Knowledge:Articles for deletion/2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine

89:, not by deletion. The question remains is such an umbrella article even valid. Some in the delete camp argued that there are different issues that should not be mixed. Against this the keep camp provided reliable sources bringing together the different aspects as a single conflict. I find that the delete camp have failed to counter this either with arguments from sources or arguments from policy so this position also fails. The second thread of the delete camp was that there is no Russian military intervention, or that there is none other than in Crimea, or that it is not proven that there is military intervention. Against this the keep camp produced sources discussing and comparing Russian intervention in Eastern Ukraine and comparing it Crimea, or speculating on it. The keep argument is that it is irrelevant whether or not the intervention is true, it is enough that sources are talking about it. Since WP content is based on reliable sources by policy, then I find that the keep camp has the strongest policy based argument here. Having said that, we need to be careful what we are writing as fact, what is a sources opinion, and what is pure speculation. But again, such problems are a matter for normal editing to sort out. They do not amount to grounds for deletion. 1491:'war in donbass' - 'pro-Russia unrest' - none of these has 'Russian intervention' in the title though - but 'russian intervention in ukraine' is an important topic - a topic on its own - it involves the eastern Ukraine story and the shoot down of the civilian passenger plane , and the delivery and employment of buks , and the crimea event and the role of Russian military intelligence, it involves the putin method of creating problems and then offering himself up as a solution to problems - it is a subject area on its own , that exists, part of this story , in other articles, but deserves its own article imo. I never said you were dishonest - but complacent if others were dishonest - you didn't care because you assumed good faith - but that's a bit complacent really - just my opinion. - all it takes for evil to thrive etc - 3169:

covers all the military intervention of the Russian regime from Crimea to now and the 'humanitarian convoy'? which article?( and before you say about the convoy, there are fears that this is a ploy kind of thing, its al part of the story of Russian military intervention in RS, realities and suspicions etc ) if you say , its there , but in dispersed articles , (with vanilla titles some of them), how is that more 'readable'? if you say they are all separate, and MUST be dealt with separately or the sky falls in, as you have said above , that is your pov. that is a pov ,but you don't see that, do you. there are RS that discuss this Russian arc of intervention as one phenomenon.

2113:. This article needs to go, unless there is further armed intervention by Russia in the future. Constance Lahaye (talk) 03:44, 5 August 2014 - so you and constance have an outlook resolved to call all RS talk of russian intervention in easternukraine 'crystal balls' and speculation' - that's how I see it anyhow - its got nothing to do with crystal balls its about reports of what is going on now, and after the Donetsk airport fighting especially. 'The rebels in eastern Ukraine have been led mostly by Russian citizens and field heavy weaponry Kiev and its allies say can only have come from Russia. Moscow denies aiding them.' - well they would , wouldn't they? 1678:). But some say there is no persuading "proof" of such intervention in Eastern Ukraine as yet. But Knowledge does not assesses "proofs". It is written based on sources and claims in sources. And Russian military intervention in Eastern Ukraine is considered by world political leaders and major media as a fact, the reason for sanctions against Russian elite. And speaking of strange accounts voting for deletion and etc: of course, there can be pro-Putin editors who will do their best to shift focus, as there is now an Kremlin's entity responsible for international Internet propaganda, as media tells. -- 3191:. I do not understand what is behind your crusade, but whatever it is, please refrain from continuing it. You see, personally, I'm quite on the Ukrainian side of things in this war. However, that's not the point of our working here, where we are trying to build an encyclopaedia. Our job is to be neutral, to present information in a factual manner so that the reader can make up his or her mind for his or herself. POV forking in an attempt to direct the reader into speculation about "humanitarian convoys", and whatever, is not at all appropriate. It is both 85:. It may well have started off as a fork of this article, but clearly it covers more ground than that now. Others argued that it is a fork of multiple articles. Some in the keep camp argued that this article is an umbrella article bringing together different aspects of events in Ukraine. If it is accepted that an umbrella article would be valid then the fork argument fails whatever the current shortcomings of the article. It may be true that large amounts of duplication exist, but the way to deal with that is by adopting 2655:

have been marked by Russian intervention, or that have the hand of the Russian regime visible as discussed and reported in RS. it is an article on its own, not a fork because crimea discusses crimea only, but makes no connection with the shoot down of MH 17, etc - Rs commentary make the connection - the connection is the putinist policy of destabilization and mischief generally - that unites crimea, buks, shootdowns, Donetsk fighting, military intelligence, strelkov, etc

2826:? You had made a false argument but ignored my pinpointing it. But it obviously works against your case of "forking". This article is clearly more general, and have to be keeped, as intervention continued from alleged Russian involvement in Maidan protesters killings pass Crimean Crisis to War in Donbass, and still is continuing may be to something else, and this very article is obviously an umbrella article for all these events where intervention took place. -- 3677:"The US issued a stark warning on Tuesday that Moscow could be orchestrating another Crimea-style intervention in eastern Ukraine, after pro-Russian forces cemented their control of a government building in the city of Donetsk and there were claims that in Lugansk protesters had taken up to 60 people hostage. The US secretary of state, John Kerry, described recent developments in eastern Ukraine as "more than deeply disturbing" 1159:'tanks , armoured vehicles, crossed the border from Russia,' day befrore MH 17 was shot down - are the tanks and armoured vehicles, volunteers too? (I get your thought , like maybe George Orwell went to fight in span civil war but that doesn't mean there is an article 'british intervention in sp civil war' - but I guess I don't think Russian intervention is like that, a load of Russian orwells - not at all like that imo) 1227:. Regardless of whether Russia did or does or doesn't intervene in Ukraine, it can be covered in the appropriate article, depending on geographic location, as it already is. There is no need for this fourth article, which is merely a fork that is attempting to push a point-of-view, and has no unique content. Therefore, I recommend this article be deleted. I do not see any information here that is not already in either 3373:. What does it say about people that they take a neutrally-worded statement as an insult or an attack - so used to doing it themselves that they expect others to be doing it too? Seems like there's a lot of bad faith and out-of-context quoting being thrown around here from you all. Anyways, I'm unwatching this. None of the discussion in the past day has really been productive anyways. Ping if I'm absolutely needed. 1111:- when myloboaccount says dogamatically 'there is no military intervention by Russia in ukraine' - well, in the May Donetsk Airport fighting more than 50% killed were Russian citizens their bodies were shipped back - so some guide to the involvement -Putin has been covertly supporting the separatists in eastern Ukraine - the shoot down of the plane is part of the story too I think etc - listen to this podcast 1631:. Information that is here is already present on multiple other pages with significant overlap, and there is no reason for the information to be repeated here, nor for this article to exist. We should not have multiple articles discussing the exact same thing under a different title, and anything that is currently missing on the other existing articles can be moved over. This page's content is redundant to 3244:

is saying because I've found volunteer marek whenever I've encountered the name, full of good content, and happy to leave it at that - I don't mean to be arguing different from volunteer marek, but obviously I end up doing so - in the end , anyhow its not 'my' case. reality is the master is one of my favourite sayings - reality makes the case for this being a proper title for a proper article imo.

