152:ΠΡΡΠ»Π΅Π΄ΡΠ΅ΠΌΡΠ΅ Π΄Π°Π½Π½ΡΠ΅, ΡΠ°ΠΊΠΈΠΌ ΠΎΠ±ΡΠ°Π·ΠΎΠΌ, Π² ΡΠ΅Π»ΠΎΠΌ ΡΡΠ΄Π΅ Π΄Π΅ΡΠ°Π»Π΅ΠΉ ΠΈ ΠΏΠΎΠ΄ΡΠΎΠ±Π½ΠΎΡΡΠ΅ΠΉ ΡΠ²Π½ΠΎ Π½Π΅ ΡΡ
ΠΎΠ΄ΡΡΡΡ ΠΌΠ΅ΠΆΠ΄Ρ ΡΠΎΠ±ΠΎΠΉ. ΠΠ΄Π½Π°ΠΊΠΎ ΠΈΡ
ΠΊΡΠΈΡΠΈΡΠ΅ΡΠΊΠΎΠ΅ ΡΠΎΠΏΠΎΡΡΠ°Π²Π»Π΅Π½ΠΈΠ΅ ΠΏΠΎΠ·Π²ΠΎΠ»ΡΠ΅Ρ Π²ΡΡΠ²ΠΈΡΡ Π½Π°ΠΈΠ±ΠΎΠ»Π΅Π΅ ΡΠ°Π½Π½ΠΈΠ΅ Π·Π²Π΅Π½ΡΡ ΡΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΡΠ»ΠΎΠ²Π½ΠΎΠΉ ΡΠ°ΠΌΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠΈ ΡΠ΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΈΠ΄ΠΎΠ². Π Β«ΠΠ°Π»ΠΈΠΊ-Π½Π°ΠΌΠ΅Β», ΠΊΠ°ΠΊ ΠΌΡ Π²ΠΈΠ΄ΠΈΠΌ, ΠΏΠΎΠ»Π½ΠΎΡΡΡΡ ΠΎΡΡΡΡΡΡΠ²ΡΡΡ ΡΠ²Π΅Π΄Π΅Π½ΠΈΡ ΠΎ ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠΈ, ΡΠ²Π»ΡΠ²ΡΠ΅ΠΌΡΡ ΠΏΡΠΎΡΡΡΠΌ ΠΌΠ°ΡΡΠ΅ΡΠΎΠΌ ΠΈΠ·Π³ΠΎΡΠΎΠ²Π»Π΅Π½ΠΈΡ ΠΊΠΈΠ±ΠΈΡΠΎΠΊ. Π ΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΡΠ»ΠΎΠ²Π½Π°Ρ ΡΡ
Π΅ΠΌΠ° ΡΠ°ΠΌΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠΈ ΡΠ΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΈΠ΄ΠΎΠ² Π² ΡΡΠΎΠΉ ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠ½ΠΈΠΊΠ΅ Π½Π°ΡΠΈΠ½Π°Π΅ΡΡΡ Ρ Π‘Π°ΡΡΡΠ³Π°-Π’ΡΠ³Π°Π³Π°, ΠΊΠΎΡΠΎΡΡΠΉ ΠΈΠ·ΠΎΠ±ΡΠ°ΠΆΠ°Π΅ΡΡΡ Π·Π½Π°ΡΠ½ΡΠΌ Π²Π΅Π»ΡΠΌΠΎΠΆΠ΅ΠΉ, ΡΠ°ΡΡΠΊΠΈΠΌ ΡΠΎΠ²Π΅ΡΠ½ΠΈΠΊΠΎΠΌ, ΠΌΠΎΠ³ΡΡΠ΅ΡΡΠ²Π΅Π½Π½ΡΠΌ Π²ΠΎΠ΅Π½Π°ΡΠ°Π»ΡΠ½ΠΈΠΊΠΎΠΌ (529, Ρ. 41 ΠΈ ΡΠ»Π΅Π΄.)β¦ Π‘ΡΠ°Π²Π½ΠΈΡΠ΅Π»ΡΠ½ΠΎ-ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠΈΡΠ΅ΡΠΊΠΈΠΉ ΡΠΈΠ½ΡΠ΅Π·, ΡΠ°ΠΊΠΈΠΌ ΠΎΠ±ΡΠ°Π·ΠΎΠΌ, Π΄Π°Π΅Ρ Π²ΠΎΠ·ΠΌΠΎΠΆΠ½ΠΎΡΡΡ Π·Π°ΠΊΠ»ΡΡΠΈΡΡ, ΡΡΠΎ Π‘Π°ΡΡΡΠ³-Π’ΡΠ³Π°Π³ Π½Π΅ Π±ΡΠ» ΠΎΡΠ½ΠΎΠ²Π°ΡΠ΅Π»Π΅ΠΌ Π΄ΠΈΠ½Π°ΡΡΠΈΠΈ ΡΠ΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΈΠ΄ΠΎΠ². Π Π³Π΅Π½Π΅Π°Π»ΠΎΠ³ΠΈΡΠ΅ΡΠΊΠΈΠΌ ΡΠΏΠΈΡΠΊΠ΅ ΡΡΠΎΠΉ ΡΠ°ΠΌΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠΈ Π΄ΠΎ Π‘Π°ΡΡΡΠ³Π° Π·Π½Π°ΡΠ°ΡΡΡ ΠΈΠΌΠ΅Π½Π° ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠΈ ΠΈ Π’ΡΠ³ΡΡΡΠΌΡΡΠ°, Π½Π΅ ΠΈΠΌΠ΅Π²ΡΠΈΡ
