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was not "non-sequitur" but instead incredibly relevant to the article. Stella Gibson's sexual comfort (she states "man fucks woman, that's fine, but woman fucks man, that makes you uncomfortable"; "maleness is a sort of birth defect"; "I fuck you, I fuck
Spector"; "don't use the word 'innocent', what if a prostitute is killed next, she is no less innocent"; unbuttons her blouse on TV to provoke a serial killer, etc.) moves not only the A and B plots forward, but her relationship with her fellow cast members. It is just as relevant to the description as the fact she works for the police, and just as relevant to the plot. It's not grossly inappropriate in the slightest, and maybe if you think it is you should re-evaluate your sensitivity on the subject. Your original reason was "fair and well worded", but nonetheless wrong. Anyone can word an argument well, but if it's wrong it will be reverted.
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reasons that don't relate to ANEW's concerns much. Wouldn't the correct thing to do be to leave the ANEW thread open and note that while you TB'd me under ACDS for civility reasons in the middle of it, the case has not been examined and should be, by another admin who will review the merits of the report? This is how AE has handled things in the past, for example: party X raises a complaint against Y at ANI, Y complains to AE of statements in the ANI by X; ANI sanctions Y for the problems in the original report, while AE sanctions X for the behavior at AE that Y reported, regardless of the outcome at ANI. (I know it for a fact, because I've been party X in this exact situation; I appealed on the basis that the ANI result against Y proved I was in the right, and I lost.)
1023:"It never was" prurient. You're again exhibiting severe comprehension difficulties. I said "clarification of why it might actually be relevant and isn't just prurient material begging for deletion"; for at least the third time: This is not about whether there might be a legitimate reason to include something about the character's sexuality, it's about whether it's written in manner that avoids giving the impression is a prurient irrelevancy. How frequently an issue is raised about a specific sentence in WP has nothing to do with the issue's validity, it only tells you how many people are reading the page. These kinds of reasoning failures are why I said earlier that this would probably be a waste of time. Logic and you are mixing like oil and water.
500:, etc. These pages are all important, but take some work to absorb. It is neither encyclopedic nor even neutral writing to use not one but two gushing superlatives like "extremely" in the same sentence. Even "very" is kind of pushing it, but it at least doesn't read like blogspeak. Any time you use a word like "extremely" in a WP article and it's not in a direct, cited quotation, you are making a mistake. It really is a serious focus, tone, and approach problem to drop in commentary about the sexuality of an actress or her character without there being a very clear reason for it (clear to the reader, and comporting with
1362:(including subpages and talk pages thereof, but not including drafting/sandboxing), and b) participating in MOS-focused discussions (not inclusive of mutually agreed user-talk, or threads that incidentally touch on MoS, or noticeboard threads)? If not: Does the topic ban extend to any of the following, and if so, would you please explicitly limit the scope to permit the ones you don't think are intended to be within the scope? (color coded: green = I expect to be able to, red = I think the ban probably covers this, grey = no idea, but don't think the ban should cover it):
427:
message directed at myself. Thirdly, you used the word "very" but deleted "extremely", a small edit but why is the first better than the second? Finally, "this is not your blog"? I've been editing
Knowledge (XXG) for over a year and have contributed a great deal. I am aware this is not a blog and I do not like being condescended to in this manner. It's all well and good to sweep into a page you've never edited before and critisise the wording, but please do so respectfully. Maybe start a discussion? Thanks for your time. --
668:– in which other editors have run with the improvements I made and improved them further – resolves the issues I had with that part of the text, and preserves the "comfortable with her sexuality" stuff you want to preserve, with the clarification of why it might actually be relevant and isn't just prurient material begging for deletion. My, and now others', having improved it, despite your I-refuse-to-understand-and-will-just-complain-about-tone filibustering efforts, actually makes it not only more useful content but
574:"Ultimately, is it more important that the article be good, or that everyone else's edit summaries show you some kind of deference that you feel you're owed because of your massive year of tenure and your proprietary feelings toward that article?" That was a rude and unnecessary condescending attack, and I don't appreciate your sarcasm. My desire is for the article to be good, which is why I reverted your "hamfisted" and unnecessary PC edits that contradict everything the series is about. --
629:. Besides, not being impressed that you've been around for a year, nor by what you've absorbed in that time, is not even a criticism, much less an attack. How I feel about your presentation of your "credentials" as if they're some kind of rank or tenure is intrinsic to me; you have no say in it, and it's not an objective fact or a claim of one, it's just me not being impressed. I actually find it hilarious, given these post by you in response to someone else trying to "pull rank" with
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recently received an aggressive notice of this sort myself, that appears to violate the alert instructions that you must verify that such an alert is needed.) The ACDS talk page banners appear to have been created specifically to forestall that kind of thing. Your action would seem to invalidate their reason for existing. I would have to object to being a singled-out casualty in any efforts to get ArbCom to change its bureaucratic approach to ACDS, which I agree should be changed.
