916:- Well the version I read is a keep. I don't know what the version 10# Hammer saw when he nominated this article, but this one has only three alter-egos of Calvin & a discussion of other imaginary personae he adopted over the life of the comic. However, three items do not truly make for a list, so I am ambivalent about this one. --
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It is an argument for inherited notability, but one that doesn't have consensous thus I didn't make that argument. I believe the massive number of weak sources are enough to build an article out of and meet WP:N in the process. I also suspect there is a published article somewhere the covers this
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of the material without using the judgment of an expert, e.g. "Spaceman Spiff is based on...", "Watterman reintroduced to
Spaceman Spiff because...", "Spacemen Spiff represents to Calvin..." All such instances of that in this list are clearly based on the opinions of verifiable sources. My concern
345:
shows that there exists plenty of reliable secondary sourcing for these specific aspects of an unquestionably notable (Again, it's FA) work of fiction. Granted, there are redundancies and primary sources embedded in the Google specialty search results, but there's plenty here with which to improve
454:, so notability really isn't an issue. It's a subset of a notable article, and as such inherits its notability. What we DO have is a plethora of independent, reliable sources speaking to verifiability and cultural impact of these differing imaginings of Calvin.
80:
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original research, & in any case a reader can always verify the truth of the statements by reading the relevant parts of the work. Concern for original research should begin when someone starts to talk about matters which require
175:
Dismissing the arguments put forth in the original AfD discussion as "crap" is bad form. I have no problems with the original AfD's conclusion. Improvements to the article via editing would be more welcome than simply erasing it.
586:
The sources linked to above by
Jclemens are actually very good RSs (Washington Post, solid books, etc.) but I didn't feel any of them went into significant detail here. But there are certainly many many third party sources.
794:
The references seem valid enough, it mentioned in many sources. Plus it is a valid article, a key aspect of a work of notable fiction, which has enough information on its own to validate its existence as a separate article.
965:
You'd really rather the entire thing be deleted, rather than the parts that are sourced (as you acknowledge above) merged somewhere? Also, isn't the implication that everything must be either sourced or original research a
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per
Jclemens. The sources are fairly weak individually, but there are a lot of them. I think there's enough to show notability. Which is odd, because I came here thinking this would be an obvious delete given the title.
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spinout because merging would create two problems 1) C&H is FA, and this material, while certainly meriting inclusion, isn't up to those standards, and 2) C&H is already bordering on too long of an article.
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I found a number of brief mentions (a sentence or two) on a number of the characters in there. Certainly the article was about something else, that's why they are brief mentions, but there are sources here.
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Comment: I still believe there are sufficient sources around to justify a separate article for this as a separate article, but failing that, I like this merge target better than
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Point taken. Appolagies offered. My feeling is that it seems like an IDONTLIKEIT nomination alledging ILIKEIT consensus at the previous AFD, where consensus seemed clear to me.
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There's nothing but primary sources to be found for this. I have all the C&H books, but I've found no secondary sources that discuss
Spaceman Spiff et al. in any detail.
475:. Sourced information on "cultural impact of these differing imaginings of Calvin" would be welcome in the parent article—not that this article has any to contribute. /
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Though mentioned in passing by many reliable sources, there is no substantive coverage with which to make an article. I can only guess that the content here is
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The way NOR is invoked by
Kraftlos often appears in Knowledge discussions, & it always annoys me. Providing a summary of a plot or a character is
601:
None of these Google hits (that you call "sources") are about the subject; mostly they are about
Watterson, or announcements for new anthologies. The
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in a peer-reviewed journal. It's just the kind of thing that folks would use as a starting point for a conversation about, say, imaginary behavior.
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677:(ec)No words in your mouth--hence the "?" at the end of the sentence. I just wanted you to clarify your position, which you have done splendidly:
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Calvin has ever had. Indiscriminate as well. No attempts to improve since last AFD, which was kept without any real solid rationale besides
685:--the section you reference is the parent section of this article, the part from which J. Delanoy originally copied it per the first AfD.
