1263:(as always, multiple edit conflicts, no doubt I'm repeating what others above have just said) Tom, I understand how people hatting your discussion can feel insulting; evidently people are incapable of not responding incessantly to someone they disagree with, and simply must smack them down for the good of the project. You could have tried harder to avoid snapping back so often as well, I suppose. The net result was: (a) not intentional, (b) consensus seems to be against you that this particular instance is a significant problem (although you might have gained theoretical consensus that, if it had been caught ahead of time, something should have been switched with something else), and (c) ANI isn't the place to talk about changing how the main page is coordinated. May I suggest you take a few days to get some perspective, (this isn't an emergency, stuff like this happens once in a blue moon), and then open a non-accusatory, helpful, friendly thread at (I suppose)
939:. There must be a reasonable expectation that when an editor, in good faith, brings up an issue at any Administrator Noticeboard that he will be addressed by an admin, regardless of what that admin decides. My section was repeatedly hatted with titles which were clearly personal attacks and snarky in tone. Several times it as closed which made it impossible for me to make my case or express my concerns. At no time was this section closed or hatted by an admin, instead by a group of non-admin, some of whom elected to attack and make political statements on the validity of my concerns. To have multiple editors, whose justification is not policy, but "I don't like it" repeatedly close the section before an admin can comment on it and then, when I reopen the section, to call 3RR is clearly a case of gaming the system. All I wanted was my concern about the generation of content on the mainpage to be addressed.
2040:" in the rule actually means that even if what you're reverting isn't the same text (spanning across your reverts), they still count as a "revert" of another editor's actions. In the span of approximately four hours, you reverted Veriditas four times. In your first three reverts (#1, #2, #3), you added back in "politically leftist" after Veriditas removed it. In your last three reverts (#2, #3, #4), you removed the word "independent" from in front of Dahr Jamail after Veriditas inserted it. You're thinking that's only three reverts total, but under the rule, it's actually four reverts; on four separate occasions within a 24-hour period, you reversed the actions of another editor, "
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it's emotional for those personally invested and pertinent doctrinally for the military they are not, individually, encyclopedically notable events. If we cataloged every SOF member killed in training incidents by their unit's page all such articles would turn into memorial pages. If you would instead like to find sourcing on overall numbers or significant trends I could see that being something worth including in the article. Otherwise I would say non-combat deaths should remain in the very significant non-Knowledge (XXG) spehere of the internet.
1564:
suggest that since the 75th is under USASOC it can't be under any other component command, yet NO organization has officially acknowledged the existence of Delta Force. Using your logic, we must delete the entire delta force wiki page since it doesnt have official information validating it (completely illogical). It has already been brought to your attention that an Army FM and a journalist attached to JSOC forces references JSOC utilization of the 75th, yet you choose to ignore it. This is in direct contradiction to Wiki policies.
1004:
continue to insist that a discussion needs to be continued in the fashion you did, you appear to be nothing more than an uncivil and disruptive editor who cannot accept a consensus. The consensus is that nothing was wrong; someone even posted inside the closed discussion from one of the projects even saying himself that it was a mere coincidence, and you kept reopening the discussion. You deserve the block, and the discussion does not need to be had according to community consensus. That's how
Knowledge (XXG) works.
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stay. Many times when others perceive a problem with an article and, upon viewing the talk page and finding others who have raised similar concerns, are motivated to bring it up again, usually in a more concrete and constructive manner. With that said it's obviously in poor taste and as I doubt this individual will return and engage in constructive editing I have no problem with putting it into a drop down box and marking it as something that "potentially doesn't add to the discussion" if that would mollify you any.
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a part of (NAVSPECWARCOM and SOCOM) when only JSOC should be listed. DevGru does not report to or fall under teh operations command of SOCOM people, it falls under JSOC people. I know that can be a distinction lost on a lot of people but it matters. It would be like listing them as part to the
Department of Defense. Yes, they under the Department of Defense but no one at that level has any doctrinal, training or operational control over them, same as at SOCOM.