Π·Π½Π°ΡΠ½ΠΎΠ³ΠΎ ΠΏΡΠΎΠΈΡΡ
ΠΎΠΆΠ΄Π΅Π½ΠΈΡ.Π ΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΠ½Π°ΡΠ°Π»ΡΠ½ΠΈΠΊΠΎΠΌ ΡΠ°ΠΌΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠΈ ΡΠ΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΈΠ΄ΠΎΠ², ΠΊΠ°ΠΊ Π²ΠΈΠ΄Π½ΠΎ ΠΈΠ· ΡΡΡΠ΄Π° ΠΠ°Ρ
ΠΈΡ Π°Π΄-ΠΠΈΠ½Π° ΠΠΈΡΠ°ΠΏΡΡΠΈ, Π±ΡΠ» ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠ°. ΠΠ° ΡΡΠΎ ΡΠΊΠ°Π·ΡΠ²Π°Π΅Ρ ΡΠ°ΠΊΠΆΠ΅ Π²Π΅ΡΡΠΈΠΈ Β«ΠΠ³ΡΠ·-Π½Π°ΠΌΠ΅Β», ΠΈ ΡΡΡΠΊΠΌΠ΅Π½ΡΠΊΠΈΠ΅ ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠΈΡΠ΅ΡΠΊΠΈΠ΅ ΠΏΡΠ΅Π΄Π°Π½ΠΈΡ. Β«Π‘ΠΎΠ³Π»Π°ΡΠ½ΠΎ ΡΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΡΠ»ΠΎΠ²Π½ΠΎΠΉ ΡΡΡΠΊΠΌΠ΅Π½Β», Π² ΠΎΠ³ΡΡΠΊΠΎΠΌ ΠΈΠ»Π΅ ΠΆΠΈΠ» ΡΠ΅Π»ΠΎΠ²Π΅ΠΊ ΠΏΠΎ ΠΈΠΌΠ΅Π½ΠΈ ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠ°. Π‘ΡΠ½ΠΎΠΌ ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠΈ Π±ΡΠ» Π’ΡΠ³ΡΡΡΠΌΡΡ, ΡΠ²Π»ΡΠΉΡΠΈΠΉΡΡ ΠΌΠ°ΡΡΠ΅ΡΠΎΠΌ ΠΏΠΎ ΠΈΠ·Π³ΠΎΡΠΎΠ²Π»Π΅Π½ΠΈΡ ΡΡΡβ¦
281:
are two different people with similar names. The same with Alp-Arslan. What on earth are you talking about? Besides, Peacock's opposing view regarding
Agadzhanov's conclusion could've been placed right after that particular sentence in the page as a contradicting opinion. There's nothing wrong with that. Also, you asking me if I recognize "The Genealogy of Turkmens" being the primary source is off the subject since I didn't cite it. I cited Moldabaev and Agadzhanov, with the latter presenting his comprehensive conclusion on the origin of early Seljuqids after making a thorough research of the primary sources at hand. He didn't use only Nishapoori as you have claimed through Peacock recently, but Rashid al-Din and Lari as