Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/2017 NY Times Square attack

2534:- Sorry, but the "keeps" here are all still blowing around in the winds of the moment. There's no concrete proof at this time that this was a deliberate attack, just a lot of speculation, rumors and partial information. Calling this an "attack" in order to justify having an article about it is vastly premature, and the media coverage is already beginning to fade away. To the closer: the "delete" !voters have all cited specific Knowledge (XXG) policies for why this shouldn't be an article, while the "keeps" all boil down to "it's a news story, so we should have an article" which is part of no policy that I'm aware of. 2703:(above, I voted delete) This news hasn't gathered "international attention". It was briefly mentioned on a few news channel when it happened as "suspected act of terrorism". Later there was another passing reference that it wasn't considered as an act of terrorism anymore, and investigation is going on. That's all. Indian media has already forgotten it. Also, the article has a lot of content now, it is well sourced, and in encyclopaedic tone. But it still is a road accident (tragic one though). I don't think it is notable. It will be all forgotten in two months. Not notable event. 1282:). If it's unique, particularly devastating, etc. then it's only more notable in the sense that those sorts of events are more likely to receive the necessary coverage. Knowledge (XXG) is supposed to be a lagging indicator of significance, so there's (or there's supposed to be, anyway) a pretty high bar for covering something that has not existed long enough to demonstrate lasting significance (i.e. Knowledge (XXG) should not be among the first media to cover a subject). passing that bar would mean there's practically no chance that it won't receive lasting coverage. — 3371:

make it worthy of deletion. Two, this person was severely mentally ill, and was denied psychiatric help, which is a major, noteworthy issue in the United States, which will likely lead to highly notable fallout as a result of this incident. Three, as others have noted, this can apply under pedestrian safety in Times Square. And, finally, the DWI part is also noteworthy, and, though the situation itself may fall under WP:NOTNEWS, the resulting fallout likely won't, and will lead to significant changes.

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time investigations and reliable sources demonstrate that it was, the article will be updated, or rewritten with that perspective. Even if the crash was voluntary, it could be a crime of another type like a revenge, honor crime or an incident because of psychosis or other causes producing delusion and hallucinations... When we don't know yet and can only speculate like I just did, we should simply summarize what sources say and let the reader infer. —

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husbands, husbands kill wives, domestic violence ends up in death - no article. We're not the police blotter, we're not "The News in Review", we're an encyclopedia, which is why we have notability requirements. Again, not a single person who wants to keep the article has given a Knowledge (XXG)-policy based reason for doing so, it's all "news coverage", which is necessary, but not sufficient.

81: 2394: 937: 1677:. And it would better suit the "delete for now" bunch to track when (or if) it becomes noteworthy enough. Can't do that if the Keepers are all writing individually in Notepad/TextEdit/Whatever, and it's hard to want to write anything from scratch if they think a Deletionist will delete it for being too recently deleted already. Once it's been burned 3209:

had more coverage could've been notable, but that's a recent event in which I would say that WP:NOTNEWS would apply, this event has been covered by various different sources long after the vthe initial attack.) this event clearly isn't simply "a news story", it's now a part of history with plenty of coverage. --

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minarets. So many more so, that the television-endorsed brand of terror simply stopped being scary. The druggie lunatic became a hokey caricature, progressively cornier from the 1970s on and then virtually overshadowed by the post-9/11 transmissions of doom and anxiety about the new constant threat (which

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Since the Internet conquered television, we can see that many pockets do see the relative value in remaining vigilant about our mental health and appreciate the levels to which someone can sink through the cracks if left unwell and ignored, but to today's mainstream horror, mystery and suspense fans,

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Comment: the argument that "Anything that looks like an obvious terrorist-style attack should be kept. ", backed up by a discussion of the evidence , would violate the principles of NPOV, WP:OR, and WP:V. Something that "looks like" something that is clearly notable, but none the less is not, does

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for a few reasons; one, this was a large-scale attempted murder spree, which thankfully only resulted in one death in this particular case. There are a number of mass shootings that end up being posted on Knowledge (XXG), which are not deleted per WP:NOTNEWS. The fact that it was vehicular should not

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only applies if something has very low and localised coverage, (one can think of Alexandr "Russian Deadpool" Karpakov's shooting of girlfriend while on drugs, the leader of a non-notable Feminist & "Skeptic" (Atheist) group shooting someone out of paranoia, a Non-Hispanic Russian immigrant, if it

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True, we do not wait for a subject to become notable. There is no dispute that this incident has received significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject, but what is in question is the "enduring notability" of the incident, and whether coverage is in-depth and not in passing, per

2373:

This is not a good keep reason. If the incident leads to a redesign of Times Square, then it would warrant a mention in the Times Square (or a Redesign of Times Square article if the redesign is extensive). However, we won't know that for a long time, years perhaps. In the meantime, all we'll have is

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One dead isn't a lot, but twenty injuries is a few. The famous setting gives it some oomph, and there are plenty of rhetorical questions for news outlets to ponder when it comes to crazy sailors. Was he secretly crazy when he enlisted, did long hours at sea cause the voices, should society do more to

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does not apply to breaking news stories as far as I can tell. That this story is currently worldwide news is making it potentially notable (for now), simply because we don't know the full picture. (Here in the UK we're currently hearing it might have been a drunk driver, and a terribly sad incident.)

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Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled. For every 1 person killed in a motor vehicle crash, 8 people were hospitalized and 100 people were treated and released from the ED. But I don't that having 2-3

1174:

Sorry, but not true. Sad to say, but a fatality in a car crash does not make it notable, since there are something like 30,000 fatal car crashes every year. The 22 injured is more unusual, but is simply because it took place in a very crowded area and not on a highway. So far, there's nothing about

3334:

for two reasons. First, as noted above, this is a deliberate attack. It may or may not be terrorist, but it certainly was no accident. Secondly, this attack is proving up to be a wake-up call for pedestrian safety. In NYC, there's a lot of analysis and thinking going on as to how this happened, what

1273:

FWIW I think it's a mistake to take this in a direction of debating what sorts of accidents/contexts are significant or unique, and which are not. Ultimately, the circumstances, uniqueness, etc. don't matter to whether this is kept or not. All that matters is that it receives significant coverage in

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I feel it implies a reluctance to fear something familiar. For the most part in the English world, the dark cloud of jihadism and honour killings tend to be seen as something seeping in from outside, something that can be blown back if enough light is shone upon it. The dark cloud of drug abuse and

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The pre-trial proceedings will be covered, too. If he pleads not guilty, the trial will almost certainly be multiday. Then there's a verdict. Whatever it is, there'll be analysis. Maybe a sentencing or institutionalizing hearing next. Plenty of opportunity in prison or the bin for follow-ups. There

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This nomination is dealing with a moving target, and the notability of the incident is becoming clearer as coverage of the incident is proving to be more intense and more sustained that it would have been if it was a run of the mill DUI. Observing this is not "blowing with the winds of the moment".