31: 335:, the idea is that content from this page is moved to the other pages covering overlapping topics. I'd take it that people wouldn't be pushing for outright deletion, but towards a consensus that the page is a redundant fork that needs to be merged. If the final outcome of this discussion is a decision to merge, then the merger process can begin immediately after AfD closure. -- 632:. The organization of articles relating to Ukraine is been appalling since the start we have so many subarticles and names for different things it just becomes confusing as to what we are looking for or at. This should be merged into the Crimean Crisis as the only official Russian involvement occurred during this event. Everything else is speculation for the most part. -- 2617:. This article is a fork, as all of its content is elsewhere. No one is contesting the facts on the ground about Crimea. I wish that whoever closes this discussion would actually take time to read the arguments presented by the "keep" parties here. They hold no water whatsoever, and completely ignore the reasons why this article must be either merged or deleted. 1855:

been started properly, it is just let to continue. In this case, there are users in good standing on both sides of the discussion, and thus it is irrelevant that the discussion was started by a sock. The votes of the socks have been striken out (I am not sure why were the socks not blocked for simultaneous voting), this is pretty much sufficient.--

2149:'content forking' - is irrelevant to me - the intervention is a single phenomenon and needs its own article. if that doesn't address the issue for you I cant help - i'm not a wikilawyer but I think its a load of old bluster , forking nonsense- its an article offaithto some editors that Russia has not intervened except in crimea 754:- When news sources indulge in speculation themselves, it is rather hard to qualify them as "reliable". So far as they are concerned, the US government has the means to verify such allegations, yet have chosen not to do so. The use of social media as a form of evidence is perhaps the closest they can come, a worrying trend. 2753:

nomination either, I pinged them to comment. Anyone would've seen that message, as it was on the article talk page. Regardless, there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about my actions whatsoever. Nothing. As far as a merger goes, that is what we are discussing now. If you will support a merger, that's fine with me.

1287:

editor with just 44 edits , started this deletion call? after 44 edits I was just about getting the hang of how to insert pictures I think. this is a pov drive to edit history - none of the other articles have titles adequate for this content - this is not about 'pro-Russian unrest', do you not see that ?

1219:– People discussing this matter are getting bogged down in details about whether there was a "Russian military intervention" or not. This is not what matters here. What matters here is that this article's content is merely stuff that is forked from more appropriate articles. For matters in Crimea, there is 2654:

this is far more about eastern Ukraine than crimea now anyhow rgloucester, why are you obsessed with saying the crimea content is elsewhere - this article is about the great sweep of all Russian intervention in ukraine , not limited to geographisc area, or particular crisis, but all the crises that

2261:

Ymblanter wrote his personal opinion, and he is entitled to his own opinion. He made a comment explaining that he did not believe your points were satisfactory and hence thought that they can be discarded, and this is his own personal opinion regarding your arguments. Ymblanter did not use a label to

2163:

For someone who proclaims to be not a wikilawyer you left too many messages at this page which have too little relation to policies. Anyway, it is clear now that your arguments have nothing to do with the policies, they are just a mixture of comments on other editors and you own convictions, and thus

3725:

ideas - you saying Crimea is absolutely unique is your pov , but RS should count more and from what i've seen they routinely discuss crimea , and eastern Ukraine, and Putinism, together, not hermetically sealed off . read the history you say to me, and I politely say to you, read RS written today

3268:

I'm going to be honest here: I originally thought you were Eastern European or Indian or something. Proper use of punctuation, capitalization, spelling, and grammar, while not required, does go a long way towards helping others comprehend what you've written. To the first part of what you wrote, I'm

3243:

Ansh , we are a big community,full of all sorts of types, I'm sure I read very different to how I am in reality,- very unsure basically,- writing here demands a bit of 'front' , for me it does anyhow,- standoffish-ness, to you is actually me , glad that Gloucester appreciates what volunteer marek

3098:

its about more than Crimea suvars - anyway - sorry not to welcme yu -, such a rare bird as you at these wp pages deserves a great really warm welcome and it was remiss of me - even if it is just to seek to delete , rather than add to the sum of content, welcome, welcome, - you can start an article

2752:

Spare me the bad faith accusations. We were discussing it for a while. However, I didn't realise that the page was nominated for deletion at the time, and hence didn't comment at this discussion until yesterday. Noting that neither of the other editors discussed the matter with noticed this deletion

2092:

The "Russian intervention" was part of the crisis. It was not separate from the crisis. Do you understand what forking is? "Assessing proofs" misses the mark. It has nothing to do with this deletion discussion. I don't care what the nominator said. The problem here is that this article forks content

1839:

your language is terrible - the vehemence of your denunciation in any case imo is a case of 'protesting too much' - if you don't care that dishonest methods seem to be employed wholly by your side of the argument , that indifference to those methods does you no credit , and ultimately undermines

1589:

As i already explained to someone trying to ban me for voting here - i didn't use this account much but i've edited wikipedia anonymously before and im using similar named accounts on other wiki's, like UESP. I've noticed this article today, while reading some obscure forums. I am a staunch defender

923:. Merging these two articles will make an effect of considering the entire "Crimean crisis" as "Russian intervention". This is not unreasonable, however I still believe it would be better to keep these two pages separately because the "crisis" may indeed be something bigger than simply intervention. 2398:

How the hell is this "a matter of concern"? I would have found out about this AfD anyway, it's not like it made any difference. Furthermore, he pinged the two of us because we were already involved within that talk page discussion, it's only natural that he did that. You're grasping at straws here.

2108:

you say you agf but you accuse editors of 'knee-jerk' reponses - is that agf? 'I'd support such an AfD, but I fear that there would be too many knee-jerk "keeps" from people not familiar with our articles on the matter. All we need is someone with the guts to implement it. RGloucester — ☎ 01:42, 5

1996:- oppnents of the article title keep setting up straw men imo - this is about intervention in Ukraine across the board, through a variety of means - intervention, not invasion - and it is not covered in its broad sweep from Crimea to Buks, to maskirovka in the east, whatever, by any other titles. 1475:

already. I was referring to the "humanitarian mission" hypothesis. Regardless, I try to assume good faith. If you'd like to do a SPI, be my guest. If there is a problem, identify it. I have not done anything that is not "honest". I've stated my honest opinion, which I've held since this article was

1060:

If you mean we have full-scale war between Russian and Ukrainian armies, this is original research, and you will have difficulties finding sources which are not marginal. Anyway, my point is that one article is pretty much sufficient. I do not care what the name of the article would be, though 2014

3336:

you're from, as long as your argument is valid and demeanor adequate (which is not true in this case); you could be from Mars for all I care. No, I don't let perception of someone's origin cloud my judgment. A Belorussian farmer or Bangladeshi teenager could have a more cogent point than a tenured

