705:. Please bear in mind that while Mels actions reflect on his professionalism, your actions reflect on your professionalism. A professional does not let emotion cloud judgement, nor dictate arbitrary decisions, actions, or behavior. Again I ask. Please help me settle this article down. Personal differences are things that must be set aside. If it is unpleasant working with him, or any other, you are a volunteer — move on to something that doesn't create friction and remember no matter how 'perfect' you might some day make any article, some idiot can come in tomarrow and edit it no matter what you like. That's currently official Knowledge (XXG) policy, and frankly, one which kept me from making bigger and more frequent contributions for over six months. I also foresee a day when many articles will be established as 'done', and locked. It is not close, but once the reputation becomes great enough, to keep funding for the foundation supporting it, they will have to take such steps.
918:
You might want to add and extend your post to his RfC, which ArbCom will certainly be looking at soon... as if some haven't already. Mel is well respected, despite the issues of misunderstanding between you, which in the main seem to involve posting procedures. I actually think he likes you, except that he got burned because you back posted 'interleaved style', without leaving a note on the bottom as well with an uplink, and he's policing so many things, you ended up blind siding him (=Attack without warning, Attack=Change) a few times. We've been exchanging emails on MT, so I've asked some questions about the whole edit war. Handy thing email. Especially for discrete privacy!
379:), of the arguement or arguments you consider vital and germane to the discusion and vote. Frankly, MOST all of you are being silly over nothing of particular importance, since both names can be redirected into the one used. I have left a comment concerning my contribution to the article, which contribution — seems to have triggered the current edit and revision wars. For that I apologize, but see the Comments on the vote. I am also taking the liberty of putting the vote section AFTER the Comments about same.
754:
text to the singular, which shows a poor grasp of
Knowledge (XXG) collaboration, and which creates a conflict between content and text that looks bad to readers. My belief is that this now counts as vandalism rather than good-faith editing, as he's been warned by me and others, and continues to make his changes. I shall check with other admins, and if there's agreement, then the next time he makes this change he will be blocked from editing for a period.
563:. But the chain of reasoning depends on YOUR SOURCE and the PROPER MEANING of whether the channel is 2km wide, or the istmus is 2km wide. There's a world of difference between the two! If so, I probably (Almost certainly, I polarized the arguement so they decided to move it and bring the issue on the table for a final settlement of the issue.) caused this last edit war. If my reading of your information, and the information are both correct,
501:
and an appeal for them to look at your foreign language websites since most of us are not multilingual. (I am
Jealous of your skill there!) In any event, I am doing all that I can to settle this once and for all, however it comes out on the evidence. I should have 30+ people by Tuesday to give an opinion both on the translation issues, and on the best way to word it in English.
757:
If the consensus is to change the article's name, then I will defend the new version in just the same way. Until that consensus has been determined, I shall defend the current version. If editors have the courtesy to provide edit summaries, and to defend their actions on the Talk page, then I'll do
708:
In the meantime, if working on it, or working with some editor keeps generating strong feelings, why not leave that project for more peaceful making co-editors and another topic. Wiki is a large place. Make some notes on notepad.exe, and take a
Tsushima break from Mel and Tan. Visit the article again
500:
I've spent most of the day trying to make heads or tails out of this. I'm currently contacting people with postings on
Japanese articles with a lot of experience and leaving them a version of the message I just left you above. The other boiler plate on the cut N paste is an introduction of the issue,
1095:
I was reading the article on the
Emperor's divinity (actually his declaration that he was not a deity). You mentioned in the talk page that that is not the japanese view. Could you explain to me or point me to a website, where the Japanese view is explained? If the japanese didn't believe that the
638:
AS YOU'VE RESEARCHED THEM. Then state your opinions, and any supporting evidence like the web sites, even if they need translated. In sum, it will all depend on the case you present for your side. Mel will probably help some, but he's buried in finals week with little free time. I told you some days
322:
Get to the point here: What we want here is to add information! There is no need to constrict our research to the old history books at all. We, however, should expand our mind and accept theories by modern historians. The problem, I suspect, that you do not accept Hangul; therefore you do not accept
917:
Friday I finally waded through the whole Talk:TI page, as I'm trying to figure out what to do with and about MT in the RfC and ArbCom Mel is preparing. However! I was much impressed by your acedemics versus 'CU' arguements... I have exactly the same read. If there is a debate, want you on my team.
