User talk:Peter Entwisle

1196:

because that was my "POV." Many of us use nom de plumes to hide from our wives, employers, clients or publishers the hours we spend on our computers not doing what we are supposed to be doing. There is also the other important factor of hiding from internet nutters and the various other strange people who inhabit the darker recesses of the internet. You would be surprised how many of those who edit here, using their own names have been stalked or threatened as a consequence in real life. You live in a nice warm, safe part of the world. Be glad. Just think, because you use your real name, I could turn up on your doorstep with inumerable children, demaning a food and bed while I investigate chimneys on Otago. That threat ought to convince you of the wisdom of a nom de plume.

916:, and we can use it on Knowledge. If you take a photo of a person, then you may need to have their permission to release it, especially if they are not a public figure and are being portrayed in an unflattering or private context. A photo (or scan) of a painting, existing photo etc which is already under copyright comes under the same copyright as the original. If the original is out of copyright, then the photo you take of it is okay, but a work does not go out of copyright until 70 years after the death of its author in Florida. In New Zealand, copyright ends 50 years after the death of its author, and it seems to be acceptable on Knowledge to upload such pictures with the 989:"source filename" prompt, which will allow you to browse your hard disk to find the photo. The "destination filename" will be filled in automatically, but if the name is not a intuitive one you should replace it with for example "William_Mason_architect.jpg". Fill out the summary as best you can. For the drop-down "Licensing" box, I suggest you choose "Author died more than 100 years ago" for a photo out of copyright, even if the author actually died more recently, and explain the actual situation in the summary box. Finally click the "Upload" button. When the upload is complete, add the image to the article by adding this markup to the article:] 21: 1610:

it substantial because of the size of the town or because it is no longer in use as a municipal centre. I've modified the comment slightly. I've been slowly going throught he article copyediting it - I've gone through the first couple of sections so far. It's mainly just been stylistic points; you know far more about the building than I do, I'm sure. If there are any changes you're unhappy with, feel free to change them back, but hopefully it's all fairly straightforward. James -

1163:

church reviving the Gothic style - remember Westminster Hall from which this borrows. The clear evidence of New Zealand's colonialism in its buildings are the wholly timber structures - sometimes imitating stone - with their verandahs and corrugated iron roofs. Larnach Castle is the classic case of a "serious" building colonialised, or provincialised, by the addition of absurd (and slightly wonderful) verandahs. No wonder Lawson didn't want to know about it.

1704:) would be useful. A rough plan would make the "Name" section easier to follow. Some parts, on the inspiration for the 1st phase's design and the comparisons with other structures, have no citations. More photos would be nice: e.g. of comparable buildings, of Lawson, of the organ, etc. The town hall seems a bit remote in the lead photo, too. These are the sorts of things that mean it hasn't reached B-class yet, in my view. But it's well on the way." 1668:

is a Category I NZ historic place while the Fraser additions are a category II one. I note you've included some reference to the NZHPT site concerning the Municipal Chambers. I should probably mention both registrations somewhere in the text. Im also aware that the main auditorium's seating capacity isn't mentioned - 3,300 in 1930 and now 2,800. This is partly because of the difficulty of sourcing those figures. I may add them at some time.

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or whoever commissioned you to make that copy - not the owner of the copyright in the thing you copied. This is why people who own copyrights have to guard them and control other people making copies. Of course, if you do make a copy of something which has existing copyrights belonging to someone else you may be liable to some sort of action from them and penalties. But the copyright in the offending copy still belongs to you.

1694:) who has done a lot of work in the past on assessing articles to see what improvements are needed - he suggested several possible improvements for the article: "The lead seems a bit short; it gives a brief if slightly bland overview of the topic, and could usefully be expanded to summarise more of the article. Along with relevant wikilinks, this would help the reader put the topic in context more quickly. A building infobox ( 2331:

shift over several years from an initial spread of early middle and late bands, to a concentration on the late band only. I took notes at the time but cannot find them, but next Thursday I'll check the journals in which they were published. Perhaps I have misremembered the result, or the result is not significant because many of the people asked were not the experts on this particular matter, or consensus has moved on since.

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Lawson returned to Dunedin in 1900 but the article offers reasons. I hesitate to try to improve it which would require eliminating the speculation which might upset the original author. I annoyed that person with my earlier additions and now feel uncomfortable about doing that again. In the interest of truth and objectivity I suppose a revision is in order but... Could you ask the first author to work on it?

1276: 1555:. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Knowledge, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Knowledge, in this case: ]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. -- 542:

somebody put in a statement that the first cemeteries were made in dunedin in the 1860s. They're thinking of the Northern and Southern cemeteries but there was an older European one on what is now the reserve at Arthur Street. Of course Maori had been buried here earlier - notably Te Rakiihia c.1785. I may modify that statement later accordingly. I hope no-one is offended.

1961:, the former NZ Express Company Building in Dunedin's exchange area. One of the books I used as a reference says it has a Grade I NZHPT classification, yet i can find on reference to the building in the historic Places trust's online registry of buildings. So you know what its classification is, if anything? I'd be extremely surprised if it wasn't listed. Thanks, James 2512: 1345:

will not go at the bottom of the page to prove it is an accurate account. All of us are guilty at some point of droping in the odd fact and opinion that is our own, but it is not supposed to happen. I am not humphed, just trying to give you some advice before "Randy from Boise" comes along and reverts you. That's it, nothing more to say.

2067:. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are 2355:

outlier and I don't think many people were inclined to accept it. Lowe also references the continuing re-evaluation of old occupation sites - a useful process because older radio carbon dates from them, showing earlier times of occupation are being helpfully corrected. But the larger picture doesn't seem much changed.