3168:

you think 'our' organisation of content would collapse if there existed an article with this title? seems absurd. 'readability' ? so this title would inevitably lead to unreadability ? - why ? -because your articles have said it all, and the reader would get confused? but which of your articles

2134:

Would you please address the issue of content forking instead of explaining for the tenth time what is your view of the Russian intervention (which is not a RS and can not be included to Knowledge btw). The argument that none of the four existing articles had intervention in the title is not valid

1947:

If you don't know what I'm talking about with "assessing proofs", you can scroll this page up to the very beginning and see the starting post, which I reply to. It begins with "So far, the only confirmed intervention in Ukraine by the Russian military has been in Crimea and nowhere else", which in

1456:

Russia is firing missiles at ukraine - what bothers me when you say you don't care if chicanery is involved in those who vote fr deletion is that you don't see a problem at winking at people who are just mugging off the project - another vote has appeared here - from someone with 5 edits in five

1286:

if its tripe it should be improved - Russian military intervention in Ukraine , under that title , is worth an article - those that argue against are just as open to a 'knee-jerk' charge as those who want an article under this name. - dos it not bother yu , or give you pause , rglloucester that an

1155:

its still Russian intervention - and then theres the 'ex-military', or military intelligence -'you are never really 'ex' ' - anyway the Russian argument belongs in an article about all this - the point is that there is an attempt here to delete the article - that's out of order imo - on thepodcast

1114:

mymoloboaccount, or do you get all your views from RT etc ? crimea was a situation full of lies -and in the end Putin just admitted he was lying didn't he? there is information available about Russian intervention in eastern Ukraine - to ignore it is to willfully encourage ignorance not knowledge

789:

for the definition of a reliable source. Whether or not, in some anonymous internet user's opinion, sources engage in "speculation" or not is not one of the criteria and hence irrelevant to a deletion discussion. The sources under consideration here are clearly reliable. The nature of your comment

3214:

oh well then fine, because I respect volunteer mareks position also - I don't understand anything you say either btw , and all the 'what shall I do my lord' - bit exaggerated, like a lot of your talk , -the only wrong I want to right is the wrongheadedness that says the sky will fall in if the

2784:

I've generally opposed (somewhat without effect) the sprawl and content-forking of articles relating to the Ukrainian crisis. And there's been a lot of that. There's probably half a dozen other articles which are certainly worthy of deletion/merger. I'm not so sure this is one of them. I know I'm

1854:

This is not a good argument. (If it were, people would start writing socks to nominate articles for deletion so that the articles would not be re-nominated again). A standard Knowledge practice is that even if the dscussion has been started improperly, IF it is a real discussion and it could have

1375:

well I don't agree - there should be an article that looks absolutely specifically at Russian intervention, not pro-Russian unrest, and not limiting itself to a specific geographic area, looking at the arc of Russian intervention - and now taking the form of the establishment of ' a fortified

1301:

I assume good faith, so I don't particularly care about the motives of the person that nominated this article for deletion. All that I care about is getting rid of this content fork, which cannot have any unique content, and does not. This "tripe" cannot be improved, because improving it would be

1012:

presents these events (or a part of them) as covert and overt military intervention by Russia. The content and the way of presentation of two pages has very little overlap, and both pages are very big. Speaking practically, I would suggest keeping both pages and gradually improving them. Deletion

3148:

People are still arguing about whether there is or isn't intervention. One again, I will state that none of that matters in the context of this deletion discussion. This discussion is about our article guidelines, our organisation of content, and readability. It is not about whether there was or

2324:

Yes, absolutely. Therefore, this "Russian intervention" page (AfD) is a valid sub-article of parent article(s) about "crisis". We do sub-pages all the time (otherwise many WP pages would be enormously large, just as all these recent Ukrainian politics pages under discussion). That does not mean

3680:- RS say some observers see it all as same Putin-ist intervention. if your understanding is far more subtle than RS , I thought that wp still followed what RS say. and if you suggest to me I read up on crimean politics , might I suggest in turn to you you read Michael Weiss, and interpreter.mag 2874:

Are Crimean Crisis, annexation of Crimea and War in Donbass just separate independent events, or they are episodes of some bigger event, like WWII? Aren't they linked together? Like 2003 Iraq invasion is linked with subsequent Iraqi rebellion in the general Iraq War? Actually they are linked in

1359:

The original intent was to have a separate articles for the military and political crises in Crimea, but this has not happened. The Crimean crisis essentially covers everything, and anything from here worth keeping can be merged there with little trouble. There is no justification for having a

1553:

this article completely. Far from being a nationalist or even a supporter of russian government - this article seems unnecessary. Without hard evidence of russian military involvement in Ukraine - this article amounts nothing more than to speculation and "yellow pages" style of presenting the

1177:

in Crimea (and in Eastern Ukraine) is directed entirely from the Moscow, and all separatist "leaders" are merely their middleman or puppets. For example, Aksyonov in Crimea was "elected" to his position by Russian GRU detachment that occupied their parliament (just as during the Soviet war in

1045:

how is 'pro-Russian unrest' the same as 'Russian intervention'? -just repeating 'its a fork' is no good - the way to improve things is not to slur over things in such a way as to call Russian tanks entering another country , 'pro-Russian unrest' - that is Orwellian newspeak kind of thing - a

3389:@Ansh666. Yepp, prejudices. You've connected being "Eastern European or Indian or something" (Besides, is "something" a decent word, speaking about national origin?!) with a lack of "proper use of punctuation, capitalization, spelling, and grammar". If it isn't prejudices, what is it? - 2780:

I sincerely believe that this is issue over which reasonable people can disagree. Some of the bad faith has been generated by the nature of this nomination (by a sock puppet) and by the intensity of previous discussions. Of course that is no excuse for assuming bad faith towards other

3721:'Putin and his regime have suggested that what is happening in the Donbass is virtually “a struggle for the salvation of the Russians from extermination.” If he backs away from that too quickly, many Russians will view that as “a betrayal” and stop supporting him.' - and talked about 1251:. We have plenty of articles. One for the crisis in Crimea, one for the pro-Russian protests across eastern Ukraine, and one for the war in the Donbass region. That's plenty, and they are in much better shape than this pile of tripe. Please, do us all a favour. Delete this article. 1696:

Are you able to keep your arguments based on Knowledge policy, and not accusing people of working for Putin or coming up with original interpretations of military action? None of all this talk about what a military intervention is even matters. Knowledge is not concerned with the

2608:

I see a lot of bad faith here among those who want to "keep" this "article". Multiple editors, myself included, have been talking about a merger/deletion for ages now. Arbutus' remarks once again miss the mark, as they say "Russia invade Crimea". We know that. That's why we have

735:- article covers a different aspect of the conflict than Crimean crisis. According to reliable sources, Russian intervention is probably not limited to Crimea. You can label that "speculation" but that's irrelevant - what's relevant is that reliable sources discuss the subject. 3703:

politics, not US-Russian relations. Crimean politics are and have been quite different from the rest of Ukraine. Read the history. So I stand by my recommendation that the two topics should not be conflated as they are distinct politically, geographically and temporally.

