971:, www.judaengelmayer.com - nothing hidden. I have not caused damage, but agree to not cause any damage. I understand that you blocked me because I have edited certain pages that someone thinks are connected to me, or from websites. I do not do that, an I will continue not to do that. I believe I have made useful contributions, such as finding references for linda park of Enterprise fame. I urge you to reconsider, and please look at my history and see that my edits are within your wiki rules and in keeping with the good community Thank you I'd like to have a discussion on this. When I was accused in the past it was being part of a firm where a single party was accused of trying to edit a page a certain way and engaged in edit wars and challenges. It wasn't me then. Here I don't even see edit wars and battles and any harm i have caused. There are no controversies, and with minor and appropriate exception, I have not edited pages of clients. Where I did, I admit it and made correct edits. This is a surprise. − The page says that a user should not mislead, deceive, vandalize or disrupt; to create the illusion of greater support for a position; to stir up controversy; or to circumvent a block, ban, or sanction. I have not done any of this above, and I just went through some of the users you attribute allege are me too, and none of them seem to be in edit wars, trying to stir controversy, removing blocks or bans, not entering debates to create support and especially not to vandalize. All edits that I have been reading seem to be in keeping with updating Knowledge (XXG) with real information and useful data, properly referenced. This must be reviewed.
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issues, because I have been an editor for 11 years and have been involved in many edit controversies, but you cannot point to an edit that I have made that is polluting or trashing, or whatever. Even, as I said, the other IDs referred to, have not from what I see, been engaged in polluting with trash. I appreciate that you don't think I would do this, but even with that caveat, what have I done? I am not going to speak for anyone else, but the folks at Wiki ought to value the edits made at face value. They are mostly solid. To your point, and your experience interacting with me, how many WIkipedians actually admit who they are? I am among the few who has been open and never hid it. Now I am punished. What it does is force me to go underground. I enjoy
Knowledge (XXG) and will continue, but obviously may now have to now sign up under a pseudonym and another email address. That is not what the people here want to expect. Everyone has always been able to watch me. That may not be possible anymore. Why is that better? I do appreciate your support though, and thank you
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proper disclosure. Where I was challenged and disagreed with, I didn't persist, but never made a secret of it. Then you assert - "I see you and all the socks editing it directly and no COI disclosures," but I can say with certainty I do not work for him and have no COI here at all. If the only answer here that is acceptable is a different opinion, it's unfortunate. Fact is that I have met him twice in my life, and I am 48, due to the nature of my work. I paid more attention to him recently because when I left my old firm I was looking at beginning a new publication in NJ and recognized how hard it was. Offline I would share with you the name of the publication which is active in another region, and what my involvement was, but needless to say, it is hard work and I became genuinely impressed with how this figure tapped into a market that is so challenged today and how it operates. That is my involvement.
1086:, when you say "This makes the "other people at my firm" reasoning hard to understand" what are you referring to? I don't think I said anything like that. I did leave my old firm and I have begun my own company, and not a single entity, person, company whatever, that I edit is a client, pays me or whatever. As a PR person, I know the rules here too. Anytime i ever made changes for a client I disclosed it, and did it to change a fact or issue using real sources and in keeping with Wiki's standards; never to "dump pollution", but to improve and make better what is already there.
1701:, a man a read about, then reached out to for speak about his ordeal - for nothing other than subject matter interest. The only difference here is that the most recent subject has a media empire and is/was not an underdog as the other two are, so to speak. For some, that makes it a problem because of perception, but it is no different. I have no conflict other than interest, and having interest in a subject is what makes any Knowledge (XXG) editor worthwhile - interest enough to study, find valid sources, useful photos and more information. If you look at the
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magazine and learned the hard way how challenging it is. I work in a big branded shared office space building and I know a few people who edit and this person has been discussed. Knowledge (XXG) relies on people who have interests and knowledge, willing to research and share. My history here is filled with it, from early New York cooperatives and unions, Jewish and
Israeli interest, my work on Ken Kraus, having learned about him from a book my father wrote, and Star Trek related articles. I have interests and i write about them.
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1108:. I do hear you, when you describe yourself, and the edits from this account match what you say. Based on how you represent yourself and my experience of you interacting you, i was dismayed to see this case - you don't ~seem~ to me to be the kind of person who would do this. I had all that in mind, when i wrote what I wrote. This
415:? I'm having difficulty locating the required disclosure of your recent paid edits. I can also see other socks editing for clients of your firm, including ones making edits on your behalf. Would you be interested in disclosing any of those? It might be a good idea to sit down with your peers and discuss an ethical approach here.
