User talk:BrynLlywelyn - Knowledge (XXG)

186:. I am aware of Owain Tudur's pedigree having spent more time and effort than I care to mention, going through the original prime source material in the Public Record Office, London, the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth, the Lambeth Palace Archives and elsewhere. There is a line of descent for Owain Tudur tracing back to 'Philip ap Ifor, Lord of Iscoed and Catherine ferch Llywelyn'. And yes a 'Catherine ferch Llywelyn' almost certainly existed. The expansion of the pedigree to 'ferch Llywelyn ap Gruffudd' happened much later and is one of a great many suspect additions that found their way in to pedigrees compiled from the Tudor period onwards. In some cases it was deliberately done simply to boost prestige. The life and times of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd is remarkably well documented. I can only stress the fact that in the original thirteenth century documents, including those of the Crown of England, there is no mention whatsover anywhere that Llywelyn ap Gruffudd had a daughter Catherine. All the records, including correspondence, show Gwenllian as being his only child. 819:

the original documents of the period.) The fault lies in the system that has deliberately taught the history of Britain, until very recently, from a one sided, south-east England only perspective. But now, thanks to the likes of Knowledge (XXG) and interest from the wider world, attitudes are changing, and in a positive, beneficial way for everyone. Dafydd ap Gruffudd was the named sucessor to his brother Llywelyn ap Gruffudd and as such was the last independent prince of Wales and lord of Snowdon until his execution in October 1283. I can cite the references and will as you suggest debate this further on the appropriate talk pages. All good wishes for 2007.

509:

and make puns in a time honoured and highly complex way, we try to get the spelling of names correct whenever we can. Carnedd Llywelyn has been incorrectly entered on modern OS maps as Carnedd Llewelyn, and until the O.S. reprint, unfortunately that is the way that it appears. LLEW means Lion in English. LLYW means Leader. Twysog Llywelyn, Prince of Wales (killed 11 December 1282)is remembered among his people as 'Ein Llyw Olaf', Our Last Leader. He lived nearby at

1054:

much other information available. A Google search of "Y ty ddu" finds nothing. Which documents are these? (By the way, "ddu" not "du"?) Moreover, if his lodge was by Geirionydd, why should he have bothered to build a church at Trefriw to allegedly save Joan that walk from Trefriw up to Llanrhychwyn, as cited by many sources. But then the reference to that walk has also been removed, so does this mean that much of this is some myth? As I said, I'm intrigued.

476:

Aber to life and as Aber Garth Celyn was deliberately written out of the history books after 1283, they have introduced a world wide audience to the two Llywelyn's and so much more. Historical documents are still coming to light, and more is now known about the murder of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd than when Sharon wrote The Reckoning. But thanks to Knowledge (XXG), that can all now be shared. Will get some more photographs on line. Best wishes Bryn

137:

going through original documents, I have not found one single contemporary reference to Catherine being a daughter of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd. The 'ap Gruffudd' as far as I can see was added to the 'Llywelyn' in a geneology of Owain Glyndwr compiled several centuries later, and this has been copied on occasion since. This type of error was common at that particular time and it is obvious how it happened.

600:(yes, another guideline.. :)) Wiki pages along the lines of "Firstname lastname" (or "Enw ap enw" and "Enw Ap enw") get redirected to the properly-capitalised versions. Quite often they are deliberately created purely to provide the redirect. If you want to expand a page, you want the version the redirects point to, not the one all in lowercase. 289:

of every Welshman', (of any age), brought back to camp, and he gave the instruction that his men were to be encouraged to rape any Welsh woman that they came upon. This ethnic cleansing of the heartland of Welsh Wales lasted for nine months. None of this gets into the official history books; history is often sanitized, and that is sad.

141:

Rolls listing payments, Ministers' Accounts, Ancient Petitions and so forth, Vatican Library MSS, together with the records available from the various Gilbertine Priories make no mention of Catherine. No payments were made by the Crown for her upkeep. Nothing. And there is nothing in the thirteenth century Welsh Records.