2366:

The second consideration is based on Maori oral tradition. There are some whakapapa and migration traditions which suggest a significantly earlier first arrival than 1250 AD. It is difficult to know what weight to place on this but with the conservative nature of the physical evidence you end up with

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I recall that there was a survey of New Zealand archaeologists at their annual conference for several years in the mid 2000s, asking them what they thought the most likely date of first settlement was. Excluding outlying responses from people who didn't take the survey seriously, there was a distinct

2038:

Yes, sorry about the quiz questions. I didn't know you were the quizmaster. I only saw that in today's ODT. I sent them an answer to your points: Busby was a diplomat and his appointment didn't imply the appointer, or the appointee, had any jurisdiction here. Hobson was Lieutenant Governor designate,

1873:

I've had a quick look at it. It isn't entirely clear to me what additional references are desired. It is also clear to me that this article is mostly somebody else's production. While there is much in it that is admirable there is quite a bit which is purely speculative. For example, no-one knows why

1344:

Last word on the subject: I am trying to point out, probably badly, that you are adding too many unreferenced facts and opinions. If you are writing a book for publication that is fine, but you are writing here an encyclopedia, also remember that all Knowledge work is uncredited. That means your name

1190:

Well, your more native than I am. Yes, I'm very grumpy, but not so old, my wife and several children will agree with you there. POV means point of view, you are not allowed to have one here, unless you can find forty authors of varying competence to support that view. I disagree with completely about

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2.You say "A photo (or scan) of a painting, existing photo etc which is already under copyright comes under the same copyright as the original." This is a widely believed misapprehension. If you make a copy of something which is under another person's copyright, copyright in the copy belongs to you -

911:

Copyright on photos is one of those legal matters which can be difficult to understand, and the law changes from country to country. Knowledge is governed by the laws of Florida. I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you take a photo yourself of something which is not itself copyrighted,

625:

Hi again. Another user, Grutness, noted that you were quite knowledgable on the matter, and I apologize if the above sounded a bit patronising - I was simply basing the tone of my comment on your (apparently recent) start with Knowledge, not on your knowledge of the matter. As Grutness noted, you may

582:

By the way, I haven't introduced myself. I'm an Auckland editor, and I know Grutness quite well through Knowledge although I've never met him. I make most of my substantial edits on history of small towns in Northland, although I have no qualifications related to history. Just at the moment, I'm busy

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Mmm. Unless one wants to embark on an elaborate re-writing of the history of Otago and New Zealand it would be simpler to just stay with things as they are. Somebody else might like to do that work but I'm trying to stay within the boundaries of what's known now. It's not worth 'breaking things out'

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Dear dweller. You're right some of the material is about the Weller brothers' role in the development of Otago and New Zealand. I'll give some thought to what you say but the reason people are interested in the Wellers, why they're 'notable', is because of their significance in that regard. One could

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I removed it, because I was not aware that you had written it for ODT and still retained copyright. I apologise. Nevertheless, it wasn't entirely suitable for Knowledge because it duplicated much of the article's existing content, and was written in a style entirely suitable for an obituary, but not

2317:

You're right there's a lot of to-ing and fro-ing on this but I don't think Lowe's paper really changes much. There are early, middle and late bands of dates favoured by various people. He just seems to be another late bander. 1150 is about the middle. Hamel 2001 gives an overview. I don't think much

1609:

Dear Peter, yes, it was me who added the comment about "the only substantial Victorian town hall still in existence" - it came from David McGill's book "Landmarks: Notable historic buildings of New Zealand." Given your comment about Port Chalmers, I can only assume that either McGill didn't consider

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is rather wierd and wonderful. I would still like to scramble on the roof of Otago Boy's School and investigate the turrets of the tower, if at least some of them are not chimneys, I would be amazed. However, that is not likely to ghappen in the near future and has been rightly removed from the page

988:

If you have a digital photo on your hard drive, you can upload it by clicking on the "Upload file" link on the left side of the screen. For a photo which is out of copyright, choose "Other" from the following screen. In the form that follows, it's best to click on the little icon to the right of the

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4. You say "If the author is not known, then copyright ends 50 years from the time the photo was first published." Again, no, this is just a rule of thumb, not the law. The law says copyright always exists for 50 years after the copyright holder's death, except in the case of unpublished material in

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Therefore, unless we are debating style questions, all content and all claims should be referenced, and my edits only reflected that aim - to keep the content of the article reflecting what the references say. If you feel that the references misstate something, or leave out important bits, feel more

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The reason you get the "unsigned" message is because you are typing your name rather than using the signing mechanism of typing four tilde characters (~~~~) at the end of your messages. In the collection of buttons just above the edit window, there's one that looks like a signature which will insert

270:

I'm making some careful edits to the article and wanted to flag up that one or two of them are clearing up slight ambiguities. It could be that in doing so I misrepresent what was actually intended. When I'm done, it would be useful if you'd compare the changes I've made with the previous version of

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If you add an edit summary when you change an article, your intentions are clearer. You could for example have written an edit summary of "My obituary for Hotere which was published in the Otago Daily Times", and I would have at least realised that you were adding material you had written yourself.

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The first is that the physical evidence is inherently conservative and it may be reasonably supposed people would be here earlier than the oldest such evidence we have so far found. If early occupation was by small numbers or transitory we may never find any evidence of it yet the first landfall is

1866:

I'll have a look at it. Somebody else wrote the article although they aren't responsible for my additions. There is an ongoing research project on Lawson, of which I am a part and which has thrown up some new material. The article here is probably a bit out of date. But it may be possible to supply

1707:

I can easily deal with the infobox and probably find another photo for the lead one in the article (the one currently there could be used further down where you mention the overall effect of the two buildings together in the Octagon). I could probably find some of the other pictures suggested too -

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I've now looked through the article and made some modifications to your edits. Mainly I've been trying to break up long sentences, and remove repetitions of words. I hope you don't mind. I very much appreciate your additions of information. I'm aware I didn't include the fact the Municipal Chambers

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You are welcome to NZ architecture, I was just filling a gaping hole until someone better came along. So long as work is referenced, as it should be, then it matters not a jot who writes it - a professor of architecture at Università di Roma "La Sapienza" or Fred the Bin-man from London. Regarding

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Ummm. I'm not a native but let that pass. Have a look at the buildings: "extravaganza" is wrong for this one whose success depends as much on its restraint as its exuberance - unlike the Railway Station. Also, there is nothing particularly colonial or provincial about using a hammer beam roof for a

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3. You say "In New Zealand, copyright ends 50 years after the death of its author..." Again, this is not strictly true. In New Zealand copyright in something lasts for 50 years after the copyright owner's death - except in the case of something never published - in which case it lasts for 70 years.

