132:'right' things. But still, there is the need to do something. If the datas are 'debated' i wuold expect that other 'version' are called for. Instead, it appears that is better to delete all because someone has dubted about them. Now, i can understand if we talk about GW bush omosexualiy, but hell, we talk about the wing surface and speed of 60 years old jet-aircraft. That' a question of 'common sense'. What's the damage for wiki if someone posts let's say questionable datas (+ or less 10 kmh..) about F-86? It's not like Irak , JFK or Global warming. If this will became a principle question i rate Wikipedians a bit overlooking what they are doing. In other words, it's a fanatism issue. To me i don't care at all to F-86 specs and to me this jet could go to the Hell. But seeing this talebanism working in this issue ('if you cannot proof over any doubt this not post it') taken word-to word it's crazy, not rational action. The truth to me seems that simply someone thinks that i am not able to contribute in US aircrafts, that i 'pullute' with my data sources, but this is becaming ridicolous when a 'holy monster' like Joe is called 'unreliable'. Hell, there are zillions POV, false, spamming, trolling statements in wiki.en and all the point is to check F-86 datas? Just to understand. It's only apparent 'rational' and 'correct', in truth i rate that this is just a personal point against me.--
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by source i made there. Just tell me where in wiki.en (ok except Viggen page) there is so much debate about just some raw datas extrapolated by one magazine and confirmed by Joe
Baugher'US aircraft ency, available in internet (a bit outdate, but who cares? This is a '50s aircraft and Joe is a real gentleman to make so much stuff available, is almost good as Carl Gustav Hakasson, your fellow biplane-fan) and another site. Not enough for them. I doubt that even Citizendium have such debatement. Perhaps i have too rough manners but still, i find these discussions literally amusing, and negative for my more and more thinner motivations to take part in wiki. One user has even deleted these datas with a dead link saying 'must to be compared with this..' LOL. But it's so, and i am really pissed off.
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getting more and more frustrated by this manners. Even if i agree to your suggestion, this kind of things is so selective (but i repeat, when someone else comes and uses a not-existent link nobody cares..) that i call them a personal issue, nothing really good for wiki. If i have no right to post 700 bites of stuff without been whipped by roll-backs, believe me, it's not a fair tale. It's a bad thing and my humour suffers in accourding. TNX for the interest, however.--
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article. I posted there some datas just to complete the specifications, thinking i did OK for a time, but and since Bzuk not knew datas about F-86F-40 he argued that even this tiny additions should be 'questioned' (=deleted). I really have enough of these manners, look at the performance comparations
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As you and I surmised, when the information from a verifiable and authoritative source was located, it varied appreciably from other sources which in many cases, such as internet articles, had been inaccurate. I consider the
Baugher references to be very valuable as they are a compilation of various
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Thank you for your comments T96. I have actually observed that
Knowledge (XXG) is an online encyclopedia where article material is meant to be added from other published sources, but frequently is not. I guess I have as much access to "specific published material" about cockpit design of fighters as
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Hi. Just on the same matter. As an intial point I wish to ask a preliminary question: Do NATO definitions apply to
Swedish aeronautics, at least as a theorical referenceΒ ? In fact, following the NATO definitions, STOL airplanes have a 450 m limit in their performance and the Viggen had never reached
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I shall indeed refrain from rearranging an already existing article and I shall not ask other people to follow my "advice" about adding material. I think "protective" is putting it rather mildy. About ten times more effort seems to be expended on arguing on the Talk page than is put into adding new
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Now i undestand what you meant about to look at Viggen. BillCJ has once again roll-backed the Goebel stuff. It's vandalism. Now, for the x-time all the stuff about the last 20 years Viggen service are not couvered. Monsieurs here thinks that only US aircrafts deserves much KBs. I'll reverted BillCJ
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I do not have a book, but as you know i found two different websites, one is a good aviation site and Joe
Baugher ency is one of the most cited and appreciated in the web. What hell i must find more than this, talking of a ancient jet aircraft? It should be more than enough. No, it doesn't. So i am
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Then, excuse me, but i have a sea of problems with guys that roll-backs my edits because my bad english. For a time that i found an english free article and post it, do you see, i thinked to have done something outside any critics. Instead you called copyviol and it was not the case, and then after
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The STOL-like performance of the Viggen is an aspect of its design that is unusual. I think since there is some contention that it was not a "true" STOL, it may become a topic that has to be resolved first on the discussion page. On the other hand, if you or other editors have some reliable and
131:
I don't say that there is no way to discuss, i say that Bzuk objections are not congruents. In fact he says just that my sources and Web sites are 'unreliable', but what's the point to no post at all these specifications? Knowledge (XXG) is not the mind of God. We have not the grant to do only
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10:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC). BTW, I just looked at the discussion that you and another editor have engaged in on this topic. I think your discussion shows the best of
Knowledge (XXG)- a collaborative effort by two individuals who have interacted with knowledgeable yet courteous exchanges. I
127:
All aircrafts have many versions with many differences. It's not a problem to state this, and Joe
Baugher has written a page with this F-86 version properly to talk about her. Perhaps is the only one that is available on whole internet despite the importance of this sub-version.
