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Gamespy, various blogs, etc. which then distorts the historical record entirely. This is why I feel strongly about the issue. The situation is only made worse by the fact that pretty much every history of the video game industry written thus far contains numerous errors, so it often takes comparisons between many different works and examination of the underlying primary sources to figure out the facts. I am not a professional video game historian like Marty, and I do not have access to caches of primary documents generated by companies in the industry as he does for Atari, but I am probably more well-read on the subject than nearly every other editor on
Knowledge (XXG), as I have read hundreds (maybe even thousands by now, I don't keep count) of newspaper articles, magazine articles, press releases, first-hand accounts, etc., and even conducted a small number of interviews of my own. That is not to imply that my opinion gets to trump all others on Knowledge (XXG) or that I don't need to present good sources for my positions just like everybody else, but it does mean that I do know what I am talking about when I describe the generally sad state of video game history scholarship, though people like Marty are doing their bit to improve things.
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people with more knowledge of the subject than himself is not conducive to compromise or creating a factual article. I concede that I come on too strongly sometimes and am prone to defensiveness, but if you look at my record (and I have been here a long time, two years longer than you), I do tend to prove my point, reach a compromise, or stop pushing my position in the end. I stand by my statement, however, that editors like
Bridies do more harm than good when they try to get involved in evaluating information when they lack a sufficient understanding of the topic. I know I would never even attempt to enter a debate on an article about mathematics or physics because I would not be able to provide any constructive analysis and would get in the way. Well, not sure if this rant accomplishes anything, but there you have it.
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included without challenge. This does not just involve the current situation, but also his extended disagreement with Marty over the whole parallax scrolling thing as well. When alternate theories exist for an issue or multiple people involved in an event give different accounts, or the same person gives different accounts at different times, then
Knowledge (XXG) needs to include them all, because "truth" in this case is inherently unknowable. In matters of objective fact, Knowledge (XXG) should not include material clearly provable as erroneous. When one secondary source conflicts with a dozen primary and secondary sources on an issue, especially on an issue tangential to the author's research, then including it does not balance the article, it distorts it.
1020:(This one is really bizarre and happens in two parts. In the first edit, he adds a claim of 200,000 units in sales in two weeks and fastest-selling game ever with a Crash magazine article as reference. I tracked down that article, and it just discusses the merits of the arcade game with no mention of the home versions or sales at all. In the second edit, he adds a second magazine source to back up those claims, but that article says the game sold 200,000 copies in "two minutes" not two weeks, making it a figure of speech, and then says this makes it "just about" the fastest selling game ever, so it is not actually making a claim to speed of sell though).
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on other topics. I am afraid that without intervention, the cumulative effect of his edits will begin to undermine the integrity of wikipedia's video game articles, particularly since he presents an appearance of delivering authoritative information through sourcing when the source is not making the claim attributed to it. Note that I have not discussed any of this with him directly yet, as I wanted to proceed cautiously and in a non-confrontational or accusatory manner, so whatever comes of this, bringing him into the loop should be the first step. I am not trying to blindside or trap him.
568:, and now he's preparing to work on Full Throttle. He says he's done with Monkey Island for now due to time constraints, and I offered to write the Reception section for him, since I don't have much trouble locating reviews for old games. I don't know what your schedule looks like, but this sounds to me like a good opportunity to take another Lucasarts article to GA. If you could condense the remaining post-release material (much of it cruft) into a coherent Legacy section, we'd be a Gameplay and Plot section away from completion. What do you think?
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489:, but I find that one very complicated. In fact, the last times I edited Cloud's was using Lara's as an example... XD ). Everything seems fine, but I still requested a copyedit in the guild of copyeditors. However, I thought that it would better if you could take a look in the article considering your experience at editing and see what else could be improved before a nomination to GA. Regards.