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tag. If the author is not known, then copyright ends 50 years from the time the photo was first published. There are exceptions for government photos. There are also "fair use" arguments which can be made for photos covered by copyright, but these should not be needed for photos of someone who died

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A few things which caught my eye: Hardwicke actually died in Dunedin proper - at Glamis Home in Montpellier Street, not Broad Bay. I think his history of photography in New Zealand - the first book on this subject - is worth a mention. It's less typical but more significant than "Dunedin Then". The

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Re this particular article. I know nothing about the subject matter, but it seems to me there's some material in the article that's less about the Weller brothers than it is about, say, the development of Otago or New Zealand etc. Some ham-fisted editor will come along at some point and hack it out

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Dear Peter - the main problem is that you indented the paragraphs. Doing that renders text in long lines within a pale blue box. I've removed the indentations and it looks ar more like a "real" Wikiepedia article now. You're right, the instructions aren't easily navigable - it's one of the problems

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By the way, I see you found fault with one of my ODT quiz questions! It was the appointment of Busby by the Governor of NSW which confused me into thinking that NSW officially had control over New Zealand, which was referenced in the two history books I checked in (seems very odd that the Resident

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I begin to think you are starting to be a little pedantic and opinionated. The same goes for colonial, one could in certain innstances argue that provincial would be a better word; I understand you are a champion of NZ architecture, and I admire you for it, but don't start to let a little bias and

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I followed your instructions and succeeded in putting in some headings. Thank you. I also followed your instructions and sort of succeeded in putting in an image. The trouble is, I thought it would be a thumbnail with access to a larger version. Instead I've got the larger version in the middle of

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Thank you for your ready rush to my rescue. Gadfium acting with incredible speed had already helped over the heading. You can see his other sage advice above. (I'm assuming Gadfium is male for I know not what reason.) I read somewhere - I think in the labyrinth of Knowledge behind-the-scenes stuff

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To create subheadings, type the text you want and highlight it, just as you would with a word processor, then click the large letter "A" on the toolbar just above the edit window. Alternatively, type the markup directly by typing two equal signs on either side of the heading text (and with nothing

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as someone else made changes to the same section of the article but saved it just before you did. Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can do to retrieve the material now. I know the frustration of losing work like this; sometimes I make several small edits rather than waiting until I've made all the

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to say that settlement occurred about 1150 AD, but it is my understanding that initial settlement by Māori in New Zealand was about 1280. I realise that archaeologists have gone back and forth on this quite a bit, so perhaps I am not fully up to date on current thinking. My source is David Lowe's

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Ah, I see how you've qualified the quote. It may be McGill was thinking of Victorian Town Hallss still in use but it still seems to me a bit of an overstatement because of course the Victorian part, the Municipal Chambers, strictly speaking wasn't a town hall - it didn't have an auditorium. Never

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The Knowledge philosophy can be summed up thusly: "Experts are scum." For some reason people who spend 40 years learning everything they can about, say, the Peloponnesian War -- and indeed, advancing the body of human knowledge -- get all pissy when their contributions are edited away by Randy in

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You're right I'm a professional historian. I wrote the article on the Weller brothers in the New Zealand Dictionary of Biography. My Knowledge article on them isn't the same. It's an update based on discoveries since then. I've had some enquiries about them from people who are probably related or

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I'm not aware of any paper published recently supporting earlier dates. Nor am I aware of any new general consensus arrived at on this subject. The Lowe paper and its sources shows that the contention for a very early date based on the presence of rats is now untenable. It was always a bit of an

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Clearly you understand New Zealand copyright law much better than I do. I thought from your statement on Grutness' talk page "if one photographs a photograph or picture copyright in that belongs to the photographer too" that you might believe you could simply release such a photo into the public

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It seemed to me that to be suitable for inclusion in the Knowledge an article about people needed to be about notable people, whether they are socially elevated or good or bad characters being immaterial. The lives of notable people will always have a public as well as a private aspect, which it

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As regards it's being B class or any class, personally I don't mind. I have my own ideas about what makes a good encyclopaedia article. Knowledge is a multiple effort. If other people want to change it they can and they will. The structure and the emphases the article has now reflect my view of

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I appreciate your thoughts. There's quite a literature on Lawson and Seacliff and a few old quotes don't really do justice to the whole story. The New Zealand Encyclopaedia 1966 and the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography have summary accounts of his career and this matter. There's unpublished

1686:

Dear Peter - that would mean actually drawing a plan of the building (any published ones would probably cause problems with Knowledge's copyright rules). I don't have the necessary information to draw one up, though if you know of a source of that information it might be possible to make one.

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Dear Peter, in both this case and the one above, you need to note your ownership of the copyright on the pictures in the file description page of the images. Simply writing "mine" is not sufficient under permission as far as the legal side of Knowledge is concerned - you need to add a specific

952:

1. You say: "If you take a photo of a person, then you may need to have their permission to release it, especially if they are not a public figure and are being portrayed in an unflattering or private context." This is not a matter of copyright. People don't own copyright in their own external

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On the above article, you deleted or rephrased (and thus removed) a number of important passages which were taken straight from the references such as the (intended) use of the tower as an observation point or the fact that the last buildings WAS demolished because of further earth movement.

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Writing history it's often difficult to precisely state the significance of an event. It's where things are most likely to prove contentious. I've worked to try to achieve reliable, useful assessments based securely on the ascertainable facts, which is what I was attempting with the Wellers. I

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Great. Hope you're enjoying your introduction to the 'pedia. I found it hard getting my head round formatting issues when I started (quite recently) so I blatantly copied what others had done on pages I admired. Alternatively, you can follow the tips in some of the links in the Welcome message

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One minor but important point - if you include mention of something in an article that either has or should have a Knowledge article of its own, please put it in double square brackets ]. That will give a blue link to the article on that subject (if it exists) or a red link to indicate that an

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Regarding the other editor - I like short and not bland but neutral for the intro. I deeply dislike needy statements about how important such and such a thing is, thrown in your face at the beginning. I also feel it's not a good way to write for an encyclopaedia - there's a difference between

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On copyright law I do have some expertise. (I worked as a curator in a public art gallery and had to administer requests to reproduce under New Zealand copyright law.) I don't know much about Florida copyright law in particular but as a signatory to various international conventions US law is

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You also edited the second image's caption so that it was not linked anymore (you forgot to close the brackets), added a number of unsourced claims (such as the the tower being a central part of revivalist architecture, or your speculation that Lawson was made a scapegoat). You also deleted a

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I don't think I did press 'show preview'. It certainly took a long time to put in the stuff before I pressed the button so perhaps the system just ran out of time, steam, patience, whatever. Still, I take your point about doing it in little bits to be safe. I'll try again that way. By the way

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It is missing its copyright status because I forgot to add the information that I own the copyright because it comes from my image of the old photograph and I'm happy to give my copyright away. I tried to add that later but it didn't register. Uploading pictures is hopelessly complicated and

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The message came through fine. I understand about being hesitant to give any contact details - if you want to keep a low profile on Knowledge that's perfectly OK. I look forward to see your additions to articles and, as I said before, if you need any help then drop me a note on my talk page.

1812:

Most of the rest of New Zealand was settled later - in about 1250-1350 - but people keep on trying to use that date for us. This area was settled a bit earlier, as was the very far north and possibly the Ureweras. The Te Ara article merely repeats what is becoming a one-size-fits-all view.