521:, Iwan Arfon Jones (ISBN: 0 86243 374 6) uses Carnedd Llywelyn The Mountains of Wales, Ioan Bowen Rees (ISBN 0-7083-1163-6) uses Carnedd Llywelyn The name is spelt correctly in countless numbers of books and articles written by local people, as it is in documents in UCNW, Bangor, Archives and elsewhere. 1053:

Hi BrynLlywelyn, I am intrigued by your recent edit to Llanrhychwyn, i.e. Llywelyn's hunting lodge "known in documents as Y Ty Ddu, near Llyn Geirionydd". Whilst not for a moment doubting your info - from your edit history you're clearly knowledgable in the field - it would seem to rather contradict

475:

Garth Celyn Garth Celyn is a really special, timeless place, and a key one in Welsh history. This was once to all extent and purpose the 'capital' of Wales and the headquarters of resistance to domination by England. Then after 1283, just left to fall into ruin. Sharon's novels help to bring medieval

465:

I have recently discovered your edits on Knowledge (XXG) and that has led me to the website of Garth Celyn. Having read Sharon Kay Penman's books Here Be Dragns and others I have a special interest in Carth Celyn. Thank you for posting this information. It lead me to the offical site and .... wow! To

288:

Hi Deb. I know where you are coming from on this, and I take your point, but it is hard to be totally impartial when you sit in the Public Record Office, reading Edwards letters and orders. In January 1283, with Snowdonia circled by a massive army, Edward offered his troops one shilling for the 'head

136:

Under medieval Welsh law the phrase 'illegitimate'did not apply. 'Illegitimacy' was not a stigma, and all offspring had rights. If Llywelyn ap Gruffudd had had a child he would have most certainly acknowledged her, as did his brother Dafydd ap Gruffudd with his children. In all my years of research,

101:

I am the person responsible for the content of the Welsh historical information on the www.llywelyn.co.uk website. My specialist period in Welsh historical research is fifth to fourteenth century, and it is all done from original documentation held in archives in the U.K. and Europe. I have copyright

956:

Sut da chi BrynLlywelyn. Can you take a look at the latest deletions by ras52, I put in other citations and references yesterday and they have been unilaterally deleted by the above user, I have not reverted the deletions as its probably best to get some idea if there is any support for citing the

524:

So where do we go from here? By far the majority of people who use Knowledge (XXG) will not have an OS map. Many people, interested in the mountains of Snowdonia, for what ever reason, do know of Snowdonia National Park and might check out the Park's website. A title to the Knowledge (XXG) page with

193:

in his grasp. (see Calendar of Welsh Rolls, 291-2; Foedera, I, ii, 630; Registrum Ricardi de Swinfield Episcipi Herefordensis.) There was no 'Catherine' among the names, and on this issue Edward was meticulous. In addition, in 1289 there was an Inquiry concerning the custody of the royal girls. The

166:

Well, then I would suggest that you both check out the family history of Owen Tudor, as there are numerous sources to back that up. Someone along the way may have suggested she was Llewelyn "the last" daughter, however, whether she was or not she did exist and was the ancestor of Owen Tudor. Just

121:

If it is said on this site that Catherine was the daughter of Llewelyn then most certainly enough people believe that she may been his daughter. I would also make one more point to you. It was common for a popular person back in that time be written about in a perfect light. Llewelyn most likely

818:

Much information on Welsh medieval history has been put on Knowledge (XXG) by enthusiastic, well-meaning individuals using secondary or minor source material. (There is, for example, not one reference book on the life and work of Llywelyn the Great, and the majority of people do not have access to

508:

Bore Dda Stemonitis I take your point, and thank you for that. I see that you have reversed the spelling of Carnedd Llywelyn to Carnedd Llewelyn on the page with that name. Whats in a name? Here in Eryri, where I live, names carry a great significance and though our bards take liberties with words

140:

The most telling point is that if Catherine had have been a daughter of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, then she surely would have been taken with her Gwenllian and girl cousins to Lincolnshire to be locked away on King Edward's instructions. Edward's correspondence (Public Record office, London), Exchequer

833:

Hi, I know we disagreed in the past, but you seem to know a lot about history. I have a question, have you ever found any record saying that King Henry VII ever had an illegimate son and that son had descendents? An editor has put it on his website, and I have never found much evidence. I have

144:

Various fictions have attached themselves to Catherine in recent years. This has led to interest in the woman being fairly widespread. But I stress that these are fictions, not fact, and Knowledge (XXG), I believe, has a strict policy about passing on genuine factual knowledge, from genuine prime

26:

I gather the sources that I believe it states she was also their daughter. The second one I am not so sure because websites are not always right. The first, I believe that source is where I found it. If it is wrong then you are welcome to delete it. It seems to make sense that she was their

302:

Fair enough. Bear in mind that it's okay to say "Edward offered his troops one shilling for the 'head of every Welshman', (of any age), brought back to camp", as long as you can cite sources. It's less acceptable to say "Edward attempted ethnic cleansing in Wales", because that is debatable.

