399:?) you might want to read the source again you quoted. While there won't be an official parliamentary investigation, Bosbach has announced that the interior commission will discuss the accident in a debate with minister Friedrich. This is clearly a political dimension that has been added to the event. And the Berlin state parliament will at least debate the accident on 15 April: "Auch im Abgeordnetenhaus soll das Unglück auf die Tagesordnung der nächsten Sitzung am 15. April, wird wohl im Rahmen des Punktes „Besondere Vorkommnisse“ besprochen, so der SPD-Abgeordnete Thomas Kleineidam." (Also in the House of Delegates, the accident shall be put on the agenda of the next session on 15 April, and will presumably be dealt with along the item of 'special incidents', said SPD MP T. Kleineidam.)
444:, and not by me as 212.23.103.66 implied. I have neither been pushing the interwiki argument in the German Afd nor have I cooperated with Excolis to "create" more relevance. And whether Bosbach's announcement will come true or not is also not relevant for the moment. It has been reported by reliable sources that a regular panel of the German federal parliament has shown interest in the case. And it has been confirmed today that the Berlin state parliament will in fact investigate the accident: "Helikopterabsturz wird Thema im Berliner Parlament" (Helicopter crash will become an issue in the Berlin Parliament)
262:. The event meets GNG because of international coverage and extended national media attention. Even the federal parliament of Germany will now debate this accident in a discussion about the structure of the federal police forces, so there may be a political aftermath. As to your other arguments, how is the fact that this happened during an exercise affecting its relevance? Train stations and ships are also common, and yet we have a plethora of articles about them.
1125:
Then you might want to change the definition of "general aviation" in the lead paragraph. Currently the list seems to be about private and corporate aircraft, while military aviation is excluded. But there's also no mention of other state agencies like police, so I thought the list wasn't suited for
746:
deserves to be on
Knowledge (XXG) due to the damage it caused on the station and objects around it, the reviews that were conducted into the crash investigation and the coverage it received around the world. This was just an ordinary police exercise that went wrong. There is no need to give it the
751:
less than an hour after the incident, but it took you almost a week to put this page up. It is now a long forgotten news story that does not need to be remembered anymore. Accidents in police exercises are common. Do you want me to put up all the incidences that have happened in
Australia with
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had no lasting effect on the NZ flight regulations either and nobody notable died in the accident. And yet the article was featured in "Did you know". Granted, this page had a full section on the investigation from the beginning but it still strikes me as bit strange that nobody even cared to
870:
It will not be discussed in the "landesparlament". The topic will be the poorly planned police exercise, not the crash in particular. Crash investigations are a task for the german BFU (air crash investigators), and prior to their expertise there won´t be any serious disussions since they´re
376:- a non-event according to WP. Also there are no "political repercussions" as user Bushranger stated, or even "parlamentarial debates", as user De728631 (the almost sole contributor) boasted. Quite to the contrary it was made very clear that there won´t be any parlamentarial investigations,
786:
So, let's recount the facts. Vauxhall: helo hits house, 2 dead, massive material damage, worldwide coverage, article not even prodded; Berlin: 2 helos collide, 1 dead, massive material damage on the tax payers' expense, worldwide coverage, political debates announced, article Afd'ed.
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is not a quantity argument, it's about quality of information aka in-depth analysis. World-wide news doesn't count as quality, only as a quantity for sensation, usually sensation for one day. There is no analysis of the accident in the article, because non does exist at present.
465:"Berlin state parliament" - that gave me a good chuckle. That´s nothing more than a town hall meeting. And your "reliable" source for the Bundestag is - *ta-daa* - aforementioned attention-whore Bosbach. You are deliberatly misleading the people here. Stop this travesty now and
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deserves a page due to its notability and issues that affected Kenya after the crash. This German crash does not deserve a page, due to its forgotten status, its common causes and not needing to make any changes to the current system. (i.e it fails
333:- In this case, notability seems clear; while helicopters do tend to fail at beating the air into submission fairly regularly, a collision, of police helicopters, with the political repercussions from it, adds up to this being a notable incident. -
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Furthermore users "De728631" sole intention for this article in EN:WP seems to be to bolster the german article, which is currently also under deletion discussen ("looky looky - even en:wp has it !!!1!11!") - IMHO a very appalling move.