well (see above), and both mention Kerekuchi-Khwaja. Besides, your claim of Soviet sources being inaccessible and my "hope that none can verify them" is irrelevant as well, these works can be retrieved through sites of Russian-language-academia with ease and Agadzhanov's book is even present in
112:"Π‘Π΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊ ΠΈΠ±Π½ Π’ΡΠ³Π°Π³ β ΠΏΠΎΠ²Π΅ΡΡΠ²ΡΠ΅Ρ ΠΡΡΠ»ΠΈΡ
Π°Π΄-ΠΠΈΠ½, - (ΠΏΡΠΎΠΈΡΡ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΈΡ) ΠΈΠ· ΠΏΠΎΡΠΎΠΌΡΡΠ²Π° Π’ΡΠ³ΡΡΡΠΌΡΡΠ°, ΡΡΠ½Π° ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠΈ, ΠΊΠΎΡΠΎΡΡΠΉ Π±ΡΠ» ΠΌΠ°ΡΡΠ΅ΡΠΎΠΌ ΠΏΠΎ ΠΈΠ·Π³ΠΎΡΠΎΠ²Π»Π΅Π½ΠΈΡ ΠΊΠΈΠ±ΠΈΡΠΎΠΊ Ρ ΡΠ°ΡΡ Π’ΠΎΠ³ΡΡΠ»Π°, ΡΠΏΠΎΠΌΡΠ½ΡΡΠΎΠ³ΠΎ Π² ΡΠ°ΡΡΠΊΠ°Π·Π΅ ΠΎ ΡΠ°ΠΌΠ°Π½ΠΈΠ΄Π°Ρ
Β» (289, Π». 233; 290, Π». 131).... ΠΡΡΠΎΡΠΈΡ ΡΠ΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΈΠ΄ΠΎΠ², ΠΏΠΎ ΠΡΡΠ»ΠΈΡ
Π°Π΄-ΠΠΈΠ½Ρ, ΡΠ°ΠΊΠΆΠ΅ Π½Π°ΡΠΈΠ½Π°Π΅ΡΡΡ Ρ ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠΈ, ΠΈ Π΄ΠΎΠ²ΠΎΠ΄ΠΈΡΡΡΡ Π΄ΠΎ Π‘Π΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠ°, ΠΊΠΎΡΠΎΡΡΠΉ Π½Π°Π·ΡΠ²Π°Π΅ΡΡΡ Π½Π΅ ΡΡΠ½ΠΎΠΌ ΠΡΠΊΠΌΠ°Π½Π°, Π° Π’ΡΠ³Π°Π³Π°. ΠΠ°Π»ΡΠ½Π΅ΠΉΡΠ΅Π΅ ΠΆΠ΅ ΠΏΠΎΠ²Π΅ΡΡΠ²ΠΎΠ²Π°Π½ΠΈΠ΅ "ΠΠΈΡΠ°Ρ Π°Π»-Π°Π΄Π²Π°Ρ" ΠΎ Π’ΡΠ³Π°Π³Π΅ ΠΈ Π΅Π³ΠΎ ΠΏΠΎΡΠΎΠΌΠΊΠ°Ρ
ΡΠΎΠ²ΠΏΠ°Π΄Π°Π΅Ρ Ρ ΡΠ°ΡΡΠΊΠ°Π·Π°ΠΌΠΈ Π΄ΡΡΠ³ΠΈΡ
ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠΈΠΊΠΎΠ², ΠΏΠΎΠ»ΡΠ·ΠΎΠ²Π°Π²ΡΠΈΡ
ΡΡ "ΠΠ°Π»ΠΈΠΊ-Π½Π°ΠΌΠ΅". ΠΡΠ΅Π²ΠΈΠ΄Π½ΠΎ, ΡΡΠΎ ΠΌΠΎΠΆΠ΅Ρ ΠΎΠ±ΡΡΡΠ½ΠΈΡΡ Π»ΠΈΡΡ ΡΠ΅ΠΌ, ΡΡΠΎ ΠΡΡΠ»ΠΈΡ
Π°Π΄-ΠΠΈΠ½ ΠΏΡΡΠ°Π»ΡΡ ΡΠ²Π΅ΡΡΠΈ Π²ΠΎΠ΅Π΄ΠΈΠ½ΠΎ ΠΎΠ±Π΅ ΡΠ°ΡΡΠΌΠ°ΡΡΠΈΠ²Π°Π΅ΠΌΡΠ΅ Π²Π΅ΡΡΠΈΠΈ ΠΎ ΠΏΡΠΎΠΈΡΡ
ΠΎΠΆΠ΄Π΅Π½ΠΈΠ΅ ΡΠ°ΠΌΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠΈ Π‘Π΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΈΠ΄ΠΎΠ².
