673:(be careful of course to be super-polite and comment on edits not editors), allow a short discussion and then a simple straw poll of editors to show the various views (I would suggest allowing at least 4 days both for people to have an opportunity to participate and also as this helps slow down the previous pace of edit warring) and then allow an admin to consider the consensus and enact (whether that be myself, Samir, JzG or any other admin). Then further proposals (one at a time) can be discussed, agreed upon and enacted. Hope this allays your concerns re the version curently protected and helps set out how a more (OK I agree, forced) collaborative approach may be taken in the development of this article. Finally may I wish you a peaceful New Year.
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contributor, however, she needs to understand that engaging in personal commentary and attacks on other editors, attacking administrators for trying to do their jobs, speculating about other editors' alleged ulterior motives etc breaches
Knowledge policies. I believe that most, if not all, of the administrators and editors involved do not wish to have Jance banned, but rather want to see her modify her behaviour and attitude.
247:--I admit it -- I don't get it. The first photo looks like regular normal breasts. The woman might be pregnant -- I believe whoever says she is -- but it doesn't look particularly like a pregnant woman's breasts. The caption seems like an excuse for having the photo there. Maybe readers don't know what breasts look like, and that's why this article has so many photos, and needs one right at the beginning.
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their lives than women who don't. There are 5 studies showing that women who undergo breast augmentation are twice as likely to kill themselves as other plastic surgery patients and other women of the same age and social class. But frankly, it was easier to just delete the 3 sentences about breast augmentation rather than add a few paragraphs. I didn't revise the content on breast reconstruction.
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393:--Thanks! There is an interesting research literature on cultural definitions of breast beauty, I'll see if I can add some of it. For example, in France, older women go topless on the beach and don't feel unattractive -- most women who looked like that in the US wouldn't consider going topless without breast implants.
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Today I was thinking it might be a good idea to have a separate article on breast implant complications and so I did a search and discovered an article called Breast implant/Risks and debate. Apparently it was created as some kind of working page, intended as a sub-page of the Breast implant article.
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If we're going to have a section on plastic surgery, then I would like to add some sociological analyses from books about the
American culture's obsession with "perfect breasts" as well as psychological studies showing that women who undergo breast augmentation tend to feel worse about themselves and
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appear to be pregnant. In reading over the comments on the talk page, the image was apparently added because it's a high quality photograph, and, yes, because it's attractive. (Apparently the photo isn't attractive enough for some people...I reverted a change a few days ago where a guy substituted
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Dr
Zuckerman, I just wanted to assure you that we are not seeking to have Jance banned. An RfC is part of the official dispute resolution process and bans, blocks and other sanctions do not come as a result of it. The RfC on Jance is not an attempt to sanction her, but simply a venue to discuss her
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Regarding the plastic surgery section, I'm sure it needs work, but even if the section is imperfect, it seems at least acceptable...factually accurate and neutrally phrased. It seems preferable to leave it in place until you get a chance to write a better section. Unless you feel that the section
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I will have a look at it, but please, stop calling Dr Oliver a "vandal" and referring to his edits as "vandalism". Under the policy, vandalism is "any addition, deletion, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of
Knowledge." Dr Oliver's edits are a content
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Over the last nine months, several administrators have repeatedly tried to explain to Jance that
Knowledge has a strict policy against personal attacks, but she continues making attacks and has even replied to administrative warnings with more personal attacks. In fact, she has previously been
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I am sorry to read that you have been subjected to personal attacks yourself. If I had known about this at the time, I would have intervened, however, the bad behaviour of other editors does not excuse more bad behaviour from Jance. I do believe that she can be a very productive and valuable
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Whoever created it didn't know that you cannot create sub-pages of articles. There's a feature in the software that prevents it, so the page was actually created as an article. It can't stay in the mainspace as it is because it has a sub-page disclaimer, so I've moved it to my userspace,
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I don't have strong feelings about it one way or another. It seems to be factually accurate, but I don't object to removing it or (preferably) rewriting it or putting it in some perspective. That sentence just got added back automatically when I reinstated the previous version of the
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Hi Dr. Zuckerman. The RfC on User:Jance is not calling for her to be banned, but is a request for her and the community to comment on her conduct. Many editors view her comments as inconducive to editing, and these need to addressed if we are to make any progress on
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policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should
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Of course, Dr
Zuckerman. I'll look into it now and will keep you posted. Thanks for removing the link from those pages. Since Knowledge became so popular it has become a target for spammers and it's a constant battle to keep those kinds of links out.
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By the way, I was at a meeting with pediatricians today, who told me that 13-year old boys are using illegal drugs so that they can develop a 6-pack. If this continues, boys will be just as depressed about how they look as girls are.
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As the director of a research center on women's and kids health, we actually get emails from girls and women of all ages worried because their breasts don't look perfect. So, let's not have a wikipedia article contributing to that.