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question of me. This has been a very disturbing instance of group think and bullying to a degree that I have seldom seen on wikipedia in the six years I've been editing. My questions were yet unanswered and many people, who were wearing politics on their sleeves, refused to acknowedge that there was more than one issue to be discussed. This is not discourse, this is bullying.
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because it doesn't mention a soldier individual name... or does is matter? Then start to delete other articles that mention lost of life of military people that points out a particular individual(s)... you will be one busy person. I think it belongs. Don't like the fact a soldier's name is used take it out and just mention the accident. But, I request you please put it back.
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the
Canadian government ever issued, and his parents accepted, Canadian citizenship to Cruz then I'll be the first in line to put it in. Since they didn't, because he was given US citizenship upon birth, asserting that Cruz is a Canadian based on your understanding of Canadian law as it applies to Cruz is a violation of our policy on
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recommend that you tone down the jokes and the sarcasm, as not everyone will understand your comments, and they might well end up getting you blocked if you continue. This goes doubly so now that you are the subject of an ANI thread, as your behaviour will be being looked at closely by many admins. —
2202:
I agree with SPhilbrick here. I can see that you have the best interests of
Knowledge (XXG) at heart, but obviously a lot of people are finding your interaction style quite grating. Knowledge (XXG) is a collaborative project, and getting on with people is an important part of editing here. I strongly
2173:
I understand that MilesMoney can be infuriating. As evidence, look at my response on the article talk page, which won't get awards for most diplomatic response ever. That said, your edit summary "Actually now that you're up against 3RR you can eat it." is too much. The editor is new, and will pick up
1355:
Yes, I always think I'm right, too. I won't even go into detail on what the words "pending changes" mean; that became a mess with some very heated discussions I tried to cool down (and one or two myself I was caught up in the heat of). But even though I'm right, it's still fully disabled right now.
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Cyclone, That it was a non-issue was not the consensus, merely the majority and on a topic less than a few hours old. To hat the section with snarky titles and to close it before review by an admin is not acceptable. Even more so than when the admin responsible for POTD had just responded and asked a
1050:
I know why I blocked you, and I've no doubt you do too. There is clearly no point me discussing this with you further since you're clearly not willing to drop it. Regardless I see Floq has decided to unblock you, and I trust that they will be the one to reblock you should you decide to go back to the
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Yes, it's hard to keep up with theses sort of articles, a lot of people have their hands in them who mean well but don't really understand how the US military organizes their units. DevGru, for example, has the actual command it is part of (JSOC) and then all of the tiers of commands in which JSOC is
1982:
Based on what you write, "I would say non-combat deaths should remain in the very significant non-Knowledge (XXG) spehere of the internet." I request you keep up with your editing beliefs and standards and deletions. I ask you to stand by your editing belief and remove the graph of non-combat deaths
1862:
I am reverting the change about the supposed electric pen signing. I would appreciate it if you would discuss this issue on the article talk page before any more reversions are done. The addition "believed by some to be" is more accurate. No one in the White House has stated that it was signed by a
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I think you acted fairly poorly here, to be honest. And I imagine he might take a wee bit of offense at being called a vandal just now. This probably is a discussion better had at one of our talk pages; if you'd like some more feedback, let me know, if not I'll shut up now and keep the rest of it to
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for
Canadian citizenship since he was born there, just as is law in the United States. I'm unaware of any legal precedent for the Canadian (or US) government forcing its citizenship on the child of foreign nationals who have no desire to give their child Canadian citizenship. If you can demonstrate
1686:
I have been working long hours away from a computer (I work in construction) and am replying on a smart phone now. That's fine for short comments, but not for lengthy analysis requiring cut and paste to quote the article plus policies and guidelines. I marked up a paper copy of the article with a
1139:
I appreciate the assumption of good faith on my part by those willing to unblock my account. As stated above, it's a none issue for immediate attention in an hour and a half. I'll leave ANI, not because I think I'm wrong, but because it's not longer the appropriate venue. Instead I will investigate
1965:
There has to be an inherent and general notability about an event for us to catalog it here. SEALs dying in training accidents is not inherently notable. Off the top of my head I can name a half dozen SEALs who have died in parachute, dive and live fire training exercises in far fewer years. While
1949:
You state
Knowledge (XXG) is not a Memorial page... I agree, but please re-start with deleting: United States Forces casualties in the war in Afghanistan and see how far you get. Now, make an excuse on how all things here can stay and is NOT a form of a Memorial as you claim this on this article,
1563:
I didnt remove any sourcing from any material if you review my past few edits. In fact, I included MORE reliable sources from the SAME source. This is the second libelous statement you've made (one in reference to Naylor, once now to me). and, Just FYI, you're argument is completely illogical. You
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Your thread on ANI had lots of input, and the consensus outcome was that there was no need for admin intervention. Your unblock request doesn't actually contain a reason for an unblock, so I'll decline it, unless you promise you'll stay away from the issue and let that ANI thread rest in peace. By
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I'm not an admin., but I want to respond to your unblock request myself. You clearly violated 3RR by continually reopening a closed discussion. Yes, there are people on the page who are not admins. - me included - but when the community clearly has determined that there is nothing wrong, and you
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I feel that even though the manner in which the objection was raised is obviously disagreeable it's still has a potentially valid underlying point. Since no person was single out and attacked ad hominem and a specific complaint was raised about the article's content I'm inclined to let the comment
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An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule normally
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No, my block was for 3RR, not disruptive editing. That's two different criteria. My issue was NOT addressed, at no point prior to my being blocked did I get a response from an admin on the admin noticeboard. This was a topic about the generation of material on the front page and it was only a few
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Flo, My discussion of the issue began on the Main page's discussion page, along with the POTD discussion page. The response was tepid and I viewed it as something requirng immediate attention from someone with admin tools, hence ANI. It's too bad I never got a response from someone that fit that
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I'll leave the first part of that for elsewhere, but I don't mean to call Tom a vandal at all. It's just a thing when I see a situation that is a 3RR violation I want to help ensure that the situation is resolved (sometimes it is vandalism, not here specifically). I probably didn't need to get
1209:
Wow, that took a sudden shift, didn't it? But yes, community consensus was that nothing needed to be done; regardless of my opinion (frankly I didn't even look yet), the consensus was clear that there was no POV problem. The only bullying I saw was the only user who clearly thought there is a
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Plenty of admins, including ErrantX and MuZemike, were following that discussion. If they felt action was required, they would have acted. That a non-admin (or in this case, quite a few non-admins) closed the discussion is no excuse to edit-war it back open. Nonetheless, if you promise to stop
480:
I love how you completely ignore the comments I make and just take an opportunity to make useless comments. If you read the
Congressional Research Service citation on the page, it lists the Ranger Regiment and SOAR. Also, read JP 3-05 - it establishes the whole Joint Task Force concept. Out of
1285:
For the record, my two rehattings were merely due to 3RR already being violated and not because of my own opinion. Consider it vandalism control by that point. =) I hope the editor did not take offense by my supporting community consensus. As for the VP suggestion (I also had multiple edit
1019:(ec)Your block is not just about 3RR, its about the fact your inability to let this non-issue drop was disruptive. You are the only editor who sees a problem, and you are ignoring the clear consensus that nothing needed to be done. Your concern was addressed, just not in the way you wanted--
175:" exists between a source and a work that draws on it. Even if there is no verbatim duplication of the copyrighted original, infringement can be found if the new version follows so closely on the structure of the original that copying is clear. As the US Court of Appeals noted in discussing
1193:
Seriously, I know we got off on the wrong foot (and will probably still disagree on the matter), but I honestly wish this hadn't come to a block. Folks were trying to point out that this wasn't something for admins to fix. Hopefully you can get a resolution for this on the
Village Pump. —
1158:, which was – entirely coincidentally – scheduled to go up right around September 11, 2010. Unfortunate coincidences like that are actually pretty common. But regardless, your suggestion for better coordination is certainly a good one; hopefully that will gain some traction at the VP.
