29:. Later, I had second thoughts on using "upbraided" to describe the manner in which Gurnemanz initially interacted with Parsifal. 'Berate' is NOT something Gurnemanz would do. His disappointment in Parsifal after the Grail ritual was his least positive reaction in the entire opera. Only Klingsor would berate. Guilt and shame were the primary tools in Klingsor's bag-o'-tricks. Gurnemanz was as near opposite Klingsor's type as characters got in this work of Wagner's.
285:
the Holy Grail. Wagner fused several sources to create
Parsifal, and it is not merely some Christian allegory or Arthurian legend, but his own synthesis of these things. As you say, he know what he was doing, and took decades to do it. Which makes it odd that he never once refers to the Grail as the
255:, to imply that the grail in this opera is something other than the Holy Grail seems less than accurate. Wagner knew what he was doing, and took decades to finish it. He constantly made references that these items and places were not real or worldly: that the path to the grail that was not earthly -
184:
It challenges the imagination that a plate is the item used for drinking at a meal, AND also capturing blood flowing from a wound; especially if the latter action is done for a figure upon a cross. The cup or chalice is the symbol needed to express the containment of an immortal fluid which, by its
150:
No, I don't see
Parsifal as a religious work, either. For me, it's Wagner's vision of compassion as the highest form of human morality (which he took from Schopenhauer, of course). I raise the point about the "holiness" of he Grail, because Wagner was probably very familiar with Chretien de Troye's
313:
I think it's important to create links to all new terms, regardless of them being red for several reasons. It lets the user know not to bother searching for the term, it serves as a reminder that it should be created, or if it will never be created that it should use a simpler term or define it in
48:
Grail? It is very clearly implied, I know, but I think it's important to limit these things to what is actually stated - "Parsifal" suffers too much from other people's interpretations of what Wagner meant, and then it ecomes accepted that this is really what Wagner meant: when this may not be the
309:
Instead of deleting the cowry speices list entirely perhaps we could make corrections and I will add a tag (expert or possibly fact) to warn the reader. So far I have been lucky enough not to get into an edit war, probably because I stick to the science articles. Ooh a hummingbird just flew by.
243:
Since this is a public forum, I will refrain from casting pearls... The opera becomes rather coherent and transparent once the archtypic actions associated with the main characters are recognized. In my searches around the web, it is easily seen that a great many folk assign deep, mystical
43:
for further ways to improve the article. I notice that you changed references in the synopsis for "the Grail" to "the Holy Grail". When I wrote this synopsis I tried to stick very closely to what Wagner had actually put in the libretto. I'm wondering if he anywhere explicitly refers to the
177:
four different words are used to refer to the grail and this item is plainly described in the german lyrics as the vessel from which the redeemer drank at the last supper AND the same vessel that caught the blood from the spear-wound at the cross. In one line alone, Gurnemanz sings,
76:
vessel (cup/chalice) in all of human culture which has ever been associated with collecting the blood of a redeemer,... on a cross,... after said redeemer's side was pierced,... with a spear. Additionally, in the 1st Act, Gurnemanz specifically refers to it as
259:
and relics handed down from the angels. The use of
Monsalvat in the article is misleading in that the domain of the grail is not in the world, it is in the mind. Wagner had earthly models for his scenes but the scenes were not depicting earthly places.
263:
OK, one pearl,... As
Parsifal assumes the role of King of the Grail, and the lance and grail are once again united, Kundry dies. "When logic and proportion have fallen smokey dead,..." I doubt the need to finish that verse...
151:
version of
Percival, where the chalice is a simple Graal - a plate - holding a magical wafer which sustains life. This then has nothing to do with the Grail of Joseph of Arimathea. Have a look at the article on
155:
and see what you think. Wagner retains this life-giving property of his Grail - it keeps
Titurel alive until he is refused it by Amfortas. Which makes me wonder if he deliberately avoided calling it Holy.--
115:
which I purchased, in the 1980s, for the princely sum of US$ 60 (plus tax) at a retail music store in Texas. Its translation of the libretto, by Lionel Salter, more correctly relates the key 1st Act phrase
170:
I read through most of the Wiki article on "Holy Grail" and looked at both disambiguations. It remains an inescapable conclusion that Wagner intended the image of the Holy Grail to be invoked.
98:, with (somewhat suspect) english translation by Stewart Robb, Herr Wagner does not use the word "Christian" but, of course, the parallels cannot be avoided, despite my desire
133:
be a parody since the characters are so sharply defined as to approach being caricatures, though I suspect Wagner intended them as archtypes.
22:
I fancy that I understand a few things (i.e., delusional nerd-type); that's why I mess around in the odd topic here in
Knowledge (XXG).
180:
daraus er trank beim letzen
Liebesmahle, das Weihgefäss, die heilig edle Schale, darein am Kreuz sein göttlich' Blut auch floss,...
