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But it returned 6,000 Google search results - There's even a FedEx office there!
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Manual of Instructions for the Survey of the Public Lands of the United States
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Geographical coordinates#Which coordinates to use
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George Washington's Eye: Landscape, Architecture, and Design at Mount Vernon
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Silver Hill, Charlton County, Georgia
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Aurant, California (2nd nomination)
237:. This is because Knowledge (XXG) has different rules to the GNIS rules. 898: 444:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Scoria Point Corner, North Dakota
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in Washington State, shown to be named after various railroad employees
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Saint Joseph Youth Camp, Arizona
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from Rand-McNally atlases, from books of place names, and even from a
921:. Geological Survey Circular. United States Geological Survey. 895-F. 408:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Willy Dick Crossing, Washington
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Road Junction Windmill, Arizona
891: 648: 446:- scenic overlook in a national park, listed as a "populated place" 334:, "populated place" is a designation for places that are generally 219:
https://edits.nationalmap.gov/apps/gaz-domestic/public/search/names
751:"The Brief, Baffling Life of an Accidental New York Neighborhood" 512:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Allen Shop Corner, Virginia
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Caldwell Pines, California
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as long as it indicated what (other) map(s) the feature crossed.
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https://www.usgs.gov/us-board-on-geographic-names/domestic-names
878:"The Admissibility of Hearsay Evidence in Boundary Disputes". 514:— An old surveying technique in centuries past was the use of 491:
Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject California/GNIS cleanup task force
440:- A deserted swamp with no buildings mislabeled as a community 257:
library, and so forth) rather than attempt a geometric centre.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/West Junction, Illinois
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A Golden Weed: Tobacco and Environment in the Piedmont South
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Acors Corner, Virginia
930:(6 ed.). Reston, Virginia: United States Geological Survey. 392:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Bormister, California
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Headquarters, Arizona
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Geographical coordinates/Linear
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Fish Pond, Kentucky
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Monkey Box, Florida
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Susie, Washington
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Geographic Names Information System: Data Users Guide
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Washington/GNIS cleanup
559:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Minnesota/GNIS cleanup 312:and most likely isn't even aware of its existence. 221:interface to the "gaz-domestic" (NGNDB) database. 659:. Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott & co. 1880. 542:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Kentucky/GNIS cleanup 150:with coordinates and elevation copied from GNIS, 229:While the GNIS entries are generally considered 199: 1016:Knowledge (XXG) essays about reliable sources 485:User:SportingFlyer/Arizona placenames cleanup 434:- Formerly a railroad station, now a railyard 422:– A literal pond, listed as a populated place 8: 276:Aren't government sources always reliable? 