144:(capital letters without the word "bee" because the context allows to omit it) is used about ten times. As I wrote here earlier today, the term "Black German Bee" or "German Black Bee" can be found in other places on the internet as well. According to the rules of conduct in Knowledge (XXG), you should take back the entry where you reversed my revision because you can take back your own entry, but I shouldn't do a reverse of a reverse when it concerns one of my revisions, that just doesn't look right. Thank you and best wishes
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subspecies apis mellifera mellifera, otherwise known as the German or ”black” bee", I take from that it means, either "German Bee" or "Black Bee" not both combined, othrwise it wouldn't have said "or". Go ahead and add the book as the source that you mentioned, I don't have access to it, you don't need an online version of it, this isn't a big deal, so just go ahead and change it back to "German Black Bee" with the extra source added (
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a valid name, then it should remain as such. Had others challenged the publication directly and promptly, that might weigh things differently. As such, I owe you an apology - but, ultimately, this shows you how and why the
Commission functions as it does; my own personal interpretation of the rules does not outweigh the consensus of the full Commission. I will accordingly set about restoring the
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the person responsible for a change in genus placement (which IS required by the
Botanical Code). This feature of the Zoological Code runs afoul of Knowledge (XXG)'s general sourcing guidelines, but the bottom line is that there are actually a lot of things that the Code treats as mandatory but that never appear with published citations. I hope this won't be a source for contention here.
397:. Unfortunately there is not a wide ranging active community of people on Knowledge (XXG) thinking about country lists to respond to your ideas. If anyone objects, they will tell you so. You seem like a smart person figuring out how things are done around Knowledge (XXG), so don't hold back waiting for feedback. If it makes sense to you, you are probably right. Be bold!
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826:) does not include it at all - because it was not a valid publication of a new taxon name. That being said, this sort of thing has happened before, with a bumblebee name that was similarly "suggested" in 2021, also without a type specimen or description, and the name is also not available. It does, however, have a Knowledge (XXG) article -
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this article exactly at this spot where it is substantiated by YOUR source. Interesting in that context is that the name "German Black Bee" had been part of this article for more than ten years without any complains when you removed it on 19 November 2018. And on a literary note: The term "Black German Bee" is used many times in the novel
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seen a photo of their respective barbs, but if you cannot provide me with a better source then I will arrange for a photo of one of them to be taken by a beekeeper that I know that does
Instrumental Insemination. But you did say that this would be "easily verifiable" so it shouldn't take you long to Link it to me. Thanks.
77:. You mean the source (Characteristics of Races of Honeybees, ...) given there does not support the fact that this bee is also called "Black German Bee"? I was surprised to read that. I mean, you added this source yourself on 19 November 2018 - so, you should know it well enough. And there right on page 1 it says:
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to the other ICZN Commissioners over the weekend, and the responses I saw this morning were enlightening. The consensus, after some discussion was this: the publication only marginally complied with the requirements of the Code, and if the name has been treated by subsequent authorities as if it were
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unavailable. As such, there does not need to be a cited source, just as there is never a cited source for a change in the spelling of a name in order to comply with the Code's mandatory rules on gender agreement - one of the other automatic functions of the Code - or the lack of a requirement to cite
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were the same taxon, I cannot track this down. So, while I am positive that there has to be a source (I would not just make this up, I am a bit too meticulous about such things), I cannot now find that source. What would be an interim measure, if you feel it is necessary, is a semi-restoration of the
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I'm curious now why you think that I have a connection to the trust. I am a beekeeper but I'm not connected with the CB Dennis Trust in any way. My local beekeeping group is associated with the BBKA but that does not give me any BBKA voting rights. The BBKA website does identify some UK organisations
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Actually that would be a very good link, it gives a clear idea and excellent advertising for this... of course from a neutral point of view you know. Thanks
Beeloser. If you want to try and go ahead and incorporate it into the Section for the page, please do, or I'll get around to it in the next some
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Thank you very much
SchreiberBike that's very kind of you to say. I really don't want to upset anyone, so before I be Bold I just give a quick mention on the Talk page and then I jump right in. Sometimes I'm not 100% certain about what it is I'm going to amend or add, thinking, this is really obvious