753:
All this eagerness to bring an RfC against me is exciting, though the reasons seem obscure. Still, I came here to say this. There is a discussion and poll concerning the change of the article title from plural to singular; while this has been going on, Nanshu has insisted on changing the article
633:
What you need to do for them and yourself is this: You need to prepare and present a very neat simple well worded case of why you believe the matter should be plural, and what evidence you have definitely supports that POV... You should copy down some of the important web links that have convinced
164:
Before you make large edits, please discuss them first on the article's talk page and wait until a consensus is reached. What you do could eventually be considered as vandalism (let's hope not). Imposing your ideas on other people is something that nobody likes, as Mr Tan has proven. We must first
1066:
Thanks for the message. re:Long time no see. Sorry for not meeting your requests regarding
Tsushima. I had difficulty in real life, but now I'm back to Knowledge (XXG). I will restart fixing Tsushima-related articles next week, as currently I cannot have access to the books I referred to because
543:
when you wrote about the Navy blasting through the isthmus, or what I wrote and you quoted means nothing. If you prove that, you prove the Island has been permanently divided. Nothing else will save my paragraph as I wrote it; it was based on what you wrote just minutes before, and no one saw you
980:
needs a list of military forces particular to your country and any others you may be able to expand upon. At the moment, these lists at the bottom are extremely 'Anglo-centric' (USA + UK). Please pass this on to others you know in other countries after checking theirs hasn't been updated since I
567:
will my paragraph be correct. I don't think that's going to happen. Cutting a canal makes a whole lot more sense than distroying 2km of land of an isthmus. The logical thing is that I made a mistake, and nobody questioned me about it because I had added my historical references at the same time.
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on the MOVE at all, I voted that if the MOVE VOTE DEADLOCKED, I would support the proposed compromise... the single word title 'Tsushima'. You should vote there as well. I mean to put an end to this nonsense one way or the other. Do you realize there are well over 300 small edits to this article
1070:
Welcome Back — I've been overly busy off Wiki myself, and today I'm taking a real bonifide break for a Trip to see the family. Hopefully, will have regular time I can give Wiki once school starts up (Sepetember!) Do try to keep any controvery down in
Tsushima — Mel Thinks Tan is still lurking
820:
and register a (probable) vehement vote to a straw poll on mergers that I'm posting among other info. Give me at least half an hour to clear out, as I have to go up and see/address Barus comments. (I suspect it's near your bedtime anyway — hopefully you're having a sexy good time! <G:
306:
Furthermore, don't restrict your evidence to
Nihonshoki, Shoku Nihongi and Samguk Sagi. I understand that these things are the best things to ground my claim, but new historical evidence are found everyday! So, we cannot restrict our information to old sources; we must expand our views.
435:
If you are local to Japan, some history of the canals or Sea-channel is certainly germane to the ongoing discussion, moreover, any cogent arguement you condsider being particularly telling needs to be clearly repeated in the current on going comments if you want them counted on in the
382:
Still, I have just spent over four hours of valuable spare time, and would welcome your thoughts after you read and understand the distinction I put forth between a governments termonology as a governing body and a geographical reference like an archepelego, which it certainly
200:
You have (again) changed the article to read "Tsushima Island", when the title is till "Islands", and there is a current debate on renaming. This is now vandalistic rather than good-faith editing, and if you continue in this behaviour, you will be treated accordingly.
884:. If there is a problem, just tag it with a 'disputed' template, and refer it to me, with some ammunition. I'll battle MT. Thanks. This is where I BUMPED into MT initially, so it makes sense I don't know what was there is reliable before my adds. Sigh! THANKS! FrankB
857:
I took most of the weekend off, though I do know Mel thought there was insufficient consensus to move the TI article. I'm trying to get him and James Bell to change their votes, and if that happens, perhaps a couple more of the five can be persuaded as
310:
Are you a
Japanese? I saw that what you checked on Tsushima is Japanese; you must also check out on Korean sources as well. That is what I did; I did not see you ever hinting any Korean sources on Tsushima. This may be the problem to your objections.
443:. Now is the time to take a deep breath, for rational concise summaries, not all the arguing that is so wearisome in 66 printed pages - half a novelette, I'd guess! It's certainly a lot to ask your fellow editors to wade through on a minor issue.
