202:) against the use of a blanket term. There I write, "As much as I favor a standardized language for encyclopedia articles, the immigration issue is close to my heart. Personally, I am willing to begrudge the use of the term "illegal". However, I tend to believe that instead of using a single term in every instance, we should allow for some lexical flexibility allow for greater precision in in order to account for the nuances in individual situations."
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proclaimed
Socialists or proponents of Trotskyism or other such ilk; yet none are listed in the "sources of oposition" column. It is obvious that your worldviews have a direct connection to your anti-war sentiments. Nor do you list "draft dodger" next to "consciencous objector". The hidding of agendas and hipocracy with the evoking of "neutral point of view" is amusing.
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any documents whatsover," but "without proper immigration documents." An undocumented border-crosser might have forged documents, or for that matter medical documents, or whatever. But feel free to write a proposal for "unauthorized," stealing whatever language is necessary from the proposal for "undocumented."
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As for the euphemism treadmill - well, lets worry about changing connotations when connotations change, we have enough of a problem in the short term to occupy us. And I wouldn't be too sure that the whole ideology of immigration won't change, with the kind of movement that can get a million people
923:
It doesn't. Not in the quoted section in the article, and not in the rest of the letter, which I just read. It does however contain a revealing quote saying that Massad "promote vile and insidious anti-Semitic hatred in the language of anti-Zionism" - ie
Schreiber's belief is that anti-Zionism is
433:
I'm on a different computer, but I will start a profile up later tonight. I will endeavor to be constructive as well. Currently there is a discussion on adding in "fellow traveler" into the "sources of opposition" section. The
Antiwar topics discussion page has the conversation between myself and
215:
I don't have much of a problem with "unauthorized immigrant," but I don't believe it's as common as "undocumented," and I'm afraid it may be something of a neologism - I've never heard it, at least. And "undocumented" does accurately describe people with overstayed visas - it doesn't mean "without
680:
I have indeed read the naming conventions discussion. In fact, I posted a comprehensive overview summarizing the case for "illegal immigrant" versus the other proposed terms several days ago. In this way I do indeed believe that I am "helping to contribute to a standard." I hope you don't think
491:
I realized from you, that it is smarter to ignore these wikipedians, let them bray on the talk page and only react when they change the text of the article itself. When I argue with these wikiusers, it gets them angry and emotional, and causes me to work harder in protecting what we have spent so
375:
I find it facinating that you invoke the "nuetral point of view" policy, when it is clear by looking at the links, that there is a definate biased agenda being set by what is listed. The current list of links is not neutral. Every objection to modificaitons I have seen so far have been from self
1110:
No problem. The article was mostly very neutral but not entirely in standard Wiki format, which I've tried to correct. I've also commented on the request for deletion page. I have strong opinions against deleting third-party candidates as non-notable. It's a minor part of the self-fulfilling
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If, as some dictionaries in their weasely "oh, we're just describing how people use the word" ways claim, "illegal" is indeed an adjective with two distinct meanings, one of which is "in a country in violation of its laws", then people wouldn't constantly be trying the "they're doing something
272:
My discussion of the meaning of "undocumented" above comes simply from how I've heard it used. It appears to be conventional, at least within the immigrant rights movement, to use it for all immigrants without proper and current legal authorization. The
American Heritage dictionary gives the
191:. The argument is essentially based on a rejection of permitting the law (i.e., legislators and law enforcement authorities) to be the standard by which issues are evaluated. This is particularly important here in Knowledge (XXG), where we are in the process of creating our own standards.
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anti-Semitism, and this is the basis for his view of Massad. There is, I suppose, a case to be made for this, although it rests on a highly suspicious and itself arguably anti-Semitic equation of Israel and
Judaism, but it suggests that Category:Anti-Zionists ought to be sufficient.
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illegal, so they're illegal immigrants" line of "argument"; that they are shows that it is indeed the same adjective being used, and that the people version is somehow thought of as an extension of the action version. (I do share your concern that this is dehumanising).
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Were it not for your definition of "undocumented", I would consider your proposal sound. Where does it come from? You can reply here since I have put this page on my watchlist. And I'll let the other editors know, but I don't know how soon I can do
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The reputation of the ADL... you know not of what you speak. The ADL has a reputation on the left as habitually smearing advocates of freedom for
Palestine as anti-Semites, and this reputation is well-earned, as the ANSWER articles demonstrate.
245:. It may be something of a neologism, as I know of no other authors who use the term. But were it to come into common use, it is likely that it would acquire a connotation that is just as negative as "illegal". We have the problem of the
1228:
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1142:
Sounds pretty fair to me. I'm not sure what "left-wing" means in any case. I wouldn't have described Benny Morris in that way - if "left-wing" means reporting the evidence, then I might be forced to describe myself in the same fashion!
824:. The page has been static for months, and the only comments we get are from wikipedians on the talk page. I trust you will protect the page from vandals, etc. I trust your edits. If you get in an edit war, please let me know, okay?
