1354:. The second example completely removed the extensive prose in the "In mathematics" section and replaced it with an inferior list, breaking many harvard links in the process. My intention with this article was to get it to GA standard. Although I haven't had time to edit it much recently, I was making progress and was intending to return to it. Other users at the numbers wikiproject agree that the manner in which the "cruft" is being removed is too hasty and needs to be done with a lot more care. Maybe I haven't communicated adequately at ANI but I am getting accused in edit summaries of "continued cruft-pushing brigading" which is an untrue personal attack. Thanks
1672:
1707:
1460:
652:, which in part converted some explicit thin spaces in mathematical typography to ordinary spaces, are not helpful. If another editor explicitly chose a size of space to stick into a formula, you should assume they did so for an intentional reason and not automatically second-guess that decision. Often regular spaces leave formulas written using plain wikimarkup (e.g. in
1501:
854:, actually is breaking the citation template, causing the string "&thinsp," to show up in the article. Even if it was working properly, a non-ASCII space would be polluting downstream data for citation consumers. (For example, journal web sites that list all Knowledge (XXG) references to papers on that paper's page.)
300:") wouldn't make sense. In that case, we probably don't need a link anyway, and fixing the typography is all that's needed. Sometimes having the name instead of the formula would make the article easier to read, so switching it out and making it a link would be an improvement; you'd have to use your judgement.
1232:, I saw that it was last updated in 2022, except the letter C. I have a proposal to make, I am ready to host the project on Cloud VPS of WikiTech, I know how to operate a Debian/Unix terminal, but I need some help regarding the parsing and uploading of that data onto the Typo Team's Subpages, as I am not
1067:. The first two digits are red, the third and fourth are green and the lasts two are blue. To keep the shades pale, I've been keeping between F0 and FF, with F8 halfway between. I don't worry about keeping the precise hue from the flag, because it's going to be much paler regardless. Here's a cheat sheet:
1620:, That's why in the draft you will tell me whether the sources are reliable or not, yes, I can make a draft of the article, it may take years to completely write the topic and with reliable sources, or it may also only take months, but tell me yes, I can make a draft in process or is that not possible?
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since those are generally a sign that someone is intentionally using a thin space in wikitext. (And it's nice that templates can have documentation to explain what they mean and why they are being used.) HTML entities are often automatically imported from other environments rather than being inserted
690:
with those removed renders correctly for me. Sometimes different operating systems and web browsers and fonts render characters like these in an overlapping way; I would consider that a bug in that stack which should be reported and fixed. But once that happens, we don't need to keep these characters
589:
Hebrew is written right to left, unlike
English which is written left to right. So the character following a Hebrew letter like Aleph will appear to its left rather than to its right. This causes a problem when the Hebrew letter is intended to be part of an English text rather than a Hebrew text. You
310:
Poking at the "Possible" list just now, I had a bit of trouble figuring out which articles the spell checker was complaining about. I put a note at the top explaining how to use the "insource://" trick, which should be sufficient until I can get those included in the report automatically (or we empty
1429:
If you were just venting to me that the broken
Harvard links were adding insult to injury, that's fine; hopefully it won't happen in a future trim if that's what consensus supports. If this editor makes another trim in the future and breaks Harvard links again, if you're going to take that as a sign
1282:
I know the late Rob Ball's 'Green Card' citizenship in the US to be a fact as I have an email, sent by Rob Ball to me, telling me his US citizenship status in answer to my request for information when I was editing the article about him. I don't know how to use that email as a source but would like
1052:
If there's already a "style" property, background gets added to the quoted value, separated from the other part with a ";". I started out by setting the background color on the row with the country name. Depending on how complicated the country is, sometimes the background color also needs to be set
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The version of Tensor with the full-sized spaces is definitely worse than the version with thin spaces, and it is clear why the thin spaces were originally chosen. If you feel like it you are welcome to rewrite the whole page using LaTeX instead, which looks better and has simpler markup, but please
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triplication, ending with clearing out the last of these to make it a redirect. It has all been undone and I don't have the inclination to pursue it to the bitter end, I just don't care that much. I can't see why the RTM that we have discussed would have any different result. If you want to go ahead
16:
Feel free to leave a note at the bottom of this page in the usual manner; I assume you'll be subscribed to the thread to get notified about replies. Just to keep things tidy, I generally only keep stuff on this page if it requires further action from me or you haven't read my reply yet, so check the
1386:
If breaking
Harvard links is one of your specific complaints, did you point out to the editor that broke them that this happened? I didn't see anything to that effect in your edit summary or on the article talk page. It could just be a polite, "Hi, I didn't necessarily agree with the removal of all
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only allows information that has been previously published, and specifically prohibits unpublished information. So I'm afraid citizenship status can't be verified by a personal email, but isn't that sort of thing public record? BTW, if you are personal friends or co-workers or family of the subject
1634:
You can always draft any text you wish. It would probably take digging up some more interesting sources or facts to support content worth adding to encyclopedia? I guess I'm not exactly sure what your motivation is, if you think the article is already complete, or what it is that you might dig up.