596:. The average reader has not, unlike you, memorized all kinds of dialogue from this show that could explain to them why the observation about the character's sexuality might be pertinent. If you think that the fact that people could in theory go watch 12 hours' worth of a TV show, and thereby maybe understand what you're trying to write about it, means you don't have to write about TV shows here in way that does not presume people have already watched them, then you need to read
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just reinserted the material you thought was important (and in a way that took account of the concern I'd raised). I was concerned by your seeming unwillingness to consider why a non-sequiturial comment about her character's sexuality, with no explanation for why we'd say something like that, is grossly inappropriate. If you felt that "the original reason gave ... was fair and well worded", there was no rationale for mass-reverting all of it. It comes across as
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878:""I just speak out when I feel I need to." So do others, and you're not in a position to vent at them about it while hiding behind the same "do as I please" attitude." I don't have a do as I please attitude, I merely value the importance of accurate content. You're welcome to speak out, but speaking out doesn't automatically make you right. Alas, speaking out does not automatically make anyone right, and as for this content issue, you are dead wrong.
419:
sexuality plays a pivotal role in the series in not only defining her character (see Reed Smith, Jim Burns) but defining her relationship with
Spector (see DS Anderson) and pushing foward corruption storyline (DS Olson)") you stated "Then say so, so there's a reason to not think this is Gillian Anderson fanwankery. Putting back the other copyedit, too. WP doesn't describe people as "extremely" anything, fictional or not. This is not your blog."
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mistaking commentary on edits with commentary on editors. I have no idea what your personal views on
Anderson or the character are (I can't read your mind eitehr), I only know what such a passage will look like to readers, especially women. The #1 complaint about Knowledge (XXG) over the last 5-8 years has been a "bro" editing culture that is somewhere between hostile and indifferent to female editors and readers, and
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1185:. The survey has two parts: the first part asks for your username, while the second part contains the survey questions. These two parts are stored separately, so your username will not be associated with your feedback. There are only nine questions and it should not take very long to complete. Once you complete the survey I will leave a handwritten note on your talk page as a token of my appreciation.
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865:"not being impressed that you've been around for a year, nor by what you've absorbed in that time, is not even a criticism, much less an attack." no, the manner in which you phrase your thoughts is when they become confrontational. You can't tell me what I should be offended by. Only I can do that, and I'm informing you that, in this instance, I was offended, and I felt your conduct unbecoming.
1493:
editwarring behavior is necessarily about behavior. It's possible that I slipped up in this regard, but I was trying hard to avoid doing so. Aside from being argumentative and loquacious, my behavior has actually greatly changed since 2012, and I don't think this has been taken into account, especially given the number of personal attacks and bad faith accusations I was subjected to myself.
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466:, i.e. "make this clear to the reader, who is not reading your mind". Edit summaries are about the content of the page being edited, and are not intended as a personal messaging system (if someone is using it that way, they usually include the username of whom they're addressing, and if they keep at it, they'll be asked to take it to the talk page, per
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perceived as sexist, there is something real to be concerned about there, and to edit to avoid. Ultimately, is it more important that the article be good, or that everyone else's edit summaries show you some kind of deference that you feel you're owed because of your massive year of tenure and your proprietary feelings toward taht article?
884:"derrogating a female editor as a "chick" and "honey", and otherwise being a creep." Chick and honey are basic, non-gender-specific forms of address that in this case offended an editor. I admitted I was in the wrong and resolved this issue with the editor in question. This is irrelevant to the content based issue presented here.
554:", well the same could be said for you describing other editors work as "fanwankery," to be honest. You stated I should "make this clear to the reader, who is not reading your mind", but the reader doesn't have to read my mind to understand the show. It's there in technicolor, 12 hours worth, in fact, on BBC, Netflix and RTE.
825:
has watched The
Muppets is aware that Kermit is a frog. You wouldn't have to watch the whole twelve hours to understand, a scene should suffice. If you haven't this much knowledge of the show, then, in my opinion, it's not your place to be editing the article or policing the content, because you don't know what's relevant.
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user has socked before, almost certainly means they'll just create another account and be even more recalcitrant. If the account is effectively "dead", there's no incentive not to just restart, while if the account is just a bit restricted, there's an incentive to get in better graces and keep the account going. Oh well.
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831:"for those who have not watched the show and may never watch it, but still need it adequately described," which is why Stella's sexuality is so pertinent to the article. Without this information, one will not understand the concept on which the series is based. You're starting to argue my point here, not your own.
792:
vent about me, remember? As I said before, the issues with the article have been resolved, so, no more dispute (us being mutually disagreeable isn't a dispute to resolve – there's no
Knowledge (XXG) matter behind it, it's just opinion and temperament, which should become moot simply by cessation of interaction).
1338:
I'm not going to whine about receiving a temporary topic ban as onerous, and I concede some of these points, but this action is questionable to me for multiple reasons, and raises some concerns about the future of the affected pages, and for dealing with any future disputes, as well as what I can and
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rules for the MOS topic area, and in light of the previous sanctions and warnings you received in that context (quote from a DS ruling in 2013: "SMcCandlish is prohibited from making bad faith assumptions about other participants; strongly advised to avoid commenting on contributor, particularly with
1104:
I'm fine. What's happened is my patience with tendentious editing, civil-PoV, and slow-editwarring patterns has finally reached a limit. No one who is doing problematic things thinks they are. One cannot self-assess whether one's behaviors are problematic, since it's others who perceive the problems.
