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the example of the George Bush article, which seems to be to be a perfect wiki article. I do know a great deal of factual information about this subject, and feel the need to share it. I replaced "Buddhist" with "anti-WSS" for Tenzin Peljor's website because it is not a
Buddhist website but full of anti-WSS propaganda which figures very prominently on this article -- however, I agree that we can just leave any adjectives out about it. I was clumsy with the other Buddhist groups views section, my mistake, and have tried to show the other point of view as many of these perceptions were solicited by Tenzin Peljor in a move to discredit the WSS, but those solicited for comment did not know the peaceful nature of the demonstrations. Also, the inaccurate comment by the ASA about ordination I believe does not belong on this article at all, but if you want to leave it there, I must be allowed to answer it. (
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check of it for you. Using those templates is straightforward in the end but they can be daunting at first. Just once you get used to using the various templates it does get easier to do! One suggestion by the way (in case you didn't realise so excuse my saying this if you already know) is to use the "show preview" button before you press "save page", have a scan over your edit, see if it has worked or not. And yes I intend having a go at the Dorje
Shugden controversy article when I can! With the way the WSS article is now heading with the input of about 3 or 4 editors, I think the article is getting quite reasonable. So I (we really as others like yourself will edit too on there) can use some of the content and the sources on the controversy article. It will be quite a bigger task though and will not all be done in one go! But I feel it is worth the effort! Thanks.
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who do not agree with his politico-religio ban of Buddha Dorje
Shugden. They have no recourse whatsoever, nowhere to turn, it is agony for them. I have also found that to dare speak a word in criticism of him is, as the South African official pointed out, regarded by many Westerners as unfavorably as shooting Bambi. This might be because they are holding onto an idealized view of the Dalai Lama and have not seen his dark side. I find this degree of slavish, even cultish, devotion very unusual and amazing in our modern age and it means the Dalai Lama gets away with far more than he should. It would be great if he could be one or the other -- either religious or political leader -- but both doesn't work.
230:. There is no point in you keep adding the content how you are doing (ie unsourced) as it will be removed every time. There is some more content in the "other buddhist group views" section which I will also remove if I can't find a source - the content criticisng the WSS by the German Buddhist Union. I am trying to find sources, and if I can't find any, I will remove it. I put the fact tags on them anyway so may as well remove them. When you say you don't have the time to keep doing edits again, wikipedia is not going anywhere, and there is no huge rush to do any of this, but you need to work with other users and not disregard in use tags. Patience.
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the "), followed by two }} at the top of the article. That then adds the in use tag at the top of the article. I can always add it for you the first time if you are unsure. Just try to remember to remove it once you have finished editing. With the Dalai Lama, maybe nothing needs to be added right now until there are further planned protests, or any other activity? With any pictures, it just needs to be pictures that whoever adds them has the right to do so. It is a whole minefield itself adding pictures as they should be added to the wikimedia commons
2323:, I have created a Usercheck with more content, that I plan to update with more when I come across it, as of right now Usercheck-Super has only three more things than Usercheck-full, but as mentioned, I plan to update it, the three things I mentioned are pending changes log, giving all of the revisions you have accepted or rejected, Abuse filter, which gives you the ability to examine your edits, and get many details about an edit, along with Articles created, which links to a page which gives a breakdown of all the pages you have made.
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answer your question, the Dalai Lama is suffering from exhaustion and so both his engagements and the WSS demonstrations in
Switzerland and Germany have been cancelled. However, the situation continues to deteriorate in India, so my understanding is that the WSS is still committed to organizing peaceful protests in the future until the ban is lifted. As for pictures, does it have to be a personal one, or can it be one that we get copyright permission for from the WSS? Could you kindly remind me of the correct format. Cheers. (
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trying to smear Geshe
Kelsang's name" is an accusation that is not acceptable. In addition removing sourced content because you don't happen to agree with it or like it is not a valid reason for removing content. Also, the content you removed about the background and the DSC is perfectly relevant. Please do not remove it again. As it is clear, from your edits and your profile that you are a follower of Geshe Kelsang, the NKT and WSS, I would urge you to read the following article thoroughly
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Are there any recent protests or planned? (*) I am wary of adding full details of future protests as it could be construed as adding "promotional material", but feel that something should be added. Is there anything on the WSS site? Also, if there are any pictures from protests that are added in the correct format then the article would benefit from a couple of pitures in my opinion. For instance, personal photos from any of the protests.
