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author, who has a fairly well fleshed out article himself. most notable novels will have an article about the author as the primary article, and then sub articles about the authors novels. in essence, notability here is established by the willingness of a publishing company to put hard cash on the line, in hopes of selling product. its worked 5 times for them, thus this book is being read by probably 10-20 thousand readers, more if in libraries. its really hard to find reviews for books online, so this is NOT the main criteria in this case. in this case, the book itself is the main source for establishing notability: it exists, it was published in large quantities, most likely had an ad campaign in magazines like Locus. the article needs improvement, and fewer blue links in the plot synopsis, but is unquestionably notable. the authors first novel may not have qualified him for an article, but by this time its easily established.
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I to was trying to refrain
Mercury, but my passion for the book got the better of me. I actually read an article that outlined a process some could take to try and get a non-notable article through on Knowledge (XXG), that to me seemed a bit more like a cheaters way to get an article kept on WP. It made sense, in a sketchy sort of way, because it suggested having friends of yours contribute something after months of editing other articles. According to WP's guidelines, if the article is presented by an unbiased source with a good history of acceptable edits under their belt, the article may be kept. But, that's not how I work and it doesn't appear how you work either, Mercury. We both would rather have the material we put into WP stand alone on the merits of its notability rather than cheating with buddies just to pass it through, even if you have to post it yourself.
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read since 1981. i worked in the book business for a decade, and saw books like "mutant message down under" go from being self published to the bestseller lists as a harpercollins title. there are an infinite variety of routes by which your book may become notable. this WP project is utterly fascinating in its intricacies of argument, like a bunch of rabbinical scholars debating the Talmud. I do not have the final word here, and any further references found for reviews of this book may actually establish notability. send a copy to Locus mag (they may not like self published works, who knows, but its worth a try). send copies to sf bookstores. at some point in publishing, self published, print on demand and ebooks may be so dominant that traditional publishing becomes less notable. this has not happened yet, if you glance at publishers weekly or books in print.
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who INFLUENCES the book world. any web reviewer who has become a force in the book business is also likely to have been cited somewhere, and possibly have a WP article on them. I think that by "professional" they meant major professional, like michiko kakutani of the nyt, etc, or russel letson of locus, on down to more obscure niche reviewers in many fields. like a supreme court justice said once: i cant define pornography, but i know it when i see it. sometimes notability is that slippery here, but once we recognize it, we can start to build a case for it.
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I will be glad to continue to contribute to WP on topics I know something about, but that I am not intimately related to. It is a beautiful quick reference tool that has outlined things that truly interest me, otherwise I would not have been fighting so hard to have The
Civilization Loop included.
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there are undoubtedly right now book reviewers publishing exclusively on the internet that are making money at their trade. the problem is, its hard to distinguish between someone who has paid x/yr to have a website where they write as they like (a wonderful luxury in this modern world), and someone
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Thank you
Mercury, it's like I said, I had to try. I believe in all of this what I wish I had done is searched more, edited more, before I submitted my book to anyone. Obviously the users involved in this process, particularly Goochelaar, tried to exhaust every possible avenue to keep the article
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these tools are considered a first start for establishing notability. finding citations and images does not establish notability in and of itself. a recent article, "raptor jesus", got literally tens of thousands of image/citation hits, but was deleted as nonnotable because none of the citations or
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Look, i utterly sympathize with your efforts to get the word out on your book. its obviously meaningful, important, relevant to every person who has read it. i may actually like it. hell, if you send me a copy ill probably read it, i love "2012", and terence mckenna, and jose arguelles, who i have
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Furthermore, in terms of notability, Knowledge (XXG) is not considered a highly notable source for information, specifically because of allowing any user to enter information as they see fit, from any location on Earth. Please see the following article from the New York Times blog about
Knowledge
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this is an excellently chosen title to compare with yours. its about the same length, has just a couple of reviews linked to, and is obviously not from a major author such as asimov, clarke, etc. so whats different? tor is a major trade book publisher, and has published a number of books by this
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I would also like to apologize for any rudeness I presented, particularly in the final part about professionalism, that wasn't very professional of me. That is the reason
Knowledge (XXG) prefers articles about a topic be created by an unbiased, third party who will not go on the defensive for
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I suspect your arguments will be dismissed for reasons like i gave above. PLEASE, continue to contribute to WP, we need everyone. i started with one edit of one fact that i knew, and it grew. I would like to write an article on a seminotable family member, but until i feel they have enough
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yes, thats precisely our point here. Knowledge (XXG) itself is notable, but it is automatically excluded as a primary source for information, precisely for the reasons you state. just like when we were in high school and instructed to NOT use encyclopedia articles for
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I appreciate all of the users' time and candor in this matter, and when the book is more noteworthy perhaps I will not have to be the one reposting it. It's always been a dream of mine to write something that one day becomes a movie. We'll see. Thank you all
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Not all notable books will have scholarly citations. notability as defined in WP is somewhat mutable. all the guidelines are just that, guidelines. if someone can point out an overriding criteria for notability that is not already discussed, an article can
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If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to
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which outlines the definition of what being a professional is all about. I'm sure the reviewers who practice reviewing books at these sites for a living and consider themselves professionals would have something to say about your comment.
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Google books allows self-published authors, like myself (yes, this is my book), to post their own books simply by mailing them a copy, such as
Publish America's production Vortex of Revelation which is visible on Google books currently.
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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in
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something they created in the first place. I knew my book was not noteworthy enough, but there is always that small, glimmer of hope that perhaps it might just make it. That's essentially the essence of my book, to be honest.
150:, but do not continue to repost the article if it is deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. We welcome your help in trying to improve Knowledge (XXG), and we request you to follow these instructions.
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before deleting it. Otherwise, and I know this is true from
Recreant, Goochelaar would have proposed speedy deletion and there would have been no discussion whatsoever. For that, I thank you Goochelaar.
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saying why this article should stay. An admin should check for such edits before deleting the article. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Please read our
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Scholar turns up nothing, but even The Plot to Save
Socrates hardly even has a citation, with only books such as the Harry Potter series or Stephen King novels having a large volume of citations.
121:. If you can indicate how The Civilization Loop is different from the previously posted material, or if you can indicate why this article should not be deleted, I advise you to place the template
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google books standards have nothing whatsoever to do with WP notability. books do NOT need isbns here to be notable, though for most modern works its usually necessary but not sufficient.
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I also have found it quite interesting that you refer to the two reviewers of this book as not being professionals. I would like to direct your attention to the following link:
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I have begun researching your sources you have requested others to look at, such as search, news, books, scholar, and images. Search and images have plenty related to this book.
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images were themselves notable. as you must realize, the nature of the internet is to have multiple, mirrored sources for many pieces of data. data doesnt equate to relevancy.
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during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.
537:. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.
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I would also like to add for Google books, the major stipulation for inclusion is "your books must have ISBNs in order to be included." See the site for yourself:
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If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
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Chalk that up to my inexperience there. Still getting the hang of this, but certainly enjoying it. I'll remember that from now on. Thanks!
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references, im restraining myself. good luck with your novel, and if you or your novel start to attract any more attention, add it back.
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That by definition makes any book represented hardly note worthy if that is all that is required, in addition to sending them a copy.
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well, yes, this is why a google books listing doesnt automatically confer notability. it may help show notability in some cases.
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if i may, i would like to address some of your concerns about notability, as they pertain to "loop" but also in general.
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Yello. Just wanted to say that it would be better if you provided a summary to your edits, instead of just
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Proposed deletion of The Civilization Loop: The End is the Beginning
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Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message.
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with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/The Civilization Loop
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Self-published book which only sports two website reviews.
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