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PS: I actually missed something in your earlier post, because you bury everything in length quotations. You referred to "my reversions" being a discredit to the cast and crew of the show. But it was you reverting; I was adding explanatory material for our readers. No edit of mine or yours affects the
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about being "PC", and that after I already explained that I don't do PC, and my concerns are based on reader utility, and published criticism of
Knowledge (XXG). The very fact that you make this a "PC" issue – usually a dead-giveaway of a "bro-ditor" made me look into your recent past a bit, and sure
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Finally, if I express a concern that sexuality-related comments about
Anderson are going to be taken as fanwanky, but you decide to interpret that as a personal insult about you, I'm not sure what to tell you other than: a) not my intent, and b) you own your own emotions. I'm not responsible for you
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My main issue arises with the confrontational attitude connoted in "then say so," as I had stated this to be a fact, and any fan of the series would know this to be true. "Gillian
Anderson fanwankery" is either poorly phrased or incredibly offensive, but either way I didn't like that it was used in a
1492:
Where have I commented on
Darkfrog24 as a contributor, rather than on the edits, the reasoning provided for them, the logic of the arguments presented, the observable editing pattern, and their own statements about their "beliefs" which they bring up, using that word, frequently? A noticeboard about
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Actually, no. I think it deserves a response. Firstly, I'm aware nobody can read my mind, and it's not about memorising dialogue, literally (as in not figuratively, without exaggeration), the entire series is grounded in Stella's sexuality. The entire series. It would be like saying not everyone who
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I could write a lengthy reply explaining all the reasons I believe you to be wrong, but I don't have the time nor the energy. I think the fact you have taken to character assassination, name-calling ("bro-ditor"), and looking through my post history is proof enough that you know your argument has no
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and related pages, and refrain from editing fiction-related articles until you have done so. It's rather disturbing that you have not figured out the basics of Knowledge (XXG) writing about fiction yet when about 95% of your edits are to TV-related articles. No one has to watch the show to know that
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I didn't "clumsily" do anything, I reverted everything you edited because your edits used the word "very" twice in the same paragraph which didn't read well, you moved a superlative to the opening sentence which again was a problem, and you removed information about a character's sexual comfort that
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focused on objectification of women. This is not a concern I brought here, its a concern that numerous reliable sources in the real world tell us about WP's public relations problems. I'm actually highly skeptical of most "political correction" ideas, so if even I'm concerned about WP being broadly
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Offending you wasn't my goal, getting the point across that WP has standards that article is not adhering to was the gist. WP is not written like other things, but like an encyclopedia. Let's turn this around, though: I wasn't pleased by the way you clumsily reverted everything I'd done instead of
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Can you show me "making bad faith assumptions" about DF23? I've repeatedly disavowed that I assume bad faith on that editor's part, only a prioritization issue over-focused pursuit of personal priorities against those arrived at by consensus, which doesn't require bad faith, just stubbornness. Just
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be said of me being critical of particular edits, which you'd know if you'd read those pages. And I already explained to you why there's a crucial difference between criticizing content and criticizing editors, but you seem not to notice anything you don't want to. You've stated that the content in
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and all 'at. Maybe someone will revert that change, but if they do we should probably have an RfC about this, and demonstrate that the consensus changed a long time ago. I have not (intentionally) allowed a mainspace template's TfD notice to be transcluded in so long I can't remember, and people
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I would like to work on the article in a sandbox in the interim. I've done an enormous amount of recent sourcing for it (only some of which I used in the MoS thread, and haven't used any of it for the article yet), and spent several hundred US dollars on acquiring sources with which to do so . The
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Do you not think that this one-sided restriction is very likely to embolden more disruptive behavior from others? It sends a clear message about how to game this system like a pro. This is like breaking up a schoolyard fight over a lunch box, and handing it to the one who stole it, in front of the
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again. I don't think you understand how irrational you are coming across right now. It's like I bumped into you on a street corner, we resolved the incident then, yet a day and half later you've shown up at my doorstep at midnight to re-start an argument about whether I bumped into you on a street
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Just noticed the user got indeffed. Kind of a sub-optimal result, but the overall pattern seems unconstructive enough that I guess it's a reasonable enough response. Would have rather seem a community close with the probable topic and interaction bans. An indef like this, especially given that the
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an editathon for cultural presence, which will be held during the month of September 2015. We are thrilled to invite you to Knowledge (XXG) APA, an editing event for improving and increasing the presence of cultural, historic, and artistic information on Knowledge (XXG) pertaining to Asian Pacific
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On looking back over that ANEW thread, it appears you explicitly declined to actually examine the evidence I presented to determine if the report had merit. This seems procedurally wrong to me. You closed the ANEW thread without doing anything ANEWy, and applied DS tangentially and severably, for
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about the intended scope of the ban being reasonable, is that the items in green are definitely permissible, whether you answer or not. The grey-area item E is something I can do in a text editor anyway, so prohibiting me from doing it on-wiki where I get the syntax highlighting and preview would
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if you want to, but it's pretty silly to come here and explicitly refuse to rebut anything (i.e., to come here and concede) and then declare the other party to be conceding or compromising. But whatever; if it gets you off my talk page and back to doing constructive things, fine. You came here to
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focused on objectification of women", quite the opposite, the series utilises sexuality in order to show women as powerful, influential people. Stella is comfortable with her sexuality and femininity because she is a feminist, and your reversions are frankly a discredit to the fantastic amount of
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grounds, since it represents your own personal analysis." See the quotes above the 12 hours of brooding sexuality as a plot device. Try watching the show before you edit the content describing it, it will help you see relevance. Also there were no "sexuality-related comments about Anderson", they
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s series page. The original reason you gave for deleting the detail on sexuality was fair and well worded "rm. sex-focused irrelevancy; rm. WP:PEACOCK wording; merged non sequitur into previous sentence", but after I reverted due to the fact that Gibson's sexuality plays a pivotal role ("Gibson's
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Did you Know that 15% of the biographies on Knowledge (XXG) are about women? Not impressed? WiR focuses on "content gender gap". If you'd like to help contribute articles on women and women's works, we warmly welcome you! WiR will be hosting one of this world virtual edit-a-thon. The 3-day event
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That solution sounds right. I'm not sure what the full history is. As far as I know, some incremental awards were added some while ago, to the lower-level awards only, as an incentive for new editors (mostly students). Then along came someone who added similar things to every single level (with
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Don't you think your interpretation of the DS rules encourages another type of gaming, in the form of pre-emptively delivering ARBATC (or whatever case) alerts to everyone who ever edits or posts at MOS (or whatever)? I would never be that POINTy, but I'm sure you can see what the concern is. (I
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the charge of name-calling, since it's self-evidently false. I said that a particular pattern was symptomatic of bro-ditor behavior. This was a signal for you to consider whether your behavior leads to such an impression and whether you ought to change the behavior pattern. Your recent block for
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numbers that conflict here and there), and this is what has been objected to, as unnecessary. If you go back to 2010 or earlier, all bets are off, because people were just randomly messing with this stuff constantly; it was very unstable. What we had last year or so is probably a better guide.