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already seems to have this topic covered pretty well; if there's anything more encyclopedic to add, I'd expand that instead. The whole psalm is so short, its article is probably not going to expand much. As I can tell, this is a one-off reference which is not all that important to the dogma of any
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If you are writing a new page, feel free to use either one. But please don't do automatic replacements of one for another (not sure if you were planning on it). At best it creates pointless watchlist spam. From what I can tell this kind change does not have (and should not have) the backing of any
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A high difficulty of editing can result from an accumulation of small difficulties, which new editors sometimes must confront all at once to make useful contributions. Much of the point of wikitext is to spare editors from having to learn HTML, though it's reasonable to expect deeply involved math
423:
That's right, for spell-checking purposes moss ignores capitalized words made of only letters, on the assumption they are proper nouns. (These problem formulas are actually pulled from a list of ignored but suspicious words.) Even when I stop doing that (because I want to verify the spellings of
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In terms of picking the colors, I tried to stick with the most prominent color in the flag (though often there's a three-way tie). I looked several countries ahead to make sure that the same color isn't used within 2-4 rows. I also tried to use white every few rows for the benefit of completely
808:
I generally assume that editors have to learn how to use
Knowledge (XXG) templates, because they are used in pretty much every article, usually quite frequently. Wikification, where we replace web-standard HTML tags (which do work without modification) with Knowledge (XXG)-specific markup, is a
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doesn't say anything about not mixing the two, so my thinking was that the mixed style was at least MOS-compliant, and we could go back and convert the rest of the markup later. I was hoping some other editors skilled in LaTeX would be able to help with that. Would you be able to help with some
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I've notice by doing back to old commits that I definitely break references myself sometimes, presumably because I'm too emotionally exhausted after making a big edit to go back and carefully check the results. Sometimes a bot fixes orphaned references, sometimes the content referring to them
927:
that removes all of the flags on the leftmost column because as someone who needs visual cues a lot, I usually look at the flags to know which country's subdivisions I'm looking for. Two questions: Why do you do that, and what's the problem with the flags? You've done this 3 times as far as I
709:
I am extremely dubious of the evidence-free claim that editors of very mathematical pages are deterred by the presence of occasional explicit unicode characters. But I can tell you for certain that good editors are highly discouraged by having their careful deliberate choices trampled by lazy
954:
I am concerned, though, that you are feeling a lack of visual clues. Is it just that as your eye moves from left to right, it's difficult to keep track of which line you were looking at? We could mitigate that by alternating row background colors between white and light grey in the style of
813:. That wouldn't be necessary if we weren't trying to save people from learning HTML. I wasn't planning to mindlessly swap thin space HTML entities for templates, but at some point I will probably do a pass through the entire project to remove inappropriate ones. As you can see, most of
244:
Greetings! The first is the number of instances this possible formula was found, and the second is the number of pages. So in this instance, H3S10 was found 16 times across 5 pages. It looks like Graeme
Bartlett already determined it is not a chemical formula and made a redirect for
1426:." on a previous removal, and it's become clear from further conversations that editor does not think that material is important enough to be included, regardless of whether or not it's well-referenced. It seems like you are both on your way to resolving that dispute.