16:

Hello It is my intention to add historical information to the Knowledge (XXG) Encyclopedia. After many years of research into early Welsh history, I continue to lecture in Europe and the USA on the subject, and give regular talks to students. My specialist period is 450-1370. I have worked on

755:

for vandalism. Generally when merging one page into another, it's usual to make the old page redirect to the new one. You can do this by replacing the page with the wikicode #REDIRECT ], and this should stop the bot from reverting the change. I've now done this for you. Merry Christmas!

525:

both spellings, might resolve the issue for the present. My own preference would be to retitle the page Carnedd Llywelyn, and have a link to the alternative spelling. However, all the text on the page surely must contain own our local and recognised spelling of the name.

957:

RGS and other such bodies, and other books, i.e. "Gerald of Wales" in 1198. It took quite a while trawling through the libraries to locate them, but they got deleted in justa few minutes. Admitedly they are not perfect, but I didn't deserve that treatment. Diolch yn fawr. (

798:"was the last prince of an independent Wales before its conquest". I'm not going to change any of these as I don't know which of these are incorrect, but it seems that there is a problem with at least one of these statements. Would you be able to take a look at this? 516:

Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri, Snowdonia National Park Authority, use the correct spelling, Carnedd Llywelyn (see their website). The Royal Commission on Ancient Monuments, Wales use Carnedd Llywelyn (see 'Caernarvonshire Vol. 1, East, page151, entry 552, Carnedd Llywelyn.

238:

There was a Philip ab Ifor who was a trusted clerical envoy for Llywelyn Fawr, active in the 1230s. see Patent Rolls, ii. 452, 460, 466; Close Rolls, ii, 132; Cal. Patent Rolls, i.225; Rymer, i.236. This man was possible Catherine's husband, but I dont know that for

55:

and suggests raising the site on the Talk page. Also, there are lots of references to copyright in your edit summaries. Are you including material directly from that website? Essays elsewhere don't always fit with Knowledge (XXG)'s ideas about article style:

618:

Thank you. I am trying to share my many years of prime source historical research with as many people as I can, but am blipping on technical issues (not my strong point) at the moment. Appreciate any help that you give. From a wintry Snowdonia, greetings.

595:

Ooh, I wouldn't remove that redirect. The reason that particular page is a redirect is probably the capitalisation. There are problems with upper and lower case and the search facility in Knowledge (XXG). You can read the gory details in section 1.3 of

222:

Your points are well taken. As a direct descendent of Llywelyn the Great, Owen Tudor, and the ancient Welsh families it would be interesting to know who she really was to add it into my family tree. Which has been quite well researched, I might add.

856:") but I see you've contibuted to it in favour of the Welsh spelling. There's only one strong objector (sy'n byw yr ochr arall i Glawdd Offa!). Here's what I've just written at the bottom of the page to try and get this finished with once and for all: 805:

page as this is what is used on their pages. I have no idea which is correct, but we should be consistent within Knowledge (XXG). One of their articles' talk pages would be the place to discuss this if you think "Gruffudd" would be more appropriate.

278:

rule. In a couple of places I've removed sentences that come a bit close to breaking this rule. I may agree with you that Edward I was a horrible man, but we are obliged to be as impartial as possible when we discuss him in an encyclopaedia article.

209:. Just to add to that. In November 1282, one month before he was put to death, Llywelyn was offered secret terms; £1000 a year and an estate in England if he would surrender his nation to Edward. The offer also stated that care would be taken of ' 17:

historical programmes that have appeared on television (BBC/HTV/ITV/S4C) the latest a BBC history production linked with Open University earlier this year, and have talked on radio on many occasions. I live in Eryri / Snowdonia, Cymru / Wales.

102:

on my own research. I feel strongly that history is about reality, not myth, and that we have a duty to the next generation to pass on facts as we find them. I believe that this is the thinking behind Knowledge (XXG) and I welcome it.

1034:

I have removed all the external links that you inserted to the domain garthcelyn.com. Every time the link gets a different title, but they still all point to the same place, the main page on the domain. May I ask you to review

194:

Inquiry checked into their whereabouts. (Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1281-92, 321; Foedera, i, ii, 712). Again, there is no 'Catherine'. Edward most certainly would not have let a daughter of the Prince of Wales go free.