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I won´t. Bosbach is the personification of annoyance and incompetence. My words are carefully chosen. And since this person utters smelly hot air only, "not liking the source" is no valid point as there is a lack of "source".
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Let me also quote from WP:EVENT: "It may take weeks or months to determine whether or not an event has a lasting effect. This does not, however, mean recent events with unproven lasting effect are automatically non-notable."
986:, both arguments are met but it's difficult to decide whether the in-depth coverage addresses the lasting effects requirements since no changes to German flight safety or police operations were mandated out of the crash.
607:- as per nomination. This is not a newspaper. Sad though it is, the death of the pilot is not notable, nor is the accident, unles some fundamental changes to helicopter operations result, which is highly unlikely.--
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to break the deadlock. That way we still have a record of the crash and the resulting damages. I don't think it even deserves a record on
Knowledge (XXG) however to please both parties we need to
582:... most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value ... whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable ...
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816:. This got a huge amount of press coverage; Google News returns 5300 results for "helicopter crash berlin"; all of the first 25 are about this incident. As was pointed out by
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in saying that this article isn't notable and needs to be deleted. Military incidents are very common and don't need a wikipedia page. You only need to give pages to notable
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423:) OnT.: In that very article it is very clearly stated "Eine parlamentarische Untersuchung des UnglĂĽcks ist im Bundestag oder im Abgeordnetenhaus bisher nicht geplant."
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coverage you have given it, due to the limited coverage and limited issues that eventuated from it. I'm in
Australia and I can tell you that I heard about the
427:. Nobody cares what Mr. Bosbach says. He is a well-known attention-whore and will speak even to microphone-dummies. That said, deletion is the only way to go.
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question the notability of this incident which was probably not even as widely reported back then as in today's globalised world ten years later.
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I think you misread your facts there. There have been many police helicopter crashes. This isn't the first police crash to get a wikipedia page.
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The problem with merging is that there are apparently only lists of aircraft accidents for either commercial or military operators; see
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Yes, I do feel a bit hounded. The remark "Die englische
Knowledge (XXG) hat sich dem Thema nun auch angenommen" was made by Excolis
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Merging could be a solution, but not in an article about commercial aircrafts (the article is about the crash of police helis). --
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which translates to "state parliament" in
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police? There may be a lot of info related to the crash online, but that still is not enough to prove its notability.
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First of all: This smells like hounding. Then, no "second guessing" necessary, since it is plain obvious. See
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pointless. But it can last a year or more until they publish their report. So it stays a non-event.
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Would you care to explain how this accident is any different from a commercial aircraft crash, e.g.
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I don't see what the problem is with that page. It looks like a good place to move our article to.
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Is a rare but
Effective media event of the accident between two police helicopters in Berlin. --
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421:"Die englische Knowledge (XXG) hat sich dem Thema nun auch angenommen" - "en:wp has it, too!!1!"
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Police or military, who cares. This article shouldn't be on wikipedia and needs to be deleted.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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913:) This article is a long lost incident that does not need to remembered. Why do we need it?
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As noted, the premise of the !vote is flawed, as this was not a military accident. And the
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that resides in the town hall, but the
Abgeordnetenhaus is something entirely different.
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It seems likely that changes to German police helicopter operations will result. -
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200:. Helicopter crashes are common, it was an exercise. Nobody notable killed.
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The arguments fall under two basic principals, the keep camp arguments for
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due to it's international coverage, and the delete camp's arguments under
890:. Worldwide press coverage. Very rarely police helicopters collision.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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This wasn't a military operation but a civil police exercise.