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Whatever the intent, this has the effect of "punish more who ever posted more or more loudly" decision (which, if so, plays directly into the hands of civil-PoV gaming, and to the tactic of refusing to address refutation and just re-re-re-stating the same premise over and over again, generating
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This present one-way remedy is fairly likely to result in something that will require it, and there are plenty of issues that could arise from elsewhere. I feel like I would have little choice but to never participate in any AN* discussions until the ban is over, since if MoS is involved in any
1500:? The whole point of the banners is to auto-alert all participants at the talk page in question. Surely you can apply to DF24 the same remedy I received, on that basis. If it's not clear, please find out. I'm not sure I'd even be allowed to ask ArbCom, since your topic-ban has an unclear scope.
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comes to mind. It's not my business whether you appreciate sarcasm or not (though you use it enough you clearly do, as long as its not used toward you), and it's not my job to make you feel good about incautious editing followed by histrionic responses to criticism of the edits and to blanket
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for trying out the WikiProject X pilot projects. I would like to get some anonymous feedback from you on your experience using the new WikiProject layout and tools. This way, we will know what we did right, and if we did something horribly wrong, we can try to fix it. This feedback won't be
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signal to do likewise, but you seem to not understand this, so I think everyone but you already knows how this arc of yours will eventually end. It's perfectly normal to look through recent editorial history to try to figure out what's going on with another editor, and that's not "character
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Why are you lecturing at me to edit the article constructively and to not remove the passage in question, when almost two days ago myself and others clarified the passage so that its relevance was clear, and there's even a talk page thread at the article open about it's relevance. I cite
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can't legitimately do in the interim. I'm not asking just to be a pain in the butt or to debate you, but because your reasoning behind the admonitions, and the decision, are unclear to me, and a remedy doesn't remedy anything, really, if the one it's applied to doesn't understand it.
951:. This has been raised on the article's talk page, as you requested yourself, and I've left it to the regular editors of that article to discuss it, since you make such a big point of me being a stranger to that article. So why are you back here to discuss it in two forums at once?
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Meh. It's lame, we (as a community) are doing it less and less, and if there was ever a consensus to bludgeon our readers with TfD notices, it was when most of our readers were also our editors. This is now one of the top-5 most used websites in the world by the general public.
828:"It's rather disturbing that you have not figured out the basics of Knowledge (XXG) writing about fiction yet when about 95% of your edits are to TV-related articles." It's rather disturbing that you feel the need to once again descend into barely veiled personal attacks.
875:"The very fact that you make this a "PC" issue – usually a dead-giveaway of a "bro-ditor"" you made it a PC issue when you brought up the phrase Political Correctness and applied it to this discussion, noting that it was un-PC to include key plot information. Excuse you.
881:"isn't just prurient material begging for deletion." It never was. It's funny, I think that in the three years since the show began production you are the only person to raise issue with having a strong, comfortable, female character described in such a way.
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reverting of attempts to improve the material. If you'd simply accept constructive criticism of the content as such, and focus on the article content, instead of trying to extract contrition from others for imagined slights (i.e, trying to turn it into
658:, and elsewhere, leading to your block), you'd have a much better and more constructive time here. Since you like to excessively quote in talk page discussions, I'll quote you back at yourself: "Respect is earned, not given." Also, from your posts at
845:, not the content of the external TV show." The series is grounded in Stella's sexuality. I don't know how many more times I can write that before you understand. The article needs to include this information. Honestly, are you not understanding this?
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B. Mentioning MoS, or quotation style, in other contexts? E.g. citing MoS in an edit summary or an RM or merge discussion, using diffs that happen to be from an MoS page, quoting MoS in a rationale, mentioning quotation marks fixes in edit summary,
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868:"How I feel about your presentation of your "credentials" as if they're some kind of rank" I only mentioned by "credentials" in response to your implication that I didn't understand what I was doing, I wasn't pulling rank, you're welcome to edit
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edit: "Those who presume to lecture others on grammar and on proofreading should follow their own advice. LOL". Let's not even begin to talk about the use of loaded lexis such as 'presume' to imply little or no knowledge, that's just outright
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American ("APA") experiences. The second Knowledge (XXG) editathon dedicated to APA content, this project will occur as physical events during September 2015... as well as remotely, with participants taking part from all throughout the world."