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above, Jagged 85. Jagged is a prolific wikipedia contributor whom I do not believe acts with malice in his editing, but seems to go on massive editing sprees where he does not read sources closely and misrepresents their contents. I have had occasion to correct some of his edits in the past, but became really concerned when I learned he was the subject of an
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Hi Guy, thanks for the offer, but I honestly don't think I'm involved in WP enough, or involved at the project enough to have anything worth saying for the newsletter. Thanks for your continued participation at the wikiproject, especially with the other demands on your time. All the best for the new
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I see. Thanks. I already requested a copyedit to the guild months ago, so I don't whether it will be copy-edited. I'm having some tests this week, so I will be a bit busy. Anyways, I expanded a bit the description section to explain a bit Naruto's transformations, but I still don't know if it's okay
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So for those who haven't heard about the
Recruitment Centre yet, you may be wondering why there is a Good article icon with a bunch of stars around it (to the right). The answer? WikiProject Good articles will be launching a Recruitment Centre very soon! The centre will allow all users to be taught
1023:
Now, anyone can make an honest mistake, lord knows I have accidentally added bad info to wikipedia before, but Jagged has established a pattern. The edits sourced above are only a small sampling on video game articles, and you can see his history of these problems goes back much farther and deeper
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You're a good editor and a patient guy and I admire that, so certainly no offense at your unsolicited advice. I tend to be a bit more strident, which sometimes is fine and other times gets a little extreme I do admit. I am used to getting into heated discussions on policy debates, as I often take
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on a peer review some time ago, but got brief responses. Do you have any recommendations? I have doubts regarding whether creation section should be splitted. Also, I noticed that there are several writers giving an in-depth analysis of the character's role in Metal Gear Solid 2 (he represents the
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I will not go into great detail about harmful edits on your talk page, as that is best handled on a dedicated topic or page, but a few examples bear mentioning so you see what I am saying. He has used one clearly mistaken source to change an article when that source is contradicted by every other
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of the same pattern of behavior. That caused me to look over some of his video game edits more closely, and it seems the same is happening here. Note that not all of his edits have been bad. In fact, he has uncovered some great stuff such as new install base figures for the Sega Master System in
932:
I noticed you, Sabre, Electroguv and
Blackwing did such a great job with the Monkey Island article, I was wondering if you could improve the Broken Sword 1 article. I fixed the article quite a lot, and its mostly finished, the only problem remaning is the overly-long-and-detailed plot section, and
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is a guideline of the main points that should be addressed during a recruitment session...you can also take an entire different approach if you wish!) If you think you will not have the time to recruit any users at this time but are still interested in becoming a recruiter, you can still add your
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installments are supposedly independent stories with different settings and main characters, they feature identical elements that define the franchise. Plots center on a group of heroes battling a great evil while exploring the characters' internal struggles and relationships. The series has been
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Just wanted to give a heads up that my latest article in RetroGamer is coming out now (100th issue special). It's about the crash, hopefully clears up a lot of the more common missconceptions (which seem to be throughout the crash article here). At least as much as I could in the limited space I
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I have noticed a disturbing trend in video game articles in the last few months that I think warrants attention, but probably also warrants a more diplomatic touch than I sometimes bring to a conversation, which is why I am approaching you with this on your talk page. It involves the user named
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Bridies was sarcastic from his very first revert, which led me to take a couple of cheap shots at him that I know I should not have, but his baffling disregard of information provided by people like Marty and myself that have researched the industry in some depth and the way he tries to belittle
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If you are not interested in becoming a recruiter, you can still help. In some cases a nominator may have an issue with an "inexperienced" editor (the recruitee) reviewing one of their nominations. To minimize the chances of this happening, if you are fine with a recruitee reviewing one of your
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I know you are gone and all and may not be coming back, but I just wanted to amend this to say that this user is not doing nearly so much editing of video game articles now so the problem may have solved itself. Just did not want you to see this if you come back and think its still a concern.