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I've found an (not necessarily reliable) source to cite for the assertion that jsoc is being credited as having involvement in the death of bin laden. Note the assertion is that this is being reported, not that this is known to be the case. Hope that satisfies your concern?
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I did want to explain why it was necessary to further rewrite that text, in case you were wondering. In addition to looking for directly copied text, the US government that governs
Knowledge (XXG) looks for "comprehensive non-literal similarity" in evaluating if
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problem was constantly trying to reopen the discussion. Admins. tend to follow the discussions even if they do not participate, and I think it's safe to say the only reason they didn't comment was because someone already made their comments for them.
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Alright, I'll tone it down a few notches. Besides, I've made why point and had my cheap laugh. There's going to be some future fussing about it but that's alright, it's just the usual badge waiving hall monitors and hurt feelings crowd. Thanks guys.
1190:, not an admin board. It's not a matter for admins to use their tools on, but something the community needs to discuss and try to achieve consensus on. I personally don't see a problem with the way things are, but that's a matter to discuss at VPP.
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electric pen. The source cited is not even the primary article it is a condensation of a post from a highly partisan blog. The reliability of the source is highly questionable. As it stands now I question whether it is relevant and POV pushing.
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
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A sudden shift in what? If there were admins following the discussion they either didn't weight in because they weren't sure what to do or they didn't consider my appeals for admin comment to be worth responding to. Neither is a good scenario.
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Both the DYK and the POTD are supportive of our military personnel. The POTD is an editorial cartoon expressing a point of view. It will still be expressing that point of view, no matter which day it's run. I don't understand your objections.
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Please don't restore block and warning templates to the talk pages of other users. The only templates that users are not allowed to blank are declined unblock requests. While I am bothered that he blanked my notice after blocking him,
1337:
You're not going to win every dispute. I've lost more disputes than I can count, and I've been called a lot worse things than "vandal". But generally I don't take it personally. And I do win a dispute occasionally. And obviously I am
2115:. While I have no evidence that Mr. Cruz has ever used a Canadian passport or otherwise exercised the rights of his Canadian Citizen, Ted Cruz is or has been a Canadian and therefore fits this category. Just like, for example,
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is clearly inappropriate for an article talk page and detrimental to a collaborative editing environment. But I see you feel otherwise, and I won't revert again, but I'll just kindly ask you to reconsider. Thanks, --
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Thanks for the words. I made my argument and "everyone" disagreed so I finally gave up. Some people were polite and those that weren't shutup when I called them on calling me basically a right-wing hack. Whatever...
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In my opinion, the article is not written in an NPOV fashion but consistently uses references, quotes and subtle phrasing a way that tends to cast McGinn in a negative light. I will comment in greater detail later.
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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
481:
curiosity, Delta wears USASOC patches, but they are JSOC? They deploy with the Ranger
Regiment and SOAR but neither are JSOC? I think if you set aside your personal bias, you'll find the numbers aren't adding up.
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attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Any appearance of gaming the system by reverting a fourth time just outside the 24-hour slot is likely to be treated as an edit-warring violation. See below for exemptions.
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involved, but after he reverted for a fourth time I couldn't not act and didn't want another editor caught in the 3RR rule. If Tom is indeed insulted or such by anything I said let me profoundly apologize.
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Aw, crap, I guess I unblocked at the same time 28bytes declined the unblock. Sorry, 28bytes. I unblocked contingent on not repening the ANI thread, so hopefully this isn't stepping on your toes too much.
