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both the right and the left can easily take such statements out of context and blow them out of proportion in order to attack their political enemies. In most cases such incidents are not worthy of coverage on
Knowledge. I won't reply directly to what you say about the killing of children in Gaza, which is similar to the Israeli government's explanation. Just let me mention my own view of the general conflict. Israel has been responsible for systematic, large-scale violations of Palestinians' rights since the expulsion of many Palestinians from their homeland in the 1940s. Yet I don't see Israel as historically unique in this respect, and I don't find the justification for displacing Palestinians (that the region was the Biblical homeland of Jews in ancient times) to be any worse than the justification the US gave for barbarous treatment of the indigenous population ("manifest destiny" and the racist belief that "the only good Indian is a dead Indian"), or the justification the Spanish gave for doing likewise in South and Central America (bringing Christianity and "civilization"), or the justification South Africa gave for apartheid (white supremacy), or the justification Europeans gave for colonizing Africa (again bringing Christianity and "civilization"), etc. And I know that Israelis have some great scientific and other achievements to their credit (not just the best feta).
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targets of disruption. The main purpose is to prevent attempts to skew the discussion through off-wiki canvassing, sock-puppets, sudden appearance of special-purpose accounts and IPs who edit only on one topic, and other efforts to subvert the process. Another possible reason for EC-restrictions is that relatively inexperienced editors often do not understand certain
Knowledge policies and proceed to violate them. This isn't usually a big deal if they're editing pages that are not very controversial, like the page about their hometown or favorite football team. But if they enter a contentious area and stubbornly insist that they're right long after it's clear that the consensus of editors is against them, that causes a time sink for other editors and quite often sanctions against the new editor.
1041:. As a result, Gaza is overcrowded with children, but I still don't see any evidence that the Israeli military is trying to kill kids. What does seem to be happening is that Hamas is setting up their rocket launchers near schools and such in an effort to use these children as human shields. So by overlooking this situation, as well as through her earlier statements about American Jews, Omar doesn't really portray herself in a good light in my view. That's the source of my wariness towards her that you've detected. (Note that, by condemning Omar and Hamas, I am not necessarily saying that I agree with everything Israel has ever done; you can see evil within both groups because both groups are fundamentally
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language that you use about
Knowledge editors you disagree with. In our culture, word choices for women politicians are often less respectful than for male politicians. (Minor example: President Biden is typically called "President Biden" whereas Vice-President Harris is frequently called "Kamala" and almost never "Vice-President Harris"; and in earlier elections it was Trump, Pence, Obama, and Biden -- but Hillary.)
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793:, I am not going to revert you for the sole reason that right now there are other things in my life I need to be focusing on. But let the record state that you're not an admin, and I disagree with your reasoning because the RfC is related to Israel but not to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. See my post about this below, reproduced from ANI:
1034:, thank you for reaching out to me about this, it shows that you're trusting me to consider your thoughts carefully and I really appreciate that. Don't worry, I don't have any qualms with Omar's gender, only with her choices. From what I can tell, the situation in Gaza is that a) the Hamas government has a goal of conquering Israel and
1087:. Does that mean they're not responsible for what might have happened in 1948? I'm not sure. But like I said, I would need to read a lot more about the 1948 exodus before I could be confident about what happened back then. Anyway, it sounds like although we disagree on facts, we agree on values, which is more important.