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I just added a whole lot of references and bibliographic material to the first part of the Dunedin History article. But when I pressed the button it showed it in there, but with a message saying it hadn't been processed or something or other. Anyway. It isn't in and I can't find it again.

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One isn't allowed to have a point of view on Knowledge? What a laugh. One can't avoid having one if one says anything. If you say "2+2=4" you have a point of view, never mind that what you say is incontestable. Such are the confusions of subjectivism, a baleful but popular epistemology.

1929:. I realise it's a huge subject and would take a lot of work to get it to anything near a comprehensive state, but any small amounts you would feel willing to add to it would be a great help! Hope things are fine with you - I haven't seen you at many openings lately... Cheers, James 1239:

This is not a nice, warm, safe part of the world. That is part of the myth about New Zealand. Feel free to come here any time but don't be taken in by the stuff that's published about the place. Much of it is inaccurate. On the other hand it does have some interesting buildings.

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page, not my User page (click on the green "wha?" link in my signature) - that way I'm more likely to see them. Also, you can sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~, rather than writing out your name - that will provide an automatic link back to your page for any reply.

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which case it lasts for 70 years. It's just that it can be very difficult to establish who the copyright owner is, especially after an artist's death e.g. and so people just use the rule of thumb above and hope for the best. They are frequently in breach of copyright.

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Dear Peter - I see that Gadfium beat me to it with moving the article. If anything, he knows more about the procedures than I do, so I can't think of anything to add to what he's already said. If you need any help with any of it, either he or I would be glad to help.

2306:. If you have more recent papers giving an earlier date, please let me know as I would be more interested in them, and although I do not have access to the big databases of scientific papers, I can read the journals at the University of Auckland library.- 1228:

I understand about the significance of "provincialism" and First Church is not provincial in that sense. Nor is it "colonial" - part of what makes it interesting in this context. As for "extravaganza" - we don't need to go there. You know what I think.

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I wouldn't be surprised at all. I have the courage of my convictions and the scars to show it. With respect, intellectual honesty starts with saying clearly who you are and what you believe. Yes there's a price to pay. In modern parlance - get over it.

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You're right that it would be a big task. Some of it probably should be broken out of the Weller brothers article into its own article though... the question is, exactly what the subject of that new article should be. Perhaps moving some of it to the

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Boise who heard somewhere that sword-wielding skeletons were involved. And they get downright irate when asked politely to engage in discourse with Randy until the sword-skeleton theory can be incorporated into the article without passing judgment.

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As I said before the photos are a great help. I wonder if it would be possible also to include a little map? If you don't know the complex it can be a little confusing working out where the various elevations and adjoining streets and lanes are.

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appearances. If I take a picture of you I own the picture's copyright - or the person who commissioned me to do so does. However there are privacy laws under which I may be liable to prosecution for taking that photograph. That's another matter.

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I put the stuff in because somebody complained the article wasn't referenced. It takes time to do this and it's frustrating when the system doesn't work. Or doesn't seem to. Perhaps you can find what happened to that last edit and retrieve it.

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It makes use of a number of key points which I established - such as his descent from Dorothy Wadham, the New Zealand Catholic church's ideas about how to distinguish itself and the pre-modern history of concrete - without acknowledging them.

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By the way, thank you for your kind words about my review of Diana Smillie's exhibition. I regard it as high praise, as you are almost certainly far better able to assess and critique an art review than 99% of the people who read that column!

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I don't really want to engage with it because my primary interest is here. I take your point that means there are articles making contradictory claims about New Zealand but life is short. I leave it to others to correct the other articles.

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It's a contentious issue. Hamel 2001 discusses the whole question of New Zealand's first settlement and reviews the three main theories. Anderson 1983 cites a specific radio carbon date for our district. There's some other evidence too.

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before it's done, however, since it will have quite an impact on those two articles, but I think there is more than enough information for a separate article. You might be interested to note that the (currently very small) article on the

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Regarding this there is what may be called physical evidence, archaeological, botanical, zoological etc indicating the presence of people and which may be dated. That's what Lowe is looking at. But there are two other considerations.

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with Knowledge having been built up over time rather than being a planned work from the start. I've also added a few more links to the article and removed the title header (which isn't normall added to Knowledge articles). Have a look

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Having said that I recognise you are another, grumpy, opinionated old man and respect the effort you put in to communicating what makes these structures successful as works of art. Someone here should have done this before you.

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I have kept a few of your edits where they were useful, tagged a few others (such as on the tower as a central style element and the "Lawson as a scapegoat" section) as needing a reference, and restored the image and reference.

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Thanks for tidying up my attempts to add citations etc where someone had asked for them. I've added a couple more. Really most of the citations needed are given in the body of the article. But at some stage I'll add some more.

1463:

Somebody has removed the photo I put on of George O'Brien. As I explained above I own the copyright of the image. I would appreciate it if whoever removed the image now puts it back again to save me the tedium of doing it.

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Regarding the turrets on Boys High: none of them are chimneys. I've been and looked at all of them after you first floated the idea. I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong and would if there was any sign of it. There isn't.

194:? If so it's already on Knowledge, but it needs a few things like adding categories and links to it (I'll see what I can do to make it a more "Knowledge-like" article). By the way, please send any messages to my User 1544: 2255:

While 'programme' may still have use in the UK, it is not the preferred usage for computer programs. I am not challenging its use in other contexts, but it is out of place in this instance. This is supported by the

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That's a good start. I published the 1977 birthdate myself a while ago. However he recently told me he was actually born in 1976. As I mentioned, I do have some more information and will put some in at some stage.

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well know more about the matter than I do. That said (and I hope I don't come across as patronising *now*), it is of little relevance - as neither you or I are acceptable references for claims made in the article (

705:! I don't know who created it (it was an anonymous editor) but I've tidied it up a little. Technically you're not allowed to edit it very much, but if there's anything factually correct you can amend it a little ( 2603:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose 2384:

I haven't been able to find the survey I mentioned above. Without it, I can make no case for a developing consensus, so I withdraw this suggestion and accept your view that there are still differing bands of

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advertising and informing. The punch should be reserved for the end. Also, the intro shouldn't be a summary of the contents. That's another style of journalism which was tried and failed in my lifetime.

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I have never been able to upload a digital image from a computer onto anything. I might indeed need some help. I have read Knowledge's rules about using images and found them confused/and/or confusing.

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I've just been trying to update my article on William Tucker by inserting references. Perhaps the protocols have changed. This site has always been very user unfriendly - it seems to be getting worse.

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interested in people who are, but also from people interested in their roles in things like the development of New Zealand's fishing industry, the evolution of tax regimes affecting this country etc.