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The idea of using the common name to link these to articles is interesting, and something I hadn't really thought about. The spell checker doesn't really care if there's a link or not; it only looks at the display text. So, it will complain about both "H20" and
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article, which are secondary if you consider the Bible primary, but these each carry a specific religious point of view. I don't see any secular secondary sources or any sources analyzing the different religious perspectives across time or sect, which would be
1401:
The reason why they broke the
Harvard links was because they removed much of the reliably sourced, cited content. So my edit summary was "Last good version - what is going on here?" because I could not understand why someone would do that. Cheers,
1601:
If there's nothing to add to the paragraph-long mention in the merged article, what would be the purpose of drafting a separate article? I would think an article needs to have more than a paragraph of unique material to be worthwhile. --
959:. Or, we could pick a color from the flag of each country and lightly tint the background with that color to make them somewhat more distinctive. That would avoid the problems with horizontal space caused by addition of the flags. --
627:
Ah, thanks for the note! I hadn't noticed that I had made the same edit before. That's surprising that the character and the HTML entity have different text direction behavior; I'll be on the lookout for that in the future. --
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Great! Basically you need to set the "background" CSS property on each row, in the "style" property. New rows show up in the wikitext as "|-" and usually there's already a valign property there, so we end up with something
124:, which only requires changing over the blackboard bold characters. I had been converting relatively simple formulas to LaTeX completely, but it got a bit time consuming, and some longer formulas were quite daunting.
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is not substantially beneficial. The template is not inherently more accessible, being a weird english-wikipedia-ism that someone has to go do a search to learn about instead of a common standard used across the
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HTML syntax if one of those isn't really necessary. Perhaps the added difficulty is more pronounced for articles where there isn't already a lot of complicated mathematical markup, but that is most of them. --
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Just gave it a little test by doing
Austria, and it looks great! I'd do the rest now, but I need sleep (it's 8:20pm where I am). Don't worry about doing the rest, I'll get on top of that ASAP when I wake up.
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space; a full space is normally a safe substitution. It turns out I actually get overlapping characters myself with no space there, so I'll see what I can do to get that fixed. In the meantime, I'll use
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remember reading somewhere that the Moss scripts ignore capitalised words, and as elements and chemical formulas (should) always start with a capital, these may not be issues in the first place. π
π β
296:, which is a bit ugly but potentially helpful to the reader. Sometimes there's a very technical context, and the problem text shows up in chemical equations or something, where putting words (like "
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proper nouns) most of the ones without numbers would have articles or redirects, so they would still be ignored. The only reason they became an issue for moss is that not using subscripts violates
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I suspect most or all of these either aren't chemical formulas or don't have chemical substance articles we can point to, so the suggestion to add links to chemical articles might apply more to
880:, which specifies no space after "US$ " and a full, non-breaking space before "million". It looks sloppy to have different amounts of whitespace in different instances of currency expressions.
1542:, were there also secondary sources in Queen of Psalm 45 before its merger? Is it also possible to start the article over in a draft? since another user suggested it to me on my talk page.
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space rather than removing it, which I missed. I would have expected the latter to generate complaints about overlapping text characters. I'm surprised that the complaint is that there was
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Yes, the general intention is to investigate each, determine if they are actually a chemical formula, and update the markup accordingly. There's a full list of suggestions of what to do at
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remember, and as said earlier, it makes me feel slightly agitated as the removal of the flags hinders me being able to know which row is which even when looking at the country name.
869:, which specifies a full, non-breaking space between a number and a unit abbreviation. It looks sloppy to have different amounts of whitespace in different measurement expressions.
159:
and put the mixed markup pages on my personal cleanup todo list. It may be a few months before I get to all of them, as there are thousands of articles in my cleanup queue. --
445:, it does link each element symbol to the article on that element. I'm not sure if that's something we should be doing everywhere or nowhere? It might be worth checking with
435:
There may be other reasons to wrap these formulas, though, such as for accessibility. It doesn't look like they are currently adding alt text, but if you use "auto=yes" with
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of disrespect or an intolerable annoyance, I would recommend just politely letting them know this happened, so they can avoid accidentally creating an unnecessary grievance.
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need them and which don't benefit from a visual improvement to the way they are displayed. On the other hand, it may reduce the number of false positives for projects like
944:
1154:
Thank you so much! And I also appreciate you taking the time to address my initial concerns and finding this amazing way to work around it, this is gonna help a lot.