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As you are clearly very knowledgeable on this subject (compared to me), can you please provide me a link so I can add a Source for the claim "(and virtually all other
Hymenoptera)", I am not aware of other Hymenoptera that have barbs; I have read that some have very small barbs when examined closely,
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In essence I think you're right about what you're saying about the name, I think I have heard the Amm referred to as the "German Black Bee" (I just can't remember where and so I couldn't easily add the source), but the Source does not say "German Black Bee" it says "These bees were most likely of the
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They reworded paragraphs to match their source and removed inappropriate editorializing of the "man, just thing about what could have been!" kind. That's perfectly normal editing on
Knowledge (XXG). They even encouraged you to provide "A more factual re-wording would be better and welcomed". Again,
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It's late now, but I will start going through the different actual and proposed subspecies over the next few days. I will likely be getting back to you and asking you to review or just double check that I have got things right (I'll not expect a quick response I know your busy, and don't worry I'll
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no this will absolutely NOT be a source of contention, in fact it's going to be the opposite, I don't agree with several of the subspecies designations, but I don't allow my personal opinions to influence my editing, you've given me a near perfect option, I can now go ahead and do what you suggest,
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in
Knowledge (XXG), and not be treated as a separate taxon until and unless someone cites Engel's synonymy and reverses it, and then THAT source can be cited. I am unaware of any such reversal, but if one can be found, then that would justify adding it to the list of subspecies. As for "pomonella",
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for more information on uploading your material to
Knowledge (XXG). For legal reasons, Knowledge (XXG) cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted.
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Also I have added a Source for the claim that the Queen Honey Bee does not have barbs, however I am not happy with this source, as the claim that Queens do not have barbs is explained by beekeepers in that the queens have been observed stinging multiple virgin queens in quick succession, I have not
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As I see a "secret email campaign" (not my words but the assessors) has been ongoing BUT that the outcome (and conversation) has been deleted I am re-posting it here in case Thor909 wishes to discuss the matter (please FIRST read the section "Things that make me wonder what you are smoking?" on my
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It was my understanding that when a
Citation request is made, the person writing the original sentence(s) would provide the Sources, as they would be notified of a change to the page. Failing that other Wiki Editors would jump in; I did not have time to search for Sources, so I decided to flag the
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Besides that source the name "Black German Bee" or "German Black Bee" is quite commonly used, not just among bee keepers. You can find that name in other places - besides your source - on the internet. Even a facebook page about the German Black Bee exists. That's why it fitted perfectly well into
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Hi Headbomb, you have obviously taken me up the wrong way, I have not edited anything in a year because this guy follows me around deleting my entries, that's why I am looking for help, I'm not secretly trying an email campaign, I have used his talk page and just ended up in a huge row where he
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The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please
819:", and is permanently unavailable. It cannot be treated as a valid taxon name, even if the biological entity it was intended to refer to is a legitimately unique lineage. In other words, you really should not have an article in Knowledge (XXG) for "Apis mellifera pomonella", because there is
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the C B Dennis Trust and Bee Diseases Insurance Ltd", I thought this meant that you were a member and had provided "technical assistance" to "the C B Dennis Trust and Bee Diseases Insurance Ltd", I misunderstood this to mean that you were somehow representing them. Apologies for my mistake.
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Also after looking at the sources and sentence structure for your sentence "and ranges to the Tien Shan Mountains in Central Asia" I realize there is no source cited (the source beside the word "pomonella" is to support the claim its a new subspecies, not relating to its range).
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Thank you my friend for the help in tidying up the paragraph, it reads much better now, and I'll take on board using quote marks " " when needed instead of Copy and Paste, but best to summarize in my own words; wrap across the knuckles deserved, needed and appreciated :-)
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species in Knowledge (XXG) should comply with the most recent revision of the genus (Engel, 1999) and also comply with the ICZN Code. These are both things that are in keeping with Knowledge (XXG)'s policies. For example, Engel formally synonymized "carpathica" under
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sentence by a Citation request, and come back to it later when I had time (like now). The length of time you have spent reading this Posting is likely longer than it would have taken you to add the respective Sources for these easily verifiable claims.