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That makes sense - mind you, one of the two books I used to check with (Gordon McLaughlin's "New Zealand book of events") isn't the most accurate in some respects. James (00:54, 21 August 2011 (UTC))

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the article (go to the article, click "history" and then click the circles next to my version and the previous one). If I've fouled up at all, I apologise and please do revert any incorrect changes.

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one's own opinions, you don't seem to have grasped the Knowledge philosophy, which is quite well summed up below. Like me, you may not agree with it, but it makes life easier here if you accept it.

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extravaganza, but am not that bothered. Regarding provincialism, that catalogue rather depends on the skill of execution and interpretaion rather than faithful reproduction - if you follow. Yes,

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domain, but you obviously understand the limits of that copyright. The "fair use" principles I mentioned are those of US law, and any New Zealand concepts of fair use do not apply to Knowledge.

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material (theses held at Canterbury University and the Hocken Collections, Dunedin) and a new biography is planned. If you want to reference the discussion I'd suggest trying those sources.

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article from an anonymous IP address prior to getting a user name? Whether you are or not, welcome. If you need anything of the working of Knowledge explained, feel free to contact me on my

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It can be fixed - as long as I can find a plan of the building somewhere which actually shows where the boundaries of the different sections of the building are. Do you have such a plan?

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at a later point. This allows the image to be used in other language editions of Knowledge (eg if the article on Mason is translated) or in other Wikimedia Foundation projects, such as

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write a life of Captain Scott concentrating on his upbringing, marriage etc. but it would be odd not to mention his role in Antarctic exploration and widely publicised death there.

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article would be a reasonable compromise for the time being, and using it for a history section in much the way that you have added a good history section to the Mosgiel article.

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As you haven't said who you are how am I to test your claim that you're younger than I am? No matter. I'm only pressing a point. I can tell you aren't quite so ancient as me.

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following

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Some more citations might be supplied but the comparisons are all to things already covered by the wikipedia so it seems redundant to merely copy them and reproduce them.

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Thank you for putting a new heading on the William Mason article. Also thank you for your kind words of advice. I may attempt to create subheadings following your advice.

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Yes, references are important. But in the end everyone has to stand by his own pronouncements, however acquired. They aren't automatically better for being second hand.

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Dear Peter - I notice you added a comment about Ben Webb on the disambiguation page for people with that name. I've just made a small start on an article about him at

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National Museum only bought his Burton brothers collection and Hardwicke's collection of Cameras, not all his collections. A great deal still remains at Broad Bay.

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I have the Gillies report which I think has such a plan. I'll look at it but don't know how to turn it into a jpg. I'll ask Meg. I think she may be able to do it.

2118: 1007:. If you prefer, you can upload directly to the commons, which requires getting an account on that project and following a slightly different upload procedure.- 1946:

I'll have a look. I've been busy with the revised edition of "Behold the Moon" to be launched at the OSM Friday 3rd of December at 5.30. Feel free to attend.

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so long ago. If you need help on how to upload a photo, or how to place it in an article, let me know. A general overview of Knowledge policy on images is at

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It would probably be wrong for me to comment on its balance and angle. In any case I don't really know exactly what sort of profile the writer is attempting.

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If you turned up on my doorstep I'd tell you to go and hire a room. I'm not that hospitable even to my blood relations. I'm too busy being a grumpy old man.

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I don't see any glaring factual errors. There are some things it says I would phrase slightly differently. I imagine it's drawing on my website as a source.

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Crown copyright is a different thing and the "fair use" principles are mostly nonsense based on wide misunderstandings of now non-existent copyright law.

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Thanks for that, Peter - I'm having minor knee surgery at the beginning of February, so may be on crutches for a few weeks. Nothing serious, thankfully.

796:? Most biographical articles have a picture. If you could upload one I would be happy to add it to the article to avoid you editing it yourself. Thanks! 763:

Just thought you should know that it was there! Thanks for the comments on the Hardwicke Knight article - I've amended it according to your suggestions.

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article is needed. I've added quite a few links to the information you've added to the Oamaru article, which should give you some idea of what I mean.

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Thank you for your careful advice about images. At a time when I'm feeling strong and have plenty of time at my disposal I may try to follow it.

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it for you - it's beside the symbol of a W with a red bar through it. Since you add your name, whether you use a signature or not is no big deal.

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Actually it wasn't "unsigned comment" as you can see. Furthermore when I did the edit it was saying I was signed in. This is all baffling.

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I agree articles shouldn't be written in period style. That's why it's mistaken to use 'program' instead of 'programme' when writing now.

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Seriously, to work out the value of opinions it helps to know whose they are. For that reason one should acknowledge one's expressions.

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As I said I don't know if there's been a shift to a general, later consensus but Lowe's article doesn't seem to me to change very much.

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until he acquired the sovereignty of any territory which didn't happen until 21 May 1840, well after the first signings of the Treaty.

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Don't be too put out by my comments - but a well-sourced article like this needs some extra care being taken when being edited. Cheers.

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page, which sets its usage for Knowledge. Furthermore, articles are not written in period style. 'programme' is archaic in this usage.

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to Knowledge! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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If you get stuck following these instructions, please let me know with as much detail as possible exactly what the sticking point was.

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Also, moving the Weller material to the 'Otakou' section would be a travesty for reasons traversed in my note on the name 'otakou'.

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Thank you for your clear explanations about how the differing opinions are arrived at. I have enjoyed this discussion tremendously.-

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that you are not well Grutness and will be indisposed for a little while. I'm sorry to hear that and hope you are soon on the mend.

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Any photo you upload to Knowledge which is determined by the experts as being suitably free may be moved to the image repository at

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In the UK the spelling is still usually 'programme'. In talking about the past, as these articles are, 'program' is anachronistic.

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for you and do a bad job... can I respectfully suggest you pre-empt this? Again, if I'm wrong, I'm always happy to stand corrected.

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Many thanks gentlemen. I'm all thumbs when it comes to typing on this too small keyboard, thumbs instead of thumbnails, clearly.

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else on the line). Looking at the markup for any existing article or talk page with sections may make this easier to understand.

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It felt a bit like reading an obituary. Of course, I'd just been looking at your note on Hardwicke. But it still feels strange.

2624: 1886: 1471: 2423:). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. 2121:). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. 1628:

I've now copyedited the rest of the article 9which looks impressive, by the way) - and also added a small section on "Norma".

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With respect, 'preferred usage for computer programs' is not a written language standard. (You should advise the Knowledge.)