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grounds, since it represents your own personal analysis. If reliable sources tell us that her sexuality is central to the character and the show, then we should cite them saying so, in a section about critical analysis of the show. See also
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No, I don't excuse you. I didn't "make it a PC issue", I said I'm wary about anything that smacks of PC, yet clarifying the relevance of the mention in the char. descr. was a good idea so people don't mistake it for some kind of PC problem.
943:, after 5+ explanations? The only issues raised with the statement in question are a) that it had no explanatory context for the reader (now resolved, unless you've gone and reverted that too), and b) it wasn't necessarily clear why it was
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be said of me being critical of particular edits," when criticism descends into attack they very much can be. "there's a crucial difference between criticizing content and criticizing editors," may I refer you to your comment, left on
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basis. You're obviously now more concerned with my character than the content of Knowledge (XXG), so I presume you can no longer debate content and I will accept this as a concession on your part. I'm happy we could "compromise". --
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talking about whether Stella's sexuality might be relevant at all? How could you possibly still be talking about that when everyone but you has already moved beyond that point a day or two ago? Either way, your comment makes no
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appear to serve no purpose but to impede actual encyclopedia work, so I'd be tempted to invoke IAR in that case as well. Grey-area item J just might happen without me even noticing, and I would not want to be pilloried for it.
557:"It really is a serious focus, tone, and approach problem to drop in commentary about the sexuality of an actress or her character without there being a very clear reason for it (clear to the reader, and comporting with
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associated with your username, so please be completely honest. We are determined to improve the experience of Wikipedians, and your feedback helps us with that. (You are also welcome to leave non-anonymous feedback at
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It would be hard to approach DF24 in a conciliatory way if we were not able to discuss MOS and the quotation style dispute in detail. Ironically, I was actually working on a draft of that before you issued this TB.
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because I was found to have done something a long time ago doesn't mean I'm doing it here again. This appears to me to be a demonstrably false accusation. I would appreciate if that particular claim were redacted.
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Also, clearly other users are noticing you taking unnecessary issue with harmless content, as noted in the post below. Maybe you should take a break from editing for a while, a breather is never a bad thing.
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I don't know how many more times it can be explained to you that what you know/believe to be true about the show in your own head does not affect how we write about the show for readers unfamiliar with it.
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You know nothing about the dispute below, and it does not relate in any way to this discussion (it's about another editors 6-year-long campaign to change something, against consensus, at a guideline page).
2197:; but looking at the history, I am surprised to see that they have been there since 2010 or earlier. Was there some earlier version of these incremental awards that was abolished and re-invented by Alex?
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people who will ever come to that article. This is not a blog for fans of the show, it's an encyclopedia the primary purpose of which is to inform people about topics they don't yet know anything about.
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thread that gave offense and came across as disagreement when it was actually agreement, but I seem to be forbidden to do so by the overbreadth of the TB. Similarly, 2) I promised a citation to someone
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regard to WP:NPA and WP:CIV; and encouraged to keep his contributions to a reasonable length"). For the avoidance of doubt, under the "widely construed" rule, the edit-war in article space at
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One who will not listen to others when they raise objections about the problems one is causing, is doomed to keep causing problems until people's tolerance for the behavior pattern runs out.
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Are you okay? You've been reading a lot more problem into posts than is actually there for weeks, both with me and with Curly. Did something happen? Not offended if you delete this.
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then declared it a PC matter. Simple analogy: I say "This brown cake is not chocolate but someone might think it is"; you respond "I don't want that cake, because I hate chocolate".
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the then-extant writing about it was not adequately encyclopedic, i.e. for those who have not watched the show and may never watch it, but still need it adequately described, which is
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No problem. I stay out of the dramaboards as much as is feasible, but like to inject balance when I can. PS: Sorry for the late reply; not sure why I didn't notice your note before.
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over quotation styles, together with your pattern of long-winded, aggressive filibustering on the related talk page and noticeboard threads, including incivility and personal attacks
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Unless I'm missing something about policy, it doesn't require ACDS and its alerts anyway, in order to arrive at a narrow topic ban at a noticeboard, so ACDS would seem to be one of
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On that note, you have no business name-calling (to use your term) me "confrontational" when you're expending this much energy coming to my talk page to be confrontational. I cite
703:, but it seems to relate strongly to the refusal to understand that what you know internally about the characters and the show directs how the show should be written about here.
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anytime, just do it constructively. Don't sweep in and remove valuable content because you are offended by it. Especially a fleeting reference to a key plot point on sexuality.
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additional refutations until the culprit can claim it's the refuter, the one with the sources and facts, who is being the problem, rather than the fact-denier and OR-spinner).
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for what a low level of utility such an argument has. How long you've been editing here isn't relevant, other than one year is not generally enough to absorb everything. See
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is included in this sanction. I would have imposed a similar sanction on the other party, except that I can't find evidence the necessary "alerts" have been given to them.
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G. Being able to state that I'm not permitted to discussion MoS-related matters, if people ask me MoS-related things, or a discussion turns MoS-ish, and I have to exit it?
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Just for the record, I'm going to observe that I've asked repeatedly over two weeks for this TB to be clarified and narrowed, and have no received any response at all.
662:: "I just speak out when I feel I need to." So do others, and you're not in a position to vent at them about it while hiding behind the same "do as I please" attitude.