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Can you explain why you made these edits without a source and claims that are not supported but contradicted by the cited sources? I'm guessing I've missed something, maybe you are aware of more recent DNA analysis but you have given the wrong sources?
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Hi Headbomb, yes, I understand that, I live in Rush,Wy did Biblio suddenly have an interest in a town nowhere near him one hour after I put in some information. Would you not think that strange. Hence I have not put anything in for over a year
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a taxon by this name. The name was SUGGESTED by Sheppard & Meixner, but they never designated a type specimen, or gave a formal description, so their "name" has no standing in taxonomy or nomenclature; it is what is referred to as a
1112:, or anything else on Knowledge (XXG) in well over a year. I've also looked at the history of Beekeeping in Ireland and can't find anything that supports your accusations about being constantly reverted, or any other accusations about
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Hi Dyanega, (I've just gone ahead and Pasted this into my Talk page which I had Posted onto your Talk page after you deleted a Citation request for Sources, looking forward to your linked Sources, thanks in advance friend).
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which was founded after her death. Then there is Brian Dennis. He was associated with the BBKA for a long time and was one of the founders of the Bee Disease Insurance company in 1936. He bequeathed a legacy to create the
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been formally named nor confirmed as a valid taxon since its original proposal. That is consistent with all of the facts, and not contradicted by any sources I am aware of. I will further note that the ICZN rules apply
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Oh, your right, I hadn't noticed that IBRA wasn't included, and you make good points about the CB Dennis Trust and the Eva Crane Trust also being added to the Section "Associations and organizations", but be careful, I
264:"The different species of honey bees are distinguished from all other bee species (and virtually all other Hymenoptera) by the possession of small barbs on the sting, but these barbs are found only in the worker bees."
90:. --- I certainly don't take part in any edit war here. That's why, please reverse your entry from 15 April 2019 and put back the name "Black German Bee" where it rightly belongs. --- Thank you for your co-operation.
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33:, but you certainly deserve one! Thanks for learning from your previous warnings and really working to improve your edits. You are doing a lot of good work for the Bees and bee related topics of Knowledge (XXG)!
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Again, good points, thanks for the input... the next thing I'm thinking about (when I get time) is to flesh out the descriptions in the "Associations and organizations" Section, to maybe a little paragraph for
830:- that explains that it is not an actual taxon name. The difference between these two otherwise similar cases is that I was informed at some point a few years ago that "pomonella" was the same taxon as
1367:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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838:. The bumblebee has not been suggested as a synonym. The problem is that after several hours digging through my archives, to find who and when it was communicated to me that "pomonella" and
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I apologise if I have taken up your time but i just cant get anywhere with editing pages without it being removed and need advice or help. I do ppreciate your reply, ebst regards Thor909
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page, the reason you gave was "these sentences are absolutely correct, accurate, and easily verifiable" however if you read my Edit Summary you will see that I am not referring to sentence
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from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at
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In general, if you have an issue with people on Knowledge (XXG), use the talk page to discuss it. Either of articles, or of users. Secret email campaigns will not get you anywhere.
504:, just go ahead and Post what you think should be added for the CB Dennis Trust in this Section of this Talk Page and I'll then Post it myself on the Article Page, I think that's ok?
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someone to formally publish a statement in order for an act or decision or rule to take effect. The Code does not, for example, require that someone has to publish that a name is a
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but they do not cause the same effect as Honey bees barbs (attaching to skin). I would be very interested in reading about other insects that possess these barbs? Thanks.
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article to reflect its status as an available name. The "Bombus incognitus" example is NOT the same, and there is consensus that the name was not made available. As for
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663:, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Knowledge (XXG) takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy
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to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at
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as a subspecies in Table 1. and then only in a paragraph 5 of section 3, discussing its lineage, with neither referencing each other, nor raising doubt over
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Very good, this page is really starting to grow! It brings the attention of these organizations to beekeepers who otherwise may not have been aware of them.