281:
I'm not suggesting that the Grail in
Parsifal is something other than the Holy Grail, I'm suggesting that it is something
236:= masculine, (-s) = plural form, and the ~ is where the object word is inserted. That is the entire entry; in german,
322:
173:
In what is the main aria for
Gurnemanz in the 1st Act (and, possibly, the entire work), which begins with "
36:
and failed to add a comment as to why the change was made. The previous paragraph is that explanation.
318:
81:
which, while not directly given in my Langenscheit's, follows this same dictionary's translation of
314:
the current article. Red links are also useful for analysis by scripts (most wanted pages, etc).
291:
160:
58:
199:
The grail is referred to many times by Wagner as 'holy' using adjectives and prefixes like "
193:
of eternal life), as it had for Titurel. Once the sight of "hope" was lost, even Titurel
120:
as "realm of the true faith" as opposed to the Schirmer's "realm of Christian faith."
287:
267:
211:
and, going once again to the Langenscheit's dictionary (New Edition, 1973), the word
156:
136:
54:
19:
I am an electronics technician by vocation and an eclectic browser most of the time.
286:
Holy Grail, when he clearly does so for the Spear. Never mind. I'll let it rest. --
248:
LP album, if anyone wishes to peek behind the veil, just wander out to the edge.
89:
as a "grail" or "chalice," should all of those references be changed, also?
32:
I got slightly rushed in finishing my self-correction to my first change to
244:
significance to this opera. Like the woodcut inside the cover of Donovan's
41:
326:
295:
275:
164:
144:
72:
I'm not sure, of course, but there is, so far as I can discover, only
62:
85:
to "holy water." Since this authorative dictionary never refers to
152:
102:
avoid them. It is soooo obviously Christian in nature that to
92:
In looking through my copy of G. Schirmer's opera score of
53:, I can't see that this is ever the case for the Grail. --
40:
Hi! Welcome to Parsifal. You might want to have look at
25:
Most recently, I've touched up the page on Wagner's
251:However, concerning the Knowledge (XXG) article on
8:
129:as a religious work. At times, it seems it
215:has only one usage. The exact line reads,
49:case. While the Spear is referred to as
7:
257:kein Weg fĂĽrht zu Inh durch das Land
106:mention it makes its own statement.
14:
185:very presence, can sustain life (
109:I have the LONDON recording of
232:The dictionary notations are:
1:
296:18:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
276:13:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
165:18:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
145:16:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
63:10:52, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
195:starb - ein Mensch wie alle.
175:Titurel, der fromme Held,..
342:
123:I do not, personally, see
327:16:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
118:des reinen Glaubens Reich
306:Thanks for the welcome!
271:
240:means "the Holy Grail".
140:
69:Greetings, Dogbertd!
333:
229:the Holy Grail"
341:
340:
336:
335:
334:
332:
331:
330:
319:Craig Pemberton
304:
12:
11:
5:
339:
337:
317:Best regards,
303:
300:
299:
298:
168:
167:
68:
66:
65:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
338:
329:
328:
324:
320:
315:
311:
307:
301:
297:
293:
289:
284:
280:
279:
278:
277:
273:
269:
265:
261:
258:
254:
249:
247:
246:Cosmic Wheels
241:
239:
235:
230:
228:
224:
221:
216:
214:
210:
206:
202:
197:
196:
192:
188:
182:
181:
176:
171:
166:
162:
158:
154:
149:
148:
147:
146:
142:
138:
134:
132:
128:
127:
121:
119:
114:
113:
107:
105:
101:
97:
96:
90:
88:
84:
80:
75:
70:
64:
60:
56:
52:
47:
42:
39:
38:
37:
35:
30:
28:
23:
20:
17:
316:
312:
308:
305:
282:
266:
262:
256:
252:
250:
245:
242:
237:
233:
231:
227:der Heilge ~
226:
222:
219:
217:
212:
208:
204:
200:
198:
194:
190:
186:
183:
179:
174:
172:
169:
135:
130:
125:
124:
122:
117:
111:
110:
108:
103:
99:
94:
93:
91:
86:
82:
78:
73:
71:
67:
50:
45:
33:
31:
26:
24:
21:
18:
15:
83:Weihwasser
79:Weihgefäss
283:more than
16:Hi, all.
288:Dogbertd
268:Makuabob
253:Parsifal
157:Dogbertd
137:Makuabob
126:Parsifal
112:Parsifal
95:Parsifal
55:Dogbertd
34:Parsifal
27:Parsifal
302:Cowries
225:(-s):
207:, and
201:heilig
87:gefäss
153:Grail
131:could
323:talk
292:talk
272:talk
238:Gral
220:Gral
213:Gral
209:edle
205:Weih
191:hope
187:i.e.
161:talk
141:talk
59:talk
51:Holy
46:Holy
104:not
74:one
325:)
294:)
274:)
203:,
189:,
163:)
143:)
100:to
61:)
321:(
290:(
270:(
234:m
223:m
218:"
178:"
159:(
139:(
57:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.