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So if you think that this is a non-notable spinout, aren't you really advocating merger, rather than deletion? AfD is not for cleanup.
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432:) 01:54, 29 April 2009 (UTC). ---Updated to keep due to current state of article, which is outstanding and reasonably well sourced!
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with this article, to repeat myself, is not with the content, but whether this list is the best way to present the content. --
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I've gone through and added a lot of references to the primary sources and removed the statements which seemed ORish or had
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who admittedly only made three apparances, has coverage. While there's some overlap, the quality of the references (e.g.,
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being hyped here is entirely about
Watterson, making only passing mention of Calvin's alter egos in one sentence. This is
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tags. If anyone is unsatisfied by the current state of the article, please feel free to add more tags to the article.
557:. I came here thinking this would be an obvious delete given the title, but oddly it is entirely fancruft comprising
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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and joke recaps. Sole third-party sources are a joke made by Berke
Breathed and an "in pop culture" mention on
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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that's unfair. This is only the second time. If it gets nominated a third time, then you'll have a case.
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is not an argument for inherited notability. An article on Calvin's shoes would similarly fail
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Articles for deletion/Calvin's alter egos (Calvin and Hobbes) (2nd nomination)
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368:, that doesn't mean Knowledge should have a freestanding article on such. /
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I am obviously arguing for deletion.
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In-universe, original research, unsourced, insanely long list of
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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FYI, that's an apples to oranges comparison: you did a Google
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Articles for deletion/Calvin's alter egos (Calvin and Hobbes)
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keep nominating something you do not like until it is gone.
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list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions
609:. None of these hits make a case for this article, per
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list of
Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
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search which corresponds to the ones I linked above
826:- Enough. You (the nom in ALL this Articles AFD's)
773:Totally concur. Amended my !vote to keep/merge. --
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1069:). No further edits should be made to this page.
450:article. That is, it could all be included in
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8:
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660:detail would not improve that article. /
656:. Packing it with unsourced fancruft and
515:: This debate has been included in the
214:: This debate has been included in the
729:if sufficient sources can be found, or
91:Calvin's alter egos (Calvin and Hobbes)
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66:Calvin's alter egos (Calvin and Hobbes)
937:since most of it's not referenced. --
741:be merged with the main article). --
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897:. Nom mentions all relevant points.
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259:is the best thing to do, I guess.
48:. Merge not out of the question. –
24:
681:. You might also want to review
364:. If I can find Google hits for
360:These Google hits are all about
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
1:
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735:Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)
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650:already has a section for
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313:have plenty on Spiff, too.
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1062:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
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824:Strongest Possible Keep
603:Washington Post article
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336:) shouldn't be ignored.
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71:AfDs for this article:
366:Calvin's tousled hair
446:Note that this is a
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178:Pastor Theo
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341:In short,
153:WP:ILIKEIT
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343:WP:BEFORE
157:WP:USEFUL
1027:Jclemens
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952:Contrib
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658:WP:PLOT
524:Emperor
473:WP:NOTE
108:protect
103:history
931:Delete
895:Delete
828:CANNOT
611:WP:GNG
555:Delete
261:Drmies
136:delete
112:delete
814:Focus
731:Merge
704:Hobit
683:WP:SS
589:Hobit
559:WP:OR
493:Hobit
434:Hobit
426:Hobit
328:Even
278:WP:SS
276:as a
257:Merge
236:Merge
139:) – (
129:views
121:watch
117:links
16:<
1048:talk
1044:Ikip
1031:talk
1020:fact
1000:talk
976:talk
948:Talk
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861:talk
792:Keep
779:talk
765:talk
747:talk
727:Keep
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638:talk
613:. /
593:talk
546:talk
538:Keep
528:talk
513:Note
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430:talk
421:Keep
419:weak
403:talk
391:news
352:talk
309:and
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274:Keep
265:talk
244:talk
212:Note
182:talk
173:Keep
125:logs
99:talk
95:edit
46:keep
986:not
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739:not
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