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Hi, sorry, I may have misunderstood your sentences on your User Page were you say "I am a member of ..(BBKA) and have provided technical assistance to them.
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This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the
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Thank you friend, I have tried my best to try and be unbiased and not make or take anything personally! Your Star means a lot to me, thanks again :-)
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https://books.google.is/books?id=qGeX1UazHdsC&printsec=frontcover&hl=is&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Yes, you're right, we should be using British English for a wiki page based in the UK - I often forget this and revert to American English (
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Okay, I've taken a stab at it. Also under Associations and organisations (BTW should we be using British English?) should/could we include
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Hi Diannaa, Thank you for your help with this, but obviously not, it was my first time, I'll try again. Thanks again for keeping me right.
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Hello Is123Biblio, I saw your talk page notes at the lists of reptiles of Ireland and Great Britain and wanted to encourage you to
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Oh, sorry didn't realise that, I'll revert for you, can you go ahead and add the Source, thanks. Hope I didn't cause any offence.
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Hi. Please don't just "copy and paste" text verbatim from other works and include it in Knowledge (XXG) articles. As you did
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Editors will come along and change this for us every now and then, I've given up trying to change it back when it happens).
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in Central Asia. where it was believed to represent a new subspecies ("pomonella"), a claim which has not been supported."
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The C.B. Dennis British Beekeepers' Research Trust supports bee research that benefits bees and beekeeping in Britain
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These bees were most likely of the subspecies apis mellifera mellifera, otherwise known as the German or “black” bee.
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go ahead and continue to edit freely, I'll support and help were I can. Again my apologies for my misunderstanding.
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this name was not published in compliance with the ICZN, and accordingly there is not and - technically speaking -
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but only one singular sentence - the one preceding the Source request; I'll paste it below for ease of reference:
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896:, thank you so much for taking the time and effort in explaining that in great detail, I really do appreciate it.
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is a new subspecies) which has not been supported", the "A revision of subspecies structure of western honey bee
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a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into
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Hi. I'm a Commissioner of the ICZN, and a recognized bee taxonomist and researcher. The classification of
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I'll go ahead and make the other edits. I think that we can add Eva Crane to the list of beekeepers too.
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Hello Is123Biblio, trying to find my feet here. Is this link any help for the Modern Beekeeping section:
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Rustem A. Ilyasov, Myeong-lyeol Lee, Jun-ichi Takahashi, Hyung Wook Kwon, Alexey G. Nikolenko (2020).
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I added some citations to the Modern Beekeeping section as there was a warning message about that.
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This is my entry for Rush he came straight into it an hour later and edited, I live in this town,
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Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.
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On 15 April 2019 you undid my revision from 1 March about the name "Black German Bee" for
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You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.
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no such taxon. You will note, for example, that the global catalogue of all bee names (
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NB: For context I am adding my posting to Dyanega's Talk page for my ease of reference:
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to names in the published literature; there are only certain nomenclatural acts that
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Okay I've added CB Dennis Trust. Please let me know if you need any other citations.
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Hi there, thanks for the encouragement, unfortunately there isn't much info. on the
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Apologies; didn't realise the (unused) source details the panel. Will incorporate.
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for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a
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you have Reverted my Edit, a Citation request, made at 16:38, March 15, 2022, on
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136:) where only a small section of the book is shown as a sample. There the term
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has been synonymized after 1999, so please for now leave things as they are.
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You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.
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412:... maybe I'm missing something! I'll take encouragement from what you say.
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But from re-reviewing the source you have cited for the phrase "a claim (
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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Hi wiki friend, hope I haven't caused offence by being pedantic :-)
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has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added
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if you have an issue with anything in specific, that's what
178:(pp. 77, 152). New York: Doubleday, Page & Company ---
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This particular source is --- Stratton-Porter, G. (1925).