1869:

its not an 'argument' at all , its a comment - the debate should continue, yes, fine - I personally find it instructive all the dishonesty is on one side , sorry but I do, - that's a comment, not an argument - and the 'flaming' language doesn't help anyone, I hope we

3130:@SuvarS. Indeed, there are no doubts (per multiple RS, not only Russia Today) that Russian territory was shelled multiple times from the Ukrainian territory. The only controversy is who did it (rebels or Ukrainian army). This is an additional reason for this page be 2785:

crystal-balling here but given how events are *currently* unfolding, particularly with the possibility of this supposed "humanitarian" intervention, I would very much like to have this discussion in a week or ten days or so. Hence for now I'm voting keep.

1948:

nothing else but assessing of proofs by discussion starter. You can also notice, that I'm not accusing anyone, but warning. I came to this article, because it was in top of Google results. I wonder: if it had been deleted, what would I see instead? --

1932:. Overall, this article is nothing but redundant, and criticisms about "truth" and "pro-Putin" editors totally miss the mark. I too have been accused of being both a "pro-Russian" and "pro-Ukraine junta" POV pusher, and frankly, I'm tired of it. 368:– It's pointless to have an article that's a virtual duplicate of another. Now if there is further Russian intervention later on, this article might then be appropriate. But that's a story for another time, and hopefully it won't come to that :) 2135:

since it does not conform to the policies. We do not have a policy that every time a new term appears a new article can be created. We have other instruments including moving artices, creating redirects, and expanding content, for this purpose.--

815:

merge proposals already, along the lines mentioned above (all characterized by some extensive sock puppetry and other shenaningans). All of them were rejected. This seems to be an attempt to achieve the desired outcome through other means, i.e.

197: 2875:

half-a-year-lasting Russian invasion, there are lots of reliable sources for it, and there is an international consensus about the matter. So again what you are trying to push is your own assession of proofs, not the problem of "forking". --

679:

is sub-page of this page). There is huge number of sources claiming about current military intervention by Russia in Ukraine. This is allegedly done through (a) direct artillery attacks from Russian territory; (b) sending heavy weapons and

1115:

imo - is that what wp is about now? ( the proposal to delete this , from an editor with 44 edits? what is that about? maybe too new to the project to understand its about increasing knowledge not reducing it, deleting stuff for no reason)

3414:

refers to the uncertainty and general lack of giving a sh*t that I have towards ethnicity. Okay, I know, it was a bit direct and callous, which I need to work on too, but it's definitely being blown out of proportion, people. Kthxbi.

563:

from the very beginning. Now it's even worse, it's being used for speculation about Russia's involvement in the Eastern Ukraine. The speculations about Russia's troops "here and there" are already covered in the respective articles.

1302:

forking already existing content at other articles. If there is a Russian intervention, it is in a particular conflict or situation. We do not need a separate article for the intervention from the situation that was intervened in.

2246:

and telling editors their views are discardable is not form of personal attack. of course it is. I've had my say here anyhow - corrected my spelling , silly me , thought it was spelt appartchik , wasn't a typo or anything .

685: 1920:. Why's that? I don't know what you are talking about with "assessing proofs", or "pro-Putin editors". All I care about is content forking. This is a fork. Russian "involvement" in the War in Donbass is covered at 2673:, I'm well aware that that article has all the information regarding Donetsk, Girkin, Malaysia Airlines 17, &c. It covers all of this on its own, in more detail, and did so first. That is why this is a fork. 1457:

years - its a joke - you smile at the chicanery, you bit by bit drag the project into disrepute, imo. mature people understand that it isn't ends justify means - the means do matter - editing openly and honestly

1771:

Well, now you already know that the discussion starter turned to be a sockpuppet. So my suspicions were somewhat reasonable. But who cares? Let's delete the article, as sockpuppet suggested. That's cool. --

1674:. A military intervention of one state to another is an event of great magnitude by itself. For example, there is a whole bunch of articles about various American military interventions. (One can google it: 131: 126: 135: 3441:

attitude is the one requiring a certain shift before you decide to comment on others' behavior? Please try to cooperate with fellow editors by assuming good faith without attacking them, mocking, etc.

191: 118: 2632:

This is probably the most reasonable comment i've seen so far. Thank you. Im not against merging either, though i would prefer if this was deleted or rewritten as a more concise, factual article. --

1898:

It is funny that on multipe occasions I was accused being a anti-Putin POV pusher (which I obviously reject, as well as I reject being a pro-Putin POV pusher, or, for that matter, any POV-pusher)--

1027:

I disagree. It is still a fork, and the way to improve things is to have a coherent presentation in one article, not to split them over two articles (and possibly someone comes up with the idea of

332: 2120:- if no other article brings together the arc of Russian interventions in Ukraine, I don't see why yu oppose it so vehemently really -it is one phenomenon and needs one correcty titled article 834:

I do think it is a fork and has no place here, but SPI would certainly not harm. We have too many brand new and throwaway accounts editing articles on the Ukrainian crisis with both sides POV.--

3460:

this article needs a merge, or just rename it to Russian Military Intervention in Crimea. We already have topics that have this, so i guess this article violates WP:FORK and crystallballing.--

3684:

Russian meddling in the affairs of its neighbours, as documented by Michael Weiss, is hardly over. As predicted, it seems that the Russian bear is not satiated by simply swallowing Crimea.

2948:

much as direct as in crimea kind of thing, as a single ongoing phenomenon so to speak, and not one article covers it as this article could imo as user:a man without a country also says.

307:– This article is very large. I find it hard to believe that all content is already covered, and oppose simply deleting the article without taking some sort of additional action as well. 1523: 2534:

Address the arguments within the discussion, not the person who started the AfD. There is no reason to close this discussion, there are legitimate concerns regarding this article. --

3183:

What shall I do, my Lord, Father above? I pray that the Holy Spirit grants me the foresight to see into what it is that you are saying. What I care about is policy, and guidelines.

2182:- a Russian intervention article , with that title is needed. policies aren't more important than realities you know. 'your views can be discarded' - spoken like a real apparatchik! 2343:

a subarticle of article about "crisis". It is "crisis" article which is actually to be a subarticle of "intervention", as "crisis" was one of the episodes of the intervention. --

2010:

True. According to publications, the military interventions by Russia in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea (these could be described in two separate sub-articles) are parts of the same

1745:

Oh, spare me the doublethink. If you weren't making implications about the motives of editors, why even bother mentioning Putin? Why not just address Knowledge policy instead? --

1075:'if you mean --' something I didn't say at all - I said intervention , not 'full scale war' - what a stupid straw man - anyway this story is not going away and keeps developing 1402:. Perhaps one might include a lot of content from here to "2014 Crimean crisis" without making "Crimean crisis" unreadable (in fact it is already huge), but it did not happen. 534: 253: 2564:

I have addressed all arguments already (see above). If you want to encourage a sockpuppeteer by continuing the discussion he started, this is up to you, but I am out of here.