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the fact tag yet as I would prefer asking you to verify it first. Is there something on the WSS website to verify it and where you got that from, which I presume there is? It needs to be from the WSS official site though and not one of the numerous blogs or other sites. If so please add a source and please also try to use one of the templates I have used throughout the article. Thanks.
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Prize winners). I don't understand the Dorje
Shugden thing, so it's hard for me to get the root cause of your antagonism. But given you have that axe to grind, I understand your desire to put in something negative about the Dalai Lama. Even so, what you added didn't fit and set off bias-alert bells, which is why I toned it down and balanced it.
745:(and many still are) devoted Tibetans who love their motherland as much as any other Tibetan. Moreover, if the Dalai Lama wanted to solve this problem, he could do so in one speech. (When people find out more about the other actions of the Dalai Lama, the ones hidden from view, they might not be so inclined to shoot the messenger.) (
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people who think the article complies with NPOV, and some people who disagree. In general, you should not remove the NPOV dispute tag merely because you personally feel the article complies with NPOV. Rather, the tag should be removed only when there is a consensus among the editors that the NPOV disputes have indeed been resolved.
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I don't believe I am contradicting WP guidelines. I believe you contradicted them by putting the banners up in a draconian manner in the first place without checking with other editors, and especially without giving any specific article content to back up your unilateral decision. Meanwhile, it seems
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Yes, I do, very much so. It is misleading at the moment to have the generic term Tantra describing Hindu Tantra only. (I could help with the
Buddhist Tantra part of the overview, improving what is already there, in a few short paragraphs. But I am no expert on a general overview of Tantra, so someone
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I was repeating something stated by an official. I found it interesting that he was questioning the Dalai Lama's murky dual role of politician and spiritual leader. I have personally witnessed that this theocratic role has caused a great deal of trouble and pain for
Tibetans who used to trust him but
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I have removed the tag now (as I need a rest I'm "wikipediaed", not that it is a word). If you wish to go through my edits and make any changes, and want to do so with the in use tag on it, so that you can edit in peace as it were, all you need do is add two {{ followed by the words "in use" (without
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With regard to some of your edits - US State
Department Report by Special Agent Brockman is not a fully verifiable third party source. Sources need to be verifiable, and what you have entered most definitely is not. The comment by John Rees Burgess is not even sourced. I have tried to verify both the
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In addition to the abovr, you have edited the section about other
Buddist groups views on the WSS so that it now reads as totally the opposite. That section is meant to show other views about the WSS and not how the WSS react to those views only. You need to be a lot more careful with your editing. I
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Further to your last edit on the WSS article adding this, "They also argue that even if the worship of Dorje Shugden has now become a minority religion, it is still correct to protect the religious freedom of minorities." Whilst I am sure it is relevant, you have added it unsourced. I have not added
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One more thing before I stop for the night - the WSS logo was in the infobox but was removed because it did not meet the specific requirements for wikipedia. If you wish to add it again, have a look at the Amnesty International logo (located at Image:AI logo 2008.svg) and then click on edit, as that
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Firstly, my apologies, it was Atishas Cook who earler edited on the article and who I asked not to. However, regardless of that, the in use tag does very clearly say "This article is actively undergoing a major edit for a short while. As a courtesy, please do not edit this page while this message is
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Thank you Tangerines, I'll take on board the points you make here. I have read that Wiki article about conflict of interest and am being careful about neutrality -- actually I have no wish to use this article to promote the WSS, I would just like the information to be accurate. I am trying to follow
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I have answered you in various places, but not on my talkpage. Tone your rethoric down a notch please, your edits do not show good faith to me. Fact is you are spamming info from one source of low quality, so in general your edits just have a low credibility. Your spelling corrections are sometimes
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The main problem with dealing with Tantra is that it is an umbrella term for traditions with many strands, interpretations and varying emphasis. That, along with the esoteric terminology, makes it difficult to write an understandable encyclopedic summary of the topic. But it should be worth a try.
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It is the Dalai Lama who is playing into the hands of the Chinese, no one else. He alone has caused the split and weakness in the Tibetan community that the Chinese are now able to exploit. There was no split before his actions, the Tibetans in exile were united. The Tibetans he is segregating were
388:. If you copy and paste one of the others in the article you can then just amend the title, date and URL. If you are working on the article I can add the "in use tag for you if you like? (I've taken the liberty of adding the in use tag on the article while you are editing so you can edit in peace!)