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Looks about the same to me, discounting the rampant speculation about whether and how the intent could somehow be linked to terrorism. In Masood's case, it ultimately couldn't, rendering much of that "information" pure noise. Since this suspect's still alive, it makes sense for the news to exercise

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Except it's not a violation of WP:NOTNEWS. NOTNEWS doesn't mean you get to just delete anything discussed in the news no matter how much attention it gets. Most of the delete votes essentially amount to "I don't think this is important and people really shouldn't be giving it so much attention". Of

1924:

So what you're saying is this article is notable because it's located in a more densely populated area as opposed to a rural highway somewhere. However, a car crash in a city will naturally have more news articles about it than a comparable car crash in the country, precisely since the car crash in

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In contrast who those who claimed that "enduring notability" has already attached after only 2 days of media coverage, there is already a dearth of media articles dated today, an indication that the incident is slipping back into the background, and will probably only be mentioned again when Rojas

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A few issues with this comment: terrorism is politicaly motivated, and secondly, we must report what sources say. When reliable sources don't clearly indicate it is terrorism, classifying the incident as such would be original research, which Knowledge (XXG) must avoid doing. Of course, if over

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Anything that looks like an obvious terrorist-style attack should be kept. As the driver was able to drive perfectly safely all the way to Times Square before executing his brazen attack, it is completely obvious and easily proven that his maneuver was not caused by any drugs, mechanical failure,

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says we should not rush to create articles on breaking news events, it also says we should not rush to delete articles on breaking news events, as a clearer picture about the subject's notability will emerge with time. In this case, as time has passed, it has become clear that this was not just a

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both advise waiting a day or two for accurate news stories, and not rushing to create content. However, unless we invoke speedily delete, or push editors towards WikiNews (I see nothing there yet!), we can't stop this happening. Therefore, we should wait for the AfD period to expire, during which

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But the problems remained, and thousands more have been killed by followers of the disembodied voices coming from inside their own heads and amplified through stress and chemicals than have been killed by those who listened to the voices coming from the Quran and amplified through repetition and

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It's a regular drunk driving car crash. It was tragic, yes, but there was no more malicious intent behind it than a person who even decides to drive while drunk. There are 10,000 deaths like this every year, yet we don't include articles for them all. At best it mentions a passing mention in the

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murder is intentional (that's what separates it from manslaughter), but not every murder is notable and gets an article on Knowledge (XXG). People go off their meds and push other people to their death from a subway platform. There's news coverage, but it ain't notable, no article. Wives kill

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means that if an event has been covered repeadetly from different angles, and my different "reliable" news sources that it becomes notable enough in itself, several news articles have been written about the perpetrator, and the one dead-victim alone, various interviews with her father, and his

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murders don't get news coverage that's anything like this. In any case, it's irrelevant whether it's a murder or an attack—the only thing that matters is the attention received by the event, reflected by coverage in reliable sources. If some guy got a flat tire and it got this level of media

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We're not discussing whether attack should be used in the title or within the article, we are discussing its use in this deletion discussion, so whether one considers it a loaded term, with an implication of something else is irrelevant. The term was accurate, as it was used in this

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is not a keep rationale, as it's canceled out by the immediately preceding section and has no actual connection to the subject (i.e. it applies to anything that just happened). And as usual, no prejudice against recreation (even undeletion) if there's sustained coverage. But we're

3688: 3565: 404:. Local auhorities currently consider it as an "accident", and not as an attack. If investigation reveals something, the article can be created again. But wikipedia must not label accidents as attacks or acts of terrorism. I am also going to perform a bold move of the page. — 238:. This event occurred today in a high-profile location in New York City; however, it is quite presumptuous to call it an "attack" or "terrorism" (note the category on the article), and indeed it would appear that the local authorities currently consider it to be an accident ( 1955:

I see your point. But the road is less densely populated, which makes the deaths more likely to be premeditated murders in the case of Old Salisbury Rd. I think we should just wait a week or so (the length of the AFD) to determine whether this is still notable afterward.

2734:(also ! voted delete above): Multiple delete !votes are saying that there is no way this is an accident. None of the news articles did say it was an accident, and none of the delete !votes said as much. But it's not an attack either, just a drug induced crash. 2301:

does. All the sources basically say that there was a driver under the influence, and while under the influence, he ran over pedestrians in a particularly high-traffic place. However, if there had been a strictly terrorist intent, this would obviously be kept.

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You have a reasonable argument. As it was before, the article didn't have enough to survive, but I was on the fence. I think it does now, even if NOTNEWS makes my support shaky. It'll be worth checking back in a few weeks. For now though, I am a

1145:– I would like to say that there is little that is typical about this incident. One person lost her life and 22 people were injured. There are more casualties in this incident than there are in a typical car accident. I find that to be notable. 368:

but let it run the full week to see if notability emerges. Even though there there is 1 dead and over 20 injured, and it was in Times Square, news accounts are reporting that the driver was either on drugs or drunk, and has a record of DWI.

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voices, or suicide by cop. It was a planned, calculated mass attack in exactly the same motive as Islamist terrorists. There needs to be a category for attacks which are terrorist in method but lack proof of a link to a political motive.

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content which would benefit another Wiki if they were alerted to it, rather than simply losing all that useful content at the end of RfD discussions here. Sounds like a dead duck though, thanks to Knowledge (XXG)'s content licencing.

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I came to Knowledge (XXG) to read on this. If deleted, it would have be bad to human knowledge. This article meets Knowledge (XXG) regulations by having widespread coverage not only nationally in the USA but also in other countries.

2517:- I was initially leaning toward delete when I first came across this Afd a couple of days ago, but additional developments and the resulting continuing media coverage by reliable sources do grant this incident lasting notability.-- 2200:

As these are always lacking at this point, even when Muslims do it. As of now, there are plenty of stories from various major outlets in the last two hours about ongoing investigations. I'd say that counts as "off to a good start".

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come from news sources. Formatting, contextualizing and paraphrasing them into content takes time and effort. An online draft would at least let those who work on developing high-profile broad daylight crowd-ramming articles work

2662:. Police were still treating this as an accident at that time, the media was reporting on it as a likely accident and possible DUI, and there was no assurance that this incident would have enduring notability. However, just as 2621:

recommends waiting a few days before nominating an article for deletion. However, the coverage this incident has received is in-depth, is no longer just in passing, and it has become clear that this incident does have enduring

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We don't know if it was an accident. If we just keep the article for 7 days, as it's usual, the article might be notable or will be deleted. And to your question: no, the article shouldn't be moved before this discussion is

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before I moved it) duplicates the subject of this article. Since that article has the same subject as the one under discussion here, I would like to procedurally nominate it too and include it as part of this discussion.

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obviously significant that people are ok using a crystal ball, and what's at issue here is whether this is one of those scenarios when we're pretty sure it will receive continuing coverage (putting aside crystalball). —

2644:, there is no way in hell that "enduring notability" can have attached to it. The plain fact is that the article should never have been created in the first place, and should have been immediately speedied when it was. 2594:, and if there's any doubt about the subject's notability, deletion is the proper course of action. Again, "keep" !voters have failed to cite a single Knowledge (XXG) policy to support their !votes, so they amount to 2853:

We're discussing whether to delete an article where !keep voters are claiming it's an "attack" and therefore it's notable. That's not necessarily true. I think BMK explained it well in the comment below mine.

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it's Islamic terrorism or nothing. And in a way I can't blame them, because it's easier to get invested in a story that leads to logical conclusion than an angle that just drags, and America is conceivably

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Struck for now. Seems like this has several stories spinning off from it that give a pretty good indication of continuing coverage. Not quite at keep yet, but enough doubt in my mind to strike my delete. —

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is irrelevant here. We're not discussing whether the page should be moved back to a title with the word "attack" in it, and whether we call it an "attack" is not relevant to whether the article is kept.--

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I also can't see the relevance. Various voters are calling it various things here, none of which should be taken to mean they want these words in the title. Is there a specific piece of that policy that

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is not a keep rationale. It's canceled out by its immediately preceding section and has no actual connection to the subject (i.e. it applies to anything that just happened). And yes, making a claim of

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The nominator (KuyaBriBri) said it was "an accident" in justifying the deletion nomination. But maybe that was before there was before there was information about the deliberate nature of this attack.

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Knowledge (XXG) considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion.

3778:. Hence, there is no evidence of continued coverage (there is not evidence of continued coverage until there is). There are exceptions to the rule -- effectively a pragmatic IAR -- when an event is 3088:

changing my iVote for several reasons; struck my delete vote near top of page. one reason is that media coverage on a scale that confers notability. To me, this looked like tragic but simple

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All road accidents are notable for being reported in the news. Therefore, this is not particularly notable. (Yeah, kind of self-defeating and circular, but that is what WP:NOTNEWS is about.)