2093:

from other articles, which is unacceptable. I see lots of speculation here and crystal-balling. None of that matters. What matters is the forking, and this article is a fork.

233:

and this article is essentially repeating everything that is already covered there. So unless there is further intervention by Russia in the future, this article needs to go.

1569:@electric doyou mind me asking by what obscure alchemy you have been led hither to this rather out the way topic - - to edit wp - for just the fifth time in 4 years or so. 1590:

of wikipedia but this doesn't mean that i must like or endorse every single article i see. Everyone should just take a chill pill and stop being so paranoid all the time. --

3355:. Telling others about alleged "dishonesty" and their ethnicity/country of origin in negative context (as you did) is an example of policy (WP:NPA) violation on your part. 1731:

Where do you see accusations? Whom particularly have I accused? I'm not accusing, I'm warning. Please, don't accuse me of accusing if I actually have accused no one. :) --

1248: 122: 3199:. I accept that there are real reasons why someone might want to retain this article, and I respect Mr Marek's position in this regard. However, yours is not acceptable. 1133:

Main argument by the Russian side about this: many hundreds Russian citizens killed at the Ukraine (and remember that separatist leaders are also Russian citizens) were

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destabilizing part of Ukraine by stealth, through irregulars and volunteers who are nonetheless with their heavy weapons allowed free access across the Russian border

1341:! "War in Crimea" would be improper, and "Crimean crisis" deals only with general/civilian rather than military aspects. Therefore, I still believe this page must be 453: 889:. Russian military and paramilitary activities in and around the Donbass constitute a completely different operation. From the start, this article came off like a 2703: 2614: 1929: 393: 2514:

That has no bearing on the discussion as a whole after so many people have commented. I will strike the nom and sock !vote, though that doesn't mean withdrawal.

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So far, the only confirmed intervention in Ukraine by the Russian military has been in Crimea and nowhere else. The intervention in Crimea is already covered in

1009: 582: 423: 114: 106: 2920:. This started off as a fork of the main article. If it can be rewritten then it's fine by me, but the way it stands is highly disruptive to the encyclopedia. 2452:

You completely missed the point of the discussion. Nobody is disputing that war did not take place within Ukraine. The point being argued is that we already

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arguments too -'highly disruptive to the encyclopedia' ! - what nonsense imo - gross hyperbole) -as the 'humanitarian convoy' of white painted trucks leaves

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Having concealed the use of Russian troops in Crimea, when he protests now that none of his troops are involved in Eastern Ukraine, he sounds disingenuous.

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It doesn't matter that a sockpuppet started it; if other good-faith arguments for deletion exist it cannot be closed under either established procedure (

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I think that is a reasonable position to take. I personally think that it makes more sense to merge what little is here in this mess of an article, per

2074:@RGloucester. There was no actual (active) war in Crimea. But there was Russian military intervention in Crimea (occupation of Crimea, something like 3791: 3772: 3735: 3713: 3694: 3672: 3650: 3636: 3622: 3608: 3590: 3560: 3533: 3503: 3483: 3469: 3450: 3424: 3398: 3382: 3364: 3346: 3324: 3305: 3253: 3238: 3224: 3209: 3178: 3159: 3143: 3134:. In addition, there are numerous RS claiming shelling of Ukrainian army by Russian army, exactly as you said. Also a reason for keeping this page. 3114: 3093: 3052: 3030: 2993: 2975: 2957: 2929: 2884: 2869: 2835: 2813: 2794: 2763: 2739: 2707: 2683: 2664: 2641: 2627: 2595: 2573: 2555: 2523: 2509: 2481: 2442: 2420: 2389: 2352: 2334: 2291: 2256: 2241: 2191: 2173: 2158: 2144: 2129: 2103: 2087: 2063: 2023: 2005: 1957: 1942: 1907: 1879: 1864: 1849: 1834: 1781: 1766: 1740: 1722: 1687: 1664: 1613: 1599: 1578: 1563: 1543: 1500: 1486: 1466: 1448: 1411: 1385: 1370: 1354: 1324: 1296: 1275: 1261: 1201: 1187: 1168: 1150: 1124: 1091: 1070: 1055: 1040: 1022: 996: 969: 953: 932: 906: 873: 843: 829: 799: 774: 744: 725: 704: 641: 618: 594: 573: 546: 527: 508: 475: 445: 415: 383: 356: 322: 298: 265: 242: 100: 3084:

long time ago, but I don't think writing an entire article based on reports of border guards or state propaganda of either nations is a good idea.

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russia invaded crimea, and announced today a "humanitarian mission" would be sent to Ukraine. That doesn't mean it's an invasion, but it could be--

81:. There were two main threads to the delete camp's argument. The first of these is that this article is a fork. Some argued that it is a fork of 3548: 2943: 1454: 1334: 656: 3041:

The border service said Russian forces continue to shell Ukrainian territory, hitting two border posts overnight with artillery and mortar fire

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With all due respect, Sayerslle, but considering the numerous times you got blocked for personal attacks: did it not occur to you before that

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article? There is very little information here that is not there, and what is here can easily be merged, which ultimately makes more sense.

2945:- ymblanter there are notable sources that discuss this Russian intervention, in its various and chameleon forms ,military provocations as 169: 2179: 2014:

campaign by Putin against the Ukraine. Hence one could argue that we also need an "umbrella" article about the entire military campaign.

820:. Oh yeah. I might as well mention that I'll probably be filing an SPI report on the initiator of this proposal and a voter or two above. 2917: 1232: 3040: 3529: 3018: 2551: 2477: 2416: 2287: 2237: 1830: 1762: 1718: 1660: 1636: 1244: 1005: 984: 869: 662: 352: 3284:, which has been pointed out to you before. Also, as RGloucester (IIRC) has said, it's not about the "reality" here (which smacks of 2117: 219: 3828: 3678: 3525: 3394: 3369:

The bit about dishonesty is quoted directly from Sayerslle, and as I explained above I don't care about ethnicity/country of origin

3081: 2880: 2848:, and is notable because one has reliable sources describing the whole thing. It is not a fork. Similarly, nobody suggests to merge 2831: 2547: 2473: 2412: 2348: 2283: 2233: 2059: 1953: 1826: 1777: 1758: 1736: 1714: 1683: 1656: 1192:

and that strelkov bloke. ( just read your 'don't waste time editing wikipedia' - very sound advice contained in that little essay!)