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I would like to regain my editing ability and appeal to you for this. I ask what you want to know? I have no COI, have no connection and no relationship to the person or company. What I can't understand is why because of an interest, no matter how fervent, does that mean a COI? it doesn't, but for
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avoid any topics that are of controversial nature, I will keep to myself and not engage in edit challenges, and I will not use multiple accounts. I would like objectivity here, some review of my eleven years as an editor, and some real valuation of my contributions to this terrific forum. Thank you.
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I never said they were in my firm, I am small with a few people working with me I do work in a shared space though, a We-work in the city. Also, when you say "they are not me: I don't do that" is what every sockmaster says..." but if it is true, then we are at an impasse. I hear this and know the
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Your last comment is more on point. The people using the checkuser tools found technical similarities in where these edits came from. The key thing in addition to that is behavior. The edits in the current case are the (depressingly) very typical promotional undisclosed paid editing by PR people,
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You have been blocked for sock puppetry and this appeal, as with many of your comments above, fails to properly address this. Therefore I am declining your appeal. Blocked users have access to their talk pages solely for appealing their block and/or dealing with matters that are directly related to
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Please be aware that when I said "you and the socks" I was not asserting that they are all one person. You. The socks (which definitely appear related to one another - the only question here is if they are related to you). And it is a fact that there is no COI disclosure. These were all facts,
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I just can't understand how you keep reading things I don't say. None of my staff is on
Knowledge (XXG) and none edit or participate. None of the people you're referring to work with me or for me. Do you know what WeWork facility is? It's independent people. My company has nothing to do with
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I have not made any recent changes for any clients, and when I edited RT's page I used the talk pages always and showed/proved my edits were merited. In the past, I have also notified on the talk pages If I touched it. COI's are not wise, but there has always been room for appropriate edits with
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Pardon me for kind of shifting topics here, but the following is related. Part of PAID and COI is that editors who are paid or who have a COI need to a) disclose where they have a COI and b) not edit directly. You have been directly editing the article about
Torrossian, which you should not have
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for what it is worth... i have not reviewed the recent SPI case but i looked at Judae1's edits in the past. he appears to me very distinct from the sockmaster
Babasalichai. Very very different edits and interests; they do cross at the Ronn Torossian article but Judae1 has refrained from directly
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I was editing, there is wrongful information on it that I had tried to change, and it was reversed by an editor with little regard to
Knowledge (XXG) fact checking. However, I do not want to debate it and I want to edit general pieces again. I will emphatically say that I will do my very best to
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The contribs by the socks are both before and after the
September 2016 date that you name on your userpage as when you left the old firm ( I would guess that you are with a different PR firm now...). This makes the "other people at my firm" reasoning hard to understand. And even if it is other
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Thank you for now having that conversation after you blocked and ignored me. if you read anywhere, I'm not sure you will ever once see me say "I don't know" them. I think I just inferred that I'm not them/him/her whoever. And I am not. I am also not sure editing an article that someone in my
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Please take a look at my edit history and see what I have contributed. This is patently unfair and I am being held responsible for what others have done. My edit history is solid, I have always disclosed my identify, and my edits have been within
Knowledge (XXG) boundaries. I use talk pages for
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However, I can be clear because of this issue that I want resolved. I have a curious interest in how this man/subject has managed to run a publishing empire at a time when publishing print is dying. For selfish interest I have been studying him as I was/am looking at partneing in an unrelated
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I know that there is a serious claim against me regarding the use of multiple accounts, and I know some of the users involved and do not know others. However, I do know that the charge against me was levied due to editing an article that I have no COI with at all; no money, no agreements, no
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The anger of the
Knowledge (XXG) community at the unscrupulous and despicable conduct of the Ronn Torossian sockpuppet - an anger that I share - is perfectly understandable, and the corporate ban is justified. In the case of this user, however, I think it is reasonable to make an exception.
1373:). We don't care if all those accounts belong to you, or they belong to different people who work with you and edit in the same way you do. From Knowledge (XXG)'s point of view, it's the same. You are trying do defend yourself, but basically you are admitting you engaged in meatpupptry.
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their block. Your discursive conversations have become unproductive and wander off into matters that are not pertinent to your block and, consequently, are unhelpful to the appeal process. I am therefore revoking your talk page access. If you wish to appeal again then you now must use
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possible that five people who do not know each other are editing the same page from the same location by coincidence. You have to explain us what's going on. Saying "I don't know them" will not help you because it's not possible. In your response, please explain us what's going on.