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At 66.2 kilobytes, I don't think the Times Square article is very large. All we need to do is add a sentence there about the crash, or even a paragraph; it can be done without going into a

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Under what Knowledge (XXG) policy of "notability"? Please cite something specific, and don't simply wave your hands and say that news coverage makes it notable, that's not how we operate.

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Yeah, but this begs the question, why can't it not be mentioned on the main article for Times Square? Why does it need its own article specifically? That is the issue being discussed here.

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If a guy tried to kill 21 people on a rural highway, that'd be notable, too. News organizations aren't tethered to their headquarters. Even in 1988, they had networks capable of reaching

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Of course. Don't think we would've been having this discussion if it was a religiously-motivated incident. Is this meant to imply that the perpetrator behind this one was motiveless?

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schizophrenia is a Western staple of modern life, as has been since before we were born. Our eyes adjusted to our surroundings and our screens until many stopped seeing the problems.

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be determined at this time. Look forward a few months from now and tell me if there is lasting coverage. We don't wait for articles to be notable: they either are or they are not.

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The difference here is that there's not as much information about the car crash as during the London attacks, or during other attacks where this was done with a terrorist intent.

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But during that period, incident that is considered to be an accident for now; wikipedia will be stating it is an attack. I think it should be renamed, and then mentioned here.

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I'm saying the news will apply that standard, and that'll provide us with our enduring coverage and in-depth analysis standards. The "scourge" of synthetic marijuana is also a

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cultural, historical, governmental, societal, and/or global impact and with lasting effects. Our druggie driver's road rash will never achieve these feats mentioned above. —

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The preliminary evidence suggests that it was a drunk driving, not intentional. However, the definite cause is yet to be determined. And no , move to wikinews doesnt exist.

3270: 1775: 157: 3103:; the incident has sparked a round of interest in the security of pedestrians in Times Square, and in other crowded New York pedestrian areas and sidewalks, with Mayor 2784:

attack, whereas "crash" says what it really was. It doesn't matter what the dictionary definition is; if a word provides an implication of something else, then it is a

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This is indeed a tragedy, but it's not encyclopedic, certainly at this point and based on the sources available. I'm not even sure the incident merits a mention in the

242: 3664: 3644: 130: 125: 3624: 3340: 2671:, editors can't know for certain whether an event will have further coverage or not, but just because an event occurred recently does not mean it is not-notable.-- 134: 1650:

Since all the content came from news sources, it will all be available should it need to be reconstructed. Given that, there is no need to save it as a draft.

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So why not redirect to Times Square with a mention there regarding security? That bit appears notable, the car crash/person who committed the crime does not (

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routine DUI or a routine car accident. The incident has received sustained coverage over three days, with no sign of that coverage ending any time soon. Per

1717: 1512: 117: 3010:. The massive media coverage and unusual circumstances, including the high-profile location and the large number of victims, clearly make this notable. — 2074:. It's clearly notable based on the sources. (A "road accident" is notable or not depending on how much attention it gets—it has nothing to with whether 965:

with information added to the article. I believe that it is notable due to the amount of people injured or killed, as well as the scene of the incident.

775:, but there really isn't any content to merge it with and plus I'm not sure if the later article is notable either. Either way this shouldn't stay here. 2553:

As far as whether it was a deliberate attack, Rojas has been charged with second degree murder, so if it goes to trial, that can be sorted out there.--

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I never said that it was the individual's intent that makes it notable. It is whether the coverage of an event is significant and not in passing, per

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This one is notable for (allegedly) being a murder and mass attempted murder in an unusually public space. There's an obvious difference between a

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if there were a speedy criterion ,it would apply,. This is not even remotely encyclopediaworthy, and is exactly what NOT NEWS is meant to keep out.

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It sounded like terrorism, the location is a hot target, everyone wants to be the first to write about it.... but as the excitement fades is it

1505:- an unfortunate incident, but I doubt very much it will prove to have any lasting note. It's already fading from the news by this evening. -- 1042:

A major accident resulting in numerous injuries in Times Square should, at the very least, be noted in the article specific to Times Square. --

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AFAIK it's not explicitly prohibited but it's probably not a good idea either. If consensus is to keep then I think a move would be in order. —

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despite this AfD because it is not clear whether this was an intentional attack or an accident. I apologize if this has caused any confusion.

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Unfortunate and tragic though it was, the fact that it wasn't terrorism related means it is unlikely to stay in the news on its own steam. --

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applies, and remove it if appropriate so to do. Later opinions in this AfD thread may well end up bearing more weight than the earliest ones.

239: 1809:. I think as it unfolded and was investigated it was generating "buzz" but now will fade away as just another tragic vehicular manslaughter. 3234: 3210: 3061: 2092:

We're not !voting delete because we "personally think it should be considered important", we're !voting delete because it's a violation of

289:? I think it might be better to just have the article the next 7 days. If it doesn't become notable in one week, we can still delete it.-- 219: 3115: 2753: 1867: 186: 3242: 3336: 2397:

Note: I've added the mentions of possible changes to the main article about Times Square. My edit had a passing mention of the event.

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Second-degree murder doesn't mean manslaughter. Third-degree used to. Second-degree is no accident, just more spontaneous than first.

1565: 888: 772: 711: 1903: 17: 1128:. Not a notable event until something happens (if anything0 to make it notable. Until then, it's just a garden-variety car-crash. 631: 504: 331: 626:

If the tag stays there for seven days, an administrator will check the article and delete it if he or she agrees with your reason.

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If the tag stays there for seven days, an administrator will check the article and delete it if he or she agrees with your reason.

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If the tag stays there for seven days, an administrator will check the article and delete it if he or she agrees with your reason.

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as soon as an event unfolds, yet there is nothing that precludes us from keeping the article for another day or two to determine

805: 609: 121: 3712:- Keep voting are embarrassingly unconvincing; basically, "the incident looks bad, we should keep it". Ensuring coverage cannot 1907: 1051: 1034:. If, either now or in the future, a consensus is reached that this topic does not meet notability guidelines, I would support 3344: 2356: 1422:? If it has now been determined, of course, I might then be agreeing with the first half of that assertion. What we need is a 3585:

are still victims left with potential recovery stories, too. Far less done and over with than when everyone dies at the end.

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Not sure if I should move the page/rename article while it is being discussed here. Requesting help regarding that issue. —

1161: 981: 743: 2755:. Attack just means that it was intentional. There does not have to be any terrorist connection for it to be an attack.-- 2231:. Too many sources have too much info exclusively focusing on that particular event, its motivations and repercussions. 176: 3896: 1527:

help, should government do more to monitor, etc. Give it a week, and if it's still "local man crashes car", delete it.

40: 3089: 1706: 1506: 884: 845: 580: 113: 91: 70: 2707:. Events that are notable for an encyclopedia are those that have caused, impacted, or were a major contributor to - 1543:

You're applying a standard appropriate for what is newsworthy to an encyclopedia article. This is not a news outlet.

800:. Events that are notable for an encyclopedia are those that have caused, impacted, or were a major contributor to - 3721: 3161:

weight to a rare violent event. In this case, it is also true that the Times Square article is already very large.