1079:. My current views, which I'm not sure are correct, are that a lot of the people who left the region weren't expelled (although, like you said, a lot _were_), and part of reason the refugees weren't let in after the war is that the Palestinians were using scary genocidal rhetoric. It's also helpful to take the
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Yes, "pattern of statements" is a respectful wording. When people express outrage about human rights violations, they frequently make emotional rather than rational word choices. In the old days this was usually done in private with friends, but now it's often on social media. In our "cancel culture"
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because they had fewer than 500 edits. The purpose of extended-confirmed restrictions is not to insult anyone or to imply that opinions of new users are less valid than opinions of experienced users. Rather EC-restricted pages or topics are ones that are highly contentious and have at times been the
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HI Benevolent human, is this the conversation that explains your addressing the RfC procedural issues? It seems like NightHeron has pointed out again that you shouldn't be opening RfC's related to the Israel-Palestine conflict. Is there conversation elsewhere where editors agree you have standing to
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I have read your comments carefully. All I want to say is: a) I disagree with you decision and reasoning, b) right now, I don't have time to do anything other than register my disagreement. We can revisit this later, perhaps. Anyway, it was really nice of you to leave a note on my talk page to keep
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The consensus of editors, including the closing editor of your first RfC, is that ARBPIA does apply. You seemed to concede this by citing ARBPIA in your statement of the second RfC. There's no reason to discuss ARBPIA at ANI, which is mainly for editor-conduct issues. I have no intention of asking
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I could see why you would think that, I appreciate your outlining your thought process. Mine is that dual loyalty implies people doing nice things for Israel because they have dual loyalty for Israel, but the US has done a lot of nice things for Israel that have nothing to do with the
Palestinians
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In case you're no longer connected to, communicative with or controlling of your former alter ego, just a friendly notice that I noticed a butterfly fighting a hate machine with respect and dignity, and made a statement to the effect of absolutely loving how it goes, futile or not (which I hereby
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I understand. I read over the edit you linked to again and can confirm that it's not mine. Also, if you look at my userpage and contributes history you can see that I've also been doing other
Knowledge activities. I don't think I'll be getting involved in controversy more than a few times a year
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It may be a guideline, but it's one that violating can get you blocked. And, no, it does not make sense. Your personal disagreement with the comments of other editors does not mean you get to try to bring in editors you think will agree with your position. My own method to avoid canvassing is to
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Note that, per these sanctions, new and inexperienced editors are not allowed to participate in formal discussions. Given this, and given that there was rather strong opposition even at this time, I have given the RfC an early close, and firmly suggest that you try engaging in less controversial
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Hi! I appreciate the fact that you generally choose your words carefully and maintain a high level of respect and civility even during heated debates. In light of that, I was disappointed that you twice repeated "pattern of behavior" in reference to Ilhan Omar. She deserves the same respectful
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to be the one who determines what is "biased" and in which direction - it's bad to think of it that way. Since this is an ARBPIA matter, you might leave a pointer on the talk pages of all articles with an ARBPIA notice on them, for instance, which takes your own biases out of the equation.
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an edit by made by a bot which was removing junk added by an IP editor. Later, your revert was re-reverted (so that junk added by IP editor was removed). Every time you carry out an edit suggested by a bot, please take a second to actually validate that your edit is reasonable. Thank you,
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You started two RfCs in less than 2 weeks in violation of ARBPIA. The first time the violation was pointed out in the closing summary. The second time you obviously knew about the ARBPIA restriction, which is stated in the same section 5.B.1 that you linked to in your RfC statement:
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Your main contribution has been allegations of anti-Semitism against Ilhan Omar, while in your previous account (Pretzel
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As I have told you, I, being uninvolved in this specific matter until now, have determined that the topic in question is clearly within the scope of ARBPIA ("broadly construed" means "if in doubt, yes", and I have no doubts, especially not when there's a whole section
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1370:"not constructive"; it was obviously done in good faith. Please explain where needed, both in edit summary and in your note on their page, instead of treating the user like a vandal by posting a templated warning with Twinkle. Be benevolent. Thank you.
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You have shown interest in articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called
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apply. A consensus doesn't always require an RfC. If "the issue" refers to the subject of your 3 RfCs, all the recent discussions and RfCs have resulted in a consensus against including allegations of anti-semitism in the lead of
1045:.) That said, I see how the word "behavior" has a connotation of suggesting that she's a child, and I can avoid that word in the future. Would something like "pattern of statements" or "pattern of incidents" land better with you?
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Yes, I see the RfC is closed now. I think one of us (quite possibly me) is misunderstanding the circumstances under which one can/should appeal to ArbCom for clarifications on their decisions. I guess we'll find out soon.
1413:..? Since they didn't understand, they reasonably just re-added the musician they admire, while fixing the formatting. I hope they've read my explanation now. (IPs don't always find their own talkpage, but one can hope.)
1307:, yep, you found it, welcome to my talk page! In any case, to summarize, NightHeron said I needed 500 edits to open that RfC. Although I disagreed with the reasoning, I now have 500 edits, so there's no argument. Hurray!
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I think we're largely on the same page from a moral values standpoint. It's wrong to expel people form their homes. I would need to do a lot more reading before I can have an opinion that I can be certain of on the
1490:, thanks for the notice. My reading was it was a guideline, and in this specific situation, there was already a fairly biased set of editors looking at the RfC and this was balancing it out. Does that make sense?
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1532:, understood. So if I were to list at a roughly equal number of articles frequented by point with one type of bias, and articles frequented by people with the other type of bias, then we should be kosher?
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Got it, thank you. You're correct that the exception doesn't apply, that's my mistake. I don't think ARBPIA applies for the reasons I went into earlier, but I'll ask for a second opinion on ANI.
