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rather cumbersome and ugly term - a matter of taste which you might not share, of course. But it is a coldly geographic term - like calling
Italian lands the "Appenine peninsula". It has none of that simple fluidity and recognizability of simply "Italy". The term "Spain" can similarly be used in the pre-modern classical sense, the "Spain" or "Hispania" of antiquity, the popular name of the peninsula before the formation of the modern country. Just as one might use "Germany" or "Italy" as the geographical area that existed before the formation of countries with those names in the 19th C., "Spain" referred to the entire peninsula (Portugal, Castile, Aragon, etc.) before the 16th C. And that is the epoch which is being referred to here.
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counterparts", "Spanish and
Sicilian freebooters partitioned Sardinia", etc.) to make it much more preferable (IMO) than "Iberian peninsula". As mentioned, where there is cause of confusion (e.g. delineating boundaries), it might merit inclusion for precision. But where it is just a manner of speech, can you leave the "Spain" be? It is imprecise yes, but so are references to "North Africa" ("Maghreb" =/= "North Africa" but only North Africa west of Egypt - or, more precisely, west of Baqra - but it would be cumbersome to point that out every time).
571:(who?) King of León referred to her as "Queen". It's truth that she tried to be queen, but her sister Urraca didn't consented. A thesis of a portuguese throne before Afonso Henriques it's a new "historic criation". And I began to be tired and bored of attempts of "recriation" on History of Portugal by some Wikipedists more imaginative. So, if you want to proclaim new thesis and kings, or queens, in portuguese history, please, give a very good account of your sources. My best regards and a great salut for you,
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216:, there was no political entity called "Spain" and the word was completely politically neutral. Also, in this era, before the standardisation of languages that took place much later, "Spanish" was not a associated only with Castilian-speaking areas and it need not be. "Christian Spain" is a common term for all the Christian kingdoms of Iberia in this period, including Castile-León, Navarre, Aragon-Valencia, and Portugal.
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speech front, I know what you are trying to do. You believe the term "Spain" might mislead people to imagining it refers only to the modern country of Spain, which might imply exclusion of the modern country of
Portugal, which was also part of al-Andalus. But your correction misleads another way - since al-Andalus did
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to Spain and 16-th century
Spanish people from Magellan. However, I think it is generally agreed in Knowledge (XXG) that people who do not ethnically belong to a certain country (in that case Spain) should have categories linking them to that country if they had served it, as is the case of both men.
176:?!?), a very good editor overall and very well sourced in things historical, insists that we can call Spain to the whole Iberian Peninsula because, that is what they generally and wrongly do in the English historiographical tradition, etc, etc. I have had discussions with him before - see for example
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It is not necessary to change every pre-modern reference to "Spain"/"Spaniard"/"Spanish" to "Iberia"/"Iberian". The word "Spain" is the common designator for
Christian Iberia (or all Iberia) before the advent of the united Kingdom of Spain under the Catholic Monarchs. Portugal was a part of Spain and
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Given that both terms are, strictly speaking, incorrect, I can only hope to appeal to aesthetics and traditional usage to leave it as "Spain" and refrain from substitution, except where there might be clear cause for confusion. Personally, from an aesthetic angle, I find "Iberian peninsula" to be a
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I've noticed that you've recently gone around the many pages related to al-Andalus and substituted "Iberian peninsula" for "Spain". I know my appeal is likely to fall flat, but is it possible to persuade you to refrain from doing so? I appeal on the point of aesthetics and manner of speech. On the
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Brazil also had a fairly decent level of authonomy within the
Portuguese Empire, having an authonomous central government and distinct status from other portuguese colonies, which would be further expanded in 1815, when the colony of Brazil was elevated to the rank of a Kingdom and by the same law
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Well, I´m not proclaiming or "recreating" anything. You asked me one thing and I replied, I'm not trying to impose anything on that subject, I didn't do it in the past, and I´m not intending to do it in the future. It´s just a very light and personal view that I have about that particular question,
1982:
I understand you have quite an impressive ammount of contributions related to portguese historiography (and i admire that), and considering this background, you most likely have some knowledge of brazilian and brazilianist historiography to understand the importance and the studies made by them on
1975:
Considering those facts, i edited the article (based on the debate on the talk page) to insert a good ammount of missing information (such as the colonial brazilian naval vessels, the regiments and units participating, etc) and to distinguish the participation of brazilian colonial subjects of the
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cover the
Iberian peninsula, but just part of it. So that misleads people into imagining all was part of it. Moreover, in other ways, "Iberian peninsula", being a cold geographical term, is too narrow - a lot of the events and activities involve the Balearic islands or the Narbonne corridor,
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In both writing and reading the text, "Spain" simply works better as a general way of usage - more compact, less aesthetically jarring, and directly recognizable, with sufficient flexibility, ease and usage ("Abd al-Rahman landed in Spain", "the
African commanders quarreled with their Spanish
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it was
Spanish until a country called "Spain" (which included Portugal 1580–1640) cropped up and stole the Latin-derived name of the entire peninsula for itself. Any given work of history will refer to "Spain" before 1516 and will refer to the entire (Christian) peninsula this way.
