1334:- have expressed their appreciation of my activities here at Knowledge and elsewhere and thus gave me a sign that they care about the same issues I occupy myself with --- if you like to call those "friends" you may do so (even though I have nothing else to do with them - but in times of Facebook the term "friends" obviously doesn't mean much anymore ;-) Since I know very few Knowledge users whose primary field of activity is "AFD", "notability", etc., those were not on my list --- But you surely will not hold against me that I posted my question about discographies as "reliable sources" at
421:... and I always thought Knowledge being an encyclopedia where information is provided even for things not available elsewhere on the internet and thus helping people who search for information about little known facts - but that may have been my false belief (counting "GHits" instead of arguing seems to be the thing to do ;-) ----- My motivation for building a "Country Turtle Records" article (stub) has been simply because the sister record label "
203:
1370:
1073:
569:
429:'s blues output should be supplemented by its sister label founded to release country music ... Both existing articles (Don Kent, Mamlish Records - which I built in 2006) have never since been doubted for their notability !!! (I apologize for my English - this is not my mother tongue) ------- Meanwhile I have added a Country Turtle Records discography to my American Music site
1360:
1359:: Meanwhile I have added one or two references to the article, and - since I don't know if I referenced the statement "CT was the first label to release The Dixon Brothers' prewar recordings" in a proper way - the following explanations for those "not familiar with classification systems for music": 1. All prewar Dixon Brothers tracks are listed in
674:(notability not to be doubted - please read their article) pre-war recordings on vinyl, 2. Record labels of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s naturally cannot bring forth "GHits" the way labels of the computer age do; and, btw: Meanwhile I added references with "reliable sources containing significant coverage" to the
1372:; 5. Knowing the release dates of all the re-releases (CT 6001 in 1973, all others later) it becomes clear that Country Turtle was the first label to re-release The Dixon Brothers' prewar recordings - n'est-ce pas? This may sound like "original research" --- For me it's just putting three and three together !
1206:
You surely have noticed, that I not only asked in a "neutral" way, but even encouraged those I asked to contradict ("could you please be so kind as to have a look at this and tell me if I'm completely wrong in my opinion about that label's notability !?!"), since my motivation is to find out if my
682:
articles, so claiming those as non notable is yesterday's newspaper ;-) --- Sorry if I may have failed to reference this correctly, but I'm not a
Knowledge expert (and never will, even if you permanently advise me to read this and that of those here guidelines - I do this and up to now have always
1139:
Still I have an ambivalent feeling thinking about what nice discographies I'd be able to create if'n I wasted (?) my time in this here nitpickin' process - but I admit it's also challenging - so let's go on: What about that JEMF Quarterly review I added as reference ? You forgot (?) to comment on
315:
This record label has no significant coverage I can find, and when I tried to speedy it, it was declined on the basis that it was founded by a notable person, however this argument isn't valid in that notability isn't inherited. So therefore I am bringing this up before a community discussion on
1290:
StefanWirz and I have communicated in the past on Talk pages of
Knowledge on questions relating to discographies of country and blues records. I contributed my vote because I believe that the Dixon Brothers are significant figures in the history of country music. Anyone seeking to understand the
637:
Just search the resp. files for "country turtle" and you'll find what's individually written there about that label; The first reference quotes Pat Conte's liner notes to CT-6000, the second lists all tracks of CT-6001 and the third lists both CT-6000 and CT-6002 as part of The Dixon
Brother's
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1267:(ec) I already state I did not have a problem with the tone of the message, but it does nothing that you contacted 8 people (friends?) who did not seem in any way involved with the article in question. (a case could be made for contacting Bruce1ee, as he created the related
731:
Codf1977, so you meanwhile found 'em (in your previous message: "cant find any coverage of
Country Turtle Records"), but can't accept 'em - that's quite another story ;-) Let's see what this here "discussion" brings forth from other participants than the usual crowd ...
935:
There is nothing wrong with the books, but they don't cover any of the information given in the lead. How do I know they were set up by Don Kent? or that it was the first label to release the Dixon
Brothers' prewar material on vinyl? You need sources for that.
1121:. Linthead does not say explicitely say they were the first to do so, just that they did. It also doesn't say it was prewar material. The statement " Country turtle released two albums from the Dixon brothers" seems to be all you can get from that source.
1090:
I am not gonna dispute the reliability of these sources, but if they even mention
Country turtle records themselfs it is a trivial mention. For example, the Linthead stomp book says: "Albums and CD reissues of the Dixons brothers music include
880:
As long as the article is accurate, it appears that this label has published some interesting artists, so the article may provide some information that is not easily found on the web. This information may be useful to a future researcher.
786:
652:
I fail to see how what you listed above qualifies as reliable sources containing significant coverage. I don't consider disographies to be "significant coverage". Perhaps you could enlighten me? Because I just don't see it.