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The problem with not weeding out unreliable information on
Knowledge (XXG) is that in areas with an underdeveloped scholarship like video game history, inaccurate information can have a really bad ripple effect. Unfortunately, what is written on Knowledge (XXG) often becomes fact for IGN, 1up,
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The situation on the shoot 'em up page is, unfortunately, a bit different. Bridies has proven himself to be completely uninterested in fact, preferring instead to take an extreme position on the verifiability not truth essay by declaring that any fact in a generally reliable source should be
1875:. Now, one of the most important criteria is that you have at least 15 independent reviews. If you are reading this, you are likely 3 (or less) reviews short, so if you review another couple nominations, you can become a recruiter! If interested, make sure you meet the criteria, read
1852:
Hello! Now, some of you might have already received a similar message a little while ago regarding the
Recruitment Centre, so if you have, there is no need to read the rest of this. This message is directed to users who have reviewed between 12-14 Good article nominations and
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Jinnai's pretty certain that it's not possible due to copyrighted material being shown (my guess being here the characters), but wouldn't that be like saying we couldn't use a photo of a musician with the photographer's permission just because he has a Mickey Mouse tattoo
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Not a problem. My site (atarihq.com) is up for another reliability discussion (the previous discussion resulted in reliable) thanks to this discussion, apparently dreamfocus wasn't happy with the previous discussion. Would appreciate your neutral opinion there as well -
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notes. I am concerned about his notes regarding that the article should actually focus more in the in-universe traits from the character to the point of creating wikia-like sections like abilties and personality, so I sent him a message. Anything you might want to add?
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Hi there guys - Electroguv here. After some thinking I decided that Full
Throttle can wait (oh, of whom am I trying to deceive...I just simply don't have enough info on the game's development) and I would like to help on SMI and Fate of Atlantis if possible. Thank you.
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up there as well. Unfortunately, he vanished back in August and has not returned. Seems like that happens to a lot of the best editors. I'd be up for completing his work any time you want. Until then, I guess I'll just write the SMI Reception section and bide my time.
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Anyway, I sincerely hope you will give this matter some attention, as it appears to be serious. I am not asking you to do the legwork or take the lead in finding and presenting evidence; I just want a neutral and diplomatic set of eyes as this situation develops.
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Need your experienced neutral opinion over at Atari 5200. An anonymous IP started an edit war with two accounts regarding an IGN reference (he doesn't want it there). It's calmed down enough that it now turned in to an actual discussion amongst other editors.
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1012:(source discusses the importance of scrolling and the fact that the NES is capable of hardware scrolling, but does not claim that the NES was the first console with hardware scrolling, which is inaccurate); and he has misrepresented info in sources
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I spoke with
Nolelover and we're interested in working to achieve A class status for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. We would appreciate any tips you could give us, especially your thoughts on what aspects of the article need to be improved. Thanks.
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I expanded the description section to include more information as commented by the GA reviewer, but do you think that's enough? The reviewer did not reply back so before requesting a copy-edit, I would like to know if the information is enough.
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policy positions that are legit but a little on the creative side, but that is the kind of discussion I think helps
Knowledge (XXG). Argument can be as useful as conciliation in the right circumstances to pull out where everybody stands.
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If you are interested in becoming a recruiter but do not meet the 15 review requirement, you can still add your name to the list of recruiters and put your status as "Not Available" until you have reviewed enough nominations.
1910:. By adding your name to this list, chances are that your nomination will be reviewed more quickly as the recruitee will be asked to choose a nomination from the list of nominators that are OK with them reviewing the article.
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player) as well as his actions in following game (how he is a different type of hero from main protagonist Solid Snake) and I was wondering whether it could listed as a sub-section within reception. Any thoughts? Regards.
1922:
A message will be sent out to all recruiters regarding the date when the Recruitment Centre will open when it is determined. The message will also contain some further details to clarify things that may be a bit
1155:
Hi there, I recall you had a "Making of The Strike Series" Retro Gamer article, used in the Desert Strike article. Just wondering if there's anything useful in there for either Soviet or Nuclear Strike. There's
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I removed Warshaw's statements on ET because he is not a valid source for making such a claim; he may have programmed the game, but that gives him no expertise or special knowledge on how Atari disposed of it.