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Feel free to delete anything youd like on your user talk page. Do not feel free to selectively remove comments on an article talk page. Those are the only feelings of yours that interest me.
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We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
1511:(on the order of "A discussion which may be of interest to you can be found here", with a link) on the talk pages of all of the WikiProjects listed on article's talk page.
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If by "the issue" you mean the issue at ArbCom (namely, applicability of ARBPIA), then there certainly was a consensus. Noone else besides you argued that ARBPIA does
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since 1Â January. The backlog has fluctuated but remained in control, with a low of 52 tagged articles at the end of
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1038:, and b) in order to accomplish that, Hamas has been putting in place government incentives for women to have many, many children so they can "create a larger army"
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Sorry my attempt to be helpful was annoying instead. I appreciate the etiquette pointer - in the future, I'll suggest such changes on User talk pages instead.
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I'm still not sure if I agree, but as I am not extended confirmed, the point is moot. Anyway, thanks for bringing this potential issue to my attention.
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since it's so draining. Recall that I did other things for a few months after the AOC RfC. I thought Omar would be more clear-cut, but apparently not.
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and follow it exactly in the future. Any further examples of selective notification will be reported to admins for consideration of sanctions.
1741:. There's currently a request out to close the latest RfC, seeing as only 2 other editors have supported your proposal and 17 have opposed it.
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If so, I think you're right that I erred - I saw them removing formatting, but I think your interpretation is correct. Will try to do better.
761:. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
689:. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
634:. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
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Repeated violation of restrictions could be regarded as disruptive and result in sanctions. Please be more careful in the future. Thank you.
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Do not modify my comments again. If you feel Ive made a personal attack then report it, Mr 296 edits with this obviously first time account.
942:: Alas, you just made another personal attack, which makes me feel badly. Please stop making personal attacks, it makes me feel so unhappy.
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Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators
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You should really ask before making meaningful changes to somebody's user page. That is considered quite intrusive in the wiki realm.
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This exception does not apply to other internal project discussions such as AfDs, WikiProjects, RfCs, noticeboard discussions, etc.
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I don't see why you responded to my comment at ArbCom by referring me to a comment by TrueQuantum saying that they were insulted
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Hello and welcome to the June newsletter, our first newsletter of 2021, which is a brief update of Guild activities since
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Your RfC wording has been responded to and cannot be modified. Otherwise, all of those responses to it make no sense. –
312:. What template or bot did you use for this? I've tried adding the WikiProject to the ] template with no luck. Thanks!
86:, sure thing, no problem. If you ever want to chat, feel free to post to my talk page instead. Have an excellent day!
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normally serve a six-month term and are elected on an approval basis. Have your say and show support
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Alrighty, in lieu of that, is it okay if I collect instances in which I feel like you've violated
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Congrats! I saw "I am not extended confirmed" above and am now guessing you probably meant "I am
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The issue is that we never formed a consensus on the issue. No RfCs were allowed to complete.
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I asked because the IP added accusations of anti-Semitism to the article about
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implicitly reiterate). Best of luck in your future endeavours, as well. Politeness can solve
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This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect.
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This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect.
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This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect.
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of problems in this neverending textbook, but only if we treat it as honestly hard work!
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has been closed and archived. You may view a permalink of the clarification request
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Hello, Benevolent human/Archives/2021/June. Your question has been answered at the
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730:. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called
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On a previous account you used what looks like a template to announce an RFC at
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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That was my only edit to that page. I agree with you, sorry for my mistake.
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1215:, I will take your advice not to post on ANI! I asked at Teahouse instead.
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Please take a second to review edits suggested by bots before applying them
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Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Donald_Trump#User:Pretzel_butterfly_has_an_RFC
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To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from
2013:: Our June copy-editing blitz is underway and will conclude on 26 June.
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For a neutral pointer, I have been using { Rfc notice }, is that okay?
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Thank you. Yes, that's the one — did you revert more than one edit at
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recognition of the Golan
Heights annexation, Operation Nickel Grass
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imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
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imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
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opened on 16Â June and will conclude at the end of the month.
1980:. To unsubscribe, follow the link at the bottom of this box.
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at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).
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You might be misunderstanding the purpose of EC-restriction
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439:. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions!
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The clarification request you filed regarding the case
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So long as no one has yet responded to your comment.
854:me posted on this at least, I do appreciate that.
828:editor may close most of them – not just admins."
1836:? Did you have a registered account before then?
