637:, which should give you a good indication that what you frequently you argue over is not really that important. I don't think you're at the level of causing blatant and imminent disruption to warrant a block, but I will support the community's decision to block you, which means you have some serious work to do now if you are to avoid losing your editing privileges. I would start by apologising to the people mentioned in this section and admit that you got over-heated and argued about things that weren't important - that would be a start to regaining some respect.
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one to disagree with consensus but I am one to seek it. the Utah Jazz were "Are" for years before I got involved now that I say it should be "are" there are threats of blocks. I think edits like AndyJSmith are simply out with a personal grudge. since he had no problem with the wording Are until now. I'm sorry if anyones feelings were hurt by me using
English conventions to make subjects and verbs agree. If you disagree with a particular edit use the talk page would be my suggestion.
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introduction line do) Would you argue that a band like... "Bread" be "Bread are a band" since you insist on treating bands as collective nouns. or do you only sometimes insist on bands to be collective nouns? if so, why? Why should we sometimes treat a band as a collective noun and sometimes not treat it when both scenarios are being introduced as the topic of the article? so some topics are about the bands? and some are about the individual band members? makes zero sense.
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band. If you ask yourself this simple question you say 1st - Is the title of the band a title? yes, secondly. Is the band a single entity? yes. Then we use the singular was not the plural were. the majority of bands even those in the plural use the correct is/was only the minority have editors who are using this incorrectly. I get that it sounds counter intuitive but it is correct. in AmE the titles of
Singular entities use the singular verb.
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912:, you'll see that "The Byrds are..." or "The Byrds were" is correct, in both American English and British English. If the band's name is a plural proper noun and a collective noun, which "Byrds" is, then "are" or "were" is grammatically correct. Really though, this is just common sense and it's also supported by the style guides of countless other print or online music publications. --
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the entity as a whole. If we are referring to the beach boys as individuals we say are. But if we are referring to the title of their band like the first sentence of the article about that band is. We say is. Many bands do this (The Black Eyed Peas, the Wall
Flowers, Guns and Roses, etc) It might confuse you but it's sound grammar.
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Representing several fan club members of West Coast
Midnight Run™ we thought you may want to add the title of the publication to your Coffee Table Book page. The publication is along the lines of an art book/coffee table book with strong qualities influenced by lifestyle and entertainment magazines.
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Would you write "AC/DC are a band" "Metalica are a band" "Styx are a band" "Journey are a band" etc? If you are arguing that all bands must all be treated as collective verbs always then let me know. or are you saying "I want to only treat bands as collective nouns sometimes depending on my arbitrary
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Your most recent comments only further demonstrate your invincible ignorance on this question. If a band's name is both a plural noun and a collective noun then it is grammatically correct to use "were" and "are" etc. Which part of this straightforward grammatical principle don't you understand? Your
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the title of a single entity is singular in
English, let me help you out. The united nations is a thing. The grapes of wrath is a book. The son's of anarchy is a biker gang. Guns n Roses is a band. US Marshals is a law enforcement agency. League of Legends is a video game. and yes The Carpenters is a
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be a collective noun doesn't mean that it always is. Pop-tarts is a brand of food = Title of
Singular Entity. Pop tarts are delicious! = Collective noun of al the worlds pop-tarts. So the question is what is the title of the article? is the title of the article the singular title of the entity or is
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and so the use of "was" or "is" in this case is grammatically incorrect. This is just basic
English grammar for heaven's sake! In addition, I would ask that Bryce Carmony go back through the large number of articles that you've altered in this way over the past few days and revert your edits back to
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The example is reffering to individual members, which is why they said champions. The individual seahawk players are the individual champions. The example does not , and would not say that the
Seahawks are a Franchise owned by Paul Allen. Since Paul Allen does not own the individual players, he owns
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I'm not looking to cause an edit war.what confuses me is why people simply refuse to use article talk pages. I have people who (evidently) disagree with me but instead of posting why they disagree in the article talk page instead they go to ANI or something else. The talk page process works. I'm not