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for now. I would normally vote !keep on articles like this, but the article is an especially flagrant violation of

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cultural, historical, governmental, societal, and/or global impact and with lasting effects. Examples would be the

583:. It depends on the investigation. If the investigation shows it's irrelevant, we can just delete it in one week.-- 226: 3738: 3157:

for the same reason that I oppose redirecting school shootings to the article on the school, i.e., that it gives

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as "authorities were quick to reassure the public ... that the incident was a car crash and not terror-related" (

809: 780: 3096: 1327: 3238: 3214: 3144: 3065: 2361: 1006: 3775: 3746: 2668: 2354: 1031: 684:. While changing an !vote is definitely allowed, using strikethrough is the preferred method of doing so, per 3700: 3573: 3537: 3033: 2927: 2715: 2649: 2617:. In most cases, this can only be properly assessed a few days after the event at the soonest, which is why 2603: 2539: 1871: 1655: 1548: 1180: 1133: 552: 469:

It's unclear whether the incident is a terror attack, though initial speculation was that it was accidental.

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TOOSOON. This may become notable as things unfold, but as stated in the nomation, this falls under NOTNEWS.

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military veteranhood, and criminal records made public. This story has evolved beyond the mere mass-attack.

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/05/19/times-square-accident-vehicle-rams-charges-filed/101868394/#

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Like this newsworthy event. Although tragic (and covered by national media), it probably doesn't pass the

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newsworthy events don't qualify, giving routine news for an example. This happens to be newsworthy, but

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relative restraint, since solid answers will be forthcoming at trial and can be reported then instead.

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This is a deliberate attack as per the perpetrator. It generated far too much coverage to be ignored.

3179:. I already added the stuff about bollards, which is probably the only lasting impact of this impact. 3095:

Even though this coverage will eventually fade, the notability conferred by this level of coverage is

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Too soon for the article namespace, but don't want to lose valuable content in case this is notable.

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We should wait some time, like others said. If it goes away then, then we should maybe delete it.

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closer to wrapping up the War on Terror than going anywhere in particular with the War on Drugs.

3737:, and do note that it is routine for editors to create articles on breaking news stories such as 3696: 3569: 3533: 3394: 3029: 2923: 2645: 2599: 2535: 2028: 1651: 1562: 1544: 1176: 1129: 908: 870: 576: 518: 3767: 3734: 3158: 3136: 2886: 2704: 2618: 1275: 1072: 1064: 1019: 813: 797: 245: 2780:—that is true but the implications of using the word "attack" nowadays is that the crash was a 1418:

violation of a policy if you then say the probability of it passing a policy on notability has

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

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saying that the city will review how to better secure these areas and media demanding more

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times over average people hospitalized is enough to make it important for Knowledge (XXG).--

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I just checked, it is allowed to move articles during an AfD. Better than soreading hoaxes.

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New information has been realeased that this was a murder and that he did it on purpose

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Police are treating this as an attack and reliable sources are calling this an attack

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from Knowledge (XXG). I have struck out my earlier opinion as this is now clearly

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topic; this might become the thing lawmakers point to most. Might not. Let's see.

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etc.) Thus, the notability of this attack is likely to carry on into the future.

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on whether a way ought to be found to allow templating of an article with good,

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this article for the next 7 days, as it is usual. It might be relevant, just as

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I'm sorry, but that is a totally ridiculous assessment. The incident occurred

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Thanks for weighing in. I hope the delete voters will reflect on your comment.

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No one said it was an accident. A crash is not the same thing as an accident.

2393: 2353:. There are some indications this might lead to some changes in Times Square. 2163:

event article would be a violation, especially the post-Knowledge (XXG) ones.

2466:. Significant international news coverage and continuing coverage nationally. 3247: 2915:

But even if it was intentional, that does not necessarily make it notable.

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reliable sources independent of the subject over a period of time (etc. per

2940:, and the coverage of this incident is significant and is not in passing.-- 1225:

International travel, road crash, pedestrian safety, country road condition

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prevented it from being worse, and how to mitigate it in the future. (See

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There does not have to be any terrorist connection for it to be an attack

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Yeah, the article probably should not have been created when it was, per

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make casting a Bronx Navy veteran in the monster's role seem tasteless).

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comes to trial, or in the context of adding more safety features to TS.

1730:'Tis for legitimate barristers to decide that. For now, police say he 3265:: can everybody now acknowledge that this was not an accident, but a 244:). This is an unfortunate, tragic event, but it does not rise to the 3568:

about banning cars from Times Square in response to the attack.--

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Same reason Khalid Masood's rampage can't be solely mentioned at

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Thank you. I was about to do that but you beat me to the punch. —

812:, and other such significant events. This article not only fails 3885:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.

1063:- Not yet indication of sustained coverage necessary to satisfy 2441:. According to the perpetrator the act was deliberate and thus 3691:, indicating the notability of the event. If it was a genuine 75: 2449:

Being an attack the article about the incident must be kept.

2325:

list of United States of America-related deletion discussions

2159:. If newsworthiness itself was grounds for disqualification, 3868:- clearly notable. Good sourcing. Got attention worldwide.-- 933:

Was just about to add the AfD tag, but you beat me to that.

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About that, people do say the stupidest things while drunk.

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Deadly Times Square attack highlights NYC pedestrian safety

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decide what is important, not our individual preferences.

612:) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this 3550:

Things inevitably receive less attention as time passes.

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All right, to resolve a bit of confusion: the article at

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The not guilty verdict in that case actually made them

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this incident was a car attack, not a car accident. -

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Knowledge (XXG):How to delete a page#Proposed deletion

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Knowledge (XXG):How to delete a page#Proposed deletion

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Knowledge (XXG):How to delete a page#Proposed deletion

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no longer applies and that his is a notable event. --

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has been met by means of the current event template.

3511:, which is a perfectly good rationale for deletion. 3509:

no long term societal impact or lasting significance

2358:If this happens then it would probably be notable. 225: 2567:We don't do articles and wait for the subject to 1001:to like a list of auto accidents or something. - 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 3899:). No further edits should be made to this page. 624: 497: 467: 324: 1326:time we will all be able to determine whether 848:as well, for the same reasons presented here. 2374:an article about a single tragic incident. -- 1776:list of New York-related deletion discussions 8: 3663:Note: This debate has been included in the 3643:Note: This debate has been included in the 3623:Note: This debate has been included in the 3099:. My 2nd reason is the one pointed out by 2323:Note: This debate has been included in the 1774:Note: This debate has been included in the 3665:list of Events-related deletion discussions 3645:list of Events-related deletion discussions 771:. I would be tempted to propose a merge to 3662: 3642: 3625:list of Crime-related deletion discussions 3622: 3218: 3069: 3050:how we (here at Knowledge (XXG)) operate, 2322: 2078:think it should be considered important.) 1773: 1251:Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 680:'s original !vote was to delete, and then 1925:the city is closer to more news sources. 1753:. A nutter with a car who wanted to die. 1414:Just a comment: How can something be an 1351:) so the event does not appear notable. 1212: 86:Long story short: the article has been 3508: 2967:attention, that would be notable too. 2777: 2588:We are not a news services, we are an 2290: 90:from "2017 NY Times Square attack" to 2873:has to do with deletion discussions? 2585:notable, an article can be written. 1986:Alright, never mind my comment then. 1385:since its probability of passing the 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 1032:the persistence of the news coverage 934: 2885:Oh I thought we were talking about 2817:Yeah, but it's not irrelevant. See 1805:? It is still on the front page of 1306:It is too soon to know the details, 844:deleted, we should probably delete 712:another article on this also exists 2835:This is a deletion discussion, so 1022:. There is often a rush to invoke 889:2017 Times Square vehicular attack 773:2017 Times Square vehicular attack 24: 2985:? Decapitalizing? Unhyphenating? 2297:the same way that something like 2147:Exactly. All that policy says is 1974:premeditated murders. Fixed now. 2695: 2392: 1461:struck part of original comment 935: 875: 806:Assassination of John F. Kennedy 734: 426: 79: 3695:it would have stopped by now.-- 3604:not belong in an encyclopedia. 1702:- 'Twas a traffic accident. – 1247:"Motor Vehicle Crash Injuries" 382:changing iVote to k; see below 246:notability criteria for events 1: 2182:All the criteria except one, 744:2017 NY Times Square incident 285:Wouldn't it be better with a 3564:Story in the New York Times 2038:Transfer content to WikiNews 1175:this event which is unique. 997:. I would also be open to a 742:I have moved the article to 2981:Anybody feel like deleting 2573:notable, we do articles on 1604:) 07:01, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 885:2017 Times Square car crash 846:2017 Times Square car crash 581:Quebec City mosque shooting 402:Knowledge (XXG) is not news 380:) 19:12, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 236:Knowledge (XXG) is not news 114:2017 Times Square car crash 92:2017 Times Square car crash 71:2017 NY Times Square attack 3916: 3741:, even though determining 2289:What NOTNEWS says is that 2117:course, we should let the 1866:as notable road accident. 548:requesting your opinion. — 3739:2017 Melbourne car attack 3204:, it's a relevant event, 1389:has yet to be determined. 3888:Please do not modify it. 3878:15:58, 25 May 2017 (UTC) 3858:09:52, 25 May 2017 (UTC) 3822:07:51, 25 May 2017 (UTC) 3793:00:20, 25 May 2017 (UTC) 3759:21:02, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3726:20:17, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3705:17:02, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3677:23:41, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3657:18:19, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3637:18:19, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3616:17:54, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3593:06:56, 25 May 2017 (UTC) 3578:16:57, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3560:01:44, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3542:17:21, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3521:23:59, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3499:17:16, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3476:06:31, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3459:03:50, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3442:13:21, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 3421:03:51, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 3399:03:34, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 3381:02:55, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 3363:18:17, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3323:03:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 3303:18:32, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3289:18:13, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3256:00:46, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 3225:15:39, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3189:14:38, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3177:coatrack about the crash 3171:13:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3149:13:14, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3127:10:40, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3076:15:45, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3038:04:40, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3020:04:27, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2993:01:06, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 2977:05:42, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2950:05:22, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2932:04:47, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2899:03:55, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 2881:01:03, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 2864:14:41, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2849:06:35, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2831:05:38, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2813:05:10, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2798:04:44, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2788:and should not be used. 2765:03:02, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2744:01:20, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2725:23:22, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2681:05:10, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2654:04:02, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2632:03:02, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2608:02:26, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2563:00:12, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2544:22:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2527:21:01, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2508:22:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2494:20:33, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2476:18:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2459:08:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2434:07:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2407:00:58, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2386:13:28, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2367:00:45, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2343:00:22, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2312:00:39, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2266:01:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2253:01:13, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2239:01:07, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2223:00:54, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2209:00:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2196:00:33, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2171:00:24, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2131:00:19, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2112:00:02, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2088:23:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2067:22:04, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2033:16:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1996:02:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 