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reputation of the show's personnel; this is the second time you've confused on-wiki editing with off-wiki matters, in the same thread. I don't know what's behind such
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If I were "dead wrong" about the content issue, other editors would not have retained and improved the edit I made, but they did. So much for that. Oh wait! Are you
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player articles from Asia, some of which probably haven't had much attention in several years. I guess most of them are not Asian-American, though, aside from
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462:, and you'll have some idea why ham-fisted reverts lead to chiding reactions. But I wasn't chiding you as much as you seem to think. "Then say so" means
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Now, please stop making a fool of yourself on my talk page. This is a waste of both our time, and this is an argument you are clearly ill-equipped for.
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I've cited rationales for why the text needs to change in multiple ways, and you have not countered them, only complained about my perceived tone. See
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exists for a reason, and we should be in a position to be be fearful of offering any criticism without putting it falsely, annoyingly sugary language.
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fix, and happening to make that change in an MoS page as well as a zillion other pages, without it relating to MoS's content in any meaningful way.
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F. Being able to raise concerns or make comments at noticeboards relating to changes or behavior at MOS or the article, as a reading bystander?
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without my askance. That was very kind of you and I was relieved to see an editor actually being neutral and not taking sides. Best regards,
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How could DF24 need a personal alert when all MoS regulars (DF24 is in the top 10) are well aware of ARBATC, because of the ACDS banner atop
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where, indeed, those notes for the higher levels had been recently added. I have reverted, so they are gone. Sorry you've been troubled...
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1481:? Do you believe that I cannot prove any of the assertions in those two diffs (or any others for that matter) that you characterize as
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entire student body (if I may mock the seriousness of the underlying issue). The one-sidedness of it also appears to conflict with
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I need to make one of those now, and I gnome so much I'm liable to make such an edit without even noticing between now and November.
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834:"it's an encyclopedia the primary purpose of which is to inform people about topics they don't yet know anything about." See above.
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Unless you see any reason to keep them, I think those notes for levels above Yeoman should go, anyway, since they ain't true now.
1443:(and was thanked for ordering the source – i.e., the editor is waiting on it) and would like to provide it to them, off of WT:MOS.
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will focus on improving Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of Asian Pacific American women and their works (books, paintings, and so on).
1026:"Chick" is not a non-gender-specific term of address. That's probably the most irrational thing I've ever seen anyone say on WP.
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enough, you were very recently blocked for derrogating a female editor as a "chick" and "honey", and otherwise being a creep.).
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303:. Very decent of you and I appreciate that you took a solid and neutral look at the situation, then called it as you saw it.
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This sort of back-and-forth argument, over a dispute that was already moot before the discussion began, is a waste of time.
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in the article (which does not belong to you and which anyone may edit). So, no more dispute, it looks like. Good day.
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J. Performing a pure maintenance/cleanup tweak across various pages (e.g. bypassing a redirect, or some other minor
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Knowledge (XXG) appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited
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work put in by Cubitt, Anderson, and their team in order to ensure a strong female protagonist exists on TV today.
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dispute there, and I don't notice, I might be found in violation simply for having said something in the thread.
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and displaying at least as much "IDHT" as the behaviour of the other party you complained of, I am imposing a
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Not for the first time, I have been confused by a transclusion. That part of the page was transcluded from
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I. Talking in user talk about matters that coincidentally involve MoS but which are about something else.
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bitch about it all the time when others do it, especially to frequently used templates and inline ones.
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the article is "your work"; it is not. The instant you save it, it is Knowledge (XXG)'s, and it may be
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page, I see that each level, even the senior ones, has in the right-hand box a note on the lines of "
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publicly criticized us for it, and it's actually gotten worse, not better, since then (markedly so).
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by rekindling the argument, the clearer you make it that you have no idea what you are talking about.
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applies to articles, not essays. Two other examples are threads in which I've been participating at
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Hi, I'm just bobbing over to let you know I wasn't best pleased at the way you phrased your edit on
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E. Working on draft material relating to these topics, i.e. in a sandbox, draft, or incubator page?
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1899:- I don't recall having been reverted, but I've been called out on it on a few ocassions, like
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E.g., 1) I need to give EEng an apology and clarification regarding a poorly worded comment in
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or NPA violations? If I take the time to do this, will this help shorten the TB length?
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A case that's already come up is whether or not I can respond to what was just posted at
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You clearly don't understand enough of the points to know who is arguing whose, frankly.
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Probably mostly outside my editing range, but it jogs my memory to update articles like
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Incremental service awards (Ribbons)
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H. Working on other punctuation (including quotation marks) matters in other articles.
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The "and related discussions" clause is vague. Would you please narrow it apply to a)
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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these
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ribbons are also available, starting at 53,250 edits and 7 years 3 months of service.
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513:: You have absolutely zero more control over any article than any other editor. You
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No one is disputing whether Stella's sexuality is central to the show. How can you
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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assassination". You can presume whatever you like and fantasize an imaginary
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edit history, directed at a first time editor of that page who was enforcing
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Smithsonian APA Center & Women in Red virtual edit-a-thon on APA women
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1903:. Our readers must've been thrilled to know about the merge proposal of
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rationales to apply in this case, or is something wrong with that take?