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Yeah...I'm not cherry picking and you're wrong about the correct use of "was" or "is" with regards to this. Whether the article title is a singular entity or the collective noun is irrelevant, it's the use of "was" or "is" in the context of the opening sentence of the article, in which the band is
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Hello. I'm from
England and what we're debating here is the difference between British English and American English. We are - as the old saying goes - peoples divided by a common language. I believe the consensus is that British bands "are" and American bands "is" on Knowledge (XXG). In England we
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The title of the article is not a collective noun, it's the title of a singular entity. per WP:Title titles should be singular, so where we have the choice we chose the singular title over the collective noun. the article "The
Cranberries" is a singular title for the band... you guessed it... the
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You are still missing the point. As the Manual of Style makes clear, when the name of a band or a sporting team includes a plural noun, such as "Eagles", then it is then not treated as a single entity (a band or team) but as a plural entity (a number of people). This principle is not difficult to
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Do you have a citation of the beatles being more than one band? if you do I'd love to add it to the article if not you are creating original research which is problematic. NPOV requires that we don't give undue weight to a fringe theory that the Beatles are multiple bands and NPOV is immune from
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plural nouns and collective nouns. Therefore, in American English, the verb forms of "were" and "are" would not be correct (but can be in British English) unlike plural and collective names such as "Eagles" and "Carpenters". Your repeated inability to understand these obvious distinctions is
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It isn't. In BrE all bands are always collective nounds. "Supertramp are a band" not "is a band" because in English we always use the collective noun for a band. in AmE we don't HAVE to use the collective noun for a band. we can treat it as a singular entity (which the title and subsequently
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it the collective noun? and WP:Titles informs us that it is preferable that it be the singular entity. so when we refer to the band we are referring to the title of the singular entity not the collective noun. Which is why we don't say "Pop-tarts are a brand" or "The cranberries are a band"
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Oh so the aritcle "Bread (band)" is about the band bread but the article "the Carpenters" is about the members of the band the carpenters. That makes TOTAL sense. Keep in mind that when an article title can be singular or plural that the title of the article is singular per
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was more common early in the history of the country, as the singular federal government exercised more authority and a singular national identity developed (especially following the American Civil War) it became standard to treat the United States as a singular noun."
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I'm glad it got sorted out at The Beatles but please don't take it too far in the other direction. Generally in the U.S., the verb used with sports teams follows the nominal number of the team's name - so, Washington Redskins "are", but Minnesota Wild "is". See
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So you would say "The Seahawks are a trademark" you would truly in your heart of hearts write that. "The Beatles are a trademark". You are incapable of understanding that the singular entity of the band =/= the individual members of the band at all times.
995:. I don't think there's much more to say here. You're a disruptive editor who will not accept editor consensus or repeated warnings. Therefore, I don't have anything else to add to this discussion. I'll let the admins make a decision about this. --
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WP:Titles says we shouldn't use the collective noun as the title and use the singular entity. if you have a problem with that policy you can propose a change to that policy, you can't cherry pick what policies you will and will not follow.
309:. I don't doubt that you're an excellent editor, so I want to make sure that nothing has turned you off of editing. Do you feel any less stressed by other editors? Or do you feel like hitting your head against the wall at present? ;-) –
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wouldn't say the Beatles "was", we would say the Beatles "were". Similarly, we wouldn't say Coldplay "is a band", we would say Coldplay "are a band" because Coldplay constitutes more than one person. Same with Genesis. Hope that helps.
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Please stop your repeated disruptive editing over "are" and "is" in connection with bands. Regardless of what you think on this matter Knowledge (XXG)'s own Manual of Style is quite clear on this issue. Here is the relevant section at
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I think that the Knowledge (XXG) Manual of Style concerning plurals - which specifically addresses this precise point - should determine how plurals are treated in Knowledge (XXG) articles. Don't start (another) edit war. Thanks.