1982:02:37, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 1966:02:25, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 1951:01:13, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 1935:00:33, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 1920:23:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1890:16:59, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1876:16:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1859:14:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1838:23:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1822:14:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1791:13:29, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1767:11:09, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1742:23:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1722:10:55, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1689:09:06, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1660:07:51, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1642:07:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1622:04:51, 23 May 2017 (UTC) 1576:03:44, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1553:03:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1535:03:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1519:01:23, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1498:01:09, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1471:11:06, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1457:02:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1436:01:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1426:template. Is there one? 1406:00:52, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1387:ten year notability test 1372:00:42, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1340:01:06, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1292:01:37, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1200:23:42, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1185:23:21, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1166:22:56, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1138:22:48, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1109:23:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC) 1090:22:05, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1056:21:07, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1011:21:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 986:20:57, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 950:20:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 922:20:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 902:20:46, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 864:20:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 833:20:34, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 785:20:33, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 756:20:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 730:20:25, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 710:. I should mention that 697:13:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 670:00:54, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 656:19:51, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 593:19:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 562:19:55, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 493:19:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 461:19:44, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 448:19:38, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 418:19:35, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 393:10:24, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 358:18:02, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 318:16:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 299:19:41, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 276:17:55, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 257:17:28, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 104:02:03, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 65:13:54, 26 May 2017 (UTC) 32:Please do not modify it. 2958:murder is notable, but 2048:, and also initiated a 1245:CDC; CDC (2014-10-07). 1221:"Road Crash Statistics" 820:, but also falls under 796:and (most importantly) 2155:meets all criteria in 1707:Illegitimate Barrister 1608:- Time has shown that 1508:Ser Amantio di Nicolao 1036:delete and merge into 810:2011 Tōhoku earthquake 636: 509: 479: 371:It looks like NOTNEWS. 336: 3687:as coverage is still 3243:few or no other edits 2229:Palace of Westminster 1590:Excellent example of 598:Note to closing admin 573:2017 Stockholm attack 3772:WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE 3743:WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE 3245:outside this topic. 2954:What? Of course not 2050:proposal at WikiNews 1420:yet to be determined 3153:Oppose redirect to 3101:User:FallingGravity 1734:to kill 21 people. 1681:, forget about it! 1416:especially flagrant 3046:I'd say that that 1941:Old Salisbury Road 1514:Lo dicono a Signa. 840:: If this article 577:2016 Berlin attack 3860: 3842: 3831: 3679: 3659: 3639: 3267:deliberate attack 3246: 3227: 3078: 2983:Flat-Tire murders 2384: 2345: 1793: 1496: 1164: 984: 912: 874: 678:User:Parzival1919 617: 522: 109: 108: 63: 3907: 3890: 3844: 3833: 3828: 3818: 3811: 3790: 3788: 3745:would require a 3718:TheGracefulSlick 3417: 3412: 3358: 3318: 3284: 3271:reliable sources 3232: 2775: 2723: 2722: 2720: 2699: 2576:notable subjects 2432: 2430: 2423: 2396: 2378: 2340: 2333: 2299:2016 Nice attack 2288: 2181: 2109: 2102: 1818: 1787: 1782: 1711: 1614:I am One of Many 1598:I am One of Many 1509: 1490: 1446: 1424:Move to WikiNews 1365: 1362: 1359: 1356: 1289: 1287: 1261: 1260: 1258: 1257: 1242: 1236: 1235: 1233: 1232: 1217: 1151: 1106: 1104: 1087: 1085: 971: 940: 939: 938: 932: 920: 906: 879: 868: 861: 854: 829: 777:Inter&anthro 738: 727: 720: 695: 634: 595: 560: 559: 557: 547: 538: 529: 516: 507: 477: 475:Business Insider 459: 446: 445: 443: 430: 416: 415: 413: 334: 255: 230: 229: 215: 167: 155: 137: 83: 82: 76: 62: 60: 53: 34: 3915: 3914: 3910: 3909: 3908: 3906: 3905: 3904: 3903: 3897:deletion review 3886: 3816: 3809: 3786: 3784: 3415: 3410: 3361: 3356: 3321: 3316: 3287: 3282: 3269:? This is what 3097:WP:NOTTEMPORARY 2769: 2716: 2713: 2712: 2640:just 2 days ago 2443:not an accident 2426: 2419: 2417: 2364: 2336: 2329: 2282: 2175: 2105: 2098: 1812: 1785: 1780: 1703: 1632:Gamebuster19901 1517: 1507: 1440: 1363: 1360: 1357: 1354: 1328:WP:NOTNEWSPAPER 1285: 1283: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1255: 1253: 1244: 1243: 1239: 1230: 1228: 1219: 1218: 1214: 1102: 1100: 1083: 1081: 936: 926: 914: 857: 850: 827: 723: 716: 689: 635: 630: 553: 550: 549: 541: 532: 523: 508: 503: 478: 473: 453: 439: 436: 435: 409: 406: 405: 383: 335: 330: 249: 172: 163: 128: 112: 80: 74: 56: 54: 48:The result was 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3913: 3911: 3902: 3901: 3881: 3880: 3862: 3861: 3841: 3832: 3825: 3824: 3800: 3799: 3798: 3797: 3796: 3795: 3787:Rhododendrites 3776:WP:CRYSTALBALL 3762: 3761: 3747:WP:CRYSTALBALL 3729: 3728: 3707: 3681: 3680: 3660: 3640: 3619: 3618: 3600: 3599: 3598: 3597: 3596: 3595: 3581: 3580: 3562: 3545: 3544: 3528: 3527: 3526: 3525: 3524: 3523: 3507:I also stated 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2009: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2005: 2004: 2003: 2002: 2001: 2000: 1999: 1998: 1909:New York Times 1895: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1861: 1843: 1842: 1841: 1840: 1825: 1824: 1795: 1794: 1770: 1769: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1744: 1725: 