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Whilst I am at it, I did ask on Atishas Cooks page, and will also ask you - You may be able to help with this - I presume that the WSS intention is to protest at all talks given by the Dalai Lama (while this is going on of course)? If so then the last protest that I can find reported was in August.
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added highly POV content to the article and I would urge you to stop doing so. Adding "the anti-WSS" about a website is not acceptable. I have amended some of your recent edits partly because of use of a primary source and also for other reasons such as neutraility etc. Thank you and happy editing.
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and:Sometimes people have edit wars over the NPOV dispute tag, or have an extended debate about whether there is a NPOV dispute or not. In general, if you find yourself having an ongoing dispute about whether a dispute exists, there's a good chance one does, and you should therefore leave the NPOV
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see nkt talk page please could you replace the NPOV banners you removed since you are contradicting WP guidelines on this issue. Moreover, 72 hours ago, our colleague AC suggested the banners be debated. 72 hours is not long enough to wait before taking the somewhat draconian decision to eliminate
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Ok, I'm back. Tell me if you want to do manual archiving or if you want a bot to do it. If you want the bot, the you need to set it by day. Archive once a week? Once a month? Also, if you want the current page archived, I can help you with that too. Would you like the contents of this entire
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seems to be Mitsube's sidekick insofar as he is following suit and just referring to Mitsube for his reasons. I have tried discussing good faith editing with him on his talk page also, but five days have gone by. (Should I ask for the relevant pages to be protected? Might that work to preserve the
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As an aside, do you recognize that you are playing into the hands of a common threat? The Chinese government and its apologists have been trying and waiting for decades to do anything to take the Dalai Lama down a notch, because they know that weakening the Dalai Lama means weakening opposition to
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Thanks for your honest and clear response. You make a valid point about the universally one-sided favorable view Westerners maintain of the Dalai Lama, but he is not unique in that. Many other non-violent political underdogs receive similarly devotional portrayals (including most other Nobel Peace
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Where did you make those requests? I didn't see them. How does one go about adding a tag like that to an article? Please can you put my edits back in once you are done editing or let me know how I can do it quickly. I have been editing in good faith and don't have time to keep doing the same edits
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When you say, "I must be allowed to answer it", wikipedia articles are not for discussion, that is what talk pages are for. You have to be very careful when editing. I note however that yet again you have ignored the In use tag and gone ahead and made a number of edits, completely disregarding the
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Hello Nja. I'd be happy to do this. Could you give me a pointer as to where to go from here? I have been having a lot of trouble with Mitsube, who seems to be following me from article to article and undoing all my edits and references with no valid reasons. I have tried talking to him/her on his
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I'd like to encourage you to directly converse with those you're in dispute with on their talk pages or on the relevant article's talk page, rather than continue on with edit wars. Failure to communicate and reach consensus could end with edit blocks to prevent disruption to Knowledge. Thank you.
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No worries, it will al work out in the end. Don't worry if you haven't got it exactly right. Once you have finished editing today on there, just take off the "in use" tag at the top of the article (you will see it in edit mode so just removed it like you would any other content) and I will have a
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and as such "Knowledge articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Knowledge editors". You have
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In particular,there it says:It is important to remember that the NPOV dispute tag does not mean that an article actually violates NPOV. It simply means that there is an ongoing dispute about whether the article complies with a neutral point of view or not. In any NPOV dispute, there will be some
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Welcome back We are doing fine here, after some rough days, and EM is behaving very sensibly.I beleive I am tryng too, though, like all humans, I get lost sometimes. We have discussed the insert you reverted (EMs edit BTW) and come to an agreement. Please read the section near the bottom of the
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Tangerines, I can see you are a good editor and have been fact-checking in a fair way, (plus, ahem, you have a sense of humour), so thank you for your contributions to this article. (I still don't know how one manages to put up an "In use" tag? Do you have to be an administrator to do that?) To
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for any tests you may want to do. This refers to this edit summary - "removed as it is irrelevant to the WSS, they are different organizations and you are trying to smear Geshe Kelsang's name)" Please note that you should not "verbally attack" or make accusations against other editors. "You are
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Would you mind proposing this on the article talk page ? That way we can invite other views and perhaps a cadre of knowledgeable editors who will be ready to help. Since there is no urgency here, I think we should wait for a week or so before actually splitting the Tantra article. Cheers.