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No problem with resuming this after the holidays, take as much time as you need. Quick note, though, I'm gonna make one adjustment to your improvements to the cover image's page while I'm thinking of it...
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364:, I thought you might like to know that I have requested that the article be reviewed for Good Article status again: perhaps you would be interested in contributing this time around, too?
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Hey Gib. I was thinking that instead of adding a featured editor this quarter, can we have like a "From the editors" section to reflect the progress this project accomplished this year?
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Removed the other media image and expanded the caption for the Part II image. I found one sketch that talked about Naruto's Part II design but I don't know if it would more suitable.
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Europe, but he appears to be distorting the truth regularly, and he makes similar edits across multiple pages in such rapid succession that it is hard to catch them all.
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The main task of a recruiter is to teach users that have never reviewed a Good article nomination how to review one. To become a recruiter, all you have to do is meet
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1517:. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are
1015:(Uses a Retro Gamer article to give 2 million SMS sales in Brazil, but article states that Tec Toy sold 2 million systems by 1996, meaning SMS, Genesis, and Saturn)
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in the article regarding the game in some fashion, but I recall a long while back you were trying to do something similar with a Simpson's game. What came of that?
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how to review Good article nominations by experts just like you! However, in order for the Recruitment Centre to open in the first place, we need some volunteers:
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I was wondering if you had the chance to over the article once more, or if those couple of edits you made a couple of weeks ago were the result of that effort. –
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video games, especially those released in the 2000s, were released on several platforms. Several companies have developed entries in the franchise, including
1883:. (One of the great things about being a recruiter is that there is no set requirement of what must be taught and when. Instead, all the content found in the
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happened, not that he knows it did or did not happen. Such a vague source (total speculation by a layman) doesn't justify inclusion of a contentious claim.
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I can add some other great events that happened to the project this year. Abd I can ask David if he can hold off his feature til next quarter.
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275:, which has now passed. The list is now much better than it was at the start of the FLC, and your input helped make it as good as it is now! –
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Since you were involved in the original discussion to split the video game generation templates, I thought you'd want to be involved in the
1918:. I look forward to seeing this program bring new reviewers to the Good article community and all the positive things it will bring along.
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in scraping together enough for separate articles for those games, or at least improving their coverage within the series article. Thanks,
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The article managed to become a GA! Thanks for your work! I hope it can be used as an example to other articles from the project. Regards.
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have issues unaddressed from their reviews. The problem is that I don't know what the problems are. What do you see as major problems?
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FYI, I'll be out of town from tomorrow through Sunday, so if you post a reply and get no response after a day or two, that's why.
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1406:. It has also introduced many features now common in role-playing video games and has been credited with helping to popularize
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Hi. While you are occupied with expanding the Development section, can I make some corrections to the Plot section? Thanks,
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1003:(all reliable accounts point to 1980 release); he has cited to a source for information not contained within that source
2189:. X-Men characters also frequently appear in Marvel games that focus on several of its comic book franchises, including
1257:. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director
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based on the lack of responses from the reviewers. Do you think it should moved back how it previously was? Cheers.
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564:--is dramatically expanding Lucasarts adventure game articles. He just finished a meaty Development section for
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I believe I follow you...though I've often used Knowledge (XXG), I have never attempted an edit or contribution.
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2025:. If you think it is necessary to change the main date, you can request it with the featured list directors
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nominations under the supervision of the recruiter, please add your name to the list at the bottom of
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Thank you for quality articles on the culture of science fantasy role-playing video games, such as
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name to the list of recruiters but just fill in the "Status" parameter with "Not Available".
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This is something I wanted to ask you about personally. I'm looking to make use of
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games#Trimming_the_sidebar
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even though it was already copyedited. Do you think it really needs another one?