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Hello Peter - good to see you back on Knowledge again - could I please ask you to have a look at a short article I wrote on

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Thank you for your kind remarks. I've read your revised version (I think) and it seems fine to me. Clearer, less ambiguous.

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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out

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I'm sorry if you have got the humph and I really meant what I said about appreciating the fact of your taking the trouble.

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As you are a native, I am allowing you pretty much free rein, but when you start changing extravaganza to "tour de force"

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It sounds as though you pressed the "Show preview" button, not the "Save page" button. It's also possible that you got an

1785:. If not I would like to put Dunedin back to 1250-1300 with the reference to Te Ara once again, so it is consistent with 2071:. You are receiving this notice because you were identified as one of three editors with the most edits to the article. 1893:

and can give you a hand if you strike technical trouble. Please leave a note on my talk page if you wish to reply here.

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when you changed that page, we shouldn't have New Zealand articles saying contradictory dates for the first settlement.

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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to

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Don't worry - someone else has managed to find the reference on the NZHPT site. It's not an easy site to steer around!

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Hello Peter - Thanks for editing Knowledge, but can I please ask you to be a bit more careful on some of your edits?

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The edit summary is an edit field between the main edit window and the "Save page" button when you edit an article.-

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There's merit in the suggestion. However I at least quail a bit at the thought of writing a short history of Otago.

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in multiple articles. While this would normally be correct to maintain style consistency within British articles,

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committed to the same principles as NZ copyright law. With respect, some of your observaions above are mistaken.

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I assume you're a professional historian. I was a keen but pretty mediocre historian at Uni. Hats off to you. --

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New Zealand would be better off if more people like you felt like persevering. Admittedly it's not a fun task.

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seemed to me should at least be indicated if not elaborated. But I will keep thinking about what you've said.

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I was trying to add something to the Ralph Hotere article - his obituary I wrote for the Otago Daily Times.

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Knowledge appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited

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again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on

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Could you direct me to a paper published in the last few years which supports earlier dates? Many thanks.

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these differing bands of opinion - some favouring c.900, others about 1150 and Lowe's about 1250-1300.

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If you think the date should be updated for all the articles, please go ahead and start a discussion at

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Despite this lazy plagiarism the result is good. It would be even better if it referenced its sources.

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Thank you for your response. I may have misinterpreted the extent to which consensus has been reached.

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if you could find a few more of the suggested citations it would help to improve the article further.

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the text. It looks a bit oversize to me. Any suggestions as to how to realise the original intention?

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Your first contribution to Knowledge was of such high quality, at first I assumed it must have been a

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New articles that are written appear within minutes of them being saved - do you mean the article on

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Polynesian settlement of New Zealand and the impacts of volcanism on early Maori society: an update

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will still work. The way you rename an article is by using the "move" tab at the top of the page.

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the oldest surviving pictures of the harbour and nearby coast, now in the Mitchell Library Sydney

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on board. After a visit to nearby Whareakeake (Murdering Beach) where Tucker had been living since

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Hello Peter, I see you take an interest in Dunedin and architecture. There's a brand new page on

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I took a photograph of the work in the 1980s. The jpeg uploaded was copied from a print of that.

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changes I want to in an article just to make sure that I get the first part of my work saved.-

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As I suggested when I saw you yesterday, I've separated out the history section from the main

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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!

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Thanks Grutness. I do have some information on him. I'll look at your article with interest.

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and I see he was an architect. Maybe you'd like to contribute. I saw your old post on the

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It's a very difficult site to steer around. The Trust's own personnel struggle with it.

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unless you wrote published books or articles about this, when it would be another matter

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I'm not aware of any recent changes. I agree that the interface is confusing, but see

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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these

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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these

2056: 2016: 1980: 1962: 1930: 1845: 1629: 1611: 1515: 1376: 1346: 1261: 1197: 1148: 1096: 1067: 1035: 860: 764: 710: 706: 684: 469: 450: 395: 362: 234: 200: 173: 149: 127: 71: 2467:

for an article. Grutness has since integrated some of the content into the article.-

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NowCommons: File:J.Louis Salmond, Waikouaiti Presbyterian Church, West Window.jpg

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is accepted as the standard when discussing computers, in the UK and elsewhere.

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than free to add data from other referenced sources accordingly. Happy editing.

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Congratulations - you're clearly going to be a fantastic asset to the project.

2670: 2657: 2632: 2577: 2487: 2473: 2450: 2396: 2342: 2312: 2269: 2242: 2201: 2166: 2148: 2080: 2027: 1991: 1973: 1941: 1906: 1861: 1800: 1759: 1640: 1622: 1598: 1583: 1564: 1384: 1354: 1336: 1269: 1253: 1205: 1182: 1156: 1120: 1107: 1078: 1046: 1013: 937: 871: 830: 824:. If this isn't what you wanted, reply to me here and I'll see what I can do.- 800: 775: 721: 695: 653: 640: 619: 589: 560: 531: 514: 480: 461: 373: 345: 311: 278: 245: 222: 211: 184: 160: 138: 1553:

Commons:File:J.Louis Salmond, Waikouaiti Presbyterian Church, West Window.jpg

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Dear Peter and Dweller - it may be worth creating a separate article such as

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Greetings, an article to which you've contributed has been added to the new

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That's very kind. I'll have a look at it. He was an interesting designer.

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It would probably be better to have a direct link. Can you achieve that?

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Thanks for that. I don't know that I can put in a direct link. Can you?

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could be appointed by someone not in officially charge of New Zealand).

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What does POV mean? And why do all the people here use noms-de-plume?

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Are you by any chance the person who has been adding information to the

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Don't worry about the plan if it's too difficult. It was just an idea.

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etc. unless you have an army of people willing to do the implied work.

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File:J.Louis Salmond, Waikouaiti Presbyterian Church, West Window.jpg

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Hi Peter, regarding the first settlement, I started a discussion at

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very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the

820:. There may be hope yet. In the meantime, I've made some changes on 740:

I just saw the other article. It produced... some curious feelings.

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the ''Sophia'' in the harbour in December 1817 with William Tucker

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For some reason it has been removed. Perhaps someone can fix this?

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File copyright problem with File:George O'Brien (painter) photo.jpg

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Great. I'll start passing on some new users needing advice to you!-

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I fixed it - you'd accidentally typed "thumbl" instead of "thumb".

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likely to predate the evidence we do have by at least a century.

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is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge

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Please indicate how the photograph or reproduction was obtained.

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for a few days, so it was probably that you used "Show preview".-

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the

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As I said before, many thanks for helping me with the heading.

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of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a

15: 1396: 1274: 2063:. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets 1925:

I see that Knowledge has a very poor and stubby article on

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Thanks for working on the article. I'll have a look at it.