639:
ago that I have no dog in this fight. Well, I do — Honor — The RIGHT THING to do. That is what I am doing now, so I must go back to contacting
Japanese savvy contributors and alerting them to the fact that this issue needs settled. You and
874:
article... I'd pick on Baru, but I already did so Friday, and he's so new, I don't want to again just yet. This concerns Japan Vs. Korea history, a strength of yours, I believe (infer). (Or don't argue so well from now on! <G:
295:
I also encounter similar difficulties with Mel. He always reverted changes at the expense of the better ones. I will negotiate with him slowly, and I will see if the discussions is not futile. You can see his attitude in
101:. Please let all the content stay united. Also, I have answered your questions. Hope you are happy. The Korean name is not to be removed as it was already there in the history of [[Tsushima province long before i came.
516:. If we took that as evidence of anything, it would be evidence that I was guilable of believing a fact and then adding it's historical context — again, I cover that at great length in the TALK. Read it very carefully.
792:
Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in
337:
I partially agree with you. However, new historical resources can be came out of thorough research from lost history books, or archeological evidence. The facts that you have removed are from there!
643:
have made a mess of this and should both be embarrased. So since he put it to the vote, lets settle it one way or the other — as you know, there are lots of other things to be working on!
386:
More to the point, I'd like to see your defense regarding your favorite POV of what I had to say viz a viz the mergest attitude of the senior editors and administrators that frequent the
110:
Please do not delete the facts; other users have agreed on the old facts and the are true. What you did is considered as vandalism. However, you may contribute to the article further.
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in 3 or 4 weeks, and see if your data is there. Add it if it's not, be surprised if it is. But no matter what, keep your dignity and professionalism. Remember — YOU can always be
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Yes, the reasons are quite obscure - even I cannot understand them. In any case, these are the users who might eventually bring a case against Mel: Jack, William, Hans, and you.
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In any event, I'm yelling for extra troops, and will produce some disinterested outside parties with no emotional attachments in this matter to add their neutral views as well.
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discussions. To my recollection, I don't recollect any of you hotheads in this dispute ever spending anytime thereon, possibly excepting Mel Etitis, but rarely even then.
33:
1132:; if you are opposed to being considered for adminship, please cross out your name (but do not delete it, as it will automatically be re-added in the next page update).
863:
Do I correctly infer that you are another acedemic, Like Mel, or do you just have an uncommonly good 'Logical Mind'? Some of your discussion was tip-top notch! Kudos.
653:
Compose that well, and state your points professionally, without emotion, and certainly, without refering to any of the other people that have been in the revert war!
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as I care to get! SCTRATCH THAT TOO. I do look like a fool here. No Question. But I'm an honest fool and learned long ago to admit my mistakes. This is a whopper.
123:
As you may have realised, this article is a sensitive one for some reason. It is best not to make major edits without first discussing them on the Talk page.
246:
Nanshu, you say that you want references to what I type into the factual accounts? Sorry for the delay, but I will attend to you later as I am very busy now.
797:? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. --
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a dozen other Administrators I'm acquainted with take a look at the debate after the time below. I will in fact ask for twenty commitments, so be clear and
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btw, on the above, I've concluded for a variety of reasons, ususally multiple, that none of them should be merged! (Don't know if you've seen that yet.)
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to mailing other Japanese on the Japanese Interests BB? You know, just go down the list with a message in the cut buffer and post to each one in turn.
1096:
emperor was a god, what did they think of him, what is his relationship with the shinto religion? Thanks for your help. Just trying to understand.
456:
Thankyou for your time, attention, and good professional behaviour. I'll check the Talk state again no sooner than Monday around Noon (UTC), And ask
222:
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Since I wasn't watching the article, I didn't catch my own error until about ten hours ago when I built the arguements I pulled out and put under
1121:. If you have not done so lately, please take a look at that page and check your listing to be sure that following the particulars are correct:
659:
Good luck — Both of you! (I'm going to copy this to Nanshu right now, he deserves the clarification of my POV). ] 05:21, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
679:
Your posting of an attack on Mel Etitis on the Tshshima Talk page is probably the wrong venue, and a bad idea, especially now. I suspect
932:
Hope you didn't mind the email -- I was undergoing major Wikiwithdrawal -- and thought I'd share! Would appreciate Feedback on POV on
572:. As best I can see. That's what happened. My mistake. Everyone else trusting my writing. The answer to the proper term lies elsewhere.
880:
that has Mr Tans fingerprints all over it. Can you look the whole thing over quickly, but first see my specific concern at this link:
67:
status is unclear, so it may have to be deleted. Please leave a note on the image page about the source of the image. Thank you.--
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you so strongly (In whatever language, but use the 'pipe trick' to tag the ones that are not english), but calmly tell only JUST
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592:, as it turns out) without having any idea of how unstable the article was, and in fact, should have been in bed hours sooner.