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I have had a look through your contributions. Frankly, you seem to go right up to the line of being blatantly disruptive without ever crossing it. In particular, you seem to get tied up in the sort of thing documented at
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The consensus has been to use "were" forever. The only one undermining anything is you. The fact that you didn't even respond to the substance of my comment shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Discussing articles in userspace instead of the articles talk page is an attempt to circumvent consensus, if you have a disagreement about an article you can write about it in the articles talk page.
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In addition to my above response, band names like "The Byrds" are the name of a band - a singular entity - but still a collective noun for that particular group of musicians. If you take a look at
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Irrelevant argument. In these examples you are referring to the words "The Seahawks" and "The Beatles" and not to the collective nouns. Different principle, different grammar. Should be obvious.
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Carrying on with your war on singular and plural usage by making a further clumsy and unwarranted edit - while the matter is under discussion at ANI - is clearly deliberately disruptive.
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suggest you not attempt a return in under 6 months. Hopefully the time away and some perspective will provide some insight on the collaborative nature of the project. You can read
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Let's simplify this. do you believe that a title for a singular entity should use the singular verb? yes or no. we'll take this one step at a time and find where the disconnect is.
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mood" let me know. WP:Titles promotes my posiion, where as you have no policy basis to argue for saying "are a band" when the name of the band is a title of a singular unit.
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I've made precisely 2 edits to that page - at least since 2013 - and both of them were to revert your "are" to "is". I'm afraid you are mistaken on that count.
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Despite exceptions such as usage in The New York Times, the names of sports teams are usually treated as plurals even if the form of the name is singular.
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Cranberries. if you want to make an exception for bands to be plural titles you can argue it in the WP page but I don't think consensus will follow that.
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with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Knowledge (XXG)'s
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All the sources for the article are either 1-primary sources from the topic, or 2 - non reliable. i haven't changed my mind on the content.
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If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Knowledge (XXG)'s
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In case you wondered, the above is a song reference from my generation. From the disam page: "Talk of the Town", a 1980 song by
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Utah Jazz was Are before you changed it so the "war" was actually started by you. check your history on the article.
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Invitation to comment on VP proposal: Establish WT:MoS as the official site for style Q&A on Knowledge (XXG)
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Indefinite does not mean infinitely, but I would suggest you wait at least a year before appealing this block
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The real issue, the one you keep missing the point of, is not about "singular" or "plural" nouns but about "
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analogy with Pop Tarts is erroneous. On this issue you are not properly informed or competent.
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clearly a collective noun, that is in dispute. But regardless of that, I've just seen this:
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It is evident, therefore, that "The Beach Boys are" is correct grammar in American English.
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Do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive until the dispute is resolved through
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This is a courtesy notice to inform you that I have proposed at ANI that you be blocked.
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page. Also feel free to contribute to !voting for new weekly selections at the project's
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You've just proven my point again about your invincible ignorance. These band names are
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I'm really unclear about what, if anything, the ping template does. Oh, well. —
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to stop changing "were" to "was" or "are" to "is" in band articles. As noted by
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is almost universally used with a singular verb. Although the construction the
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which you took part. The debate continues on the talk page of the article (see
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Hi Bryce! I just wanted to check in. How have things been going for you since
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I didn't really mean it at first, but you are being discussed at "
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You are being contacted because of your participation in the
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I mentioned you as a contrary reference on my User talk page.
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at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
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So the argument that titles are singular is erroneous?
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Thank you for your contributions to Knowledge (XXG)! --
690:, with one major exception: in American English, the
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538:page, and ask for independent help at one of the
28:Hello, Bryce Carmony. You have new messages at
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505:October 2015
421:. Thanks.
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801:WP:SINGULAR
520:Tunnel boom
297:Checking in
104:Dr. Blofeld
1194:Hi Bryce,
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377:consensus.
284:Darkfrog24
142:talk:Melee
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1202:unsigned
1139:WP:UNBAN
1134:strongly
1060:not BOTH
524:reverted
485:JohnInDC
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149:coatrack
35:You can
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333:Calidum
321:Beatles
311:voidxor
246:members
160:PBS-AWB
1143:WP:GAB
1132:, and
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1210:talk
1172:Ched
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1145:and
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