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Not exactly deleted; I reversed your deletions, then explained my reasoning. And all versions of the article are readily available in the page history, so nothing is lost. I hope you find the time to contribute to the article. --
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on
November 28. I gave them a warning and I'll block them if they do it again. I put those articles on my watchlist and will try to keep an eye on them, but if it happens again, please feel free to give me a yell. I also did a
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Hi, thanks for message/query (NB Fvasconcellos moved it from my user page, to correctly be on my user talk page). Page protection has been used not to endorse or fixate on any specific version (see the humorous essay of
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at the beginning of the article, which was part of the argument on the talk page. I just took a look at the web site you suggested; it seems completely appropropriate to include as an external link in the
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a blatantly pornographic image.) In any event, I don't have any strong personal feelings about what image should be there, except that it should be a high quality photograph. I do think we should have
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Dr
Zuckerman, Sarah seems to be wiki-breaking for a while. I left a note on JFW's page instead, since he seems to be taking some interest. Looks like something happened to Jance, too.
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Welcome to
Knowledge. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, please do not add promotional material to articles or other Knowledge pages.
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As far as the BI complications are concerned, I think it might be better to have a separate article, linked from the main BI article, where they can be discussed in full detail.
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as it exists now is actually harmful? My concern about simply deleting it is that someone else will simply reinstate it (as I did..but at least I explained my reasoning to you.)
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Dr
Zuckerman, I'm very sorry but I probably won't have much time to help out very much as I am currently very busy irl. You might be better off asking administrators
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blocked seven times by five different administrators and at least three of those blocks were specifically for repeatedly violating the No Personal Attacks policy.
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I found the comments about "some people think that older women's breasts look unattractive" offensive. And, I don't think it adds anything to the article.
366:--I just fixed some of the errors, including once again correcting the spelling of "aging" so please don't revert it again. I'll try to add more tomorrow
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Hi Dr Zuckerman. I checked out the article but no one had edited it again since you and Jance. I will try to keep an eye on it and help out as I can.
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If the purpose of the photos is to educate, how about using some photos from this website, showing a diversity rather than mostly idealized versions:
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or something like that would be a good idea? If we did create such an article, we could add a "See also" section to the main breast implant page.
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article, but we (apparently) can't use any of those photos directly. They're watermarked, and the page has a copyright disclaimer at the bottom.
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Also, I didn't follow your reasoning for removing the plastic surgery section. It could possibly be trimmed, with a pointer to
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Hi, I can understand why you questioned whether the woman in that photo was pregnant. The picture originally came from
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to
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By the way, we have far too few experts on Knowledge, and I'm thrilled to see an expert working on these articles. --
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I reverted it back. Regardless of the validity of the various links, he needs to start discussing without reverting.
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PS I don't see DrOliver as having made the last version prior to protection, but rather the anon
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338:-- Thanks for your note, but its 2 am and you deleted my work! Not the best use of my time.
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I had the same impression as you...she appears to be a very healthy young woman; she does
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to make sure they hadn't put the links in any other articles but nothing else came up.
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dispute, not vandalism and many people take such accusations as a personal attack.
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Thanks for the revert. I just placed a warning on that user's
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Best of luck, Drzuckerman, and most importantly, have fun!
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I won't revert your changes again, Doctor. Best regards.
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article. Here are a few perfunctory tips to hasten your
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but they didn't link spam any plastic surgery articles.
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for more details, but it seems reasonable to include
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1734:. In keeping with Knowledge's
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1860:. For the Election committee,
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1821:ArbCom elections are now open!
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1497:Drzuckerman
675:David Ruben
623:Sarah Ewart
612:and edited
545:Sarah Ewart
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395:Drzuckerman
378:Jim Douglas
368:Drzuckerman
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142:Peer review
24:Hello, and
1846:topic bans
1684:robtex.com
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701:Dikke poes
384:(contribs)
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1012:Spamcheck
952:LWallsMPH
901:Spamcheck
790:Spamcheck
592:That IP,
578:talk page
287:something
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150:Utilities
96:Explore,
91:Help Desk
30:Knowledge
1756:creating
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572:implants
570:silicone
516:Dr Ruben
473:contribs
314:article.
122:Civility
1772:linking
1752:editing
1717:soapbox
1696:AboutUs
1680:tracert
1262:AboutUs
1246:tracert
28:to the
26:Welcome
1832:. The
1790:, and
1747:when:
1692:Google
1661:x-wiki
1640:COIBot
1592:Google
1580:status
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633:Alison
582:Alison
302:ptosis
292:Breast
229:Breast
203:Breast
160:, and
59:, and
1741:avoid
1672:WHOIS
1649:count
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690:Sarah
559:Sarah
512:Samir
415:Samir
412:. --
1866:talk
1811:talk
1807:Hu12
1676:RDNS
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1282:talk
1242:RDNS
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730:Scmd
616:and
598:talk
580:. -
532:here
479:and
467:talk
445:Spam
418:เคงเคฐเฅเคฎ
210:here
192:T@lk
87:help
68:NPOV
48:and
1826:Hi,
1764:in
1754:or
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666:.
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282:not
187:JFW
102:fun
72:POV
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