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historiography, the
Invasion of Cayenne is interpreted as the moment of birth of Brazilian colonial identity and the baptism of fire of the Brazilian Marine Corps. It´s of great significance to brazilian history studies and an important issue in modern historiography.
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There is a topic in the talk page, where many of the article´s main contributors stated the necessity to highlight and further explain the role of the colonial brazilians in the Invasion, in order to give a full NPOV scope of the conflict in question.
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As stated in the article, and in the talk page, Brazilian colonial forces had a predominant and decisive role in the invasion of Cayenne, comprising almost the entire ground forces and most of the naval forces in the conflict.
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I hate to enter into a discussion with one user on another's talkpage, but I was checking to see if XPTO responded to my statement above when I noticed this. I'll try to be brief. The English historiographical tradition is not
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If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes
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I can see that you have high quality knowledge about Portuguese History. Among many other contributions I appreciated your intervention in the battle of Montijo or the huge diversity of Portuguese military history issues.
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I contributed to wikipedia for the first time with a new article (Battle of Toro, 10 and 11 August, Hispanicultur). Your critical opinion about this article would be very important and useful to me. Can you help me?
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No like the ones the thousands of references users have provided over the years. Ah thanks for letting me know , you are tag-teaming with Ogre which is clearly against the rules , i'll be thinking of reporting
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License tagging for File:Emtrada do exercito del rey de Castella, governado por D. Ioam de Avstria, no reino de Portvgal, com sette mil cavallos, doze mil infantes e vinte pessas de artilharia... 1663 ou
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Hello Walrasiad! And what about Hispania? I'm fine with this designation of "Spain", and is also used in several medieval articles to differentiate it from the modern state of Spain. Are you ok with it?
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967:. The page of the above name is one of the several thousand articles lacking Sources that were tagged in October 2006. Can you help in finding good Sources for the facts in the article? Sincerely,
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File:Emtrada do exercito del rey de Castella, governado por D. Ioam de Avstria, no reino de Portvgal, com sette mil cavallos, doze mil infantes e vinte pessas de artilharia... 1663 ou 1670.jpg
1979:
Being that explained, i would like to ask you not to revert that edition withou a propper discussion, as it would be disrespectfull to my work and the work and debate of others before me.
935:, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Knowledge (XXG).
97:
to João Rodrígues Cabrilho. The latter name may have been the usbject's birth name, but he is best known to the English-speaking world under the former name. Per our naming guidelines (
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Correctness of usage is partially at least determined by consensus of usage. If the scholarly consensus says Iberia is "Spain" in the Middle Ages, we cannot say otherwise. My sources
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239:("Srnec" is my surname. It is Croatian, but I am Canadian. I can speak Spanish at an intermediate level but don't know Portuguese, which I nevertheless recognise as one of the most
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Hi there. I am glad that you have weighed in on this debate. With Ogre disappearing, and this militant EHT chap appearing, I was getting outnumbered. I agree with you 100%.
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XPTO, since you are a Wikipedian who works in articles related to Portuguese history I thought you would be interested in the present-discussion over changing the name of
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neither of which are part of the Iberian peninsula. I know you are trying to be precise, but you are correcting one imprecision with another imprecision.
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At last I ask you to approve the article (if you agree with it of course) - I don’t know how these things work. I would be very grateful. Thanks.
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or any other experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome, and we are looking forward to seeing you around!