865: 375: 348: 2710:(this page) in sufficient detail. This is not a content fork, but rather an independent sub-page. That's why I believe it must be 2586:(as short-circuiting a discussion between legitimate editors is not in the best interests of "improving or maintaining Knowledge". 2075: 17: 2938:

volunteer marek make a good point - this is hardly the moment to erase this title, (as some seem so desperate to do, a bit

1157: 1112: 2718:), that's fine. But this was not done. I also said that you should not explicitly invite/name specific editors, like you did 1240: 1076: 3410:

Anyways...it's merely an observation; this is a EE topic and I'm used to dealing with horrible Indian English on Knowledge.

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full of russia Today material - it'll probably be warmly received the way things are going round here. - i'm off to watch

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information. Its repetitive and redundant considering many other articles on ukrainian crisis already exist on wikipedia.--

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coherent presentation in one article would need a good overarching allinclusive title - and 'pro-Russian unrest' isn't it

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Is there any reason why you would be opposed to merging what residual content there is that pertains to Crimea to the

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people. Stop using the nominator as a convenient excuse to play roundabout games. You are essentially repeating your

1522:(with or without the year disambiguation) and reduce scope. That's what this article was initially intended as - see 3465: 2637: 2497: 2438: 2114: 1632: 1595: 1559: 238: 2966:. I'm perfectly fine with the title, but like I said, if it can be rewritten then I will have no problem with it. 2803:. If something happens regarding "humanitarian convoys", or whatever, that requires a new article, then so be it. 3810: 3613:

Russian intervention is not limited to crimea - you write, 'The two topics should not be conflated.' - why not?

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attack Ymblanter, through calling him a stooge of the communist party. There is a significant difference here. --

2212:. This is your final warning - keep personal feelings out of this, and opinionated beliefs to a minimum. Address 949: 825: 795: 766: 740: 523: 518:

Note: this account was created on the same day as the deletion discussion was initiated, fancy signature and all.

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articles that cover the information that this article covers. Address the points that people bring up, please,

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Are you one of the authors of the article? Your friendly and welcoming attitude is very much appreciated, LOL.

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33 edits in several years - you overwhelm the encyclopedia with your invaluable contributions. yesterday - '

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The only confirmed military intervention by Russia thus far is in Crimea, which already has it's own article

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politically separate? - putin then , putin now. temporally - a few months. geographically - undeniable.

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Yes, certainly (excluding the part about Orwell). Moreover, main point of many publications is that the

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Pointless fork of already existing article and there is no military intervention by Russia in Ukraine.--

861: 852:. What would have been consensus in the past can change as time progresses and the situation evolves. -- 344: 234: 65: 3764: 1426:

Any information that is here can be merged to the appropriate article. If there is intervention in the

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As it stands right now, this page (in essence "Russian military intervention in Crimea") is considered

3551:. Remove all the post Crimean "eastern Ukraine" material. The two topics should not be conflated. -- 1434:

at that article. Adding any information here on the subject would be forking. Regardless, this is all

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Volunteer Marek, you mention that we have had merger proposals in the past, but may I remind you that

3316: 3313:"I'm going to be honest here: I originally thought you were Eastern European or Indian or something." 2849: 2786: 821: 791: 758: 736: 519: 493: 371: 293: 3731: 3690: 3646: 3618: 3596: 3577: 3249: 3220: 3174: 3110: 3048: 3014: 2989: 2981: 2963: 2953: 2865: 2699: 2660: 2610: 2252: 2187: 2169: 2154: 2140: 2125: 2001: 1925: 1903: 1875: 1860: 1845: 1810: 1574: 1496: 1462: 1395: 1381: 1311: 1292: 1271: 1228: 1220: 1197: 1164: 1120: 1087: 1066: 1051: 1036: 992: 920: 886: 839: 721: 684:(disguised as people on temporary leave or retired from military service). That was the reason for 629: 614: 606: 560: 488: 230: 205: 82: 3403:

You're lucky I actually forgot to unwatch this...by the way, that's not how you ping someone. Use

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Care to provide reasoning? This is not a vote, so your "delete" means nothing without substance.

3288:, to be honest) - nobody is questioning what is going on on the ground, but whether or not it is 3085: 3022: 2857: 1303: 894: 458: 428: 398: 280: 90: 3595:

No objection, if that will end this Afd in a more expeditious fashion. I just thought that the

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Believe it or not, I've actually seen quite a lot of news of that type in the last few months:

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You may think what you want, but it still doesn't erase the fact that the article is a fork of

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content forking. And remember, it's OK to have some redundant content if it helps readability.

3499: 3479: 3442: 3420: 3378: 3342: 3315:- uhh... how about leaving your own prejudices and misperceptions out of this discussion, ey? 3301: 3234: 3192: 2967: 2921: 2727: 2591: 2519: 2377: 1807: 1609: 1539: 1435: 890: 693: 590: 542: 308: 261: 58:

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

64:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

3782: 3709: 3668: 3632: 3604: 3581: 3556: 3513: 3509: 3200: 3150: 3089: 3068: 3026: 2804: 2800: 2754: 2674: 2618: 2535: 2461: 2400: 2271: 2221: 2094: 1933: 1814: 1746: 1702: 1701:, and none of your points address the issue of Knowledge's guidelines on content forking. -- 1644: 1531: 1477: 1439: 1361: 1315: 1252: 902: 853: 336: 3474:

You !voted above to keep; which one do you want? I'd recommend striking the one you don't.

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Your standoffish attitude and bad faith assumptions are really not helping your case here.

1430:, that is covered at that article. We already have a section on Russian involvement in the 1137:. This is not anything new. For example, the entire 300,000 strong Chinese army during the 3285: 2457: 1698: 637: 288: 3599:

article might be a bit long, but in general I am against unnecessary content forking. --

3371:(minus perhaps Harvard professors, which I may have a low opinion of, in a joking manner) 1813:

nonsense over and over as a cheap way to undermine anyone who doesn't agree with you. --

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should be eliminated, and so should this pile of tripe. If there is intervention in the

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arguments that allow you to conveniently ignore valid points made by other people who

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the sockpuppet nominator? I don't give a flaming shit about the sockpuppet, address

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by the Soviet Union), which led to annexation of Crimea - per sources. That's why.

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well I agree - because it can be rewritten, its a wp article, not an untouchable

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supply corridor', 'under a guise of a humanitarian mission' in eastern Ukraine -

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Talk:2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine#Can't we merge this article?

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mentions above would work too (probably the wider "pro-Russian unrest" ones).