1724: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1663: 1662: 1645: 1644: 1639:Contributions) 1583: 1582: 1581: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1556: 1555: 1538: 1537: 1521: 1511: 1500: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1409: 1408: 1374: 1299: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1294: 1286:Rhododendrites 1263: 1262: 1237: 1211: 1210: 1206: 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1187: 1169: 1168: 1140: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1103:Rhododendrites 1093: 1092: 1084:Rhododendrites 1058: 1013: 1003:Knowledgekid87 988: 956: 955: 954: 953: 952: 866: 835: 787: 758: 732: 701: 700: 699: 672: 640: 639: 638: 637: 628: 619: 618: 565: 564: 540: 531: 513: 512: 511: 510: 501: 495: 480: 471: 465: 464: 463: 421: 420: 395: 381: 360: 340: 339: 338: 337: 328: 322: 321: 320: 280: 279: 233: 232: 169: 107: 106: 84: 73: 68: 46: 45: 25: 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3403: 3400: 3396: 3392: 3387: 3384: 3382: 3378: 3374: 3369: 3366: 3364: 3360: 3359: 3352: 3351: 3346: 3342: 3338: 3333: 3330: 3324: 3320: 3319: 3312: 3311: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3300: 3296: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3286: 3285: 3278: 3277: 3272: 3268: 3264: 3261: 3260: 3257: 3253: 3249: 3244: 3240: 3236: 3231: 3230: 3226: 3222: 3216: 3212: 3207: 3203: 3200: 3199: 3190: 3186: 3182: 3178: 3174: 3173: 3172: 3168: 3164: 3160: 3156: 3152: 3151: 3150: 3146: 3142: 3138: 3134: 3133: 3132: 3131: 3128: 3124: 3120: 3116: 3114: 3110: 3106: 3105:Bill DeBlasio 3102: 3098: 3094: 3091: 3087: 3084: 3083: 3077: 3073: 3067: 3063: 3059: 3053: 3052:WP:NOTABILITY 3049: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3039: 3035: 3031: 3030:Beyond My Ken 3027: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3021: 3017: 3013: 3009: 3006: 3005: 2994: 2991: 2988: 2984: 2980: 2979: 2978: 2974: 2970: 2965: 2962:of them are. 2961: 2957: 2953: 2951: 2947: 2943: 2939: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2929: 2925: 2924:Beyond My Ken 2920: 2919: 2914: 2900: 2896: 2892: 2888: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2879: 2876: 2872: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2861: 2857: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2846: 2842: 2838: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2828: 2824: 2820: 2816: 2815: 2814: 2810: 2806: 2803:discussion.-- 2801: 2800: 2799: 2795: 2791: 2787: 2783: 2779: 2773: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2745: 2741: 2737: 2733: 2730: 2729: 2726: 2721: 2719: 2714:usernamekiran 2710: 2706: 2702: 2698: 2694: 2682: 2678: 2674: 2670: 2665: 2661: 2657: 2656: 2655: 2651: 2647: 2646:Beyond My Ken 2643: 2642: 2641: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2629: 2625: 2622:notability.-- 2620: 2616: 2611: 2610: 2609: 2605: 2601: 2600:Beyond My Ken 2597: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2584: 2583: 2578: 2577: 2572: 2571: 2566: 2565: 2564: 2560: 2556: 2551: 2550: 2549: 2548: 2545: 2541: 2537: 2536:Beyond My Ken 2533: 2530: 2528: 2524: 2520: 2516: 2513: 2509: 2505: 2501: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2491: 2487: 2482: 2479: 2477: 2473: 2469: 2465: 2462: 2460: 2456: 2452: 2448: 2444: 2440: 2437: 2435: 2431: 2429: 2424: 2422: 2415: 2412: 2408: 2404: 2400: 2395: 2391: 2387: 2382: 2377: 2372: 2371: 2370: 2369: 2368: 2363: 2359: 2357: 2355: 2352: 2349: 2348: 2344: 2341: 2339: 2334: 2332: 2326: 2321: 2313: 2309: 2305: 2300: 2296: 2295:ten year test 2292: 2286: 2281: 2267: 2264: 2261: 2256: 2255: 2254: 2250: 2246: 2242: 2241: 2240: 2237: 2234: 2230: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2220: 2216: 2212: 2211: 2210: 2207: 2204: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2193: 2189: 2185: 2179: 2174: 2173: 2172: 2169: 2166: 2162: 2158: 2154: 2150: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2143: 2142: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2132: 2128: 2124: 2120: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2110: 2108: 2103: 2101: 2095: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2085: 2081: 2077: 2073: 2070: 2068: 2064: 2060: 2055: 2051: 2047: 2043: 2039: 2036: 2034: 2030: 2026: 2022: 2018: 2015: 2014: 1997: 1993: 1989: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1980: 1977: 1973: 1969: 1968: 1967: 1963: 1959: 1954: 1953: 1952: 1949: 1946: 1942: 1938: 1937: 1936: 1932: 1928: 1923: 1922: 1921: 1918: 1915: 1912: 1910: 1905: 1904:routine brief 1901: 1900: 1899: 1898: 1897: 1896: 1891: 1887: 1883: 1879: 1878: 1877: 1873: 1869: 1868:185.59.158.22 1865: 1862: 1860: 1856: 1852: 1848: 1845: 1844: 1839: 1836: 1833: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1826: 1823: 1820: 1819: 1817: 1816: 1808: 1804: 1800: 1797: 1796: 1792: 1788: 1783: 1777: 1772: 1771: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1756: 1752: 1749: 1748: 1743: 1740: 1737: 1733: 1729: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1723: 1719: 1715: 1710: 1709: 1708: 1701: 1698: 1697: 1690: 1687: 1684: 1680: 1676: 1671: 1667: 1666: 1665: 1664: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1652:Beyond My Ken 1649: 1648: 1647: 1646: 1643: 1640: 1636: 1633: 1629: 1626: 1625: 1624: 1623: 1619: 1615: 1611: 1607: 1603: 1599: 1595: 1593: 1589: 1577: 1574: 1571: 1567: 1564: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1557: 1554: 1550: 1546: 1545:Beyond My Ken 1542: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1536: 1533: 1530: 1525: 1522: 1520: 1516: 1515: 1510: 1504: 1501: 1499: 1494: 1489: 1485: 1482: 1481: 1472: 1468: 1464: 1460: 1459: 1458: 1454: 1450: 1444: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1433: 1429: 1425: 1421: 1417: 1413: 1412: 1411: 1410: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1395: 1390: 1388: 1382: 1378: 1375: 1373: 1370: 1367: 1366: 1350: 1347: 1344: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1337: 1333: 1329: 1324: 1320: 1319:WP:RSBREAKING 1316: 1311: 1307: 1305: 1293: 1288: 1281: 1277: 1272: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1267: 1252: 1248: 1241: 1238: 1226: 1222: 1216: 1213: 1209: 1201: 1197: 1193: 1188: 1186: 1182: 1178: 1177:Beyond My Ken 1173: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1167: 1163: 1162:Contributions 1160: 1157: 1154: 1150: 1149: 1144: 1141: 1139: 1135: 1131: 1130:Beyond My Ken 1127: 1123: 1119: 1116: 1115: 1110: 1105: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1091: 1086: 1079: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1059: 1057: 1053: 1052:contributions 1049: 1045: 1041: 1039: 1033: 1029: 1025: 1021: 1017: 1014: 1012: 1008: 1004: 1000: 996: 992: 989: 987: 983: 982:Contributions 980: 977: 974: 970: 969: 964: 960: 957: 951: 947: 943: 930: 925: 924: 923: 919: 918: 910: 909:edit conflict 905: 904: 903: 899: 895: 890: 887:(formerly at 886: 882: 878: 872: 871:edit conflict 867: 865: 862: 860: 855: 853: 847: 843: 839: 836: 834: 831: 830: 823: 819: 815: 811: 807: 803: 799: 795: 791: 788: 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110: 105: 101: 97: 93: 89: 85: 78: 77: 72: 69: 67: 66: 61: 59: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 3887: 3884: 3865: 3852:InedibleHulk 3847: 3837: 3807: 3803: 3779: 3713: 3709: 3684: 3605: 3587:InedibleHulk 3463: 3451:Valkyrie Red 3449:per Sds57.-- 3446: 3429: 3385: 3367: 3355: 3348: 3331: 3315: 3308: 3281: 3274: 3266: 3262: 3201: 3155:Times Square 3112: 3085: 3047: 3007: 2987:InedibleHulk 2963: 2959: 2955: 2917: 2916: 2875:InedibleHulk 2870: 2781: 2731: 2717: 2708: 2700: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2590:encyclopedia 2589: 2587: 2586: 2581: 2580: 2575: 2574: 2569: 2568: 2531: 2514: 2480: 2463: 2442: 2439:Stronly keep 2438: 2427: 2420: 2413: 2350: 2337: 2330: 2260:InedibleHulk 2233:InedibleHulk 2203:InedibleHulk 2184:WP:SUSTAINED 2178:InedibleHulk 2165:InedibleHulk 2160: 2152: 2148: 2118: 2106: 2099: 2075: 2071: 2041: 2037: 2021:Times Square 2016: 1976:InedibleHulk 1971: 1945:InedibleHulk 1914:InedibleHulk 1908: 1863: 1851:Calicodragon 1846: 1832:InedibleHulk 1814: 1813: 1810: 1798: 1750: 1736:InedibleHulk 1731: 1705: 1704: 1699: 1683:InedibleHulk 1678: 1674: 1669: 1627: 1605: 1587: 1585: 1584: 1570:InedibleHulk 1529:InedibleHulk 1523: 1513: 1502: 1483: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1394:Times Square 1384: 1376: 1353: 1345: 1303: 1301: 1300: 1254:. 