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I'm on sort of mission to demonize here, only to standardize. That includes abandoning potentially offensive terms such as "illegal alien" as well as imprecise neologisms like "undocumented worker". Feel free to respond to my post on
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Thanks. It's much better now. I'll take note and learn from your improvements. I agree with your opinion on censoring third party candidates. It's unfortunate if WikiPedia ends up emulating the bi-partisan bias in American mass media.
1100:, Libertarian candidate for Senator from California. I think you would be well suited to edit the page for neutrality in language, given your interest in California politics and as a Trotskyist clearly different political position.
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Secondly, the term "undocumented" is inaccurate for the 40% of unauthorized immigrants (in the United States, at least) who have overstayed their visas. These people have documentation, but it is just not current.
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I was very pleased to know that someone else was also not happy with some of what was written on the Rashid Khalidi page. It sure was very biased but now, with your contributions, it is more neutral. Good work.
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First of all, let me second the WikiThanks. The proposal is definitely something that should be discussed, though my personal opinion would be to avoid both terms at all costs, except in direct quotes.
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Actually you are misinfomed, the ADL speaks out against anti-semetism, racism and other hate speech. ANSWER hides behind it's name just the way other hate groups on the left and right do. MagicKirin
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I agree that lexical flexibility is good, especially in allowing the use of more specific terms, and that might be something you could add to the "Where possible, avoid controversial terms" section.
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Oh and finally I don't really know who's regularly involved in immigration editing. I'm primarily involved in war- and anti-war-related articles, but have had arguments on this issue come up on the
184:. I hope to add to it shortly. You may want to alert some of the editors who are active on immigration-related topics directly via their talkpages. I will likely do so if you don't get around to it.
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Where did I give the impression that I don't want my writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others? I do know Knowledge (XXG) policy - please be more specific. Thank you.
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My worldview does, of course, have a direct connection to my views on war. I assume yours does too. What it doesn't have a direct connection to is my Knowledge (XXG) edits. Please
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Your comments on ANSWER were inaccurate, but that's not the point. Your comments were uncited and controversial and therefore do not belong, regardless of their truth. See
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Morris is no longer in any meaningful sense left wing - he explicitly advocates ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, as the only alternative to giving up Zionism <<
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to a list of sources of anti-war opposition in disregard for Knowledge (XXG)'s neutral point of view policy. But prove me wrong - make your future edits constructive.
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The exception is only if the potentially libelous material is not sourced or poorly sourced. In this case it is reliably sourced, so the exception does not hold. --
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I was actually just hoping to make my arguments part of the discussion that will occur as part of your proposal--I had no intention of formulating a new proposal.
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You're right, it's not common, which is why it doesn't have the same stigma that "illegal" does, and is perhaps the reason it is used by Joseph Nevin, author of
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What is not neutral about the list of links? You spend a lot of time talking about agendas, but little demonstrating concrete problems. Just for you, I added
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There are accurate the reputation of the ADL speaks for itself. Also ANSWER can characterize itself as one thing, but the reality is something else.
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selection process is starting. We are looking to elect seven coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please
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if you agree with the link's value. By the way, you're welcome to ask for my vote to keep any information on this website. Thanks for your help!
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You may want to delete that stupid template below this message--every message people try to message you under the template modifies the template
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Uh, thanks, I guess, although I don't think that lesson can really be attributed to me. I've been sucked into talk-page debates, for example on
1051:). You look as if you're a valuable editor and I could really use some help a great link. I would ask you to review the discussion and vote
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article. When your block expires, feel free to edit other people's work mercilessly, but please make some effort to follow Knowledge (XXG)'s
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don't worry, i've written worse things than that. leave a text for a few months, and you never know what you'll find when you get back...
74:! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of topics related to military history.
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I think hearsay which does not quote Massad directly is certainly too poorly sourced for an accusation as serious as anti-Semitism.
158:, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around!
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election has begun. We will select seven coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of eleven candidates. Please
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There are a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—or little—you like:
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is updated quite regularly. You can watch it if you're interested; or, you can add it directly to your user page by including
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Hi! I got your username from the Association Inclusionist Wikipedians. I'm trying to work against a band of linkocrites (see
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Dkalkin, Please note: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.
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off work and in the streets just appearing, plus the longer-term demographic trends in the U.S. We can hope, at least...
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517:, but I've managed to avoid this one because I was tired of the topic just from doing so much work on the article.
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For the past six months, I have gone back and forth with wikipedians arguing that America is not an empire, on the
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My comments on ANSWER were entirely accurate; listen to the venon spewed at their rallies. Please reinstate them.
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There is an exception to the 3RR rule for biographies of living persons which I believe covers this case. See
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I am new to this process but thanks for straightening out my mistake with the disambiguation page. Podiatrist
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page. At first this was interesting, but it has now become very tiring. You have kept out of this argument.
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1. Not supported by written evidence: undocumented income tax deductions; undocumented accusations.
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section." If you're still in favor of "unauthorized immigrant," please do that, if you have time.