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Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections:
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focused on objectification of women" refers to public perception of
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focused on objectification of women" refers to public perception of
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2623:. I'm notifying you because you participated in the CFD. Thanks,
174:"The Smithsonian APA Center invites you to attend the 2nd annual
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561:; frankly, an objection can be made to the sexuality comment on
504:; frankly, an objection can be made to the sexuality comment on
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problems with how articles and other material are written here
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problems with how articles and other material are written here
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect
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Hello; I recently closed a discussion for the above category
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D. Discussions that touch on style, but not in MoS's context?
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corner. I now see why "creepy" was used in your block notice.
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Hey. I just wanted to say thank you for your comments here
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Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you,
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2788:– an example image of personal budget planning software
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You still clearly have no actually read and understood
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Asian Pacific American Women World Virtual Edit-a-thon
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WP:Revert only when necessary#Unacceptable reversions
2619:. A deletion review of the decision has been opened
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Talk:Warminster Township, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
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Talk:Warminster Township, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
253:, which I already was updating a bit the other day.
1474:What parts of those two diffs you cited contravert
1288:and several other pages related to your fight with
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in the context of a one-liner character description
2811:Please be bold and help to improve this article!
2537:Please be bold and help to improve this article!
2358:Disambiguation link notification for September 18
2099:Please be bold and help to improve this article!
1506:WP:ACDS#Placing sanctions and page restrictions
1305:and related discussions on you for a period of
1273:Topic ban was administratively lifted at WP:AN
2826:Get involved with the TAFI project. You can:
2552:Get involved with the TAFI project. You can:
2114:Get involved with the TAFI project. You can:
1725:Get involved with the TAFI project. You can:
1133:Five minutes to help make WikiProjects better
8:
2450:I tend to stay out of Islam-related debates.
2914:redirect, you might want to participate in
1309:. This is done under the provisions of the
317:NP. I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing.
2910:. Since you had some involvement with the
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1085:This turned into something else elsewhere.
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2495:I had some input on it, though not a lot.
592:, with regard to a single thing I wrote.
166:Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center
2597:Category:Welsh-speaking sportspeople DRV
566:were about Gibson. See previous point. "
1392:Knowledge (XXG) talk:How to make dashes
1348:Questions and requested clarifications:
152:: Friday-Sunday, 4 to 6 September 2015
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
7:
2248:Knowledge (XXG):Service awards/Table
2918:if you have not already done so.
2857:) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •
2723:Talk:Jewish Israeli stone throwing
2689:Talk:Jewish Israeli stone throwing
2583:) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •
2145:) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •
1756:) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •
1381:C. Talking about MoS in user talk?
1174:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject X
647:"The pot calling the kettle black"
546:You also stated I came "across as
474:Graham's hierarchy of disagreement
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2871:Knowledge (XXG):ITSA listed at
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980:. The more you keep trying to
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299:Just wanted to thank you for
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2721:this request for comment on
2667:this request for comment on
2460:this request for comment on
2338:this request for comment on
2006:this request for comment on
1885:13:14, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
1800:this request for comment on
1647:this request for comment on
1508:, in being disproportionate.
1394:, with the observation that
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1071:Reading into things--reason?
1607:#Topic ban belatedly lifted
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2189:Incremental service award
1334:Future Perfect at Sunrise
623:, a basic principle here.
594:No one can read your mind
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2873:Redirects for discussion
2717:feedback request service
2663:feedback request service
2511:"Boy on white horse" by
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660:User talk:Glacialfrost
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2815:Previous selections:
2799:'s weekly selection:
2541:Previous selections:
2525:'s weekly selection:
2103:Previous selections:
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848:"WP:POINT and WP:OWN
782:related issues was a
559:core content policies
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42:of past discussions.
18:User talk:SMcCandlish
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2908:Knowledge (XXG):ITSA
2860:Opt-out instructions
2586:Opt-out instructions
2407:opt-out instructions
2148:Opt-out instructions
1759:Opt-out instructions
1404:Mediawiki:Common.css
1284:For edit-warring on
1239:Talk:Scanian dialect
1205:Talk:Scanian dialect
1179:Please complete the
1161:First, on behalf of
997:cognitive dissonance
701:cognitive dissonance
621:"mercilessly edited"
2828:Nominate an article
2792:Hello, SMcCandlish.
2554:Nominate an article
2518:Hello, SMcCandlish.
2116:Nominate an article
2080:Hello, SMcCandlish.
1727:Nominate an article
1699:Hello, SMcCandlish.
1539:article is so bad,
158:: Worldwide/virtual
2904:
2832:Review nominations
2817:Scottish mythology
2768:Not my cup of tea.
2687:Please comment on
2633:Please comment on
2558:Review nominations
2531:Scottish mythology
2424:Please comment on
2397:• Join us at the
2304:Please comment on
2120:Review nominations
1972:Please comment on
1766:Please comment on
1731:Review nominations
1613:Please comment on
1203:Please comment on
656:User talk:Musdan77
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1010:Does not compute
812:
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406:Extended content
402:
398:
389:
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364:
337:
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296:
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245:and other women
176:Knowledge (XXG)
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56:
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33:
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26:
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2745:(week 40, 2015)
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2625:Good Ol’factory
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2484:(week 39, 2015)
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2399:DPL WikiProject
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2090:
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2044:already expired
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2030:(week 38, 2015)
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1671:(week 37, 2015)
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1290:User:Darkfrog24
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1050:
941:just not get it
810:
721:
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590:WP:NOTGETTINGIT
478:WP:WORDSTOWATCH
407:
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112:You're invited!