342:Knowledge:Requests_for_comment#Publicizing_an_RfC
1807:after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by
822:Knowledge:Closing_discussions#Closure_procedure
1645:: you may revise your own talk page comments,
537:You've just entered a mountain of shit on the
1036:killing everyone who is Jewish in that region
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1454:Your selective notifications for the RfC at
1081:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
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2178:Knowledge:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors
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437:GOCE January 2021 Backlog Elimination Drive
746:, when making edits related to the topic.
674:, when making edits related to the topic.
619:, when making edits related to the topic.
1918:Clarification request closed and archived
486:GOCE March 2021 Backlog Elimination Drive
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1803:Please note that all old questions are
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818:Ilhan_Omar#Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
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1392:, is this the edit you mean?
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993:23:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
967:22:50, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
952:22:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
929:21:31, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
579:A couple of special rules
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782:16:23, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
702:18:57, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
573:18:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
555:18:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
2017:Drive and blitz reports
1077:1948 Palestinian exodus
755:Arbitration Committee's
732:discretionary sanctions
683:Arbitration Committee's
660:discretionary sanctions
628:Arbitration Committee's
605:discretionary sanctions
368:I like the new you, too
227:An Invitation to Earth
224:Say Hello to the World
1973:
1797:Teahouse Q&A board
1792:
898:Thank you very much!!
880:It's Pastures of Eden
300:What template is this?
242:Looking Good Together
110:
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1955:Guild of Copy Editors
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1546:Again, that requires
1325:extended confirmed".
728:Arab–Israeli conflict
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42:of past discussions.
1957:June 2021 Newsletter
876:The best feta cheese
740:Knowledge's policies
668:Knowledge's policies
613:Knowledge's policies
531:The Special Barnstar
146:Knowledge Help pages
123:Hi Benevolent human!
1458:are a violation of
1327:Firefangledfeathers
1303:Firefangledfeathers
1287:Firefangledfeathers
1229:Good move. Thanks.
1111:Hi, I saw that you
516:A barnstar for you!
2145:, and from member
2142:Twofingered Typist
1974:
1821:remove this notice
1793:
914:Modifying comments
474:The Minor Barnstar
344:. The template is
270:Editing user pages
239:The Civility Code
111:
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1999:GOCE coordinators
1828:Previous accounts
1411:List of Nigerians
1368:List of Nigerians
1361:List of Nigerians
1113:recently reverted
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2094:full results
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2079:full results
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1858:No to both.
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2072:April Blitz
2057:March Drive
2028:52Â articles
1819:. (You can
1135:Anton.bersh
1118:Anton.bersh
563:Thank you!
82:Gandydancer
66:Gandydancer
36:This is an
2130:Miniapolis
2101:Other news
2010:June Blitz
1758:NightHeron
1743:NightHeron
1739:Ilhan Omar
1714:NightHeron
1698:NightHeron
1256:NightHeron
1231:NightHeron
1211:NightHeron
1196:NightHeron
1166:NightHeron
1062:NightHeron
1030:NightHeron
1014:NightHeron
1005:Ilhan Omar
885:NightHeron
826:uninvolved
539:Ilhan Omar
348:rfc notice
336:Yallahalla
316:YallAHalla
2118:Jonesey95
2087:May Drive
1465:carefully
1007:talk page
757:decision
742:, or the
736:sanctions
685:decision
670:, or the
664:sanctions
630:decision
615:, or the
609:sanctions
550:Nidhiki05
375:all kinds
217:Mission 7
210:Mission 6
203:Mission 5
196:Mission 4
189:Mission 3
182:Mission 2
175:Mission 1
2168:Sent by
2148:Reidgreg
2110:Requests
1805:archived
1667:Muboshgu
1651:Muboshgu
1505:place a
1415:Bishonen
1388:Bishonen
1372:Bishonen
1043:the same
981:WP:CIVIL
975:Nableezy
961:nableezy
938:Nableezy
923:nableezy
838:contribs
778:contribs
753:and the
718:It does
695:Bishonen
681:and the
650:It does
626:and the
594:It does
441:Reidgreg
250:Get Help
2136:Tenryuu
2124:Dhtwiki
1932:Dreamy
1155:Warning
1131:Sorry,
39:archive
502:apolis
308:. See
306:WP:45
16:<
2174:talk
2139:and
2003:here
1935:Jazz
1928:here
1904:talk
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807:talk
774:talk
759:here
699:tĂĄlk
687:here
632:here
569:talk
493:Mini
445:talk
398:talk
383:talk
358:talk
340:see
323:talk
290:talk
276:El_C
92:talk
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2180:at
1878:TFD
1838:TFD
1734:not
1549:you
1323:now
840:)
780:)
720:not
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545:Toa
165:UTC
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