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I sent a message with some of the details of the case of
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https://www.bbka.org.uk/past-spring-convention-programmes
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843:"pomonella" article, as long as it is modeled after the
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1190:: altered sentence to be more in keeping with source.
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Caucasian honey bee edit ref: Apis mellifera pomonella
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to Knowledge (XXG). It appears that you tried to give
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1484:, a new honey bee subspecies from Central Asia"
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980:Hello, Is123Biblio. Thank you for your work on
976:I have sent you a note about a page you started
672:Knowledge (XXG):Copying text from other sources
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1560:: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
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751:as a subspecies in Table 1., and lists the
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469:which Eva Crane founded in 1949. Also the
356:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for history merge
294:I have undone your cut-and-paste page move
1429:Please help translate to other languages.
1478:Walter Sheppard, Marina Meixner (2003).
900:try and get it right first time round).
205:). If unclear, please read the relevant
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29:Alas Knowledge (XXG) doesn't have a Bee
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801:in 1999 (and likewise "rodopica" under
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851:a valid taxon name and as of 2023 has
584:Aha! I could have worded that better.
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1529:Saudi Journal of Biological Sciences
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541:but CB Dennis is not on their list.
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1014:tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
529:I was thinking along the lines of
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428:Beekeeping in the United Kingdom
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336:four days old and has ten edits
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759:taxon status as a subspecies:
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1411:00:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
213:policies/guidelines. Thanks.
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25:Apis mellifera supports you!
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344:hidden in a dropdown menu
1482:Apis mellifera pomonella
1443:voting page on Meta-wiki
1400:to your user talk page.
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128:Right now, I looked up
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303:Hi, and thank you for
176:The Keeper of the Bees
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1503:10.1051/apido:2003037
1361:Arbitration Committee
1344:Hello! Voting in the
1110:Beekeeping in Ireland
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729:page the below info.
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734:Tien Shan Mountains
727:Caucasian honey bee
1377:arbitration policy
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1535:(12): 3615–3621.
1435:Dear Wikimedian,
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1272:Talk:Rush, Dublin
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894:Bombus incognitus
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492:That's very good.
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629:January 2023
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313:Slieve Beagh
309:Sliabh Beagh
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1389:voting page
1243:Visual edit
1177:Is123Biblio
1153:insults me.
1116:Is123Biblio
1020:✠ SunDawn ✠
866:nomen nudum
817:nomen nudum
657:information
644:copyrighted
323:, which is
37:Captain Eek
1546:16 January
1508:13 January
1491:Apidologie
1373:topic bans
954:A. m. meda
929:A. m. meda
888:Hi friend,
803:macedonica
648:permission
340:"Move" tab
215:Guliolopez
207:WP:COPYVIO
1369:site bans
1274:is for.
1026:(contact)
925:pomonella
920:pomonella
892:with the
821:literally
689:Fixed it
478:in 1990.
255:Honey bee
180:Stillbusy
146:Stillbusy
92:Stillbusy
1277:Headbomb
1224:contribs
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1126:Headbomb
840:caucasia
836:caucasia
832:caucasia
665:will be
589:Beeloser
549:Beeloser
480:Beeloser
437:Beeloser
348:redirect
31:barnstar
1396:NoACEMM
1253:Thor909
1217:Thor909
1039:SunDawn
937:Dyanega
875:Dyanega
862:require
807:carnica
799:carnica
676:Diannaa
661:content
513:helpful
395:be bold
360:Diannaa
211:WP:CLOP
1232:+1,301
670:. See
568:Please
502:WP:COI
193:Copvio
1487:(PDF)
1195:thank
1104:Email
1091:Bibby
1071:Ceoil
1049:Bibby
958:Bibby
902:Bibby
772:Bibby
691:Bibby
603:Bibby
572:Bibby
517:Bibby
508:each.
498:think
453:Bibby
414:Bibby
375:Bibby
329:moved
281:Bibby
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115:Bibby
49:Bibby
1562:link
1548:2023
1510:2023
1407:talk
1359:The
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1236:undo
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1209:prev
1192:undo
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1095:talk
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