1346:
thank you for your considered and fair responses at the mathematical / numbers thread at ANI. I just want to share with you where I'm coming from, please compare
332:
Just out of curiosity, is there a comparable list of chemical formulas that don't contain numbers (like HNO and NaCl), and therefore could be mistaken for words?
924:
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are they for reference only, or would it be in any way helpful to investigate and tag them with their common names, if they are indeed chemical formulae?
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this content, but if you decide to do so, please be careful to not leave dangling
Harvard citations as did." It might simply have been inadvertent. --
605:
More generally, you should always look at the resulting text as it is displayed to the ordinary user and make sure that it is what you want it to be.
1236:
well versed with advanced Python. Are you willing to join me as a developer and host this project on WikiTech? Thanks in advance for any response!
831:
This seems like a huge waste of time. Most of the examples of thin spaces from your link seem deliberate, and don't seem to be harming anything. β
1015:
Excellent. Did you have any interest in doing the rest? I can explain a bit about how HTML colors work if you need some technical background. --
1587:, Well, it seems that there is nothing missing, but can a draft of the article be made? since another user suggested it to me on my talk page.
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may have been the first editor to introduce this character in 2017; pinging them to see if they are (still) having typographical problems. --
450:
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chemical formulas if they have articles. The spell checker won't care if you make it a link or not, but it might help readers to do so.
1228:
I have recently gone through you moss project for typo detection in
Knowledge (XXG), and I loved it. When I checked the last uploaded
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In my experience, thin and hair spaces usually aren't necessary, and can sometimes cause excess whitespace. This is a good reason to
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actually gets restored (as in this case), and sometimes I accidentally leave a small mess for someone else to tidy up. --
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editors to know LaTeX. But it seems a bit much to expect, say, a math professor who already knows LaTeX to learn wikitext
141:
saying not to mix LaTeX and HTML, and resolve to do blackboard-bold-motivated conversions in one step rather than two? --
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are not in math articles, are not fixing problems with overlapping characters, and do not align with our usual style. --
1729:
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Yeah, it's definitely more readable when it's all in LaTeX. I've just been going through making articles compliant with
1053:
on the rows for subnational entities. I'm happy to figure that out if it's not obvious though a little trial and error.
1229:
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1029:
Of course! That would be good, plus I'd be able to learn how to edit colours on to a table as well, it's a win-win!
69:
1279:. This edit caused an undated Fact template to be entered in the article, in the infobox section on citizenship.
686:, along with reducing the skill burden of learning wikitext so we can attract and retain editors. The version of
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Thanks, I don't have any opinions on these issues accessibility-wise ... I guess what to do depends on context.
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templates) looking incorrect, and explicit hair spaces or thin spaces make the formula appear more correctly. β
396:. Having said that, since elements and most basic chemical formulas don't contain numbers, they don't contain
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1722:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers&oldid=1246528163
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template would not do anything to make them more easily searchable.In regards to both of our questions I do
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template is to make it possible to search
Knowledge (XXG) for chemical formulae without having to resort to
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Hi, just wanted to let you know that I have decided not to pursue this merge. I did a lot of work to reduce
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around forever. Does the version without thin and hair spaces render incorrectly for you? It looks like
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Well, I see in the article history the editor who removed that text used the summary "Removed yet more
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Tag me if you are responding to my content or wish to notify me, because I may not be subscribed.
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to if there is a way as I am not aware of another creditable source available. Any suggestions?
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That's an interesting question! While thinking about it, I thought of another, related question.
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On one hand, I'm not sure that it's worth adding the bulk of a template for things that don't
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and opined those guidelines require removal of flags due to the circumstances of this table.
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or markup issues, it might have been motivated by some report generated by that project. --
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somehow - it appears that despite clicking cancel, the action went through. Apologies.
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out this list). Thanks for your interesting question and your ongoing cleanup work! --
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stop automatically breaking people's intentional choices in mathematical typography. β
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You (or a bot you used), recently made an edit to a Knowledge (XXG) article about
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Please stop converting thin spaces to ordinary spaces in mathematical typography.