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then you can release it under a suitable licence, such as

1844:. In particular, the article needs strengthening in its 2536: 2532: 2520: 2411:, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page 2109:, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page 1750:. Please feel free to help develop this new category. 1651:

mind. It's over to you to keep it or dispense with it.

1435: 1373: 1144: 230: 30:. Respectful comments of remembrance may be left below. 2221:

Hello, I noticed you recently changed the spelling of

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This is an overcomplicated way of doing the obvious.

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Thomas Shepherd, , MS A1966, Mitchell Library, State

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Dear Peter - I have just started a small article on

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I would like my last reply to Giano to be recorded.

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at University so am not doing much article writing.-

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Knowledge:New Zealand Collaboration of the Fortnight

2531:by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry, just 1836:, but needs some attention to ensure that it meets 357:is a candidate for group effort and improvement as 2591:You appear to be eligible to vote in the current 1828:I see that you have substantially contributed to 1776:The Te Ara section on this topic is online here: 2543:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page: 1460:wikipedia hasn't got its head around copyright. 2274:I don't think I saw your name, but never mind. 113:Knowledge:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board 792:Hi, please could you supply a photo to go on 8: 2691:Wikipedians who opt out of template messages 2403:Disambiguation link notification for March 6 896:I've moved the article for you. It's now at 142:(you know me by my real name - James Dignan) 2686:Wikipedians who opt out of message delivery 675:Could you have a look at an article for me? 608:reference (the Hawkes Bay newspaper one). 1690:By the way, I talked with another editor ( 756:Thank you for drawing it to my attention. 92:I hope you enjoy editing here and being a 2051:Featured article review for Francis Petre 1589:Hi Peter, there's another reply for you. 330:appreciate your remarks of commendation. 1574:Hi Peter, I've replied on my talk page. 1510:. There is a list of these templates at 709:says what you can and cannot do to it). 1570:Otago University Clocktower complex map 1407:File:George O'Brien (painter) photo.jpg 1392: 1366:My reply to yours has been edited out. 445:), leaving a summarised version on the 441:page and made it into its own article ( 218:click the links in the "wikify" box! -- 1918:Article you might be able to help with 1832:. The article has been nominated as a 2519:. I have automatically detected that 1732:I very much appreciate your efforts. 1470: 1445:. Thanks again for your cooperation. 818:MediaWiki interface to get a facelift 649:Responded to you on my page. Cheers. 7: 32:Learn more about this Wikipedian at 1711:James 22:59, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 701:You might also be surprised to see 104:, ask me on my talk page, or place 111:You may also be interested in the 14: 2643:So long, Peter - we'll miss you. 2617:review the candidates' statements 1500:copyright-specific template like 2510: 2101:Disambiguation link notification 2085:The Petre article is very good. 19: 2291:First settlement of New Zealand 1887:Nathaniel Young Armstrong Wales 2623:. For the Election committee, 2593:Arbitration Committee election 2584:ArbCom elections are now open! 2081:08:35, 14 September 2011 (UTC) 1942:01:08, 18 September 2010 (UTC) 1533:OK. Thanks Grutness. Will do. 1512:Knowledge:Image_copyright_tags 1472:File:O'Brien Ak Grafton Br.jpg 1443:media copyright questions page 1: 2633:13:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC) 2167:21:04, 31 December 2011 (UTC) 2149:10:32, 27 December 2011 (UTC) 2105:Hi. When you recently edited 1599:00:47, 14 November 2009 (UTC) 1584:07:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC) 62:The five pillars of Knowledge 2061:featured article review here 1992:04:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC) 1974:00:55, 24 October 2010 (UTC) 1760:04:19, 20 January 2010 (UTC) 1641:07:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 1623:06:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 1121:00:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC) 1108:00:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC) 1079:05:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC) 1047:23:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC) 1014:23:06, 21 January 2009 (UTC) 938:21:35, 21 January 2009 (UTC) 872:08:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC) 831:08:36, 10 January 2009 (UTC) 801:17:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC) 776:22:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC) 722:21:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC) 696:07:03, 26 October 2008 (UTC) 521:No one seems to have edited 82:How to write a great article 2619:and submit your choices on 2578:03:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC) 2202:05:14, 1 January 2012 (UTC) 2028:11:47, 19 August 2011 (UTC) 1927:Architecture of New Zealand 1565:08:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC) 654:05:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC) 641:08:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC) 620:06:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC) 53:Hello, Peter Entwisle, and 28:This Wikipedian is deceased 2707: 2671:17:32, 31 March 2018 (UTC) 2658:00:45, 21 March 2018 (UTC) 2625:MediaWiki message delivery 2397:01:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC) 2270:05:08, 10 April 2012 (UTC) 2243:03:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC) 2191:, you need to type ]. See 2183:To link to a page such as 1862:11:54, 17 April 2010 (UTC) 929:Knowledge:Image use policy 2488:07:31, 7 March 2013 (UTC) 2474:07:27, 7 March 2013 (UTC) 2451:11:18, 6 March 2013 (UTC) 2343:03:04, 31 July 2012 (UTC) 2313:21:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC) 2065:featured article criteria 1830:Robert Lawson (architect) 1801:08:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC) 1527:00:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC) 1487:10:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC) 1455:10:30, 12 July 2009 (UTC) 1138:Robert Lawson (architect) 898:William Mason (architect) 590:23:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 561:22:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 532:22:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 515:22:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC) 481:08:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC) 374:03:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC) 312:09:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC) 279:08:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC) 246:01:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC) 223:00:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC) 2187:, but have it appear as 1907:22:17, 8 July 2010 (UTC) 1405:Thank you for uploading 1332: 1249: 1178: 822:William Tucker (settler) 572:(Signed) Peter Entwisle 538:Hmmm. Is that Grutness? 