997:. You know this person and were working with them two years ago before your change of office. The checkuser confirmed both of your accounts in the same place much, much more recently. You haven't made an adequate accounting of relationships to these other editors. Declined.
1949:*(diff) 2016-12-28T20:22:07 . . Judae1 (talk | contribs | block) (27,645 bytes) (→Contemporary history (2012–present): fixed ref break) *(diff) 2016-12-28T20:18:51 . . Judae1 (talk | contribs | block) (27,643 bytes) (Added and moved MMOG to better place)
546:, and believe the block on this account is unjustified. While Juda and I have had our issues early on, my understand is that his edits are either on subjects where there is no 5W interest or housekeeping, non-controversial edits where there is interest.
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sock puppetry episode. Judae1 was at that time a senior executive in 5WPR, Torossian's firm. Torossian engaged in blatant and malicious sockpuppetry, much of which was the editing of articles about 5WPR's clients. Judae1 was implicated but later
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Considering the absence of a clear motive for violating
Knowledge (XXG)'s rules on multiple accounts, and Judae1's own admirable editing history, it seems to me that this decision is overly harsh. Perhaps a severe warning would be more in
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conflict of interest here, something which would support the charge of malicious sockpuppetry. And, while Judae1's contention that the multiple users emerging from the same IP address are not him is a bit hard to believe, it is still
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I'm not sure what language you speak, but you continue to out words in my mouth. I never said these work for for or with me. I know some and they don't work with me or for me. I will keep fighting this because you are wrong.
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Since then, Judae1 has been a positive editor of Knowledge (XXG), adding a lot of stuff in a wide range of topic areas. He left 5WPR two years ago to found his own PR firm, and, as far as I know, is no longer associated with
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vicinity is editing is illegal or even voting to keep an article almost a year and a half ago is. I don't think Knowledge (XXG) rules say that two people in the same zip code, IP address or region cannot participate.
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Again, it has been a good while since I was involved in this issue, and the blocking administrators may know much more than I. But I felt it was appropriate to add my two cents to the discussion, albeit belatedly.
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dumping pollution into Knowledge (XXG). This is a different matter from the edits that were apparently made by accounts by or representing Torrosian that were overly-fiercely trying to manage his reputation here.
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Do you have any way to make sense out of the editing of the associated accounts? The assertion "they are not me: I don't do that" is what every sockmaster says, and isn't helping you or the editing community.
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I am declining your unblock request because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that
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The subjects of the articles that were edited by Judae1 and the apparent sockpuppets are not, as far as I can tell, clients of either 5WPR or Herald PR, Judae1's new firm. So there does not appear to be a
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At the time I reviewed and closed the SPI case, I was unaware of any wider discussion involving this company or this user. Given the much weaker technical and behavioral evidence connecting
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that was an undisclosed paid editor and this was less than a year ago. They didn't come clean in previous sock blocks / unblock requests but insisted they were uninvolved. Not believable.
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is examined these days with a laser-like focus, so I encourage you to remain above-board in regards to any paid editing, or any editing of articles related to yourself or your company. —
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is an example of due process and how it should be done. The way mine was handled is wrong. I am disappointed in this system, where no one has to prove an COI, just make claims to it.
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I am urging no such thing. I'm seeking to understand the situation and offer Mr. Engelmayer an opportunity to disclose information that may be helpful in assessing the situation.
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and his PR company. The user has never made a secret of his affiliation, and has always been scrupulous about abiding by Knowledge (XXG)'s guidelines for conflicts of interest.
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You have whatever answer you want to believe, and nothing I say mattera. So I ask you how do I resolve this to your satisfaction? I would like to work this out. Thank you
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I will say a last thing. If you read through the block notice carefully, it has a link to the sockpuppet investigation, and if you read that, there is a link there to
1304:) that are editing from the same location as you do. You say you don't know them. But, those accounts were editing the same pages as you did, making similar edits to
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reasons unknown, it is decided I have one. I'm not looking to fight, I just want to know what I need to do to get back to editing that would satisfy you? Thank you
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that there needs to be more transparency. The firm needs to disclose when an employee or a paid editor is making edits to a client article (or enemy article, like
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I do not find your answers plausible. In addition to the evidence already pointed out to you, you attempted to get an article for one of the socks past review
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template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.
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template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.
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template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.
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You cannot hold Judae1 responsible for what other people at 5W do. I actually asked him to see what he could do and he said he has limited influence - see
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Knowledge (XXG); and all edits made under this account may be reverted. If this account is not a sock puppet, and you would like to be unblocked, you may
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Thank you for listening. Apparently the admins here are not inclined to respond to me or discuss, and I sent them private emails and my phone number too.