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Hello! I have recently been fixing typos from moss and I see there is a list of
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Removal of the flags on the "List of administrative divisions by country" page
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249:, so I took that off the list. That's a preferred way to fix items that are
923:. I'll just get to the point. It irritates me whenever you make an edit to
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particular sect? I'm curious if there's something you feel is missing. --
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regarding an issue with which you are definitely involved. The thread is
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I like both ideas! How about we try the second option? That could work.
776:
Wikitext is built on HTML, and HTML entities are a basic feature. Using
388:.One of the main reasons that I can see for converting HTML tags to the
91:, you introduced recently the awful formula {{math|''n'' β <math: -->
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You can also just add a sentence or two of NPOV material at a time to
95:. Please, avoid mixing latex and html rendering in the same formula.
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Let me know if you have any questions, and thanks for your help! --
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page history for older conversations if you need to refer back.
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I colorized the first few countries. How does that look? --
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List of possible chemical formulas that don't use subscripts
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per ], do not mix LaTeX and {{math}} in the same expression
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Did a few of these today. Note to myself, use edit summary:
1687:, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of your
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if you are doing research over a long period of time. --
133:(not all of which are from my edits) and several hundred
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I created the spelling and grammar checking project at
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Talk:List of administrative divisions by country#Flags
268:" ("]") because the manual of style says it should be
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Knowledge (XXG):Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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While converting chemical formulae written with HTML
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what do the numbers on the left of the entries mean?
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I accidentally reverted your vandalism reversion at
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Typo Team/moss#Self-Hosted Moss
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to see if anyone has any particular preferences. --
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possible chemical formulas that don't use subscripts
1057:color-blind readers (who only see shades of grey).
809:general directive, and indeed the whole point of
426:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Chemistry#Symbols
1375:Sure, all I can do is try to get people talking
258:Knowledge (XXG):Typo Team/moss#Chemical formulas
1001:Sorry for the late response! It looks amazing!
505:written with HTML tags, you have to search for
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1217:Moss Project Nomination for WikiTech Cloud VPS
1316:Knowledge (XXG)'s conflict of interest policy
590:have twice ignored this fact when replacing β΅
8:
1063:has more details, but the color values are
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947:and another editor there also pointed out
286:). Turning that into a link would make it
451:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Accessibility
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93:}}. I have changed it into <math: -->
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362:template, should element names such as
1116:FFFFF0 - yellow (also works for gold)
858:is also polluting a citation template.
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207:. I was wondering a couple of things:
455:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Chemistry
7:
733:Ah, your comment pointed out that I
490:As an example, to find instances of
378:as you mentioned, also be converted?
307:, where there usually is an article.
1463:There is currently a discussion at
518:template, it can be done with just
811:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Wikify
229:Thanks and happy typo hunting π
14:
1314:of an article, be sure to follow
1230:moss screening of Knowledge (XXG)
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1689:successful request for adminship
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1086:F0F0F0 - light gray (for black)
1524:until a consensus is reached.
957:Template:Alternating rows table
428:and Unicode subscripts violate
1749:16:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
1734:14:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
1557:I see commentaries in the old
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137:. We could also add a note to
22:Knowledge (XXG):Typo Team/moss
1:
1701:03:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
850:Well, the first instance, on
400:tags, so making them use the
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108:09:42, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
1683:Hi Beland! On behalf of the
1679:Happy adminship anniversary!
1663:Happy Adminship Anniversary!
638:16:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
615:14:45, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
600:Cardinality of the continuum
585:Watch out for Hebrew letters
94:n\in\mathbb{N}</math: -->
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83:Coherent style for formulas
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51:Typeface/Font/Computer font
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1691:. Enjoy this special day!
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884:is breaking the same rule.
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1379:each other rather than
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815:the existing instances
710:automated regressions.
129:conversions? I see 88
1716:Accidental reversion.
876:, the usage violates
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89:Nilpotent Lie algebra
70:John Maynard Friedman
68:anyway, feel free. --
1693:The Herald (Benison)
522:β no regex, or even
1516:redirect guidelines
1510:has been listed at
61:keyboard technology
1685:Birthday Committee
1507:Monsoon Revolution
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1061:Web colors
852:Kazakhstan
778:{{thinsp}}
526:necessary.
479:References
411:rbstrachan
231:rbstrachan
949:MOS:FLAGS
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882:Apartheid
846:Jacobolus
833:jacobolus
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919:Hello, @
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