462:06:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC) 212:14:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC) 192:William Tucker (settler) 185:08:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC) 161:00:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC) 139:12:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC) 2537:my operator's talk page 2297:Palmerston, New Zealand 1953:Question on new article 1891:William Mason talk page 1771:Talk:History of Dunedin 1385:14:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1355:13:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1337:12:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1270:12:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1254:09:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1206:09:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1183:08:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1157:21:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 596:Seacliff Lunatic Asylum 274:Once again, welcome. -- 233:at the changes I made. 1867:some more references. 1429:image description page 1402: 1401:File Copyright problem 1279: 1147:POV creep in. Please? 2597:Arbitration Committee 2195:for details of this.- 2107:Selwyn College, Otago 1605:Re: Dunedin Town Hall 1400: 1278: 902:William Mason (mayor) 781:Noted and thank you. 2527:may have broken the 2439:opt-out instructions 2217:Spelling Corrections 2137:opt-out instructions 1840:. The assessment is 1547:is now available on 1302:"The Knowledge FAQK" 44:Welcome to Knowledge 2601:arbitration process 2421:fix with Dab solver 2373:Perhaps I'm wrong. 2185:Knox College, Otago 2119:fix with Dab solver 406:04:15, 23 June 2006 102:Knowledge:Questions 2613:arbitration policy 2429:• Join us at the 2295:I see you changed 2127:• Join us at the 1403: 1280: 629: 523:History of Dunedin 443:History of Dunedin 429:History of Dunedin 67:How to edit a page 2655: 2434: 2132: 2055:I have nominated 2024: 1988: 1970: 1959:Consultancy House 1938: 1637: 1619: 1549:Wikimedia Commons 1523: 1104: 1075: 1043: 1001:Wikimedia Commons 868: 857:Ben Webb (artist) 772: 718: 692: 627: 563: 551:comment added by 477: 458: 403: 370: 242: 208: 181: 157: 143: 135: 41: 40: 2698: 2668: 2653: 2649: 2562: 2553: 2514: 2513: 2486: 2472: 2424: 2417:check to confirm 2395: 2341: 2311: 2199: 2164: 2122: 2115:check to confirm 2022: 1986: 1968: 1936: 1914:Peter Entwisle. 1903: 1898: 1858: 1852: 1783:Talk:New Zealand 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984: 942:Dear Gadfium, 893: 890: 877: 852: 849: 846: 836:Dear Gadfium, 834: 833: 805: 794:Peter Entwisle 789: 786: 779: 778: 749: 737:Good heavens. 725: 724: 676: 673: 659: 658: 657: 656: 644: 643: 632: 631: 597: 594: 593: 592: 579: 578: 566: 537: 535: 534: 518: 517: 490: 486: 484: 483: 434:Dear Peter - 431: 426: 413: 408: 407: 377: 376: 315: 314: 305: 301: 292: 283:Dear Dweller, 254: 249: 226: 225: 215: 214: 168: 165: 164: 163: 124:user talk page 98:sign your name 90: 89: 84: 79: 74: 69: 64: 45: 42: 39: 38: 34:Peter Entwisle 31: 26: 24: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2703: 2692: 2689: 2687: 2684: 2683: 2681: 2672: 2669: 2667: 2661: 2659: 2656: 2654: 2646: 2642: 2641: 2637: 2635: 2634: 2630: 2626: 2622: 2618: 2614: 2610: 2606: 2602: 2598: 2594: 2585: 2582: 2580: 2579: 2575: 2571: 2561: 2556: 2552: 2547: 2546: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2538: 2534: 2533:edit the page 2530: 2526: 2525:Otago Harbour 2522: 2518: 2505: 2503: 2500: 2497: 2494: 2489: 2485: 2479: 2478: 2475: 2471: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2459: 2456: 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2588: 2567: 2559: 2550: 2509: 2501: 2498: 2495: 2492: 2460: 2457: 2454: 2436: 2409:Ralph Hotere 2406: 2378: 2375: 2372: 2369: 2365: 2361: 2357: 2353: 2350: 2347: 2320: 2316: 2301: 2294: 2285: 2282: 2279: 2276: 2273: 2262:68.202.48.14 2253: 2250: 2246: 2235:68.202.48.14 2230: 2226: 2222: 2220: 2212: 2209: 2206: 2189:Knox College 2177: 2174: 2171: 2155: 2152: 2134: 2111:Knox College 2104: 2095: 2092: 2087: 2084: 2054: 2041: 2037: 2034: 2032:Dear James, 2031: 2020: 2013: 2010: 2008:Dear Peter, 2007: 1999: 1996: 1984: 1966: 1956: 1948: 1945: 1934: 1924: 1922:Dear Peter, 1921: 1913: 1910: 1894: 1884: 1876: 1872: 1869: 1865: 1834:good article 1827: 1819: 1815: 1811: 1807: 1804: 1791: 1780: 1775: 1768: 1745: 1734: 1731: 1727: 1724: 1720: 1717: 1715:Dear James, 1713: 1710: 1706: 1692:User: Avenue 1689: 1684: 1680: 1677: 1674: 1670: 1665: 1663:Dear James, 1661: 1657: 1653: 1648: 1646:Dear James, 1645: 1633: 1615: 1608: 1573: 1543: 1535: 1531: 1519: 1494: 1490: 1476: 1466: 1462: 1458: 1440: 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Thanks, 2139:. Thanks, 1557:Erwin85Bot 1479:Sfan00 IMG 346:Talk:Otago 106:{{helpme}} 94:Wikipedian 72:Help pages 2605:site bans 2521:your edit 2499:Regards, 2425:Read the 2376:Regards, 2283:Regards, 2258:programme 2227:programme 2175:Regards, 2123:Read the 1678:Regards, 1505:gfdl-self 1447:J Milburn 1436:this link 1411:copyright 1370:Oh well. 1323:Regards, 1059:Regards, 1026:Regards, 1005:Wikibooks 921:PD-old-50 843:Regards, 668:Regards, 651:Ingolfson 638:Ingolfson 617:Ingolfson 96:! Please 2645:Grutness 2568:Thanks, 2493:Thanks. 2385:opinion. 2210:Thanks. 2017:Grutness 1981:Grutness 1963:Grutness 1931:Grutness 1630:Grutness 1612:Grutness 1516:Grutness 1417:and the 1097:Grutness 1068:Grutness 1036:Grutness 874:(James) 861:Grutness 851:Ben Webb 809:Cheers, 765:Grutness 711:Grutness 685:Grutness 549:unsigned 470:Grutness 451:Grutness 396:Grutness 363:Grutness 235:Grutness 201:Grutness 174:Grutness 150:Grutness 128:Grutness 77:Tutorial 49:Welcome! 2484:gadfium 2470:gadfium 2443:DPL bot 2393:gadfium 2339:gadfium 2309:gadfium 2231:program 2223:program 2198:gadfium 2163:gadfium 2141:DPL bot 1897:Schwede 1793:XLerate 1591:XLerate 1576:XLerate 1427:to the 1415:license 1300:, from 1117:gadfium 1010:gadfium 934:gadfium 827:gadfium 586:gadfium 528:gadfium 511:gadfium 447:Dunedin 439:Dunedin 309:Dweller 289:Yours, 276:Dweller 262:copyvio 220:Dweller 120:Dunedin 55:welcome 2595:. 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