111:. Whilst it is great that you wish to contribute to wikipedia and to the article about the WSS, please bear in mind that articles need to be neutral. They are not there to promote one particular view or a group. In addition using the WSS website as a source - it is what is known as a
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Interesting question you asked Sacca. I think that the lead was fine, especially once I cleaned it up and used better sources. I thought that (using non-practitioner sources) would satisfy the objections to it, but it seems that may just have been an excuse rather than a reason...
1934:, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See
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other editors are making the article even more qualified as we speak, and there is even less call for the banners. Better if you could do your editing work yourself, making your improvements to the article -- those edits will remain if they are backed up by
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tag and my two requests above for you to wait until the tag has been removed before editing. I have therefore rollbakced all your latest edits and would for a third and hopefully final time ask you to wait until the tag is removed before editing. Thank you.
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attribute value, its external links are disregarded by most search engines. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. Remember, blogs are generally not acceptable as links.
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and always do my best to maintain wiki principles, the five pillars. Point out any instances where you feel I fail in this and I can address them invididually. If you are making a blanket generalization, however, this reveals more about your
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their oppressive control over Tibet. They are thrilled to exploit the split in the Tibetan community that you describe. Just because you see the Dalai Lama as causing the split doesn't mean you have to help Tibet's enemies use it.
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talk page, so far to no avail -- he ignores me there and carries on reverting my edits. I notice from his talk page that other editors also have a hard time with him. What do you suggest I do next? Thanks for your help. (
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1984:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose
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on WP if advancing the cause of the NKT or their beleifs are more important to them than advancing the aims of Knowledge. I ask as the overwhelming majority of your edits are on NKT related articles such as
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US State Dep't comment and the Human Rights Lawyer comments but there is nothing on google about John Rees Burgess that I can find. I would ask you to read some articles about editing on wikipedia -
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prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for
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policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should
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policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should
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If you've tried the talk pages and are still having issues, I'd recommend reading over the many options available under Knowledge's dispute resolution policy. I'd particularly look
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As you can see, I have put a similar 3rr warning on your user talk page as you are the worst culprit for this as can been seen by the other complaints about you on your talk page. (
255:(*)I've been told that the Dalai Lama has since cancelled all his remaining engagements this year. If so is that at all related or relevant to the article to add perhaps? Thank you.
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I think Sacca and Mitsube have reverted all your changes back again :-( Between them, they reverted my stuff many times (with bad or no reasons), carefully avoiding the 3RR. (
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It's a bit surprising to see a self-described Buddhist quoting a South African official repeating the Chinese government's standard political smears against the Dalai Lama
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Great, I'm sure I read it on the WSS site or something similar to what you added. The "templates" are all the source templates (basically everything between <ref: -->
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else would have to extract the Hindu elements and move to a new daughter article, while summarizing the main points on Hindu Tantra for the general Tantra article). (
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Hello Nja, I have followed your advice. So far, no success (Mitsube is still simply undoing all my edits with no reasons and no discussion), but I live in hope. (
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focused mainly on the Hindu tradition. It would perhaps be better to have a single short overview article on all strands of Tantrism and daughter articles on
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Come on, you claim to be a follower of the Kadampa Buddhist tradition, which in the UK and USA is synonymous with the often controversial group known as the
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less controversial even though their merits are debatable. I would suggest to you to try adding the spelling corrections without the POV material Greetings,
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622:. Rather than reverting, please discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you.
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with licence information and other information. They can then be used from there. I just feel that one or two small images will add to the article. Thanks.
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as you, and several other major contributors to that article, appear to have close connections to the orginization which is the subject of the article.
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Please, could all concerned read these guidelines since there appears to be considerable confusion in relation to them in the content of this article.
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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the
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that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. Please use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did, and feel free to use
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where did u get the idea i am new to wikipedia? Mitsube aready gave enough reasons, not necessary to mention those reasons again. Greetings,
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and in this you always seem particularly keen to stress the NKT POV and edit out or deprecate material conflicting with their views.
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Simply, its the bad sources. Try to read some scholarly books on the subject. Your edits might become more acceptable. Greetings,
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I can confirm that we are not the same person. I am not sure who Truthsayer62 is, other than what it says on his/her user page. (
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articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
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articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
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You seem to think that you have good faith because your didn't undo any edits I did? thats not how it works. Greetings,
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to
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If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about on Knowledge, you may have a
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have restored that section to what it should be. Please do not change it again to somthing that it should not be.