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Just a few things I want to mention: I argue for the use of "unauthorized immigrant" on
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If you get the chance, please read through my reasoning and let me know if you concur.
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talk page. If you could notify those people, that would be excellent. Thanks.
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Just some things to consider, and I look forward to a constructive discussion.--
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Some helpful Wikipedian subst-ed the template, so lets see if that fixes it.
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Interested in a particular area of military history? We have a number of
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My friend, by the evidence here, you are definitely the misinformed one.
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VIII - October 2006
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue IX - November 2006
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prophecy that helps keep American politics static and reactionary...
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Allegations of state terrorism by United States of America/strawpolls
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue X - December 2006
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WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006
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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the
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Talk:Overseas_expansion_of_the_United_States#Include_other_maps.3F
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Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - August 2006
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look fine to me. BobFromBrockley seems to know what he's doing.
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I mentioned one of your comments (I think it was yours) on the
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Military history WikiProject coordinator election - vote phase!
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Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV - June 2006
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Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue V - July 2006
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I think I'll add the dictionary definitions to the proposal.
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I believe the Schreiber letter quotes Massad directly. --
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Allegations_of_state_terrorism_by_United_States_of_America
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Thirdly, I have argued in other places (most recently on
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Thanks again! Hope we'll see some real discussion now!
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When I say "write a proposal" above, I mean "add a new
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Interested in working on a more complete article? The
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Oh, I see. You're the person who was vandalizing the
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points to most of the useful pages within the project.
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I would like to encourage you to review the entry on
599:An article that you have been involved in editing,
400:. I'm not sure what bias I've eliminated, though.
601:List of slogans and chants supporting immigration
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683:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (immigration)
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881:WP:3RR#Reverting_potentially_libellous_material
109:; it will normally be delivered as a link, but
839:No problem. Good luck with other projects.
146:Want to know how good our articles are? The
8:
644:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
77:A few features that you might find helpful:
58:Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!
778:You may be intersted in this map discussion
317:I'll comment on the proposal's page later.
820:I think I am going to unwatch myself from
763:, you are welcome to join us if you like.
267:Where compromises are not possible, use...
143:that focus on specific nations or periods.
572:Thanks for notifying me. The changes to
532:Can you take a second to look this over:
935:Thanks for your contributions on Khalidi
701:Military history WikiProject coordinator
652:Military history WikiProject coordinator
554:, and doesn't stay on your talk page.
1132:Benny Morris is no longer "left wing"
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136:departments would welcome your help!
865:I believe you have violated 3RR on
495:Thanks for the valuable lessen. :)
756:Thanks for adding back the quote:
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1233:This is an automated delivery by
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121:Starting some new articles? Our
528:Re:Talk:American_Empire#New_edit
792:Also you may be interested in:
125:outline some things to include.
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34:Great job. I am impressed.
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379:Have a happy 4th of July.
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759:. I have moved on to:
414:Merry Christmas to you.
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134:collaboration
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394:draft dodger
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1043:Please help
995:—Preceding
947:Marwan1234
434:Schiemweb.
273:following:
141:task forces
1001:MagicKirin
963:MagicKirin
1235:grafikbot
1209:grafikbot
1183:grafikbot
1082:Grafikbot
942:Marwan123
742:grafikbot
715:grafikbot
706:vote here
687:TheKaplan
666:grafikbot
636:grafikbot
430:Dkalkin,
409:cowardice
372:Dkalkin,
1159:contribs
1147:unsigned
1057:Cochese8
1009:contribs
997:unsigned
971:contribs
959:unsigned
798:Signed:
536:Thanks.
498:Signed:
440:Thanks.
360:policy.
169:Proposal
980:WP:NPOV
858:3RR on
789:page.
324:RandomP
258:Rockero
207:Rockero
1123:Terjen
1113:Kalkin
1102:Terjen
1034:Kalkin
1020:Kalkin
984:Kalkin
951:ANSWER
926:Kalkin
905:Kalkin
885:Kalkin
841:Kalkin
752:Thanks
581:Kalkin
519:Kalkin
515:ANSWER
418:Kalkin
362:Kalkin
345:Kalkin
293:Kalkin
234:Kalkin
230:ANSWER
221:Kalkin
102:there.
1138:: -->
1137:: -->
1136:: -->
826:Travb
800:Travb
765:Travb
556:Travb
538:Travb
500:Travb
256:it.--
249:here.
36:Travb
16:<
1222:The
1196:The
1170:The
1155:talk
1069:The
1053:keep
1005:talk
967:talk
830:talk
804:talk
769:talk
729:The
699:The
650:The
623:The
560:talk
542:talk
504:talk
463:The
443:V/R
382:V/R
132:and
88:The
81:Our
50:Arre
1161:) .
973:) .
915:Avi
895:Avi
871:Avi
744:--
685:.
332:V/R
1157:•
1084:-
1011:)
1007:•
982:.
969:•
832:)
806:)
771:)
717:-
668:-
562:)
544:)
506:)
100:}}
94:{{
1153:(
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