197:In 2017 the USGS made this announcement: 996:/Robert M. Rennick Manuscript Collection 632:Baldwin, Thomas; Thomas, Joseph (1855). 468:https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/USGS_GNIS 52:Knowledge (XXG)'s policies or guidelines 976:United States Bureau of Land Management 827: 721: 569:User:Hog Farm/Missouri attention needed 290:What's the harm in keeping these stubs? 117:It's difficult to prove that there was 359:– 15 industrial rail spurs within the 339: 839: 815: 803: 733:"Principles, Policies and Procedures" 727: 725: 462:WP:Knowledge (XXG) is not a gazetteer 7: 499:— a effort to deal with all of the " 487:— includes a list of river crossings 180:Although GNIS provides the official 915:Geographic Names Information System 685:Lippincott's gazetteer of the world 657:Lippincott's gazetteer of the world 107:Geographic Names Information System 88:Geographic Names Information System 991:/Ramsay Place-Name Card Collection 749:Schultz, Isaac (15 October 2019). 634:Lippincott's pronouncing gazetteer 533:George Washington knew about this. 400:– A literal box in the marshes of 56:thoroughly vetted by the community 25: 851: 782:. United States Geological Survey 636:. Philadelphia: J.B. Lippincott. 193:Feature classes abandoned in 2014 711:detail can help resolve matters. 369:– The headquarters building for 142:Facebook page, a list of nearby 33: 27:Essay on editing Knowledge (XXG) 974:. Technical bulletins. Vol. 6. 338:legally defined or recognized: 780:U.S. Board on Geographic Names 371:Petrified Forest National Park 1: 594:Escalle, Larkspur, California 394:– Numerous individual ranches 140:"Things to do in Jolly Dump" 665:loc.gdc/scd0001.00193145826 642:loc.gdc/gdclccn.tmp96023479 598:Salminas Resort, California 1032: 886:(3): 255–257. March 1909. 610:Ettawa Springs, California 63: 939:. Yale University Press. 935:Swanson, Drew A. (2014). 148:"Populated Place Profile" 926:Payne, Roger L. (1985). 247:any point on the feature 225:Reliability of locations 596:; helped identify what 530:the populated places. 404:, listed as a community 1011:Knowledge (XXG) essays 953:Manca, Joseph (2012). 575:Books to check against 551:from their names alone 547:User:Hog Farm/Kentucky 379:– A railroad junction 215: 497:User:Hog Farm/springs 160:daylight savings time 130:Propagation of errors 54:, as it has not been 698:Books of place names 553:might be problematic 880:Columbia Law Review 707:Old local histories 493:, projects include 388:– Several windmills 18:User:Dlthewave/GNIS 868:, 8th Leigh. 697. 586:Robert, California 581:Arcadia Publishing 579:There are usually 428:– a stand of trees 410:– A river crossing 176:Official standards 865:Harriman v. Brown 330:According to the 84: 83: 16:(Redirected from 1023: 979: 967: 949: 931: 922: 920: 903: 902: 875: 869: 867: 861: 855: 849: 843: 837: 831: 825: 819: 813: 807: 801: 792: 791: 789: 787: 772: 766: 765: 763: 761: 746: 740: 739: 737: 729: 689:Internet Archive 682: 652: 549:— articles that 535: 381:west of the city 213: 187:Hometown Locator 156:weather forecast 124:Haberman station 76: 37: 36: 30: 21: 1031: 1030: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1001: 1000: 987: 982: 970: 964: 952: 946: 934: 925: 918: 911: 907: 906: 892:10.2307/1109094 877: 876: 872: 863: 862: 858: 850: 846: 838: 834: 826: 822: 814: 810: 802: 795: 785: 783: 774: 773: 769: 759: 757: 748: 747: 743: 735: 731: 730: 723: 718: 655: 631: 577: 531: 481: 479:Cleanup efforts 453: 451:Further reading 416:– A summer camp 402:Lake Okeechobee 350: 270: 227: 214: 209: 195: 178: 132: 104: 102:Feature classes 80: 79: 72: 68: 60: 59: 34: 28: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 1029: 1027: 1019: 1018: 1013: 1003: 1002: 999: 998: 993: 986: 983: 981: 980: 968: 962: 950: 944: 932: 923: 908: 905: 904: 870: 856: 844: 842:, pp. 161–162. 