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1723:Historic house
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588:You're simply
572:
555:
548:"point-making"
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465:
464:in the content
452:"point-making"
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106:September 2015
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2008:Talk:Idolatry
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1400:Help talk:CS1
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1278:retroactively
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1163:WikiProject X
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800:
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784:really strong
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217:
216:→ click here←
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19:
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2891:
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2794:
2791:
2783:
2761:
2741:This week's
2722:
2714:
2707:
2668:
2660:
2653:
2614:
2551:
2540:
2536:
2529:
2527:
2520:
2517:
2494:
2487:
2480:This week's
2461:
2453:
2443:
2404:
2389:Indo-Iranian
2382:
2375:
2339:
2331:
2324:
2276:
2272:No prollem!
2220:
2199:
2187:
2182:In the main
2181:
2113:
2102:
2098:
2091:
2089:
2082:
2079:
2072:
2026:This week's
2007:
1999:
1992:
1948:
1894:
1867:
1837:
1834:Just a chat.
1801:
1793:
1786:
1734:
1716:
1709:
1707:
1698:
1697:
1687:
1667:This week's
1648:
1640:
1633:
1577:
1572:
1549:
1542:The Guardian
1540:
1537:
1460:, and under
1306:
1298:
1283:
1238:
1230:
1223:
1187:
1180:
1178:
1167:
1166:
1160:
1157:
1150:
1109:
1088:
1036:
887:Good day, --
869:
858:
854:
816:
796:
707:
697:
676:
664:
624:
519:
494:WP:GENDERGAP
471:
415:
391:Unresolvable
390:
348:
321:
298:
295:Just a chat.
257:
243:Pan Xiaoting
221:
211:
194:Women in Red
189:
175:
161:
155:
149:
111:
78:
43:
37:
2837:Posted by:
2563:Posted by:
2547:High diving
2385:Iron people
2277:SMcCandlish
2221:SMcCandlish
2125:Posted by:
2109:Plain dress
2105:High diving
1949:SMcCandlish
1868:SMcCandlish
1736:Posted by:
1719:Plain dress
1711:High diving
1578:SMcCandlish
1550:SMcCandlish
1182:survey here
1110:SMcCandlish
1037:SMcCandlish
912:Unframboise
889:Unframboise
797:SMcCandlish
753:Unframboise
708:SMcCandlish
677:SMcCandlish
576:Unframboise
552:territorial
456:territorial
429:Unframboise
349:SMcCandlish
322:SMcCandlish
258:SMcCandlish
190:Facilitator
98:Archive 110
90:Archive 108
85:Archive 107
79:Archive 106
73:Archive 105
68:Archive 104
60:Archive 100
36:This is an
2462:Talk:Hijra
2426:Talk:Hijra
2409:. Thanks,
1649:Talk:India
1615:Talk:India
1396:WP:SUMMARY
1307:two months
1091:Darkfrog24
625:Criticism
515:do not get
482:WP:PEACOCK
468:WP:REVTALK
247:cue sports
2839:EuroCarGT
2565:EuroCarGT
2393:Read the
2127:EuroCarGT
1918:Color box
1820:Thank you
1738:EuroCarGT
1605:Moved to
1320:Fut.Perf.
1299:topic-ban
1257:Topic-ban
1168:thank you
989:WP:KETTLE
779:fine with
511:WP:VESTED
416:The Fall'
306:Montanabw
224:Rosiestep
2762:Declined
2621:DRV here
2617:CFD here
2607:Resolved
2444:Declined
2174:Resolved
1908:Colorbox
1830:Resolved
1688:Declined
1517:multiple
1487:WP:SPADE
1483:WP:CIVIL
1449:WP:GNOME
970:WP:POINT
870:The Fall
855:The Fall
652:WP:DRAMA
598:MOS:FICT
374:The Fall
291:Resolved
156:Location
2728:Legobot
2674:Legobot
2467:Legobot
2411:DPL bot
2345:Legobot
2013:Legobot
1807:Legobot
1654:Legobot
1244:Legobot
1158:Hello!
947:weight
498:WP:NPOV
490:WP:BIAS
486:WP:TONE
458:. See
162:Sponsor
39:archive
2849:using
2575:using
2252:JohnCD
2202:JohnCD
2137:using
1941:WP:CCC
1925:Alakzi
1859:Pixarh
1843:Pixarh
1748:using
1498:WT:MOS
1476:WP:NPA
1462:WP:AGF
1458:WP:IAR
1360:WP:MOS
1303:WP:MOS
1286:WP:MOS
1020:sense.
982:WP:WIN
978:WP:NPA
974:WP:OWN
956:WP:NPA
945:WP:DUE
850:cannot
839:unduly
789:WP:WIN
616:cannot
608:unduly
568:unduly
563:WP:NOR
523:unduly
506:WP:NOR
281:Thanks
2040:Stale
1913:with
1368:WP:AT
1301:from
1190:Harej
1081:Stale
1017:still
976:, or
938:still
862:rude.
196:(WiR)
150:Dates
16:<
2924:talk
2892:Done
2855:talk
2843:talk
2821:Head
2732:talk
2726:.
2715:The
2708:Done
2678:talk
2672:.
2661:The
2654:Done
2611:Done
2581:talk
2569:talk
2543:Head
2471:talk
2465:.
2454:The
2415:talk
2376:Done
2349:talk
2343:.
2332:The
2325:Done
2256:talk
2206:talk
2178:Done
2143:talk
2131:talk
2093:Head
2074:head
2017:talk
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