513:, at the entrance to the Aber valley. His name was Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, and the mountain, very significantly, is named in his honour, to his memory. Here in the heart of Welsh Wales the landscape keeps faith with memory. 1039:, which amongst others states, that the link should be directly linked to the text. It may be that there are documents on the domain that you add, which are suitable, but the main domain is certainly not. Regards, -- 664:. Knowledge (XXG) gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Knowledge (XXG), the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an 416:. Knowledge (XXG) gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Knowledge (XXG), the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an 369:. Knowledge (XXG) gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Knowledge (XXG), the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an 322:. Knowledge (XXG) gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Knowledge (XXG), the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an 672:

indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

424:

377:

330:

1107:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose 726:

to Knowledge (XXG) articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior.

167:

because she may not have been Llewelyn's daughter does not mean she did not exist. The mystery is who's daugther was she and given that records were not always accurate back then it is any one's guess.

580:

Sorry about that. Vandalism certainly was not my intention. Was attempting to remove the 'redirect' at the time. This is meant to be a different page, with historical references and sources.

942:

We need a vote of some sort. Please could you add a comment (in favour / against) so we can finally get this over with? Maddeuwch imi am y Saesneg ond dyna'r drefn fan 'ma mae'n debyg.

47:

to tons of pages on Knowledge (XXG). It's generally a good idea not to add the same link to multiple related articles, and I suspect it will be removed from a lot of the articles. The

498:. Minor edits are usually simple things like fixing typos, whereas any addition of information (of which you have been doing much — keep it up!) is generally considered major. -- 1015:

as they are "Not found". If there was a typo or you have good links, please feel free to re-insert them (my only reason for the deletion was to eliminate dead links). Regards,

122:

had mistresses and illegmiate children, whether you choose to believe it or not. Most men of that time did. So to claim he never had an illegimate child makes no sense.

1075:

I have undone your last action at this article, as specified in the talk page. Please feel free to start a discussion there; let's make the place better. Hwyl. Cheers,

292:

I can back my statements with prime source references every time where necessary, but I will tone my comments down for the reasons that you give. Many thanks. Bryn

242:

I have also read, in secondary sources, the suggestion that Catherine was possibly the daughter of Gruffudd ap Llywelyn. Again, there is nothing to back this up.

643: 632: 696: 448: 401: 354: 466:

see the tower and long house is amazing! Are there other pictures that can be viewed? I am sure I shall have other questions for you as well.

646:, which is probably a better place for such notices, and will probably reach more people. You might find it useful, given your interests. -- 1132: 794:

was "the last independent prince of Wales". Daffydd's article states "he was the last free Welsh ruler of Wales", and that his brother

669: 421: 374: 327: 275: 685: 665: 437: 417: 390: 370: 343: 323: 984: 53:

Use of Knowledge (XXG) to link to a website that you own, maintain or are acting as an agent for is strongly recommended against

1128: 695:. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at 447:. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at 400:. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at 353:. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at 680: 432: 385: 338: 1119:

describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to

1124: 235:

I am not certain who Catherine's parents were, and though it is tempting to guess, there is as yet no specific proof.

48: 801:

Incidentally, I've changed the spelling of "Gruffudd" back to "Gruffydd" in Dafydd's and Llywelyn's names on the

973: 274:

Hi, Bryn. I'm looking at your contributions with awe and admiration, but I fear you may be unaware of the

1020: 729: 661: 1120: 723: 1059: 413: 366: 319: 835: 795: 538: 261: 224: 168: 123: 28: 1096: 1087: 43:

Hiya. Welcome to Knowledge (XXG)! Historical information is always good. I see you've added the URL

1116: 1100: 791: 738: 64:

Incidentally, if you are mostly interested in Welsh history, you might also be interested in the

938:

as the majority of contributors to this debate are for it and the sources back their argument.

1016: 872: 820: 770: 620: 583: 563: 526: 477: 293: 252: 214: 197: 146: 103: 1112: 1104: 597: 73: 1055: 935: 884: 876: 853: 849: 802: 787: 748: 711: 704: 467: 57: 1115:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The 1108: 860:

I've just read through this page again in order to come up with some stats. Here they are:

976: 898: 647: 604: 562:: blanking a page is considered pure vandalism. I suggest you review all the redirects to 542: 499: 495: 83: 1036: 650: 65: 943: 880: 752: 692: 444: 397: 350: 69: 1077: 1040: 848:

Hi 'BrynLlywelyn', I don't know if you're still following the endless argument about

571: 1003:

article, I removed the links you recently inserted in the "External links" section,

868: 27:

daughter but perhaps she may have been an illegimate child of Llewelyn "the last".

