580:
pop culture references in number articles, it states that "In general, the number needs to be conspicuous and important to the story to be worth mentioning in the number articles." A number on a character's helmet or on a prison jumpsuit or a cell, seen in passing and AFAIK not commented on within
754:
in which the subject is discussed directly in detail. That argument has certainly been consistent, and the failure to respond to it substantively has also been consistent. You seem like a bright enough fellow so your claim of being confused seems a little disingenuous. By the way, now that you're
581:
the story, is not "conspicuous and important to the story." Maybe if
Sideshow Bob had song a parody of a song from Les Miz while wearing his jumpsuit, but simply showing up on screen for a few moments? No. And the one supposed real life example is unreferenced original research.
749:
What I said above was that I don't question that each of the passing references noted in the article happened so adding a source that mentions the mention is not the issue. I have said from the start that notability is the issue and notability is established by the existence of
132:
which as a grouping tell us nothing about the number, Les
Miserables, the fiction from which the trivial references are drawn, their relationship to each other or the real world. The number itself does not appear to be significant as a number per the guidelines laid out at
336:
per Norton and Roi. I never heard of the number, but this is one that's actually significant because of pop culture references, not in spite of. Besides being a code for Hugo's Les
Miserables, it's the zip code for Amonate, Virginia whose name itself (MN8) is
629:, you're not seeming to understand that it is not a free pass for the article. The storage medium of Knowledge (XXG) does not mean that the articles on Knowledge (XXG) do not have to adhere to other policies and guidelines.
657:
24601 is a very significant number. It used to be Jean
Valjean's prisoner number in Les Miserables, and is sung out in many performances. I could have sworn to see it used in some cartoons involving prisoners. Notable
537:
does not justify this article. My main point, which you haven't answered, is that a handful of passing references to the number as throwaway jokes in cartoon shows and the like do not add up to cultural significance.
707:
Can you, or anyone claiming that this number is notable, point to the reliable sources in which the appearance of the number on
Skinner's helmet or Sideshow Bob's prison jumpsuit are addressed "directly in detail"?
562:
does not prohibit number articles that consist mainly or solely of cultural references. That is my extended justification for keeping this article. I do not intend to engage in further debate on my position.
508:
I was countering Otto's claim that cultural associations in number articles have to refer to the real world. For other examples of number articles that consist entirely of cultural references, see
645:
per
Matthew and others. It is indeed notable (although a few sources would be nice). nb: article fails to state that the number is always spoken digit-by-digit: 2-4-6-0-1 — as in the lyrics. --
51:. The subject deserves a mention in the main article, but probably not notable enough to stand on its own. Enough information is in the section; anything else is coincidental, trivial trivia.
170:. I don't see how a redirect would hurt, though, and it would have the benefit of being able to use the current material in the main article (as "merge and delete" isn't an option). --
235:
Sourcing is not the issue here. I accept without question that the number indeed appeared in every instance asserted in the article. The issue here, as noted in the nomination, is
128:- this is a thinly-disguised pop culture article, serving exactly the same "spot the reference" function as so many now-deleted "...in popular culture" articles served. It is a
118:
576:
You're certainly free not to continue to discuss your position but that doesn't mean I'm not going to continue to point out flaws in it. While WP:NUM certainly doesn't
306:; the examples given in this list are of such minor importance to the works mentioned that they don't justify an enire article. Just a list of small "in-jokes".
158:, from where it's presently linked. It doesn't seem to be large enough to actually need its own article, and if it did it shouldn't be this one, but rather
163:
495:
While those two numbers contain pop culture references, they are not made up entirely of pop culture references. That's the difference.
264:
91:
86:
17:
223:
95:
725:
134:
359:
138:
724:: Otto - you said above "Sourcing is not the issue here"; now you say that sourcing is an issue. Your deletion nomination uses
78:
159:
554:
separate popular culture references plus a real world instance adds up to cultural significance as far as I am concerned.
670:
Notability has been established for 24601 above and beyond other numbers, cemented by the multiple cultural references.
370:, along with a single statement along the lines of "Also a popular choice of prisoner number in fiction in reference to
814:
534:
36:
813:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
759:
by any chance have any sources that discuss any of these passing mentions of the number directly in detail?
799:
763:
740:
712:
674:
662:
649:
633:
616:
585:
567:
542:
524:
499:
486:
457:
420:
400:
382:
353:
341:
328:
310:
298:
283:
267:
251:
226:
206:
174:
145:
60:
736:. This deletion dsicussion would be less confusing if you could stick to one consistent set of arguments.