40:". Nonetheless, the point at issue is my addition citing Soviet ethnographer, Dr. of Sciences in History Imel Moldabaev's research paper called "ΠΡΠ½ΠΎΠΊΡΠ»ΡΡΡΡΠ½ΡΠ΅ ΡΠ²ΡΠ·ΠΈ ΠΊΡΡΠ³ΡΠ·ΠΎΠ² Π² ΡΡΠ΅Π΄Π½Π΅Π²Π΅ΠΊΠΎΠ²ΡΠ΅" (Ethnocultural Relations of the Kyrgyz in the Middle Ages). For information about Kerekuchi-Khwaja, Moldabaev, in turn, referred to and cited Soviet historian and academic, Prof. Dr. Sergei Grigor'evich Agadzhanov's book
263:
Peacock rejects
Agadzhanov's work on the ancestry of Seljuqs for totally lacking in source criticism (p. 14; 2010) and missing the forest for the trees (p. 17; 2010); other historians concur esp. on his uncritical usage of medieval chronicles from non-standard manuscripts. Obviously, such criticism is of no relevance since Agadzhanov does not say what you have him say!
258:
312:
the same logic to claim that the Tuqaq mentioned in the text is different from the Tuqaq, we are concerned about? Fwiw, the critical edition of the text (Kargi 1996; p. 77) gives the word as "Tokat" and did not find "Tukak" to be a reasonable emendation.If you are really interested in learing about
280:
Do you actually know or understand that
Toghrul, the son of Tughshyrmysh, is not the same person with Toghrul, the first Seljuq sultan? Of all the historians of the world, none stated that these two might well be the same person and that there was definitely a mistake in the Seljuq genealogy. These
300:
Moldbaev, who in turn had cited
Agadzhanov; thus my comment about recursive treasure-hunt. Btw, as I stated, Agadzhanov did not "conclude" anything but documented the narrative of Shajara-i TarΔkima in a footnote. The narrative of TarΔkima is clearly error-ridden (almost every scholar has noted of
169:
and
Tugshyrmysh, who did not have a noble origin. This is also indicated by the versions of "Oguz-name", and Turkmen historical legends. "According to the genealogy of Turkmens," a man named Kerekuchi-Khwaja lived in the Oghuz land. The son of Kerekuchi-Khwaja was Tugshyrmysh, who was a master of
262:
This selective usage of Soviet sources and continued blustering, probably hoping that none can verify them, is emblematic of your problematic approach to editing. So, I am unsurprised to see you persist on misrepresenting sources in a thread on mispresenting sources! I will end with noting that
207:
So, itβs probably down to my average (poor) Russian that I added
Kerekuchi khwaja as the "father" of Tuqaq, when Agadzhanov concluded that he was most probably Tuqaq's "grandfather". I believe this not to be an end-of-the-world mistake or misrepresentation as user TB attempts to bring forward,
120:
The history of the
Seljuqids, according to Mosleh al-Din, also starts with Kerekuchi Khwaja, and is brought to Seljuq, who is not called the son of Luqman, but of Tuqaq. The further narrative of "Mirat al-advar" about Tuqaq and his descendants matches the stories of other historians who used
160:
The researched data, therefore, in a whole series of details clearly do not agree with each other. However, their critical comparison makes it possible to identify the earliest links in the family tree of the Seljuq family. In "Malik-name", as we can see, there is no information about
62:"Π‘Π΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊ ΠΈΠ±Π½ ΠΡΠΊΠΌΠ°Π½ β ΠΏΠΈΡΠ΅Ρ Π Π°ΡΠΈΠ΄ Π°Π΄-ΠΠΈΠ½, - Π±ΡΠ» ΠΈΠ· ΡΠΎΠ΄ΡΡΠ²Π΅Π½Π½ΠΈΠΊΠΎΠ² Π‘Π΅Π»ΡΠ΄ΠΆΡΠΊΠΎΠ² ΠΈ ΠΏΡΠΎΠΈΡΡ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΈΠ» ΠΈΠ· ΠΊΠΎΡΡΠΈ (ΠΎΡΡΠΎΡ
Π°Π½) ΠΊΡΠ½ΡΠΊ, ΠΈΠ· ΡΠΎΠ΄Π° Π’ΡΠ³ΡΡΡΠΌΡΡΠ°, ΡΡΠ½Π° ΠΠ΅ΡΠ΅ΠΊΡΡΠΈ-Ρ
ΠΎΠ΄ΠΆΠΈ, ΠΊΠΎΡΠΎΡΡΠΉ Π±ΡΠ» ΠΌΠ°ΡΡΠ΅ΡΠΎΠΌ ΠΏΠΎ ΠΈΠ·Π³ΠΎΡΠΎΠ²Π»Π΅Π½ΠΈΡ ΠΊΠΈΠ±ΠΈΡΠΎΠΊ Ρ ΡΡΡΠΊΡΠΊΠΈΡ
ΡΠ°ΡΠ΅ΠΉ, ΠΎΠ½ ΡΠ»ΡΠΆΠΈΠ» ΠΏΡΠΈ Π’ΠΎΠ³ΡΡΠ» ΡΡΠ»ΡΠ°Π½Π΅ ΠΈΠ· ΠΏΠ»Π΅ΠΌΠ΅Π½ΠΈ (ΡΡΡΠ³) ΠΊΡΠ½ΡΠΊΒ»
238:) is a primary source from the late seventeenth century, chronicled roughly six hundred years after the events in question? Given your failure to use capitals in the English translation and the skipping of quotation marks in the Russian version, I doubt that; it is
301:
this; hence, Peacock, Bosworth et al do not even rely on it to any extent) and your claims about the names of
Toghrul/Arslan are too ridiculous to merit a rebut.That said, if I wish to have fun, let me accept your (factually inaccurate) claim that
161:
Kerekuchi-khwaja, who was a simple master of making tents. The genealogical scheme of the Seljuq family in this source begins with
Sarchiq-Tugag, who is depicted as a nobleman, royal adviser, powerful military leader (529, p. 41 and foll.) ...
118:"Seljuq ibn Tuqaq β as Mosleh al-Din narrates - (comes) from the clan of Tugshyrmysh, the son of Kerekuchi Khwaja, who was a master of making tents for King Toghrul, mentioned in the story about the Samanids.(289, p. 233; 290, p. 131).
148:
Also, here one may assume that
Tughshyrmysh is probably the name of the clan or sub-tribe of a larger Qiniq tribe. However, Agadzhanov later presents constructive view on the material from primary sources about early Seljuqids:
231:
do citations exist (they do to verify the text rather than launch the reader on a recursive treasure-hunt across the bibliography of cited texts) but I won't.Did you recognize that the "Geneaology of Turkmens"
282:
67:
The above sentence may be roughly translated as: "Seljuq ibn Luqman, writes Rashid ad-Din, was from the relatives of Seljuqs and originated from the tribe (ostokhan) of Qiniq, from
121:"Malik-name". Obviously, this can only be explained by the fact that Mosleh al-Din tried to bring together both versions under consideration about the origin of the Seljuq family.
242:
Agadzhanov's opinion that Tugshyrmysh had three sons, one of whom was named Tuqaq but that of a primary source. Btw, the line continues to state that the other two sons were
144:
Seljuq was the son of Tuqaq, from the clan or lineage of Tugshyrmysh, the son of Kerekuchi Khwaja, who was a master of making tents, either for Turkic kings or King Togrul.