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and follow other WP guidelines. We should also keep this conversation on the NKT talk page, not have it here. (
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Hi Tangerines, I will find the source, thank you. What do you mean by "templates"? (excuse my ignorance). (
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Aha, I see what you mean with this template thing but I can't quite get it to work... I'll keep trying. (
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993:: Please take these discussions to the article talk pages so that others may participate. Thank you.
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I'm wondering Truthbody can you tell us whether or not you are affiliated in any way with with the
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For information on how to contribute to Knowledge when you have a conflict of interest, please see
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For information on how to contribute to Knowledge when you have a conflict of interest, please see
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Constructive contributions to Knowledge are appreciated, but a recent edit of yours to the article
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Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to
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notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on
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will show how the image should be formatted, and then the WSS logo can be added in the same way.
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to the Knowledge article or website of your organization in other articles (see
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All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Knowledge's
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page moved to an archive, or do you want to keep some stuff here? Let me know.
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Please bear the content above in mind before attempting to remove the banner
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I am not following you, you have just chosen to target pages on my watchlist.
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are the same person. Could you confirm or deny this speculation? Thank you.
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I might need some help with this! I don't know how to fill all the bits in. (
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/New Kadampa Tradition (2nd nomination)
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about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
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about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
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It's pretty common on Knowledge. Take a look at my latest note on
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is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge
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Hello. Recently, questions have arisen about whether you and
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tag up until there is a consensus that it should be removed.
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at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
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Proposed deletion of Prehistory of the New Kadampa Tradition
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Hello: if you are receiving this, you have transcluded
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COI Template added to the New Kadampa Tradition article
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
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etc. Do you think this is a good idea or worth doing ?
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for further explanations. Because Knowledge uses the
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62:An article that you have been involved in editing,
28:An article that you have been involved in editing,
1792:. In particular it seems NKT members may stand in
1705:Further to that, and in light of your recent edit
1659:, so that I can check with you about something? -
1972:You appear to be eligible to vote in the current
1836:You can read about me on my user page. I have no
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1645:our frequently asked questions for organizations
1532:our frequently asked questions for organizations
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1757:http://www.thangka.ru/gallery/img/drakpur_6.jpg
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772:I agree with you that it is not ideal to have
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38:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Dorje Shugden
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1422:Hello, Truthbody. You have new messages at
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1894:Hi Truthbody. I've added a COI template to
1669:I am not sure how to go about doing that? (
1393:, perhaps there is something you could do.
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1691:discussion page. Hope you had a good week
1536:the banners without adequate discussion.
897:, but likely start with filing a report
524:Prehistory of the New Kadampa Tradition
522:template has been added to the article
51:AfD nomination of New Kadampa Tradition
1932:Knowledge is not a collection of links
669:Why are you maligning the Dalai Lama?
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1998:review the candidates' statements
1845:and bias than any I might have. (
1922:Please do not add inappropriate
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1581:. In keeping with Knowledge's
1468:. In keeping with Knowledge's
17:AfD nomination of Dorje Shugden
2004:. For the Election committee,
1974:Arbitration Committee election
1965:ArbCom elections are now open!
493:20:25, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
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109:Knowledge:Conflict of interest
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2014:13:56, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
1455:New Kadampa tradition banners
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1936:the external links guideline
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1855:19:01, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
1831:10:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
1634:verifiability of information
1521:verifiability of information
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2000:and submit your choices on
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1819:The New Meditation Handbook
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545:Knowledge's deletion policy
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2325:MediaWiki message delivery
2006:MediaWiki message delivery
1568:)OK, I have replied there.
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1403:02:35, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
686:21:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
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1930:and many other articles.
1811:Dorje Shugden controversy
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676:. What's up with that?
568:proposed deletion process
80:of receiving this notice?
46:of receiving this notice?
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537:criteria for inclusion
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1978:Arbitration Committee
1896:New Kadampa Tradition
1862:New Kadampa Tradition
1799:New Kadampa Tradition
1647:. Thank you. --: -->
1630:neutral point of view
1583:neutral point of view
1534:. Thank you. --: -->
1517:neutral point of view
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1411:Re: Quick question
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1686:Edit 29 May
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