245:

But it is safe to say that Catherine was not the daughter of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd.

1069: 958: 891: 510: 1011:

Vie de saint Gildas / Sant Gweltaz, iconographie, sources, traductions FR, etc

928:

Carnedd LLEWELYN - 10 (mostly following the OS or unreliable, e.g. GoogleEarth)

912: 905: 810: 757: 639: 601: 80: 642:, regarding our discussion about the Carneddau. You may not be aware of the 1136: 1081: 1063: 1043: 1024: 989: 961: 946: 838: 823: 813: 773: 760: 741: 623: 607: 586: 574: 545: 529: 502: 480: 470: 307: 296: 283: 264: 255: 227: 217: 200: 171: 159: 155:

I agree with you. I've never seen any evidence for Catherine's existence.

149: 126: 106: 86: 31: 490:

Just a small point: I don't think it's appropriate to mark edits such as

304: 280: 156: 97:

Thank you for that useful information, and I take your comments on board.

1103:

is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge (XXG)

834:

mentioned it on the discussion page but no one is responding. Thanks!

1010: 1000: 251:

Happy Christmas RosePlantagenet. I wish you luck in your search.

676:

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

428:

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

381:

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

334:

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

1005: 890:

Initially neutral, finally in favour of Carnedd LLYWELYN - 1 (

44: 747:

I think the AntiVandalBot mistook your attempt to merge

715: 567: 559: 491: 189:

On 28 June 1283 Edward proclaimed that he had the '