471:
to understand why this music label is not notable enough for inclusion into
Knowledge. In the case of the link you mentioned on your site, unfortunately that cannot be used as it is not considered a reliable source. The
432:- so in case those wise here folk decide against Knowledge "notability", people wondering about information about CTR may find what they're searching for via google ... Just wait until the google robots did their job ;-)
167:
1154:
I added it later, but here it is again: "The same goes for the JEMF review, it may have some effect on the notability of the album, but unless
Country Turtle itself is also discussed it is irrelevant for this AFD."
1102:
I am not familiar with classification systems for music, but (Country turtle 6000) & (Country turtle 6002) seem to be the classification names of the two albums, not a mention of
Country Turtle Records
790:
1072:' article to verify the fact, that CT was the first label to re-release their prewar recordings (referenced by Patrick Huber: Linthead stomp: the creation of country music in the Piedmont South)
562:: You may (or may not) want to have a look at the three references (found by googling ;-) I meanwhile added to embellish the article: 1. Documenting the American South: Dorsey Dixon, 1897-1968
1291:
discographical history of the Dixon
Brothers would benefit from the presence of Country Turtle article in Knowledge. You may find this argument unconvincing, but I would ask you not to breach
1108:
If we look at the Allmusic, very nice the album is reviewed there, but Country turtle is not mentioned in the review, so I don't see why it is relevant. Keep in mind notability is not
1039:
and I fail to see how Country Turtle meets them. Please also note that if this is such an important historical resource, than why did nobody publish a proper book about them yet?
161:
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1274:, but they wisely stayed away from the discussion here. Doughill and Mick Gold on the other hand showed up here and voted keep based on "its interesting" and "may be useful"
1112:. The same goes for the JEMF review, it may have some effect on the notability of the album, but unless Country Turtle itself is also discussed it is irrelevant for this AFD.
1065:, which has a review of the first CT album of The Dixon Brothers ; 2. A review in the John Edwards Memorial Foundation Quarterly of the second CT album "Gambler's Lament"
697:
The issue her is one of "is Country Turtle Records notable ?" and to decide that WP has long standing poilices, guidelines and conventions. In the case of companies (see
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about this AFD, 3 of which voted keep in result. The messages themselves were neutral, but as AFD's are frequently archived with less than 4 four votes this smells like
122:
793:(ignoring blogs and articles about turtles!). I believe there is sufficient coverage of this record label in secondary sources to establish notability. For example
339:
1365:; 3. By comparing all the tracks listed in the first source with the CT track lists of the second source you may easily find out, that CT re-released some of the
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Sorry but I didn't know that there is such a thing as an "WP AfD template" and I fear I don't have the time to ever learn about all those Knowledge specifica.
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found them to be interpretable in one or another way - they just don't have anything about "Country Turtle Records" ;-), but one of American Music ;-)
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views (as a relative non-insider of all those Knowledge rules) are perhaps completely wrong --- and one of those I asked just did that: Contradict
82:
1062:: Please take into account that I meanwhile added to the article two (hopefully reliable ;-) secondary sources as references: 1. allmusic.com
715:, and independent of the subject. A single independent source is almost never sufficient for demonstrating the notability of an organization.
1313:. If they are so important to the understanding of the Dixon brothers, feel free to include a bit about them in the Dixon brothers article.
1369:(not postwar) recordings; 4. The information about all the vinyl and CD re-releases of the Dixon Brothers' prewar material can be found at
1117:
With regards to "Linthead stomp" being a source for CT being the first label re-release their prewar recordings, I find this borderline
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Sorry I have lookd at thoes links but cant find any coverage of Country Turtle Records so I do not see how they help - please read
149:
545:) 10:00, 27 June 2010 (UTC) ... but you may just as well start another notability/deletion procedure for that label, ArcAngel ;-)
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Pleased to "enlighten" you with some facts you obviously never heard of: 1. Country Turtle was the first label reissuing the
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I just did a search of Google and Google Books and came up with nothing. If it is a real label, it is amazingly obscure.
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to me; posting anything (other than a WP AfD template) which has a link to a AfD and ask someone to look at it is IMO.
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articles have been tagged with the appropriate issues as they do not appear to have established notability either.
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Because it is preserving early recorded music which was originally recorded in a much more perishable format.
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48:. The sources found by altering the search terms swung this in the direction of a keep, though only just.
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is fascinating and notable. The history of country music and blues is a history of small record labels.
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I checked the links you posted and all of them only mention the name, nothing else. This is not
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and at the four notable (i.e. with a Knowledge article) artists I added to the label's roster:
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
1337:, or would you ? I'm striving for (new) wisdom, not to impose the little I got on others ;-)
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370:- agree no mater what the company does or who starts it, it needs significant coverage of
568:, 3. Patrick Huber: Linthead stomp: the creation of country music in the Piedmont South
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I selected those I sent my question for advice to those people who - on my talk page
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I advocate that this article be kept as it is about a notable historical resource --
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595:) 12:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Meanwhile found out two more "notables" to the roster:
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this label. I only came up with 9 Ghits after weeding out all the Knowledge hits.