135:(ΩΨ³Ψ¨) or a patronymic which was and continues to be used throughout the Arabic and Muslim worlds (that adopted Arabic culture) indicating the person's heritage, so
44:
pp. 168-170 (first published in 1969) (Essays on the history of the Oghuz and Turkmens of Central Asia in the IX-XIII centuries). Upon stumbling on the name
51:
Prior to pages 168-170, Agadzhanov presents some materials regarding Kerekuchi-Khwaja and Tughshyrmysh from primary sources, specifically from works of
317:
to craft a particular past that was often at conflicts with documented history. That said, why don't you skip to #10 than beating a dead horse?
38:
Some medieval historians have traced Seljuqid descent from Tugshirmysh/Tuqshurmish but nobody has ever held Kerequchi to be the father of Tuqaq
308:
and concede that the Arsalan and Toghrul mentioned in the Karakima are different than the eponymous figures from Seljuqid history. How about
48:
in Moldabaevβs book, it was logical to proceed to the cited pages of Agadzhanov's work to discover who that person in question was.
32:
There are indeed a handful of sources that identify Tuqaq with Tugshyrmysh as Trangbellam him/herself notes at Unfala's talk page (
163:
Comparative historical synthesis, thus, makes it possible to conclude that Sarchiq-Tuqaq was not the founder of the Seljuq dynasty
313:
TarΔkima, consult Penrose 1986, who discusses about the author's motivations, and the process of writing the chronicle by
254:(who, ahem, is accepted to be Tuqaq's great-great-grandson in conventional historiography on Seljuqs). Quite a thing!
75:, who was a master of making tents for Turkic kings, he served under Sultan Togrul from the tribe (urug) of Qiniq".
322:
271:
52:
17:
234:
56:
318:
267:
248:(who, ahem, is accepted to be Tuqaq's grandson in conventional historiography on Seljuqs) and
286:
217:
175:
Eventually commenting on Tughshyrmysh at the bottom of that page, Agadzhanov writes:
131:, instead of Luqman. Besides, it's a common knowledge that Arabic word "ibn" is a
132:
326:
291:
275:
222:
139:(Ψ§Ψ¨Ω) means "son of". Correspondingly, Seljuq ibn Tuqaq = Seljuq, son of Tuqaq.
250:
36:). However, I wouldn't be so dogmatic as to say that (Trangabellam's quote): "
165:. The genealogical list of this family before Sarchiq includes the names of
78:
At the bottom of that page, Agadzhanov provides a commentary for the name
142:
Summing up the above, commonly referred to primary sources indicate that
244:
33:
109:
Agadzhanov then provides a passage from Mosleh al-Dinβs work:
381:
379:
366:
364:
362:
296:
Thanks for your reponse.You did not cite Agadzhanov but
353:ΠΡΠ΅ΡΠΊΠΈ ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠΈΠΈ ΠΎΠ³ΡΠ·ΠΎΠ² ΠΈ ΡΡΡΠΊΠΌΠ΅Π½ Π‘ΡΠ΅Π΄Π½Π΅ΠΉ ΠΠ·ΠΈΠΈ IX-XIII Π²Π²
208:
because that could've been edited by changing the word
42:ΠΡΠ΅ΡΠΊΠΈ ΠΈΡΡΠΎΡΠΈΠΈ ΠΎΠ³ΡΠ·ΠΎΠ² ΠΈ ΡΡΡΠΊΠΌΠ΅Π½ Π‘ΡΠ΅Π΄Π½Π΅ΠΉ ΠΠ·ΠΈΠΈ IX-XIII Π²Π²
306:
stated that these two might well be the same person
194:"The genealogy of Turkmens further indicates that
102:(Tuqaq), as was written in original works, copied
127:As you can see here, Mosleh al-Din uses the name
315:weaving in historical characters into oral lores
192:
178:Π ΡΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΡΠ»ΠΎΠ²Π½ΠΎΠΉ ΡΡΡΠΊΠΌΠ΅Π½ ΡΠΊΠ°Π·ΡΠ²Π°Π΅ΡΡΡ Π΄Π°Π»Π΅Π΅, ΡΡΠΎ
176:
158:
150:
116:
110:
60:
8:
397:
385:
370:
343:
265:I will allow you to have the last word.