1390:@RGlouster. Then let me tell this differently. No, I think this page contains 1138: 633: 2840:

Well, an obvious difference is, if you have read the articles you cite, that

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as a separate page. If anyone wants to properly merge content (as discussed

3512:. If comments have been replied to, they should be striked, not removed. -- 667:(Inserted: we already have a similar page about another geographic region, 1082:- and to delete now would be idiocy imo, pov idiocy - so, I've had my say 2845: 2819: 2046:

About Iraq war. That is a really good example. You've made a mistake: we

1993: 1913: 1310:, then it is written about at that article. If there was intervention in 3073: 1676:

https://www.google.com/search?q=american+military+intervention+wikipedia

2818:

What about your own Iraq War invasion example, with separate articles

3043:' - this is not about 'pro-Russian unrest' or 'Crimean crisis' - ffs. 1988:, at the same time as he loudly appeals to Kiev to halt its advance." 1639:

and other related pages scattered throughout Knowledge; Knowledge is

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if you don't care that dishonest methods seem to be employed wholly

609:. Does seem highly speculative beyond 2014 Crimean crisis article. 3074:

Russia vows “tough response” to Ukraine’s military border shelling

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or not, etc. Sorry if I offend, but, as you say, that's reality.

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.

2853: 2500:. This entire discussion is a violation of rules. Please close. 1008:

presents these events as internal Ukrainian political conflict.

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is a guideline. I fear that you've fallen into the path of the

2722:, who are ready to support your vote (as you already know from 689: 25: 1984:

He is instead suspected of conducting another "maskirovka" -

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or actually link to the userpage if you want them to see it.

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quixotic warrior that aims to right all wrongs in this world

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Common events are by no means a "rather out the way topic".

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pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine does not look unreasonable.--

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absolutely this is an important topic. anyone who looks at

1643:, and this applies to information duplication as well. -- 559:. It was an unneutrally and speculatively titled fork of 3488:

Thanks for fixing; in the future, you can put <s: -->

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not exactly clear on it, but just be careful to avoid a

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suggests that the delete vote is a means of POV-pushing.

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from time to time knows there is much to write about.

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Geographically, politically and temporally separate. --

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Template:Campaignbox 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine

893:, and its open-ended nature has made it attractive for 148: 144: 140: 3195:

and inherently not neutral. This is not the place for

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not an indiscriminate webhost of limitless information

1453:

what do you mean 'none of it has actually happened' ?

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Russian checkpoint on Ukraine border comes under fire

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Russian military activities on the Ukraine, so that

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Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations/Constance Lahaye

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Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations/Constance Lahaye

3351:@Ansh666. Telling people about policies is OK, but 850:

consensus is not absolute, and can change over time

279:

This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (

2493:. Person who started this AfD was identified as a 2322:The "Russian intervention" was part of the crisis. 1924:, and Russian involvement in Crimea is covered at 1249:Timeline of the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 1141:was considered "volunteer force" by Chinese side. 3080:See? I could've started writing an article about 3064:Ukrainian APC with troops breaches Russian border 285:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 August 5 72:). No further edits should be made to this page. 3813:). No further edits should be made to this page. 663:Russian military intervention in Eastern Ukraine 3021:as a less neutral fork of an existing article. 1360:separate on the Russian military intervention. 3082:2014 Ukrainian military intervention in Russia 2704:Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation 2615:Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation 1978:this is from bridget Kendal, in June I think " 1930:Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation 1013:would lead to loosing a lot of valid content. 661:If renamed, we would need an additional page, 1398:(anyone can compare himself!), and therefore 1010:2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine 454:list of Military-related deletion discussions 218: 115:2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine 107:2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine 8: 1520:2014 Russian military intervention in Crimea 1333:- I did not see this page. However, we need 1314:, then it is written about at that article. 581:Note: This debate has been included in the 452:Note: This debate has been included in the 422:Note: This debate has been included in the 394:list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions 392:Note: This debate has been included in the 583:list of Events-related deletion discussions 424:list of Russia-related deletion discussions 2856:. The article we are discussing here is a 1438:, since none of it has actually happened. 1394:of information, which is currently not in 580: 451: 421: 391: 2708:Russian military intervention in Ukraine 1471:Anything about "missiles" is covered in 1078:- Ru wants 'humanitarian intervention' 3549:Russian military intervention in Crimea 3489:after the bullet/indent and </s: --> 2218:people participating in this discussion 2118:nbc report of Russian intervention east 1627:This article is a blatant example of a 1335:Russian military intervention in Crimea 1223:. For matters in the Donbass, there is 657:Russian military intervention in Crimea 45:For an explanation of the process, see 3411: 3329: 3274: 1918:American military intervention in Iraq 1912:We don't have a separate article for 7: 2458:AfDs are not a number-vs-number vote 1992:- so its not a case of comparing to 3718:a Russian analyst said this in july 3292:enough, whether it is a legitimate 2918:Timeline of the 2014 Crimean crisis 2844:is a legitimate sub-article of the 2669:As one of the main contributors to 1786:Are you going to continue with the 1233:Timeline of the 2014 Crimean crisis 3019:2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 1637:2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 1245:2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 1006:2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 985:2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine 24: 41:deletion review on 2014 August 15 1217:Strong delete/merge, pref delete 960:Thank you. That explains a lot. 692:officers were killed in Ukraine 29: 3663:read up on Crimean politics. -- 2216:, and do not make jabs against 2076:Occupation of the Baltic states 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1241:Timeline of the war in Donbass 1: 3330:prejudices and misperceptions 2208:- please have a good read at 283:). I have transcluded it to 3280:, emphasis mine) and follow 3277:by your side of the argument 3215:title above stands. it wont. 1031:, and we will have three).-- 3792:23:31, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3773:18:58, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3736:22:48, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3714:20:34, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3695:19:34, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3673:19:20, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3651:19:14, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3637:18:42, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3623:18:32, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3609:17:12, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3591:16:56, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3561:16:50, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3534:08:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3504:18:10, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3484:17:51, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3470:16:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3451:19:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3425:17:38, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3399:06:37, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3383:04:45, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3365:01:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC) 3347:21:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3325:21:31, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3306:19:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3254:18:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3239:17:51, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3225:16:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3210:16:05, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3179:15:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3160:15:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3144:15:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3115:11:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3094:10:43, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3053:09:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 3031:09:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2994:09:23, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2976:09:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2958:08:40, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2930:08:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2885:10:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2870:08:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2836:06:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2814:23:17, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2795:23:11, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2764:21:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2740:20:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2726:) because that falls under 2684:20:35, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2665:20:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2642:19:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2628:19:50, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2596:19:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2574:19:07, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2556:18:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2524:17:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2510:17:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2482:18:27, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2443:17:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2421:18:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2390:17:23, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2353:10:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 2335:16:37, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2292:18:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2257:16:54, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2242:16:25, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2192:16:11, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2174:16:02, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2159:15:53, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2145:15:47, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2130:15:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2104:14:56, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2088:13:33, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2064:11:56, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2024:14:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 2006:09:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1958:08:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1943:06:04, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1908:06:03, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1880:11:46, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 1865:11:36, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 1850:11:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 1835:11:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 1782:10:34, 12 August 2014 (UTC) 1767:09:47, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1741:08:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1723:05:51, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1688:05:45, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1665:04:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1614:23:09, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1600:00:01, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 1579:22:21, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1564:21:17, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1544:20:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1501:22:42, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1487:22:21, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1467:21:53, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1449:20:10, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1412:19:34, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1400:this page is not a POV fork 1386:19:31, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1371:19:25, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1355:19:19, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1325:19:02, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1297:18:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1276:18:31, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1262:18:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1202:15:10, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1188:15:04, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1169:14:43, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1151:14:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1125:12:12, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1092:17:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1071:17:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1056:17:41, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1041:17:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 1023:16:00, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 997:11:12, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 970:14:25, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 954:11:08, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 933:14:21, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 907:07:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 874:05:00, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 844:11:15, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 830:06:06, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 811:- there actually have been 800:04:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 775:04:14, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 745:02:26, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 547:17:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 528:04:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC) 357:16:37, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 266:17:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 101:21:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC) 3845: 2109:August 2014 (UTC)I agree. 1798:points, and the points of 1633:2014 insurgency in Donbass 1339:this page under discussion 1178:Afganistan and elsewhere). 726:23:42, 9 August 2014 (UTC) 705:23:14, 9 August 2014 (UTC) 642:18:28, 9 August 2014 (UTC) 619:20:55, 6 August 2014 (UTC) 595:14:51, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 574:11:55, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 533:!Vote struck as sock; see 509:09:52, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 476:09:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 446:09:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 416:09:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 384:06:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 323:04:12, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 299:04:08, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 243:03:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 1029:2014 Civil War in Ukraine 47:Knowledge:Deletion review 3829:Pages at deletion review 3802:Please do not modify it. 3508:I've fixed that up, per 3353:personal attacks are not 2368:. Deletion of this page 2320:@RGloucester. You tell: 682:their military personnel 252:Nom struck as sock; see 61:Please do not modify it. 3391:A man without a country 3102:The Barbarian Invasions 2877:A man without a country 2828:A man without a country 2345:A man without a country 2180:Russia prepares for war 2056:A man without a country 1950:A man without a country 1774:A man without a country 1733:A man without a country 1680:A man without a country 1530:to one of the articles 686:international sanctions 3726:not just history books 3282:WP:No personal attacks 2706:describe the issue of 2698:@RGloucester. Neither 2264:attack you as a person 3149:wasn't intervention. 2842:2003 invasion of Iraq 2824:2003 invasion of Iraq 2372:and decided to keep. 2266:. On the other hand, 2052:2003 invasion of Iraq 1080:bbc world news Europe 2850:Battle of Stalingrad 2370:was discussed before 2200:"spoken like a real 983:, clearly a fork of 3597:2014 Crimean crisis 3578:2014 Crimean crisis 3490:at the end, giving 3357:My very best wishes 3337:Harvard professor. 3136:My very best wishes 3015:2014 Crimean crisis 2964:2014 Crimean crisis 2732:My very best wishes 2700:2014 Crimean crisis 2611:2014 Crimean crisis 2566:My very best wishes 2502:My very best wishes 2382:My very best wishes 2378:a matter of concern 2327:My very best wishes 2164:can be discarded.-- 2080:My very best wishes 2050:a separate article 2016:My very best wishes 1926:2014 Crimean crisis 1811:association fallacy 1625:Merge and redirect: 1404:My very best wishes 1396:2014 Crimean crisis 1347:My very best wishes 1229:2014 Crimean crisis 1221:2014 Crimean crisis 1180:My very best wishes 1143:My very best wishes 1015:My very best wishes 962:My very best wishes 925:My very best wishes 921:2014 Crimean crisis 887:2014 Crimean crisis 697:My very best wishes 630:2014 Crimean crisis 607:2014 Crimean crisis 561:2014 Crimean Crisis 489:2014 Crimean crisis 231:2014 Crimean crisis 83:2014 Crimean crisis 3185:WP:Content forking 1476:created ages ago. 714:interpretermag.com 277:Automated comment: 77:The result was 3372: 2984:! or anything. 1928:. We've also got 1840:the project imo. 1551:Delete or rewrite 1329:Good point about 778: 761:comment added by 597: 566:Moscow Connection 549: 478: 474: 448: 444: 418: 414: 374:comment added by 301: 268: 53: 52: 39:was subject to a 3836: 3804: 3785: 3699:Yup, read up on 3662: 3584: 3575: 3518: 3462:Arbutus the tree 3370: 3273:mentality (e.g. 3203: 3153: 2807: 2757: 2677: 2634:Electricitydrive 2621: 2540: 2466: 2435:Arbutus the tree 2405: 2276: 2226: 2097: 1990:putins games bbc 1936: 1819: 1751: 1707: 1649: 1592:Electricitydrive 1556:Electricitydrive 1532:User:RGloucester 1480: 1442: 1364: 1318: 1255: 858: 818:WP:FORUMSHOPPING 777: 755: 532: 502: 499: 496: 472: 470: 464: 442: 440: 434: 412: 410: 404: 386: 341: 319: 313: 291: 275: 251: 235:Constance Lahaye 223: 222: 208: 156: 138: 63: 33: 32: 26: 3844: 3843: 3839: 3838: 3837: 3835: 3834: 3833: 3819: 3818: 3817: 3811:deletion review 3800: 3783: 3656: 3655:I suggest that 3582: 3569: 3532: 3514: 3458:Merge or rename 3332:? I don't care 3317:Volunteer Marek 3271:WP:BATTLEGROUND 3201: 3193:crystal-balling 3151: 2805: 2787:Volunteer Marek 2755: 2730:. This is all. 2724:this discussion 2675: 2619: 2554: 2536: 2480: 2462: 2419: 2401: 2290: 2272: 2240: 2222: 2095: 1934: 1833: 1815: 1765: 1747: 1721: 1703: 1663: 1645: 1629:WP:Content fork 1478: 1440: 1362: 1316: 1253: 1175:entire campaign 946:MyMoloboaccount 872: 854: 822:Volunteer Marek 792:Volunteer Marek 763:203.211.151.230 756: 737:Volunteer Marek 520:Volunteer Marek 500: 497: 494: 468: 463: 459: 438: 433: 429: 408: 403: 399: 369: 355: 337: 317: 309: 297: 289: 165: 129: 113: 110: 70:deletion review 59: 37:This discussion 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3842: 3840: 3832: 3831: 3821: 3820: 3816: 3815: 3796: 3795: 3794: 3776: 3775: 3757: 3756: 3755: 3754: 3753: 3752: 3751: 3750: 3749: 3748: 3747: 3746: 3745: 3744: 3743: 3742: 3741: 3740: 3739: 3738: 3564: 3563: 3542: 3541: 3540: 3539: 3538: 3537: 3536: 3520: 3454: 3453: 3435: 3434: 3433: 3432: 3431: 3430: 3429: 3428: 3427: 3408: 3387: 3386: 3385: 3267: 3266: 3265: 3264: 3263: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3258: 3257: 3256: 3163: 3162: 3146: 3124: 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