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Don't worry about it, if it wasn't you it would have been one of the others goading me into the inevitable result of that editorial gangbang. I don't take it personally and I appreciate the olive branch.
1997:
It would appear you're not understanding my very clearly explained position. Since it's already clearly explained I'm not going to reiterate, I'll just suggest you read it again, in it's entirety.
167:. I've removed the problematic text from the second article. Another admin has completed the rewrite you had begun on the former. Appreciate your help keeping Knowledge (XXG) copyright clear. :)
2044:" Hence, Veriditas is at 3RR right now, and you're actually at 4RR. Do you see what I'm talking about now? And why it would be prudent to just withdraw the report while there is still time?
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I'm going to comment here because I hate to see a fellow editor blocked over something so trivial. If you still want to debate that DYK and POTD need more coordination, that'll be a matter for
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I did not actively participate in writing that article; I find the title itself misleading and non-neutral. The topics, in the past, have been covered in a more neutral manner elsewhere.
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Nothing, no sweat. People are slinging emails like mad, if your're not one then don't sweat it. It'l pan out or it won't. All the edits you've made are productive so, thanks.
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Hi, Could you please identify the reliable sources which provide estimates of total Taliban casualties? This would be very helpful to resolving the disagreement. Thanks,
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Ted Cruz was born in Alberta Canada. Anyone born on Canadian soil, other that the children of diplomats and their staff is automatically a Canadian Citizen under the
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with a fuller summary, because the first one was evidently unclear (sorry). I'll leave the final decision to you, in case you disagree with the reasoning regardless.
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the page and, since you are its sole author, FrescoBot has interpreted it as a request for deletion of the page and asked administrators to satisfy the requests per
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Many editors mistakenly think that what they're reverting has to be the same text, or at least one word in that text must be the same. The specific clarification "
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Unblock denied and approved by two different editors at the same time, and then agreement that you could be conditionally unblocked. Haven't seen that before. =)
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Bugs, I'm entirely disinterested in your opinion on the political context of that cartoon or broad assertions of motivation you make on the behalf of others.
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I have been blocked for violating the 3RR rule which, as a long established editor, I understand. My 3RR block stems from the re-opening and the unhatting of
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template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.
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Outing covers revealing personal information about a person they didn't advertise, not making an obvious connection between an anonymous blog and a
179:, et al. (970 F.2d 106, 1992): "A plaintiff succeeds under this doctrine when it shows that the pattern or sequence of the two works is similar."
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the way, the issue will soon have become moot, because the DYK will be exchanged in about 1.5 hours. Will you let the matter rest until then?
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Then your complaints don't make sense. The cartoon pushes a point of view, no matter what day it gets run. So what's special about today? ←
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After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:
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deleted pages. Please do not contact the bot operator for issues not related with bot's behaviour. To opt out of these bot messages, add
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592:" while executing the move. These things happen to the best of us. Not to worry; I've moved the article to the correctly spelled title.
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Nevertheless, I am no longer actively editing at Knowledge (XXG); we'll see how Citizendium pans out. I am willing to discuss by email.
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A broken link in a reference is not grounds for removal of a reference. References are required to have a working url. Thank you.
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If you do not want rollback, then contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some information on how to use rollback, you can view
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highlighter pen so when I am able to spend an hour or two at a computer, I will respond in detail. My concerns are grounded in
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would like to disallow the question. But anyway, how would you feel if members of your family were "collaterally" killed? --
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in Afghanistan at: United States Forces casualties in the war in Afghanistan. And please notify me when you do it. Thanks.
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This adds an additional layer of challenge to addressing copyright infringements placed on Knowledge (XXG) to be sure. :)
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I've put it on full for 18 hours. Solid sources should have emerged by that time. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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12:04, 28 July 2013 (UTC) (Addendum, I now see that I'm a bit late to the table, and others have already commented.)--
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Anyway, the material should be fine now and, again, I do appreciate your keeping an eye out for copyright issues. --
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Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the
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Hi there. You're edit-warring. Please stop. You're already past 3RR and any admin may block you for it. Thanks,
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Both the Delta Force and DevGroup articles list those units as being part of multiple commands, are they wrong?