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As usual, 1060: 1038:Times Square 1035: 1015: 998: 993:This is per 990: 978: 972: 966: 963:Times Square 958: 916: 880: 858: 851: 841: 837: 826: 817: 801: 789: 760: 739: 724: 717: 703: 691: 674: 648:Parzival1919 643: 625: 597: 568: 554: 498: 468: 455: 440: 431: 410: 397: 370: 363: 362: 347: 343: 325: 310:South Nashua 305: 286: 268:South Nashua 263: 262: 251: 234: 222: 216: 208: 201: 195: 189: 183: 173: 160: 87: 57: 50:no consensus 49: 47: 31: 28: 3774:requires a 3751:E.M.Gregory 3669:K.e.coffman 3513:K.e.coffman 3491:E.M.Gregory 3468:K.e.coffman 3273:are saying. 3241:) has made 3219:—Preceding 3163:E.M.Gregory 3119:E.M.Gregory 3070:—Preceding 2837:WP:POVTITLE 2819:WP:POVTITLE 2786:loaded term 2709:significant 2468:Michael5046 2376:regentspark 1799:Week Delete 1488:regentspark 1323:WP:BREAKING 1315:WP:BREAKING 802:significant 432:PS comment: 385:E.M.Gregory 374:E.M.Gregory 264:Weak Delete 199:free images 3693:WP:NOTNEWS 3373:The Legacy 3295:epicgenius 3206:WP:NOTNEWS 3181:epicgenius 2938:WP:INDEPTH 2891:epicgenius 2856:epicgenius 2823:epicgenius 2790:epicgenius 2736:epicgenius 2660:WP:TOOSOON 2615:WP:INDEPTH 2596:WP:ILIKEIT 2399:epicgenius 2304:epicgenius 2245:epicgenius 2215:epicgenius 2188:epicgenius 2094:WP:NOTNEWS 2059:Nick Moyes 2054:WP:NOTNEWS 2046:WP:NOTNEWS 1988:epicgenius 1958:epicgenius 1927:epicgenius 1882:epicgenius 1755:WP:NOTNEWS 1610:WP:NOTNEWS 1592:WP:NOTNEWS 1463:epicgenius 1449:epicgenius 1443:Nick Moyes 1428:Nick Moyes 1398:epicgenius 1381:WP:NOTNEWS 1332:Nick Moyes 1310:WP:TOOSOON 1256:2017-05-18 1231:2017-05-18 1208:References 1126:WP:NOTNEWS 1122:WP:TOOSOON 1078:WP:NOTNEWS 1024:WP:NOTNEWS 995:WP:TOOSOON 929:Kuyabribri 917:KuyaBriBri 822:WP:NOTNEWS 794:WP:NOTNEWS 769:WP:NOTNEWS 765:WP:TOOSOON 708:WP:NOTNEWS 692:KuyaBriBri 682:changed it 662:epicgenius 526:Kuyabribri 456:KuyaBriBri 252:KuyaBriBri 58:Sandstein 3893:talk page 3649:• Gene93k 3629:• Gene93k 3552:Everyking 3012:Lowellian 2969:Everyking 2782:terrorist 2500:Everyking 2351:Weak keep 2285:Everyking 2123:Everyking 2080:Everyking 2040:and also 2023:article. 1847:Weak keep 1815:Gtstricky 1396:article. 1304:Weak keep 1044:Delta1989 1028:WP:TOSOON 1016:Weak Keep 818:long shot 686:WP:REDACT 306:Weak Keep 287:weak keep 37:talk page 3895:or in a 3768:WP:RAPID 3735:WP:RAPID 3714:possibly 3391:Bachcell 3341:NY Daily 3159:WP:UNDUE 3137:WP:BLP1E 3109:bollards 2887:WP:TITLE 2732:Comment: 2705:WP:EVENT 2701:Comment: 2619:WP:RAPID 2025:Alansohn 1911:feature. 1718:contribs 1675:together 1628:Draftify 1276:WP:EVENT 1148:Jay Coop 1073:WP:RAPID 1065:WP:EVENT 1020:WP:RAPID 999:Redirect 968:Jay Coop 959:Redirect 828:~Oshwah~ 814:WP:EVENT 798:WP:EVENT 675:Comment: 610:contribs 158:View log 39:or in a 3689:ongoing 3416:Neonate 3345:NY Post 3263:Comment 3221:undated 3072:undated 2942:Tdl1060 2889:. Oops 2871:clearly 2841:Tdl1060 2805:Tdl1060 2772:Tdl1060 2757:Tdl1060 2673:Tdl1060 2664:WP:N(E) 2624:Tdl1060 2582:becomes 2555:Tdl1060 2532:Comment 2519:Tdl1060 2381:comment 2362:Gravity 2338:Warrior 2119:sources 2107:Warrior 1803:notable 1786:Neonate 1493:comment 1192:Rævhuld 1143:Comment 859:Warrior 838:Comment 725:Warrior 602:Rævhuld 585:Rævhuld 535:Rævhuld 485:Rævhuld 483:over.-- 400:as per 344:Delete. 291:Rævhuld 205:WP refs 193:scholar 131:protect 126:history 3870:BabbaQ 3855:(talk) 3710:Delete 3590:(talk) 3464:Delete 3337:NY Mag 2990:(talk) 2878:(talk) 2718:(talk) 2570:become 2451:Metron 2428:S¡m¡on 2263:(talk) 2236:(talk) 2206:(talk) 2168:(talk) 2157:WP:GNG 2042:Delete 2017:Delete 1979:(talk) 1948:(talk) 1917:(talk) 1906:and a 1835:(talk) 1751:Delete 1739:(talk) 1700:Delete 1686:(talk) 1588:Delete 1573:(talk) 1563:fairly 1532:(talk) 1503:Delete 1484:Delete 1377:Delete 1369:(talk) 1346:Delete 1280:WP:GNG 1120:- per 1118:Delete 1069:WP:GNG 1061:Delete 991:Delete 808:, the 792:- Per 790:Delete 763:- per 761:Delete 704:Delete 555:(talk) 544:Oshwah 441:(talk) 411:(talk) 398:Delete 364:Delete 308:here. 177:Google 135:delete 3838:still 3810:Mar4d 3612:talk 3566:today 3434:Sds57 3411:Paleo 3139:). - 3016:reply 2956:every 2918:Every 2421:Eugεn 2161:every 1781:Paleo 1732:tried 1679:twice 1670:facts 1635:(Talk 881:Note: 816:by a 740:Note: 354:talk 220:JSTOR 181:books 165:Stats 152:views 144:watch 140:links 88:moved 16:< 3874:talk 3866:Keep 3817:talk 3804:Keep 3755:talk 3722:talk 3701:talk 3685:Keep 3673:talk 3653:talk 3633:talk 3574:talk 3556:talk 3538:talk 3517:talk 3495:talk 3472:talk 3455:talk 3447:Keep 3438:talk 3430:Keep 3395:talk 3386:Keep 3377:talk 3368:Keep 3357:talk 3332:Keep 3317:talk 3299:talk 3283:talk 3252:talk 3248:WWGB 3239:talk 3215:talk 3202:Keep 3185:talk 3167:talk 3145:talk 3123:talk 3086:Keep 3066:talk 3034:talk 3008:Keep 2973:talk 2964:Most 2960:some 2946:talk 2928:talk 2895:talk 2860:talk 2845:talk 2827:talk 2809:talk 2794:talk 2761:talk 2740:talk 2677:talk 2650:talk 2628:talk 2604:talk 2559:talk 2540:talk 2523:talk 2515:Keep 2504:talk 2490:talk 2486:WKP1 2481:Keep 2472:talk 2464:Keep 2455:talk 2414:Keep 2403:talk 2308:talk 2249:talk 2219:talk 2192:talk 2153:also 2149:most 2127:talk 2084:talk 2072:Keep 2063:talk 2029:talk 1992:talk 1962:talk 1931:talk 1886:talk 1872:talk 1864:Keep 1855:talk 1778:. — 1763:talk 1759:WWGB 1714:talk 1668:The 1656:talk 1618:talk 1606:Keep 1602:talk 1566:sexy 1549:talk 1524:Keep 1467:talk 1453:talk 1432:talk 1402:talk 1336:talk 1321:and 1308:but 1196:talk 1181:talk 1156:Talk 1134:talk 1080:. — 1048:talk 1018:per 1007:talk 976:Talk 946:talk 898:talk 781:talk 767:and 752:talk 706:per 666:talk 652:talk 644:Keep 606:talk 589:talk 579:and 569:Keep 489:talk 389:talk 378:talk 314:talk 295:talk 272:talk 213:FENS 187:news 148:logs 122:talk 118:edit 100:talk 3848:way 3791:\\ 3607:DGG 3217:) 3111:. 3090:dwi 3068:) 2331:Sky 2100:Sky 1972:not 1807:CNN 1720:), 1364:Fir 1361:een 1358:rgr 1355:Eve 1290:\\ 1107:\\ 1088:\\ 1050:) ( 1026:or 961:to 942:Mz7 894:Mz7 852:Sky 748:Mz7 718:Sky 688:. — 614:XfD 349:DGG 248:. — 227:TWL 156:– ( 96:Mz7 52:. 3876:) 3820:) 3780:so 3757:) 3724:) 3703:) 3675:) 3667:. 3655:) 3647:. 3635:) 3627:. 3614:) 3576:) 3558:) 3540:) 3519:) 3497:) 3474:) 3457:) 3440:) 3419:— 3397:) 3379:) 3350:VR 3343:, 3339:, 3310:VR 3301:) 3276:VR 3254:) 3233:— 3187:) 3169:) 3147:) 3125:) 3060:-- 3048:is 3036:) 3018:) 2975:) 2948:) 2930:) 2897:) 2862:) 2847:) 2829:) 2821:. 2811:) 2796:) 2763:) 2742:) 2679:) 2652:) 2630:) 2606:) 2598:. 2561:) 2542:) 2525:) 2506:) 2492:) 2474:) 2457:) 2405:) 2327:. 2310:) 2251:) 2221:) 2194:) 2186:. 2129:) 2096:. 2086:) 2065:) 2031:) 1994:) 1964:) 1943:. 1933:) 1888:) 1874:) 1857:) 1789:— 1765:) 1757:. 1716:• 1658:) 1620:) 1596:-- 1551:) 1469:) 1455:) 1434:) 1404:) 1383:, 1338:) 1249:. 1223:. 1198:) 1183:) 1136:) 1124:, 1054:) 1009:) 948:) 900:) 842:is 824:. 783:) 754:) 714:. 668:) 654:) 629:— 616:. 608:• 600:: 596:— 591:) 575:, 502:— 491:) 472:— 391:) 356:) 329:— 316:) 297:) 274:) 241:, 207:) 150:| 146:| 142:| 138:| 133:| 129:| 124:| 120:| 102:) 94:. 3872:( 3814:( 3753:( 3749:. 3720:( 3699:( 3671:( 3651:( 3631:( 3610:( 3572:( 3554:( 3536:( 3515:( 3493:( 3489:. 3470:( 3453:( 3436:( 3393:( 3375:( 3297:( 3250:( 3237:( 3213:( 3183:( 3165:( 3143:( 3121:( 3117:. 3064:( 3032:( 3014:( 2971:( 2944:( 2926:( 2893:( 2858:( 2843:( 2825:( 2807:( 2792:( 2774:: 2770:@ 2759:( 2738:( 2675:( 2648:( 2626:( 2602:( 2557:( 2538:( 2521:( 2502:( 2488:( 2470:( 2453:( 2401:( 2383:) 2379:( 2306:( 2287:: 2283:@ 2247:( 2217:( 2190:( 2180:: 2176:@ 2125:( 2082:( 2061:( 2027:( 1990:( 1960:( 1929:( 1884:( 1870:( 1853:( 1761:( 1712:( 1654:( 1637:║ 1616:( 1600:( 1594:. 1586:* 1547:( 1495:) 1491:( 1465:( 1451:( 1445:: 1441:@ 1430:( 1400:( 1334:( 1302:* 1278:/ 1259:. 1234:. 1194:( 1179:( 1159:· 1153:· 1132:( 1067:/ 1046:( 1040:. 1005:( 979:· 973:· 944:( 931:: 927:@ 911:) 907:( 896:( 873:) 869:( 779:( 750:( 664:( 650:( 604:( 587:( 546:: 542:@ 537:: 533:@ 528:: 524:@ 521:) 517:( 487:( 387:( 376:( 366:, 352:( 312:( 293:( 270:( 231:) 223:· 217:· 209:· 202:· 196:· 190:· 184:· 179:( 171:( 168:) 161:· 154:) 116:( 98:(

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