1105:あなたにもっとウィキの中立的観点とは何かということを勉強して頂きたいという小さな希望がありますよ。 ヤマトのウヨさん。捏造、妄想は２ちゃんで行ってください。そこならお構いありませんので。くれぐれもみんなが集まる この貴重な空間を詭弁で荒らさないでね。
614:
Furthermore, look at my two changes in history. Immediately before, there are reverts and edit wars. For a while after, they
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The new map would be fine if it were larger and of higher quality. Could you provide a decent version (in PNG format)?
303:
Ah yes, the answers that you were pending for are all found in the Tsushima Islands talk page (including the archive)
758:
the same. If not, then I'll take advantage of the admnistrators' rollback function (which is what it's there for).
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59:
936:— my attempt to be balanced may need expanded into greater length. Please post to the talk there! Thanx. FrankB
32:
Hi Nanshu, do you see a problem if aymags would be made uppercase? would like to hear your opinion at the page:
483:
I am afraid that I cannot make out very clearly what you stated on the voting poll--do you mean that you voted
735:. I'm sure many other people will be willing to help you out in making it. But please, not in the talk page.
144:
Wholesale edits of the kind you keep making need to be discussed and explained on the article's Talk page.
813:
83:
ll promise you that I will come back after May 10 to answer your pending questions and disagreements. Can?
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Articles, would you be interested, or can you suggest an individual with military history as an interest?
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you agree to the move, Mr Bartus, I would be happy if you can explain why did you add the paragraph on
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on how the Island is blasted into two in the first place? Again, your comment is greatly appreciated.
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to finish the job. As it is, this matter will probably double the time it takes for such a simple job.
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around with a couple of socket puppet names, and edit wars are best when they never happen! Cheers!
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If you are currently interested in being considered for adminship, please be sure your name is in
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The other 67 pages of the talk are way too much to expect anyone but God to be able to sort out.
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Also I am looking for a Japanese Wikiphile to back me up on the large upgrade I am doing on the
584:... see the reference and dates I cited, and copied into the talk from the difference program.
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Please check to see if you are in the right category for classification by number of edits.
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before I suspended that effort the other night because this shameful fued was going on —
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even better - call it XY Province, would be more in line with other subnational entities
683:(W:RfC) is the more correct procedure. It is evident to me that Mel has probably been
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I will make sure this message goes to each contributor to the article the past month,
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what you meant to say. Make sure you Find the question that I asked you to answer in
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Next, My comments, and the history I looked at and put in as background showed that
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Your case will rise and fall with the tight sentences you place under discussion.
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Hi Nanshu, if you want to criticize Mel Etitis, please do it in an RfC, not in
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libraries are closed for Bon Festival. --Nanshu 01:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
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just left for me a short while ago, I felt this explaination was something
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618:... (I guess that's a compliment of sorts) then pick up frequency again.
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personal attacks on a talk page (or anywhere) only invite counter attacks
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source that information. I didn't realize it myself until this afternoon.
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In any event, I'm neutral here, and have asked that the article be kept
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A translation task for you, can you please translate the articles of
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That should answer the below question of yours very well. The key is
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Just a friendly heads up— through some magic I don't understand the
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hi there Nanshu, i am trying to get a discussion going on renaming
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Can you tell me which translator you use to view the Korean pages?
428:. I saved that on my hard drive, but I don't need to wade through
36:(start a new section for mongolia if there is none) best regards
551:, as I was up a very long time that night. My historical facts
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since May 13th? That's a ridiculous waste of time and energy.
697:— only what actions you take on or because of such feelings —
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I am afraid that, at this point, I now believe this event was
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to do the same. PLEASE BE CONCISE. ] 23:07, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
713:
coming back and making changes to the article. Keep smiling!
183:
Again, please go to the Talk page befor making major edits.
1125:
If you are an admin, please remove your name from the list.
323:
new information. I can also read little Japanese, however.
1119:
Knowledge (XXG):List of non-admins with high edit counts
968:, maybe you care to comment? thanks, looking forward...
479:, so I copy this message to him to you too. Tan asks:
904:
I was going to email this, but yours is not connected:
527:. YOU NEED TO PRODUCE THE SOURCE OF THAT INFORMATION,
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with his abrubt reversions etc. Your feelings, like
81:
I see that you have some questions to ask me, but I
1021:as well. The Koreans seem to be counterattacking.