302:
227:It is probably worth asking you about
255:
7:
98:(copyists), who instead of the name
24:
96:a mistake of contemporary scribes
86:is actually the same person with
256:
1:
327:08:27, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
292:07:58, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
276:17:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
223:13:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
115:This may be translated asΒ :
351:Agadzhanov, Sergei (1969).
419:
196:Tugshyrmysh had three sons
180:Ρ Π’ΡΠ³ΡΡΡΠΌΡΡΠ° Π±ΡΠ»ΠΎ ΡΡΠΈ ΡΡΠ½Π°
198:: the eldest of whom was
182:: ΡΡΠ°ΡΡΠ΅Π³ΠΎ ΠΈΠ· ΠΊΠΎΡΠΎΡΠΎΠ³ΠΎ
69:the clan of Tugshyrmysh
204:
188:
172:
154:
124:
114:
64:
53:Rashid al-Din Hamadani
18:User talk:TrangaBellam
27:Response by VC on #2
235:Shajara-i TarΔkima
82:, clarifying that
57:Mosleh al-Din Lari
410:
401:
395:
389:
383:
374:
368:
357:
356:
348:
289:
285:almost in full.
261:
260:
259:
220:
167:Kerekuchi-Khwaja
73:Kerekuchi-Khwaja
418:
417:
413:
412:
411:
409:
408:
407:
406:
405:
404:
398:Agadzhanov 1969
396:
392:
386:Agadzhanov 1969
384:
377:
371:Agadzhanov 1969
369:
360:
350:
349:
345:
287:
257:
218:
90:, and the name
29:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
416:
414:
403:
402:
400:, pp.Β 167β168.
390:
375:
358:
342:
341:
337:
336:
335:
334:
333:
332:
331:
330:
329:
205:
189:
173:
155:
146:
140:
125:
107:
76:
65:
49:
28:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
415:
399:
394:
391:
387:
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380:
376:
372:
367:
365:
363:
359:
354:
347:
344:
340:
328:
324:
320:
316:
311:
310:extrapolating
307:
305:
299:
295:
294:
293:
290:
284:
279:
278:
277:
273:
269:
266:
253:
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246:
241:
237:
236:
230:
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225:
224:
221:
215:
211:
206:
203:
201:
197:
191:Translation:
190:
187:
185:
181:
174:
171:
170:making yurtsβ¦
168:
164:
156:
153:
147:
145:
141:
138:
134:
130:
126:
123:
122:
113:
108:
105:
101:
97:
93:
89:
85:
81:
77:
74:
71:, the son of
70:
66:
63:
58:
54:
50:
47:
43:
39:
35:
31:
30:
26:
19:
393:
352:
346:
338:
319:TrangaBellam
314:
309:
303:
297:
268:TrangaBellam
264:
249:
243:
239:
233:
228:
213:
209:
200:called Tuqaq
199:
195:
193:
183:
179:
177:
166:
162:
159:
157:Translation:
151:
143:
136:
128:
119:
117:
111:
103:
99:
95:
91:
87:
83:
79:
72:
68:
61:
46:Tughshyrmysh
45:
41:
37:
288:Visioncurve
219:Visioncurve
214:grandfather
184:Π·Π²Π°Π»ΠΈ Π’ΡΠΊΠ°ΠΊ
339:References
251:Alp Arslan
388:, p.Β 167.
373:, p.Β 166.
355:. p.Β 166.
106:(Luqman).
245:Tughril
283:GBooks
210:father
104:ΩΩΩΩ
Ψ§Ω
92:Luqman
84:Luqman
80:Luqman
34:diff 1
133:nasab
129:Tuqaq
100:ΨͺΩΩΨ§Ω
88:Tuqaq
16:<
323:talk
304:none
298:only
272:talk
202:..."
55:and
240:not
229:why
212:to
137:ibn
94:is
378:^
361:^
325:)
274:)
59::
321:(
270:(
232:(
216:.
186:β¦
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