795:
358:
The use as a prisoner number is covered well enough by the paragraph in the Les Mis article, so, per
413:
82:
292:
646:
183:
787:
371:
319:
155:
47:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
291:
I dont think we should start articles on notabilities of numbers. I think that would be too
438:
395:
307:
729:
626:
610:
559:
555:
467:
409:
243:
129:
791:
517:
751:
737:
564:
521:
483:
434:
417:
367:
338:
74:
66:
56:
733:
684:
237:
760:
709:
671:
630:
582:
539:
513:
509:
496:
454:
412:
permits articles on numbers with significant cultural associations (see, for example
350:
248:
142:
613:
324:
112:
466:
Cultural associations do not have to be links to "real world" events and people.
659:
475:
471:
433:
as the prisoner number of a historically and culturally significant real person
379:
167:
295:
280:
53:
697:
that are independent of the subject...."Significant coverage" means that
276:
171:
162:
or something like that, just like all the references to 42 are at
807:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
786:
per Jao. This is certainly a meme, even if there is a flavor of
470:
has a section on numbers that appear in fiction. Articles on
790:
about it; but it has nothing to do with the number as such.
214:, because of multiple mainstream references in shows like
349:
per above. This is nothing more than a list of trivia.
164:
The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy cultural references
108:
104:
100:
263:
The number appears to have a cultural significance. --
689:
A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received
416:). Article establishes multiple cultural references.
366:
all non-trivial, non-prisoner-related properties to
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
625:As is apparently par for the course when you cite
378:to 10000 (number), as with any other such number.
817:). No further edits should be made to this page.
699:sources address the subject directly in detail
445:that amount to a series of in-jokes; cultural
394:a deletion criteria? It is arguably notable.
8:
482:sections with diverse cultural references.
732:as benchmarks of notability; now you cite
558:permits cultural references to fiction.
374:." The article can then be changed to a
429:46664 has actual real-world cultural
160:Cultural references to Les Misérables
130:directory of loosely associated items
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
726:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (numbers)
392:thinly-disguised pop culture article
135:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (numbers)
449:are not the same thing as cultural
360:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Numbers
24:
609:— Notable number, apparently.
265:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )
1:
222:, but again, add sources. --
439:a series of charity concerts
224:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles
701:...Significant coverage is
441:. This number has cultural
834:
800:17:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
764:12:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
741:10:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
713:18:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
675:18:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
663:15:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
650:12:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
634:12:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
617:12:42, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
586:15:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
568:15:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
543:14:56, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
533:That other such articles
525:13:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
500:13:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
487:13:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
458:12:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
421:11:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
401:09:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
383:04:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
354:04:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
342:01:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
61:05:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
810:Please do not modify it.
705:but less than exclusive.
329:23:43, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
311:23:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
299:21:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