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to reduce the usage of in-universe information and expand out of universe using
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
1986:
Consensus for whether there should be a separate section Lords of Shadow series
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Template talk:Castlevania series#Separate section for Lords of Shadow series?
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I've nominated PN03 to be part of the Capcom Five Good Topic. See the nom
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Thanks. I knew there was RS problems. I can use this for a community GAR.
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Been invited to be part of the discussion to share your opinion whether
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over his editing of Islamic articles that presented overwhelming
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1513:. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the
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I have been recently editing the anime/manga character article
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Knowledge (XXG):Today's featured article/requests/instructions
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Hello! This is a note to let the main editors of the article
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Thanks for letting me know about this. I feel that this and
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Maybe you are not watching but I responded to your inquire
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Knowledge (XXG):Today's featured article/December 18, 2012
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I made test of Naruto's description based on Lara Croft's
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stated that he used the site as a RS for Myst articles.
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Hello you're invited to vote and express your views on
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The article automatically failed its GA nomination per
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Knowledge (XXG):Today's featured list/December 2, 2013
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Today's featured article/requests
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List of LGBT characters in film, radio, and TV fiction
1383:'s best selling video game franchise, with more than
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Knowledge (XXG):Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Atari_HQ
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If you have any questions please do not hesitate to
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on December 18, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at
2021:on December 2, 2013. You can view the TFL blurb at
1175:Managed to get hold of this, just for the record.
335:should be deleted or not. this discussion is here
271:I just wanted to say thank you for your input at
1827:To receive future editions of this newsletter,
1482:A year ago, you were the 338th recipient of my
1379:commercially and critically successful; it is
1108:A Class Status for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
8:
1838:WikiProject Good Articles Recruitment Centre
830:Sure. I dunno which one I'd pick, though...
1249:know that the article will be appearing as
2069:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Today's featured list
1245:This is a note to let the main editors of
1455:, and for "pumping good content into the
2192:Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
1366:, printed media, and other merchandise.
925:Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars
360:Hi, since you were the main reviewer at
1717:
1555:The WikiProject Video Games Newsletter
1402:Guinness World Records Gamer's Edition
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
2079:so Knowledge (XXG) doesn't look bad.
1218:Just wanted to let you know my book,
7:
2080:
1831:to sign up on the distribution list.
1678:Changes to Featured and Good content
948:Free use and arcade cabinet pictures
1692:Feature: "A-class: Is It Worth It?"
1559:Volume 6, No. 1 — 1st Quarter, 2013
1241:Main page appearance: Final Fantasy
540:Done. Moved to the article. Thanks.
2017:know that it will be appearing as
1389:best-selling video game franchises
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593:Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri
473:Copyedit and some opinions needed
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1944:This message was sent out by --
454:he's also just stating what he
2201:. The franchise holds several
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2004:10:23, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
1902:Nominators, please read this:
1496:09:19, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
1476:09:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
1347:. It centers on a series of
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587:, an amazing editor who took
560:Hey. A new face around WPVG--
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1683:News items and announcements
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1368:The first game in the series
1313:), or start a discussion at
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1387:units sold, and one of the
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614:P.N.03 passed. High five.
362:Talk:Europa Barbarorum/GA1
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309:00:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
2198:Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
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1879:and add your name to the
1859:WikiProject Good articles
1507:List_of_Castlevania_media
1395:in 2006, and holds seven
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1146:06:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
1132:Not sure if you saw it -
1079:23:49, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
833:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs
645:Adventure Classing Gaming
524:. Do you think it's okay?
452:If you read the interview
289:14:54, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
262:03:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
2073:the suggested formatting
1356:role-playing video games
1251:today's featured article
1170:09:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
1056:02:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
933:maybe the prose. Best --
591:to FA and helped me get
1538:WikiProject Video Games
2204:Guinness World Records
2132:handheld game consoles
1850:
1756:VG Project Departments
1515:featured list criteria
1459:articles", you are an
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1397:Guinness World Records
647:review for Reception?