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211:(1963). Now even with these figures, it appears that the most capable F-86 variant is the (tadah!) Canadair Sabre Mk 6 with a maximum speed of 710 mph at sea level. You know I couldn't resist making a statement about our Canadian technology superiority! FWIW
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one month SAAB XLDEROF-37 was no integrated in the text. So i acted. If you wanna rewrite it OK, but i don't find much worth to compress Goebel writing, so many are the details and so much we -aviation fans- are greedys of tecnical details.--
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article and it now corresponds to the published charts from the
Standard Aircraft Characteristics (S.A.C.) charts prepared by the U.S. Air Force and North American Aviation NA54-389 (revised 1 May 1957) provided in Wagner's landmark work,
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Bah, i do not seen the recent stuff about Saab 37 JAS XL ER and so on. I merely pasted the stuff about the recent career of mighty
Viggens and nothing else. And i don't see where you wrote this quite long and highly interesting history.
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Well i would talk to you the truth about this. I liked a lot the mighty cold-war fighter Viggen (reading avidly all available for years, i am not born after 1990 like much part of kids here), but this is no longer a cold war scenario.
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and i am ready to denounce him in problematic users if he will continue with this. If you want to act instead of me, are totally free to do it. But this farce must ends.--
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authoritative reference sources then it is a suitable topic to be introduced into the article, with an edit note that a further discussion is found on the talk page. FWIW
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that data. I think the most appropriate word should be "almost STOL", but there is the need to understand NATO theory applicability. I thank you for your opinion. --
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Because my mind is progressively sickened to read continous discussions, pointless ones, like this that take away entire days. As example you wrote:
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Please check this article. There appears to be a large "textdrop" of material from a magazine that can't be verified. Can you help?
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sources but in some instances, the original material may be suspect. Check out the specifications table for the F-86F-40-NA in the
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anyone else with Google, so I'll see what I can find out. I had assumed that you guys were more expert.
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but should also have an English-language reference. Either a webpage, or preferably a printed book
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1002:on 28 December 2021
984:on 30 December 2021
966:on 30 December 2021
936:on 25 December 2021
922:on 30 December 2021
920:delete and redirect
882:on 22 December 2021
868:on 26 December 2021
854:on 30 December 2021
828:on 26 December 2021
564:Volume I β Issue 1
445:please sign up here
340:for the coord team
334:click to talk to me
303:click to talk to me
271:click to talk to me
247:click to talk to me
2279:current coord team
2203:current coord team
2144:arbitration policy
1880:Thai Airways fleet
1588:Bendix Corporation
1542:List of cosmonauts
1495:Romanian Air Corps
1009:Article Statistics
896:on 4 December 2021
800:Closed Discussions
574:Project discussion
539:
450:current coord team
2180:
2073:. Also discussed
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2005:Turkish Air Force
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1948:Veronica Volkersz
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974:Avensa Flight 007
956:Akbarpur Airstrip
635:which determined
633:an RfC was closed
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358:WP:MILHIST/ASSESS
145:Stefanomencarelli
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672:Featured Article
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763:
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741:Good Article
740:
734:
733:article was
723:Amitchell125
718:Good Article
717:
711:
710:article was
695:Good Article
694:
688:
687:article was
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664:article was
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2156:voting page
1506:Jean Batten
764:New Members
626:let us know
555:Newsletter
2140:topic bans
2089:floats by)
1965:discussion
1953:discussion
1941:discussion
1929:discussion
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1354:Unassessed
996:discussion
978:discussion
960:discussion
930:discussion
916:discussion
890:discussion
876:discussion
862:discussion
848:discussion
822:discussion
818:Jim Lovell
662:Jim Lovell
647:Luft46.com
582:Assessment
508:. Thanks,
416:coord team
239:coord team
204:F-86 Sabre
195:F-86 Sabre
2227:vote here
2136:site bans
1995:aerobatic
1000:Withdrawn
844:HAL Tejas
2245:contribs
2235:Hawkeye7
2083:(Cumulus
2000:SoloTΓΌrk
1689:Deletion
1339:Assessed
1310:Template
1294:Redirect
1230:Disambig
1214:Category
906:Deletion
894:promoted
880:promoted
866:promoted
826:promoted
736:promoted
713:promoted
690:promoted
677:Hawkeye7
667:promoted
586:Outreach
2163:NoACEMM
1397:251,326
1278:Project
1027:Quality
758:Members
578:Members
322:" and "
153:Cockpit
2247:) via
2086:nimbus
2079:Nimbus
1612:ASDE-X
1375:73,340
1345:73,339
1262:Portal
1221:11,638
1189:18,754
1173:15,082
1157:11,878
787:Wp9097
653:after
366:WP:FAC
362:WP:GAN
186:Typ932
1369:Total
1317:2,489
1301:1,518
1253:2,713
1205:2,539
1166:Start
1141:4,573
1034:Total
982:moved
964:moved
746:Zawed
700:Zawed
55:EH101
2312:talk
2303:here
2287:talk
2274:here
2269:here
2253:talk
2239:talk
2231:here
2229:and
2211:talk
2198:here
2193:here
2174:talk
2126:The
2075:here
2056:talk
2042:ZLEA
2028:talk
1404:4.92
1402:Ξ© =
1394:Ο =
1246:File
1198:List
1182:Stub
998:) β
934:keep
729:The
706:The
683:The
660:The
549:The
514:talk
486:talk
458:talk
440:here
424:talk
411:here
406:here
390:talk
290:and
234:here
229:here
213:Bzuk
171:talk
88:F-86
44:Bzuk
39:Bzuk
25:Bzuk
2281:.
2205:.
2022:at
1269:629
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364:or
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2165:}}
2161:{{
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2058:)
2007:?
1898:β
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1600:β
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1530:β
1391:)
1331:66
1325:NA
1285:89
1118:GA
1102:56
1079:15
1072:FL
1049:FA
990:β
972:β
954:β
588:β’
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1388:?
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1361:1
1150:C
1134:B
1095:A
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