284:19:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
268:16:56, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
252:18:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
227:16:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
207:14:39, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
175:14:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
146:13:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
139:the relevant Wikiproject
32:Please do not modify it.
437:and later the title of
380:Confusing Manifestation
691:significant coverage
320:Les Misérables#24601
156:Les Misérables#24601
48:Les Misérables#24601
755:talking again, do
316:Merge and redirect
152:Merge and redirect
798:
703:more than trivial
825:
812:
794:
752:reliable sources
695:reliable sources
203:
201:
199:
197:
195:
116:
98:
34:
833:
832:
828:
827:
826:
824:
823:
822:
821:
815:deletion review
808:
792:Septentrionalis
518:144000 (number)
193:
191:
189:
187:
185:
166:rather than at
89:
73:
70:
44:The result was
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
831:
829:
820:
819:
803:
802:
773:
772:
771:
770:
769:
768:
767:
766:
744:
743:
716:
715:
678:
677:
665:
652:
639:
638:
637:
636:
620:
619:
603:
602:
601:
600:
599:
598:
597:
596:
595:
594:
593:
592:
591:
590:
589:
588:
571:
570:
546:
545:
528:
527:
503:
502:
490:
489:
461:
460:
435:Nelson Mandela
424:
423:
414:46664 (number)
403:
385:
372:Les Misérables
368:10000 (number)
356:
344:
331:
313:
301:
286:
270:
257:
256:
255:
254:
230:
229:
209:
177:
123:
122:
75:24601 (number)
69:
67:24601 (number)
64:
42:
41:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
830:
818:
816:
811:
805:
804:
801:
797:
793:
789:
785:
782:
781:
775:
774:
765:
762:
758:
753:
748:
747:
746:
745:
742:
739:
735:
731:
727:
723:
720:
719:
718:
717:
714:
711:
706:
704:
700:
696:
692:
686:
683:Quoting from
682:
681:
680:
679:
676:
673:
669:
666:
664:
661:
656:
653:
651:
648:
647:Jack Merridew
644:
641:
640:
635:
632:
628:
624:
623:
622:
621:
618:
615:
612:
608:
605:
604:
587:
584:
579:
575:
574:
573:
572:
569:
566:
561:
557:
553:
550:
549:
548:
547:
544:
541:
536:
532:
531:
530:
529:
526:
523:
519:
515:
514:6346 (number)
511:
510:6236 (number)
507:
506:
505:
504:
501:
498:
494:
493:
492:
491:
488:
485:
481:
477:
473:
469:
465:
464:
463:
462:
459:
456:
452:
448:
444:
440:
436:
432:
428:
427:
426:
425:
422:
419:
415:
411:
407:
404:
402:
399:
398:
397:~ Infrangible
393:
389:
386:
384:
381:
377:
373:
369:
365:
361:
357:
355:
352:
348:
345:
343:
340:
335:
332:
330:
327:
326:
322:, per above.
321:
317:
314:
312:
309:
305:
302:
300:
297:
294:
290:
287:
285:
282:
278:
274:
271:
269:
266:
262:
259:
258:
253:
250:
246:
245:
240:
239:
234:
233:
232:
231:
228:
225:
221:
217:
213:
210:
208:
205:
204:
181:
178:
176:
173:
169:
165:
161:
157:
153:
150:
149:
148:
147:
144:
140:
136:
131:
127:
120:
114:
110:
106:
102:
97:
93:
88:
84:
80:
76:
72:
71:
68:
65:
63:
62:
59:
58:
55:
50:
49:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
809:
806:
783:
779:
777:
756:
721:
702:
698:
694:
690:
688:
667:
654:
642:
627:WP:NOT#PAPER
611:WP:NOT#PAPER
606:
577:
551:
479:
451:significance
450:
446:
442:
431:significance
430:
405:
396:
391:
387:
375:
363:
362:, I suggest
346:
333:
323:
315:
303:
288:
272:
260:
242:
236:
219:
215:
211:
184:
179:
151:
125:
124:
52:
46:redirect to
45:
43:
31:
28:
480:Pop Culture
476:47 (number)
472:42 (number)
337:interesting
308:Masaruemoto
168:42 (number)
796:PMAnderson
447:references
443:references
238:notability
216:South Park
182:as above.
738:Gandalf61
658:indeed.--
565:Gandalf61
522:Gandalf61
484:Gandalf61
418:Gandalf61
339:Mandsford
788:WP:SYNTH
761:Otto4711
710:Otto4711
672:Alansohn
631:Otto4711
583:Otto4711
540:Otto4711
497:Resolute
455:Otto4711
376:redirect
351:Resolute
347:Redirect
304:Redirect
289:Redirect
273:Redirect
249:Otto4711
220:Simpsons
180:Redirect
143:Otto4711
119:View log
722:Comment
614:Matthew
364:merging
293:trivial
92:protect
87:history
784:rename
730:WP:NUM
660:Kylohk
578:forbid
560:WP:NUM
556:WP:NUM
468:WP:NUM
410:WP:NUM
244:WP:NOT
137:or by
126:Delete
96:delete
778:Merge
552:Eight
535:exist
478:have
296:Corpx
186:: -->
113:views
105:watch
101:links
16:<
734:WP:N
728:and
685:WP:N
668:Keep
655:Keep
643:Keep
607:Keep
516:and
474:and
406:Keep
388:Keep
334:Keep
325:Will
281:Deor
275:per
261:Keep
241:and
218:and
212:Keep
202:<
109:logs
83:talk
79:edit
780:or
757:you
693:in
390:Is
318:to
277:Jao
172:Jao
154:to
117:– (
687::
520:.
512:,
453:.
408:-
279:.
247:.
141:.
111:|
107:|
103:|
99:|
94:|
90:|
85:|
81:|
57:13
54:Sr
776:'
200:t
198:n
196:a
194:i
192:d
190:a
188:R
121:)
115:)
77:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.