556:Another collaboration?
18:User talk:Guyinblack25
2150:home platforms. Most
1971:to merge them back.--
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1722:VG Project Main pages
1358:(RPGs), but includes
1323:
1088:I placed the article
42:of past discussions.
2009:Main Page appearance
871:Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
300:Super Mario Galaxy 2
2120:Beginning in 1989,
1600:, the project has:
1592:Project At a Glance
1540:Newsletter, Q1 2013
1271:) or his delegates
1090:Raiden (Metal Gear)
1084:Raiden (Metal Gear)
2160:Software Creations
2140:personal computers
2126:have appeared for
1969:current discussion
1881:list of recruiters
1851:
1713:Project Navigation
1697:Interview: Teancum
1461:awesome Wikipedian
1345:Hironobu Sakaguchi
413:Unsolicited Advice
294:Re:Super Mario RPG
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2146:were released on
2123:X-Men video games
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2144:video games
2041:Crisco 1492
1877:the process
1869:Recruiters:
1780:Peer review
1651:Good Topics
1385:100 million
1381:Square Enix
1343:created by
1301:Bencherlite
962:Kung Fu Man
649:David Fuchs
460:Herr Gruber
341:Bread Ninja
36:This is an
2027:Giants2008
1996:KahnJohn27
1946:EdwardsBot
1923:confusing.
1916:contact me
1829:click here
1804:Newsletter
1762:Assessment
1577:Next issue
1523:Nikkimaria
1484:PumpkinSky
1128:Atari Book
960:visible?--
954:this image
861:GamerPro64
849:GamerPro64
784:Atari 5200
667:Electroguv
653:Electroguv
631:Electroguv
487:Lara Croft
317:GamerPro64
305:GamerPro64
208:Archive 17
202:Archive 16
196:Archive 15
190:Archive 14
184:Archive 13
178:Archive 12
172:Archive 11
166:Archive 10
79:Archive 17
73:Archive 16
68:Archive 15
60:Archive 10
2077:Main Page
2067:), or at
1908:this page
1596:As of Q1
1486:Prize, --
1421:UcuchaBot
384:Jqbertlee
160:Archive 9
154:Archive 8
148:Archive 7
142:Archive 6
136:Archive 5
130:Archive 4
124:Archive 3
118:Archive 2
112:Archive 1
2087:Thanks!
2065:contribs
2055:SchroCat
2051:contribs
2037:contribs
1857:part of
1434:Precious
1311:contribs
1297:contribs
1287:Gimmetoo
1283:contribs
1273:Dabomb87
1269:contribs
991:evidence
734:Regards.
720:Regards.
405:MuZemike
277:Drilnoth
240:Response
98:Archives
2136:arcades
1855:are not
1771:Cleanup
1666:Content
1399:in the
1349:fantasy
1299:), and
1259:Raul654
1214:My Book
1177:bridies
1162:bridies
1095:Tintor2
1048:Indrian
1030:Indrian
917:another
914:Someone
769:Tintor2
753:Tintor2
736:Tintor2
722:Tintor2
702:Tintor2
542:Tintor2
526:Tintor2
506:Tintor2
491:Tintor2
445:Warshaw
432:Indrian
327:Invited
253:mmr1928
39:archive
2176:Marvel
2168:Capcom
2166:, and
2164:Konami
2138:, and
2103:en-2.5
1929:Dom497
1746:Portal
1372:genres
912:year.
893:JEB215
878:JEB215
456:thinks
2152:X-Men
2148:8-bit
2098:hotch
2053:) or
1893:NOTE:
1573:Index
1364:anime
1339:is a
1064:Crash
981:Hey,
16:<
2195:and
2185:and
2059:talk
2045:talk
2031:talk
2000:talk
1977:talk
1950:talk
1937:talk
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1643:589
1609:154
1598:2013
1536:The
1527:talk
1519:here
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