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for a while, but I can assure you that the article itself isn't going to be nominated for FAC anytime soon (the momentum behind the Texas COTM seems to have waned lately -- BTW, you should join). My point being that it'll still be there, probably utterly unchanged, when you get back. I'd welcome any properly sourced criticism in the article. Hope your break is good; I'm about to head to Costa Rica myself. Ā·
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Hi DB, sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to you. I'm afraid I really know nothing about the subject, so I would feel uncomfortable trying to summarize the related issues because I'm basically proceeding from a base of no knowledge on the topic. Anyway, I read that you're going on break/vacation
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Saying it in my onw words: air mass is heated at the equator, it rises, generating a pressure gradient that induces air from latitudes away from the equator to move towards the equator. Low altitude air mass will move to the equator, and the risen air will move at high altitude away from the equator.
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Hadley pointed out that equatorial solar heating would make tropical air lighter than air at high latitudes. Tropical air would thus rise, high latitude air would sink, winds at the surface would blow towards the equator, and winds aloft would blow towards the poles. Hadley realized that the rotation
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Animations are a lot of kilobytes; 60 to a 100 kilobytes per animation. That is no problem at all for people with ADSL, but there is still a percentage of people with dial-in connection to internet. I am undecided about the animations with rotating weights connected by pistons that are still in the
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Here is the problem I ran into. I am faced with opponents who are not buying the rotational dynamics I describe. Initially I felt it was so obvious that I did not list references in the scientific literature that the article is based on. This led my opponents to believe that the story I present was
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No less than fifty different meteorology-related articles link to the coriolis effect article, so it is really up to the coriolis effect article to deliver the goods. The article I am writing is of course based on articles that have been written by specialists on the subject of wind dynamics; it is
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in moving to the equator. Hadley assumed that the air would still have the 400 meters per second tangential velocity, so he expected the air to only come up 60 meters per second short, (coming up short with respect to the 465 meters per second that corresponds to co-rotating with the Earth at the
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Let me give a comparison. When people first tried to figure out for themselves what it is that propels rockets, they would often assume that the exhaust of the rocket is pushing against the air, compressing the air, and this compressed air would then push the rocket forward. That is a tempting
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explanation, but it fails outside the atmosphere. Outside the atmosphere the rocket exerts the same thrust, while there is no atmosphere. So sometimes people latch on to a wrong explanation, and sometimes it is very hard to persuade people to think outside the habitual patterns.
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When air mass from 30 degrees latitude flows towards the equator, something happens that is comparable to the example of sitting in a rotating chair with weights in your hands and you are rotating. If you extend your arms your rotation rate will go down, and vice versa.
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You can read the the following two publcations by Anders
Persson, but while the content is the same, his terminology is quite different from mine, reading them takes rather a lot of conceptual translation, so the articles may not be helpful to you at this stage.
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My version of the article is a bit "overengineered" now, I think. Much of it is not written for the interested reader, but written to persuade my opponents that the story that is being presented is solid. Hopefully the article can be trimmed down in the future
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First: my background is physics rather than meteorology. My knowledge of history is second hand. My source is the meteorologist Anders
Persson, who I believe to be very meticulous in his historical research, going back to original publications.
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That is the sort of situation I find myself in, in presenting in the article the rotational dynamics in the atmosphere. My opponents are accustomed to an appealing, but actually wrong explanation, and I have not been able to dissuade them.
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Suppose there is no friction or any other influence, how fast will air mass from, say 30 degrees latitude, flow when it arrives at the equator? (this is a huge simplification, ignoring everything but the major contributor)
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At the equator the circumference of the Earth is 40.000 kilometers (Yeah, I'm gonna go all metric on you). That corresponds to a tangential velocity of 465 meters per second. ( 40 000 kilometer divided by 86 400 seconds
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because it lacked sources. WP:BLP encurages us to be quite strict about this kind of thing. The stuff I removed is still in the history, so feel free to revert me when you fine a source or two.
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I hope you have a good time munching on this stuff. It was fascinating journey for me to learn about these things in the publications of Anders
Persson. Very cool newtonian dynamics. --
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of the earth would cause the surface wind blowing toward the equator to veer towards the west, thus producing the system of trade winds familiar to the mariners of his day.
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At a latitude of 30 degrees you are not 6370 kilometes from the Earth's axis, but (6370 x cos(30) ) = 5510 kilometers, tangential velocity there is 400 meters per second.
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I am currently working on a version that is aimed at merging the various inputs, while maintaining inner consistency and of course presenting solid physics. Here is the
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I really enjoyed your version of the
Coriolis Effect article, and I found it to be clear and educational. I would be sad to see any of your excellent animations go.
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article has been a project of mine. Unfortunately, the current version of the article is contradicting itself, because of edits by disagreeing contributors.
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I have completed another animation. I will soon replace the public version of of the coriolis effect article with the version that I have been preparing.
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I'm curious: have you learned what it was exactly that Hadley had in mind, and how he was later corrected? Hadley can't be blamed for his mistake, even
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PDF-file. 17 pages. A general discussion by Anders
Persson of various aspects of the coriolis effect, including Foucault's Pendulum and Taylor columns.
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I need support, I need it really badly. I hope you can help me, by thinking the logic through, so that you get confidence in defending the content.
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The article seems to load plenty fast for me, but I am not experienced enough (or allowed, maybe) to know if the article is relatively large. --
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Also you may find possibilities for trimming the article down (I even sacrificed discussing the trade winds to reduce the length of article)
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All the animations have been manufactured by me. Some of them mayhave to go, too much animations make the amount of KiloBytes very large.
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Rotational dynamics. As the weights are drawn in, the angular velocity increases. As the weights slide out, angular velocity decreases.
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to
Knowledge! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
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The length of the text is in the 20-kilobytes range, which is no problem at all, the kilobytes load is in the gif-animations.
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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
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Concerning your cause: As this is a subject that I am fascinated by, I would like to spend a few days sussing this out.
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that was a good edit in the meteorology article, removing the inner contradiction, and retaining Hadley's achievement.
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PDF-file. 13 pages. A discussion of the physics of the
Coriolis effect by the meteorologist Anders Persson.
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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!Ā --
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The tendency to move in socalled inertial oscillations once air mass has been set in motion.
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The meteorology article has been a bit of a project for you, and over the past months the
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I hope I have aroused your interest. Please have look at the work-in-progress version. --
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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So when air slides from 30 degrees latitude to the
Equator, it has only about
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Enjoy your stay. Your brain may be collected from luggage upon departure.
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Hadley assumed that the tangential velocity of the air would be
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meters per second of tangential velocity left, when it arrives.
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The mechanism I describe is correct, but it relatively unknown.
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Inertial oscillation as seen from non-rotating point of view.
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Hadley was of course right in recognizing the Hadley cells.
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Work-in-progress-version of the coriolis effect article
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Regarding breaking the wiki, it can't be done, so just
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rotational dynamics in machines with rotating parts
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155:. Honest to god there isn't.
83:The five pillars of Knowledge
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103:How to write a great article
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