832: 820: 808: 793: 767: 741: 720: 719: 717: 714: 713: 712: 708: 704: 703: 699: 695: 694: 693: 692: 653: 621: 614:AfD discussion 602:AfD discussion 590:AfD discussion 576: 573: 572: 571: 566: 561: 556: 555: 554: 539: 538: 537: 505: 488: 480: 477: 476: 475: 465: 459: 452: 449: 448: 447: 441: 435: 429: 423: 417: 411: 405: 395: 389: 383: 374: 364: 349: 346: 345: 344: 325: 314: 313: 306: 299: 298: 291: 284: 283: 277: 269: 266: 262: 261: 258: 250: 226: 223: 207: 194: 191: 177: 174: 131: 128: 103: 100: 82: 81: 78: 77: 69: 64: 61: 49: 48: 40: 38: 26: 24: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1028: 1017: 1014: 1012: 1009: 1008: 1006: 997: 994: 992: 989: 988: 984: 977: 973: 969: 965: 963:9781421405612 960: 957:. JHU Press. 956: 951: 947: 945:9780300191165 942: 938: 933: 929: 924: 917: 916: 910: 909: 900: 897: 893: 889: 885: 881: 874: 871: 866: 860: 857: 853: 848: 845: 841: 836: 833: 829: 824: 821: 817: 812: 809: 805: 800: 798: 794: 781: 777: 771: 768: 756: 755:Atlas Obscura 752: 745: 742: 734: 728: 726: 722: 715: 709: 706: 705: 700: 697: 696: 690: 686: 680: 677: 673: 670: 666: 662: 658: 654: 650: 647: 643: 639: 635: 630: 629: 627: 622: 619: 618: 617: 615: 611: 608:the likes of 607: 603: 599: 595: 591: 587: 582: 574: 570: 567: 565: 562: 560: 557: 552: 548: 545: 544: 543: 540: 534: 529: 525: 521: 517: 513: 509: 506: 502: 498: 495: 494: 492: 489: 486: 483: 482: 478: 473: 472:OpenStreetMap 469: 466: 463: 460: 458: 455: 454: 450: 445: 442: 439: 436: 433: 430: 427: 424: 421: 418: 415: 412: 409: 406: 403: 399: 396: 393: 390: 387: 384: 382: 378: 375: 372: 368: 365: 362: 358: 355: 354: 353: 348:Relevant AfDs 347: 341: 337: 333: 329: 326: 323: 319: 316: 315: 310: 307: 304: 301: 300: 295: 292: 289: 286: 285: 281: 278: 275: 272: 271: 267: 265: 259: 255: 251: 248: 244: 240: 239: 238: 236: 232: 224: 222: 220: 212: 206: 203: 202:Data Content: 198: 192: 190: 188: 183: 175: 173: 170: 164: 161: 157: 153: 152:nearby hotels 149: 146:locations, a 145: 141: 137: 129: 127: 125: 120: 115: 111: 108: 101: 99: 97: 93: 89: 75: 71: 70: 67: 62: 57: 53: 47: 45: 39: 32: 31: 19: 971: 954: 936: 927: 914: 883: 879: 873: 864: 859: 847: 835: 828:Swanson 2014 823: 811: 784:. Retrieved 779: 770: 758:. Retrieved 754: 744: 656: 633: 626:Lippincott's 625: 605: 578: 550: 527: 523: 520:corner trees 519: 518:, variously 516:marker trees 515: 500: 361:Hanford Site 351: 343:requirement. 335: 327: 317: 308: 302: 293: 287: 279: 273: 263: 246: 234: 230: 228: 216: 201: 200: 196: 181: 179: 165: 133: 118: 116: 112: 105: 85: 41: 776:"How Do I?" 649:tmp96023479 235:appropriate 42:This is an 1005:Categories 840:Manca 2012 816:Payne 1985 804:Payne 1983 716:References 620:Gazetteers 524:line trees 457:WP:GEOLAND 373:in Arizona 322:WP:GEOLAND 854:, p. 106. 830:, p. 195. 679:24447594M 501:Something 169:philately 985:See also 672:02002832 231:accurate 66:Shortcut 899:1109094 818:, p. 7. 806:, p. 5. 687:at the 606:against 528:between 470:at the 74:WP:GNIS 702:badly. 592:) and 504:reason 92:locale 919:(PDF) 896:JSTOR 852:USBLM 786:9 May 760:9 May 736:(PDF) 144:FedEx 119:never 44:essay 959:ISBN 941:ISBN 788:2020 762:2020 669:LCCN 646:LCCN 522:and 332:USGS 252:Per 241:Per 182:name 158:and 96:USGS 888:doi 661:hdl 638:hdl 336:not 268:FAQ 136:AfD 1007:: 894:. 882:. 796:^ 778:. 753:. 724:^ 676:OL 674:. 667:. 644:. 510:, 328:A: 318:Q: 309:A: 303:Q: 294:A: 288:Q: 280:A: 274:Q: 208:— 189:. 978:. 966:. 948:. 901:. 890:: 884:9 790:. 764:. 691:) 683:( 681:. 663:: 651:. 640:: 612:( 600:( 588:( 324:? 46:. 20:)

Index

User:Dlthewave/GNIS
essay
Knowledge (XXG)'s policies or guidelines
thoroughly vetted by the community
Shortcut
WP:GNIS
Geographic Names Information System
locale
USGS
Geographic Names Information System
Haberman station
AfD
"Things to do in Jolly Dump"
FedEx
"Populated Place Profile"
nearby hotels
weather forecast
daylight savings time
philately
Hometown Locator
https://www.usgs.gov/us-board-on-geographic-names/domestic-names
https://edits.nationalmap.gov/apps/gaz-domestic/public/search/names
Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Geographical coordinates/Linear
Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Geographical coordinates#Which coordinates to use
WP:GEOLAND
USGS
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Susie, Washington
Hanford Site
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Headquarters, Arizona
Petrified Forest National Park

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