620:SO I want some sources before I decide either way
374:after you read my Comments in the subject dispute
34:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Subnational_entities
514:the Japanese Navy blasting through the Isthmus
367:Before I Vote on 'Move Tsushima Islands' Issue
1056:Knowledge (XXG):Images and media for deletion
8:
868:I need a trifling little bit of help on the
372:I would appreciate a rational explaination (
357:concerning my new addition of data. Thanks.
908:On the move article debate: Have you given
446:I will also personally be making sure that
300:--I was trying to improve the article and
225:; you might be interested in contributing.
223:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for comment/Mr Tan
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663:A bit of advice] 05:09, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
487:on the move, but with certain conditions?
420:, unfortunately, on whether one uses the
1117:Greetings, editor! Your name appears on
882:Talk:Tsushima_Strait#Need_Fact_checked
981:looked. (This is a Wiki-Chain letter!)
477:you should also be absolutely clear on
411:I'd copyedited over two and half hours
1139:Thank you, and have a wiki wiki day!
829:(For your convienience: Press --: -->
7:
812:When you get a minute or three, see
681:Knowledge (XXG):Request for Comment
165:discuss the matter. Thanks a lot.
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878:I wrote around some stuff therein
1091:Regarding the Emperor's divinity
667:] 05:09, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)": -->
441:so you are not being singled out
1017:. Get there soon, and pop into
976:The rough but maturing article
687:at quelling this edit war, and
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1038:Image:Unidentified photo03.jpg
694:any feelings are 'never' wrong
689:probably has contributed to it
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703:The proper venue is the W:RfC
60:Image:MN Govisumber aymag.png
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816:. You'll also want to check
701:, and rarely help anything.
586:I just happened to sit down
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788:lots of edits, not an admin
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519:It NOW appears to me that
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929:03:42, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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510:derived based on the data
452:respectful of our time!!!
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57:Thank you for uploading
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549:a misreading on my part
541:I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY
506:my work that you quoted
353:I need help concerning
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93:Please do not seperate
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1047:Image deletion warning
934:Treaty of Shimonoseki
822:). ttfn, Best Regards,
814:Talk:Tsushima_Province
622:. This is as close to
557:numbered explainations
470:Regarding this message
415:proper English grammer
1011:Talk:Tsushima Islands
1004:Heads Up on Tsushimas
992:Best wishes! Thanks!
818:Talk:Tsushima Islands
733:Talk:Tsushima Islands
458:the uninvolved others
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849:I Need a Little Help
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38:Tobias Conradi
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53:Image source
31:
578:YOU 'first'
533:Logical AND
491:NO, I Have
418:does depend
401:by placing
265:So Haruyasu
27:aymag-: -->
1015:Final Vote
876:) You see
799:Rick Block
765:Μελ Ετητης
760:Mel Etitis
409:into it —
399:three days
232:Μελ Ετητης
227:Mel Etitis
208:Μελ Ετητης
203:Mel Etitis
190:Μελ Ετητης
185:Mel Etitis
151:Μελ Ετητης
146:Mel Etitis
130:Μελ Ετητης
125:Mel Etitis
910:a thought
795:this list
636:THE FACTS
539:THE WHAT
493:NOT voted
395:EDIT FREE
65:copyright
978:Military
970:Bhinneka
448:at least
426:singular
407:template
1098:Cjrs 79
966:Akihito
960:Akihito
582:blasted
537:BACK UP
531:(i.e a
424:or the
298:Zanskar
286:Thanks!
1144:BD2412
641:Nanshu
607:Mr Tan
473:Mr Tan
422:plural
361:Mr Tan
114:Mr Tan
105:Mr Tan
63:. Its
28:Aymag?
1113:entry
1111:WP:NA
858:well.
553:prove
436:vote.
405:Inuse
242:Hello
97:from
16:<
1130:bold
804:talk
778:Bell
740:Bell
669:edit
529:plus
525:bold
508:was
403:The
170:Bell
69:Aqua
1079:nkB
1074:Fra
1029:nkB
1024:Fra
996:||
947:||
925:||
894:||
875:-->
821:-->
485:yes
383:is.
341:Tan
330:Tan
315:Tan
288:Tan
250:Tan
217:RfC
88:Tan
833:)
775:JM
737:JM
599:If
167:JM
116:,
1151:T
806:)
802:(
781:°
767:)
762:(
743:°
673:]
234:)
229:(
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173:°
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148:(
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127:(
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