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1265:. I have now given you that link - please read it and then review the actual investigation and findings before you respond further. Please.
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I have been an editor for ten years and I do know what is permitted and what is not. This account is not a SockPuppet, it is that if
557:). Some of us are aware that Mr. Torossian is actively soliciting paid editors on Elance - that too needs to be disclosed each time.
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I am not have been editing on Wiki for a long time now. Please let me know why? I work in a shared office with hundreds of people
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editing that article as far as I know due to his well-declared COI. I reckon blocking him as part of the sockfarm was a mistake.
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involvements, no contact. I have an interest in the article's subject and I researched and studied it. It was no different than
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controversial items and have made basic changes, dates and references, to most issues in question. Additionally, I am hardly a
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Anyway, i am just upsetting you and i am not the decision maker. I hope that things work out. sorry again for upsetting you.
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hard, as the CU results are what they are and the associated accounts are obvious throw-away accounts for paid editors.
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Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the
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And how is possible that those "independent people" are editing the same article as you, and with similar edits?
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been revoked. If you are able to confirm that you are the user who created this account, please read the
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in urging that this block be repealed. It was imposed within the framework of a ban on all employees of
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You are blocked for sockpuppetry, and that is all we should be talking about here. In short: our
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but thanks for responding to me and saying how you have operated here with regard to clients.
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I have not edited pages of clients. Where I did, I admit it and made correct edits.
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I see you and all the socks editing it directly and no COI disclosures from anybody.
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the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Knowledge (XXG),
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I have received your email - and the only advice left to give you would be to
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It's not illegal, but it is certainly against Knowledge (XXG)'s policy (see:
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and to describe, precisely, your relationship with each of the named users.
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That's some disappointing behavior by your peers. Are you familiar with our
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Where have you disclosed the clients, on behalf of whom you have edited?
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regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is
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was submitted on Jun 15, 2018 04:48:43. This review is now closed.
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was submitted on Feb 13, 2018 22:50:31. This review is now closed.
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was submitted on Jan 09, 2018 15:23:00. This review is now closed.
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was submitted on Dec 25, 2017 17:29:07. This review is now closed.
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was submitted on Dec 18, 2017 15:25:47. This review is now closed.
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was submitted on Dec 14, 2017 22:19:52. This review is now closed.
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was submitted on Aug 30, 2017 16:17:26. This review is now closed.
1106:...I was being part of a firm where a single party was accused of...
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people at the firm(s), you are caught up in that. Firmly.
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so there is no need for "asserted" kind of discourse here.
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to the more certain/likely sockpuppets, I can accept that
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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please
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No that is entirely different. This is not helping you.
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anyone else other the collegial talk in the vestibule.
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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please
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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please
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Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
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Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/Judae1/Archive
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Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
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Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
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is editing separately in a manner that does not violate
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This user has said that they are not a sock but these
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It has been several years since I was involved in the
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been doing. And if I look at the editing history of
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Knowledge (XXG):Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an
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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an
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will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an
390:. That being said, please be aware that any kind of
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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an
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Ban on Ronn Torossian to be extended to his company?
1481:Thank you for this. I hope my pleas are heard.
1102:I work in a shared office with hundreds of people
643:Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/Judae1
596:Thank you all. I am grateful for your support.
820:the block is no longer necessary because you
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2621:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
2488:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
2377:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
2266:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
2094:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
1983:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
1792:is asking that his block be reviewed on the
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1061:I am not an admin, but here is my 2 cents.
823:understand what you have been blocked for,
1896:edits show this editor working with this
1168:Above you wrote the somewhat confusing
829:will make useful contributions instead.
1894:Special:Undelete/User:Draykyle/sandbox
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1157:The edits by the socks are pollution.
7:
1300:tool found several accounts (listed
227:below. However, you should read the
2212:because it is suspected that it is
1263:"defending yourself against claims"
102:There is currently a discussion at
645:. Note that multiple accounts are
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2594:contact the arbitration committee
2228:), then submit a request to the
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1509:) 01:01, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
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2623:Unblock Ticket Request System
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1985:Unblock Ticket Request System
1967:02:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
1794:Unblock Ticket Request System
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1940:00:17, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
1914:02:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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1617:, who declined the request.
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1538:07:59, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
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1387:23:05, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
1056:20:00, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
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892:, who declined the request.
712:, who declined the request.
260:, who accepted the request.