1095:You appear to be eligible to vote in the current 999:Hello BrynLlywelyn, during some cleanup of the 972:Hello and welcome back to Knowledge (XXG) :-) 60:will need a lot of "wikification", for example. 8: 786:I've just noticed your recent correction to 570:before you tinker with just one of them. -- 145:sources, in as academic a way as possible. 697:Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions 656:License tagging for Image:Garth Celyn.jpg 449:Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions 402:Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions 355:Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions 922:Authorities quoted in list (see above). 769:Many thanks. ....and a happy New Year. 408:License tagging for Image:DCP055132.jpg 361:License tagging for Image:DCP055131.jpg 260:Happy Christmas to you too! Thank you! 722:that attempts to recognize and repair 314:License tagging for Image:DCP05513.jpg 934:I move that this article be moved to 638:I notice that you placed a notice at 537:I have responded to this question on 276:Knowledge (XXG):Neutral point of view 213:daughter of Llywelyn'. The only one. 7: 737:about the bot and this warning. // 686:Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags 438:Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags 391:Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags 344:Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags 66:Knowledge (XXG) Middle Ages project 14: 1121:review the candidates' statements 782:Last independent prince of Wales 699:. 17:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC) 681:Knowledge (XXG):Image use policy 433:Knowledge (XXG):Image use policy 386:Knowledge (XXG):Image use policy 339:Knowledge (XXG):Image use policy 191:last of the treacherous lineage' 691:This is an automated notice by 644:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board 633:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board 451:. 00:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC) 443:This is an automated notice by 404:. 15:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 396:This is an automated notice by 357:. 14:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 349:This is an automated notice by 1127:. For the Election committee, 1097:Arbitration Committee election 1088:ArbCom elections are now open! 74:Welsh Wikipedians' noticeboard 1: 1137:16:29, 23 November 2015 (UTC) 774:12:23, 28 December 2006 (UTC) 761:09:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC) 742:20:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC) 651:13:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC) 284:18:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC) 265:17:05, 26 December 2006 (UTC) 256:20:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC) 228:16:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC) 160:12:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC) 150:23:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 127:19:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 107:23:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 87:18:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 79:Hope some of this is useful. 32:20:19, 24 November 2006 (UTC) 1044:22:50, 1 November 2009 (UTC) 1037:the external links guideline 1025:17:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC) 839:12:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC) 624:10:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC) 608:10:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC) 587:09:05, 9 December 2006 (UTC) 575:07:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC) 546:11:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC) 530:11:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC) 503:11:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC) 481:15:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC) 471:19:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC) 308:12:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC) 297:00:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC) 218:15:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC) 201:00:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 172:17:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 1123:and submit your choices on 1082:13:56, 3 October 2010 (UTC) 824:11:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC) 814:17:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC) 631: 1152: 1129:MediaWiki message delivery 962:08:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC) 867:FOR Carnedd LLYWELYN - 5 ( 735:frequently asked questions 45:http://www.llywelyn.co.uk/ 990:23:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC) 947:00:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC) 1064:13:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC) 904:Generally against - 1 ( 897:UNDECIDED/NEUTRAL - 1 ( 911:Strongly against - 1 ( 670:image description page 422:image description page 375:image description page 328:image description page 1101:Arbitration Committee 925:Carnedd LLYWELYN - 18 864:Contributors' views. 718:) was reverted by an 662:Image:Garth Celyn.jpg 660:Thanks for uploading 412:Thanks for uploading 365:Thanks for uploading 318:Thanks for uploading 178:Hello RosePlantagenet 829:In need of some help 796:Llywelyn ap Gruffydd 710:Your recent edit to 554:Llywelyn ap gruffudd 117:I agree with, Telsa. 