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Are you defending that existed a portuguese throne before Afonso Henriques? Cordial salutations, and my sorries for my bad english,
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In the final part of our series on copyright, Moonriddengirl describes how to deal with copyright infringements on Knowledge (XXG)
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209:) for the entire peninsula now known as Iberia (which can be ambiguous w/o the qualifier "peninsula", thus making it clunky).
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Red hat ferrick this debate is NOT ABOUT NUMBERS is about references like it says Portugal belonged to Spain , etc...--
543:
Hello - Yes, I agree with the existence of a portuguese throne prior to Afonso I. His mother Teresa styled herself as
169:. I'm on my way to try and complete the expansion I began - not an easy task! If you have input I would welcome it.
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2129:(I don’t know how to work with templates and so I have/had to ask someone to do it for me). Thank you again! --
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I know you have grounds to disagree. All I can hope for here is to appeal to your aesthetic and usage sense.
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the separate kingdoms of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves were united as a single State under the title of
1948:, where you removed several pieces of text mentioning the colonial brazilian participation in the conflict.
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205:"Spain" is etymologically related to the original words (in more than one language, but including Latin
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on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a
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use "Spain" to refer to the entire peninsula, just like "Hispania", its etymological antecedent, did.
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Also, in a totally different subject, I believe we do have a problem with the fact that Srnec (
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547:, even the Pope, her sister, and the King of León referred to her as
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I´m writing you this message to discuss your edits on the article
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From the editors • "Military Historian of the Year" • Discussions
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LV (September 2010)
490:
When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious
587:
that to be honest, doesn't even interest me allot. Best regards.
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that focus on specific topics, nations, periods, and conflicts.
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PS: Can you answer me to my email (in English or Portuguese)?
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Your military history newsletter – Volume LVIII, December 2010
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1324:Talk:John VI of Portugal#Requested move
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2737:Military Historian of the Year
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2064:WereSpielChequers examines RfA
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2908:Hi. When you recently edited
2688:Hi. When you recently edited
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2306:: Issue LXVII, September 2011
2193:14:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
2178:00:49, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
1435:17:05, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
1076:23:17, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
464:" userright, allowing you to
363:22:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
347:22:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
331:17:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
313:17:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
299:02:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
237:01:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
190:20:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
156:02:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
136:17:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
93:PS: I reveresed your move of
3178:Military history WikiProject
3034:Military history WikiProject
2898:00:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
2869:Military history WikiProject
2777:Military history WikiProject
2768:00:52, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
2732:11:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
2596:Military history WikiProject
2410:: Issue LXVIII, October 2011
2401:02:59, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
1336:23:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
1297:22:06, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
1225:: Issue LVIII, December 2010
1176:23:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
977:08:15, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
952:17:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
905:20:48, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
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617:Military history WikiProject
167:Military history of Portugal
2960:: Issue LXXI, February 2012
2679:11:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
2567:Ian Rose goes to El Alamein
2514:: Issue LXIX, November 2011
2139:12:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
2102:23:28, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
1344:: Volume LVIX, January 2011
1322:or not. You can find it in
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1085:: Issue LVII, November 2010
773:: Issue LV (September 2010)
597:18:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
581:00:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
355:
352:Don't be ridiculous, EHT.
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180:. What can we do? See you!
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1946:Invasion of Cayenne (1809)
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695:We've developed a set of
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481:a small number of articles
357:The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick
325:The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick
293:The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick
3104:: Issue LXXII, March 2012
2787:: Issue LXX, January 2012
2202:: Issue LXVI, August 2011
1999:22:33, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
1931:00:27, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
1444:: Issue LX, February 2011
1192:A tag has been placed on
985:: Issue LVI, October 2010
706:, as well as a number of
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387:18:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
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1735:00:04, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
1644:: Issue LXII, April 2011
665:The project has several
485:Special:OldReviewedPages
279:12:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
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1836:: Issue LXIV, June 2011
1744:: Issue LXIII, May 2011
1635:05:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
1544:: Issue LXI, March 2011
646:WPMILHIST Announcements
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2848:Hchc's English Castles
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2741:Nominations for the "
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392:I suspect that this
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1320:João VI of Portugal
1316:John VI of Portugal
1185:Speedy deletion of
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814:Project news
783:Project news
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660:watchlist it
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406:— Preceding
372:
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