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air crashes. Knowledge (XXG) isn't all about the military.
425:("No investigation, neither in parliament nor in chamber!")
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on the german deletion debate (16:58, 22. Mär. 2013 (CET),
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List of accidents and incidents involving general aviation
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Thanks for giving me such a nice example to explain off.
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This attitude of yours may get you blocked over here.
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517:, please strike them. And they sound like a case of
770:brushoff of that being pointed out doesn't help. -
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1078:Category:Lists of aviation accidents and incidents
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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302:died doesn't mean that the event isn't notable.
1036:As we are currently (a deadlock), I suggest we
846:It's still not enough to prove its notability.
982:. Ultimately, I think under the arguments of
211:list of Aviation-related deletion discussions
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1048:otherwise more debates will come out of it.
352:Note: This debate has been included in the
239:Note: This debate has been included in the
226:list of Germany-related deletion discussions
224:Note: This debate has been included in the
209:Note: This debate has been included in the
1010:needs time and only if it turned out that
820:, this will be investigated by the Berlin
395:Instead of second-guessing my intentions (
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513:212, your comments about Bosbach violate
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495:. You might have been thinking of the
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298:- Quite notable. Just because nobody
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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1018:needed standards for inclusion in
906:2012 Kenya Police helicopter crash
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929:1993 Auckland mid-air collision
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744:2013 Vauxhall helicopter crash
716:2013 Vauxhall helicopter crash
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63:2013 Berlin helicopter crash
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519:your not liking the source
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493:Abgeordnetenhaus of Berlin
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1158:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
828:and appears to survive
378:e.g. here, on german.
1097:. Could that fit?--
447:Berliner Morgenpost
1042:Aircrashes in 2013
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849:— Preceding
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824:. Survives
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911:WP:Aircrash
768:WP:WHOCARES
156:free images
1113:Springyboy
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1003:WP:INDEPTH
976:WP:LASTING
972:WP:INDEPTH
915:Springyboy
855:Springyboy
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674:Springyboy
670:commercial
449:, 24 March
250:...William
245:...William
230:...William
215:...William
202:WP:NOTNEWS
1163:talk page
1126:merging.
358:• Gene93k
321:RiverClan
54:Lankiveil
37:talk page
1165:or in a
1128:De728631
1082:De728631
934:De728631
863:contribs
851:unsigned
830:WP:EVENT
789:De728631
735:contribs
727:De728631
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688:De728631
662:Petebutt
637:Source?
609:Petebutt
584:- here:
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501:De728631
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403:De728631
281:De728631
264:De728631
194:WP:EVENT
115:View log
39:or in a
1099:Ben Ben
1064:Ben Ben
1024:Ben Ben
1000:Comment
968:Comment
955:Coffins
666:William
590:Ben Ben
579:Delete.
300:notable
162:WPÂ refs
150:scholar
88:protect
83:history
892:NickSt
826:WP:GNG
658:Delete
605:Delete
515:WP:BLP
489:Länder
467:delete
374:Delete
198:WP:GNG
192:Fails
134:Google
92:delete
1046:Merge
1040:into
1038:Merge
177:JSTOR
138:books
122:Stats
109:views
101:watch
97:links
16:<
1132:talk
1117:talk
1103:talk
1086:talk
1068:talk
1054:talk
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1022:. --
989:Mkdw
978:and
959:talk
951:Keep
938:talk
927:The
919:talk
896:talk
888:Keep
877:talk
859:talk
838:talk
814:Keep
793:talk
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692:talk
678:talk
664:and
643:talk
613:talk
594:talk
588:. --
570:talk
544:talk
521:. -
505:talk
475:talk
469:it.
457:talk
433:talk
417:here
407:talk
387:talk
362:talk
331:Keep
296:Keep
285:talk
268:talk
260:Keep
196:and
170:FENS
144:news
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