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using process in DYK, POTD and the front page for figuring out a way to better coordinate the material on it.
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cues about acceptable behavior from those s/he interacts with, so can we both strive to do better?--
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policy is quite clear on speculating about editors' undeclared identity and affiliations. Thanks. --
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Thanks. I'll reply to you here instead of the talk page back and forth if that's alright with you.
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right. :) But being right, and winning a dispute, are not necessarily in sync. ←
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Thanks for the concur. Nice to know someone still thinks I'm sane. Regards, --
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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects_for_discussion#Genocide_of_Ottoman_Turks_and_Muslims
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conflicts), see what they think; AN/I is definitely not the venue for that.
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Please repair improperly formatted links rather than delete them. Thank you.
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I've expressed my concerns on the article's talk page and more briefly, at
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Tom, please stop claiming that Thugdog is the author of that blog. The
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in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material.
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You did an excellent job shepherding that process through. Well done.
130:. I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, just leave me a message on
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I will; I didn't see the section on the talk page prior to my edit.
394:. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your
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You've lost me. Email lists and all? What are you referring to?
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Is this your first DYK? One of my first DYKs was for the rap song
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edit-warring AND leave that AN/I thread alone, I'll unblock you.
1267:. Probably much more productive way to spend your time here. --
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Hey there TomPointTwo, thank you for your contributions. I am a
1524:, regarding this. AR 670-1 differs from the edit summary that
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cite a (weak) source for JSOC involvement in bin laden's death
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Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
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at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
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Hit TomPointTwo. In my opinion, the content I removed from
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I requested page protection for the Delta Force talk page.
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is suitable for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) according to
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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please
804:. If that proves unsuccessful you are encouraged to seek
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Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article
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Talk:Covert United States foreign regime change actions
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Talk:Covert United States foreign regime change actions
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If you didn't want the page deleted, please remove the
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Talk:Attack on the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi
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Message added 14:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC). You can
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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an
1117:No worries. I think we're all on the same page. :)
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is pretty clear on what can and can't be blanked. ~
2023:Saw your question on AN:EW; I'll try to clarify.
161:Covert United States foreign regime change actions
159:Thank you very much for catching the problems in
2038:whether involving the same or different material
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1583:I invite you to participate in a discussion at
1579:Your opinion is requested in an open discussion
1896:Hello, TomPointTwo. You have new messages at
483:(Message moved from User: to User talk: page.)
345:Talk:War crimes committed by the United States
812:. If you would like to be unblocked, you may
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796:. During a dispute, you should first try to
195:Deletion nomination of Talk:Benjamin R Mixon
828:below this notice, but you should read the
134:if you have any questions. Happy editing!
2059:Do what you need to, email lists and all.
207:Hi TomPointTwo, this is a message from an
1625:Knowledge (XXG)'s policies and guidelines
347:, and explain your reasoning. Thanks. --
338:War crimes committed by the United States
723:Alright, thanks for clearing that up.
165:Soviet Union – United States relations
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1839:Heh. He got caught by the wrong guy.
1356:Just how Knowledge (XXG) works. =)
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1520:Please join the conversation at the
1442:Speaking of dropping the stick... --
122:Rollback may be removed at any time.
673:and forum shopping for consensus.
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1634:The article will be discussed at
406:See a log of files removed today
384:not allowed in user or talk space
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1414:criteria. At least not in time.
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2144:which means Cruz automatically
115:Rollback can be used to revert
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1799:Hi, TomPointTwo, censors like
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2138:What you're referring to is
2019:EW at 2nd Battle of Fallujah
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1745:07:17, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
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253:somewhere on your talk page.
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1843:Watch the youtube video.
1587:. Thank you, in advance,
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1755:Total Taliban casualties
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