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1595:21:59, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
1580:21:57, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
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1320:article. It is absolutely
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1257:21:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
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661:may be reverted or deleted
641:per evidence presented at
209:may be reverted or deleted
2716:04:48, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
2605:23:06, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
2222:guide to appealing blocks
1757:guide to appealing blocks
1021:guide to appealing blocks
859:guide to appealing blocks
837:guide to appealing blocks
669:guide to appealing blocks
549:However, I do agree with
343:) 4:26 am, Today (UTC−7)
229:guide to appealing blocks
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1568:User_talk:Sundartripathi
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677:|Your reason here ~~~~}}
614:Blocked for sockpuppetry
606:18:00, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
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589:17:22, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
567:17:08, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
528:13:00, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
502:12:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
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444:12:07, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
429:12:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
404:17:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
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241:05:57, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
225:|Your reason here ~~~~}}
120:23:18, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
671:, then adding the text
125:Blocked as a sockpuppet
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667:by first reading the
649:, but using them for
555:Yoshiyahu Yosef Pinto
518:Sorry, my mistake. --
452:I join my colleagues
300:change block settings
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197:, but using them for
2730:Compromised accounts
392:conflict of interest
219:by adding the text
213:not allowed to edit
2695:UTRS appeal #21825
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1708:Juda S. Engelmayer
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2214:compromised
1934:—Preceding
1562:Due Process
1528:Vanjagenije
1440:prima facie
1418:exonerated.
1377:Vanjagenije
1329:Vanjagenije
1104:as well as
683:Vanjagenije
150:sock puppet
30:new message
2646:autoblocks
2588:Your email
2513:autoblocks
2402:autoblocks
2291:autoblocks
2119:autoblocks
2008:autoblocks
1922:Draykyle's
1817:autoblocks
1653:filter log
1318:Jason Binn
1306:Jason Binn
1163:Jason Binn
928:filter log
748:filter log
333:sockpuppet
291:filter log
177:page moves
2679:checkuser
2634:block log
2546:checkuser
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1755:read the
1672:checkuser
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1443:possible.
1019:read the
947:checkuser
906:block log
857:read the
767:checkuser
726:block log
579:. right?
310:checkuser
269:block log
189:block log
63:Archive 1
2724:Category
2650:contribs
2517:contribs
2406:contribs
2295:contribs
2123:contribs
2012:contribs
1821:contribs
1643:contribs
1314:ChasTayn
918:contribs
738:contribs
655:reasons
577:his boss
396:Darkwind
281:contribs
233:Darkwind
231:first. —
203:reasons
165:contribs
51:Archives
2708:UTRSBot
2673:unblock
2575:UTRSBot
2540:unblock
2464:UTRSBot
2429:unblock
2353:UTRSBot
2318:unblock
2208:blocked
2181:UTRSBot
2146:unblock
2070:UTRSBot
2035:unblock
1936:undated
1879:UTRSBot
1844:unblock
1766:unblock
1731:WP:UTRS
1666:unblock
1465:Ravpapa
1030:unblock
941:unblock
868:unblock
761:unblock
679:below.
675:unblock
647:allowed
632:blocked
540:Ravpapa
520:Ravpapa
476:Ravpapa
388:WP:SOCK
304:unblock
223:unblock
195:allowed
143:blocked
2629:Judae1
2496:Judae1
2385:Judae1
2274:Judae1
2244:(talk)
2102:Judae1
1991:Judae1
1910:(talk)
1800:Judae1
1626:Judae1
1587:Jytdog
1533:(talk)
1453:order.
1382:(talk)
1334:(talk)
1292:Judae1
1267:Jytdog
1231:Jytdog
1193:Jytdog
1174:Jytdog
1140:Jytdog
1118:Jytdog
1084:Jytdog
1071:Jytdog
1007:(talk)
901:Judae1
721:Judae1
688:(talk)
657:is not
581:Jytdog
559:Mosmof
544:Jytdog
497:(talk)
458:Jytdog
436:Jytdog
424:(talk)
374:Judae1
358:Judae1
264:Judae1
205:is not
2617:This
2484:This
2373:This
2262:This
2090:This
1979:This
1788:This
1759:first
1566:This
1543:Dear
1496:Dear
1428:5WPR.
1023:first
861:first
841:Yamla
2712:talk
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456:and
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159:talk
116:talk
112:Huon
17:logs
2683:log
2599:SQL
2550:log
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1932:)
1854:log
1676:log
1623:).
1322:not
1310:You
951:log
898:).
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314:log
152:of
2726::
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