1105:arbitration process 1006:Celyn, Celyn ap Caw 414:Image:DCP055132.jpg 367:Image:DCP055131.jpg 1117:arbitration policy 792:Dafydd ap Gruffydd 320:Image:DCP05513.jpg 112:Deleting Catherine 988: 980: 564:Llywelyn the Last 1143: 982: 979: 952:Carnedd Llywelyn 936:Carnedd Llywelyn 854:Carnedd Llewelyn 850:Carnedd Llywelyn 844:Carnedd Llywelyn 803:Carnedd Llywelyn 788:Carnedd Llewelyn 749:Aber Garth Celyn 712:Aber Garth Celyn 705:Aber Garth Celyn 203:3 December 2006 58:Aber Garth Celyn 1151: 1150: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1125:the voting page 1091: 1073: 1051: 1032: 997: 987: 970: 954: 846: 836:RosePlantagenet 831: 784: 708: 668:applied to the 658: 636: 566:as included in 556: 488: 463: 420:applied to the 410: 373:applied to the 363: 326:applied to the 316: 272: 262:RosePlantagenet 225:RosePlantagenet 169:RosePlantagenet 124:RosePlantagenet 114: 94: 40: 29:RosePlantagenet 23: 21:About Catherine 12: 11: 5: 1149: 1147: 1094: 1090: 1085: 1072: 1067: 1050: 1047: 1031: 1030:garthcelyn.com 1028: 1014: 1009: 1004: 996: 993: 983: 969: 966: 953: 950: 941: 932: 931: 930: 929: 926: 919: 918: 917: 916: 909: 902: 895: 888: 859: 845: 842: 830: 827: 783: 780: 779: 778: 777: 776: 764: 763: 753:Abergwyngregyn 707: 701: 689: 688: 683: 657: 654: 635: 630: 629: 628: 627: 626: 613: 612: 611: 610: 590: 589: 581: 555: 552: 551: 550: 549: 548: 487: 484: 462: 459: 457: 454: 441: 440: 435: 409: 406: 394: 393: 388: 362: 359: 347: 346: 341: 315: 312: 311: 310: 271: 268: 249: 248: 247: 246: 243: 240: 236: 180: 179: 175: 174: 163: 162: 134: 133: 119: 118: 113: 110: 99: 98: 93: 90: 70:history portal 62: 61: 49:current policy 39: 36: 35: 34: 22: 19: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1148: 1139: 1138: 1134: 1130: 1126: 1122: 1118: 1114: 1110: 1106: 1102: 1098: 1089: 1086: 1084: 1083: 1080: 1079: 1071: 1068: 1066: 1065: 1061: 1057: 1048: 1046: 1045: 1042: 1041:Dirk Beetstra 1038: 1029: 1027: 1026: 1022: 1018: 1012: 1007: 1002: 994: 992: 991: 986: 978: 975: 967: 965: 963: 960: 951: 949: 948: 945: 939: 937: 927: 924: 923: 921: 920: 914: 910: 907: 903: 900: 896: 893: 889: 886: 882: 878: 874: 870: 866: 865: 863: 862: 861: 857: 855: 851: 843: 841: 840: 837: 828: 826: 825: 822: 816: 815: 812: 807: 804: 799: 797: 793: 789: 781: 775: 772: 768: 767: 766: 765: 762: 759: 754: 750: 746: 745: 744: 743: 740: 739:AntiVandalBot 736: 732: 731: 725: 721: 720:automated bot 717: 713: 706: 703:Your edit to 702: 700: 698: 694: 687: 684: 682: 679: 678: 677: 674: 671: 667: 663: 655: 653: 652: 649: 645: 641: 634: 625: 622: 617: 616: 615: 614: 609: 606: 603: 599: 594: 593: 592: 591: 588: 585: 582: 579: 578: 577: 576: 573: 569: 565: 561: 553: 547: 544: 540: 536: 535: 534: 533: 532: 531: 528: 522: 520: 514: 512: 506: 504: 501: 497: 493: 485: 483: 482: 479: 473: 472: 469: 460: 458: 455: 452: 450: 446: 439: 436: 434: 431: 430: 429: 426: 423: 419: 415: 407: 405: 403: 399: 392: 389: 387: 384: 383: 382: 379: 376: 372: 368: 360: 358: 356: 352: 345: 342: 340: 337: 336: 335: 332: 329: 325: 321: 313: 309: 306: 301: 300: 299: 298: 295: 290: 286: 285: 282: 277: 269: 267: 266: 263: 258: 257: 254: 244: 241: 237: 234: 233: 232: 231: 230: 229: 226: 220: 219: 216: 212: 208: 204: 202: 199: 195: 192: 187: 185: 177: 176: 173: 170: 165: 164: 161: 158: 154: 153: 152: 151: 148: 142: 138: 131: 130: 129: 128: 125: 116: 115: 111: 109: 108: 105: 96: 95: 91: 89: 88: 85: 82: 77: 75: 71: 67: 59: 54: 50: 46: 42: 41: 37: 33: 30: 25: 24: 20: 18: 1092: 1076: 1074: 1052: 1049:Llynrhychwyn 1033: 1017:Notuncurious 998: 971: 968:Welcome back 955: 940: 933: 873:BrynLlywelyn 858: 847: 832: 821:BrynLlywelyn 817: 808: 800: 790:to say that 785: 771:BrynLlywelyn 734: 728: 719: 709: 690: 675: 659: 637: 621:BrynLlywelyn 584:BrynLlywelyn 557: 539:my talk page 527:BrynLlywelyn 523: 518: 515: 507: 489: 478:BrynLlywelyn 474: 464: 456: 453: 442: 427: 411: 395: 380: 364: 348: 333: 317: 294:BrynLlywelyn 291: 287: 273: 259: 253:BrynLlywelyn 250: 221: 215:BrynLlywelyn 210: 207:Secret Terms 206: 205: 198:BrynLlywelyn 196: 190: 188: 183: 181: 147:BrynLlywelyn 143: 139: 135: 120: 104:BrynLlywelyn 100: 78: 63: 52: 15: 1070:Dafydd Goch 1056:Hogyn Lleol 885:Drachenfyre 877:Hogyn Lleol 809:Thanks. — 519:Enwau Eryri 511:Garth Celyn 496:minor edits 486:Minor edits 468:Drachenfyre 38:The website 1113:topic bans 977:Geaugagrrl 899:Stemonitis 730:Click here 648:Stemonitis 640:Talk:Wales 558:Regarding 543:Stemonitis 500:Stemonitis 239:certainty. 184:Catherine' 1109:site bans 944:Enaidmawr 881:Enaidmawr 724:vandalism 693:OrphanBot 666:image tag 568:this list 560:this edit 445:OrphanBot 418:image tag 398:OrphanBot 371:image tag 351:OrphanBot 324:image tag 132:Catherine 572:RHaworth 92:Response 72:and the 1078:Lindsay 869:CatlinJ 598:WP:CAPS 1099:. The 1001:Gildas 995:Gildas 959:Gowron 892:Blisco 605:(talk) 461:Hello! 270:Edward 84:(talk) 68:, the 913:ras52 906:garik 852:(or " 811:ras52 758:ras52 751:into 602:Telsa 81:Telsa 51:says 1133:talk 1060:talk 1021:talk 1008:and 733:for 716:diff 492:this 1093:Hi, 985:(C) 494:as 305:Deb 281:Deb 211:the 157:Deb 76:. 1135:) 1111:, 1062:) 1023:) 974:∞☼ 964:) 883:, 879:, 875:, 871:, 541:-- 505:. 1131:( 1058:( 1019:( 1013:, 981:/ 915:) 908:) 901:) 894:) 887:) 714:( 182:'

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index