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1395:. Also, in this case source number 2 (your own website) is not a reliable source.
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where you'll find further arguments for a "Keep" for small record labels like CTR
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article). Yes one of them disagreed with you and another posted on your talkpage
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Could you explain why you see Country Turtle as a "notable historical resource"?
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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What is the problem with the sources (especially the books) cited on the page?
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Knowledge isn't about keeping "little known facts". I recommend that you read
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Search for "Country Turtle" not "Country Turtle Records". See my vote below. —
566:
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417:(what else ;-) Reasons (as I stated in the discussion page to that article)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_Post_War_Blues
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is not a valid argument and you make no attempt to show the record is
1068:; you may also have a look at the "Discographical data" included in
717:". None of the links you have provided show that level of coverage.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
1035:. The criteria to be notable for an organization are given at
982:
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228:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
1362:; 2. The track lists of CT-6000 and CT-6002 are given at
533:: I had a strong deja vu feeling and just found out why:
1389:
synthesis of published material that advances a position
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It may seem simple to you, but it is an obvious case of
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discography --- not too difficult a task, ain't it ;-)
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With all due respect, this seems an argument based on
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if it has been the subject of significant coverage in
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746:please do not confuse "mentions" with "coverage".
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1420:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1233:to the top; I agree it has the fragrance of
340:list of Business-related deletion discussions
248:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
218:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has
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1309:The problem is here that notability is not
394:list of Music-related deletion discussions
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222:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
1182:posted notifications on the talkpages of
1033:argument to avoid in deletion discussions
905:Argument to avoid in deletion discussions
392:: This debate has been included in the
338:: This debate has been included in the
242:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
374:and this does not exist in this case.
7:
899:whether it is accurate as it has no
1029:"it contains valuable information"
985:those statements can be verified.
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903:and "being useful" is a typical
565:, 2. Folk Music Performer Index
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18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
779:"Country Turtle" LP -wikipedia
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959:This simply fails wikipedia
791:over 50 general Google hits
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59:Penny for your thoughts?
1413:Please do not modify it.
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1099:(Country turtle 6002),."
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839:Dixon Brothers' material
783:"Country Turtle Records"
711:. Such sources must be
504:Regent of the Seatopians
63:16:02, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
32:Please do not modify it.
581:North Carolina Ramblers
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1178:I just found out that
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70:Country Turtle Records
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837:as per Bruce1ee. The
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816:significant coverage
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895:There is no way to
232:by counting votes.
211:not a majority vote
1209:] my opinion !!!
1093:Beyond black smoke
1070:The Dixon Brothers
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162:free images
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1374:StefanWirz
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1253:StefanWirz
1211:StefanWirz
1142:StefanWirz
1076:StefanWirz
1031:, another
967:criteria.
961:notability
734:StefanWirz
685:StefanWirz
657:ArcAngel
640:StefanWirz
605:StefanWirz
601:Blind Andy
589:StefanWirz
547:StefanWirz
539:StefanWirz
484:ArcAngel
434:StefanWirz
349:ArcAngel
320:ArcAngel
216:discussion
1311:inherited
1297:Mick gold
1235:canvasing
1184:9 editors
1140:that ...
1110:inherited
843:Mick gold
401:• Gene93k
272:canvassed
266:canvassed
225:consensus
1239:Codf1977
1228:notavote
1176:Comment:
923:DougHill
883:DougHill
807:Bruce1ee
748:Codf1977
719:Codf1977
713:reliable
676:Don Kent
625:Codf1977
521:Bruce1ee
517:Comment.
474:Don Kent
427:Don Kent
376:Codf1977
366:- Fails
304:username
298:{{subst:
292:username
286:{{subst:
276:username
270:{{subst:
260:username
254:{{subst:
123:View log
1357:Comment
1190:to me.
1103:itself.
1060:Comment
860:notable
705:notable
699:WP:CORP
560:Comment
531:Comment
457:Comment
368:WP:CORP
268:users:
168:WP refs
156:scholar
96:protect
91:history
1397:Yoenit
1367:prewar
1315:Yoenit
1293:WP:AGF
1276:Yoenit
1223:Added
1192:Yoenit
1157:Yoenit
1123:Yoenit
1041:Yoenit
1037:WP:ORG
1001:Yoenit
969:Yoenit
957:Delete
938:Yoenit
909:Yoenit
897:verify
863:Yoenit
820:Yoenit
662:(talk)
500:Delete
489:(talk)
467:, and
372:it own
364:Delete
354:(talk)
325:(talk)
140:Google
100:delete
878:Keep.
835:Keep.
781:(not
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469:WP:RS
246:Note:
183:JSTOR
144:books
117:views
109:watch
105:links
16:<
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799:here
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587:!!!
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476:and
465:WP:V
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438:talk
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405:talk
390:Note
380:talk
336:Note
176:FENS
150:news
113:logs
87:talk
83:edit
46:keep
983:iff
805:. —
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300:csp
296:or
288:csm
256:spa
230:not
190:TWL
125:•
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