Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Chuck Forsberg - Knowledge (XXG)

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minister? Is he the diet guru? And so on. Sources are silent about Forsberg the man and not Forsberg-who-invented-ZMODEM-that-was-popular-till-dial-up-BBSes-died. Does writing a widely used piece of software make the creator notable? And collecting virtual clippings from the subject's own Web site covering a one-shot press conference seems sketchy even by Knowledge (XXG) standards. I don't think someone is notable if you can't even find out what year he was born without flying down to his (unknown?) home city. --
388:- I will first admit a computing age bias and declare that I hail from the era of BBSes, and from personal knowledge know of the YMODEM and ZMODEM protocols. A google book serch for Chuck Forsberg shows that he is heavily identified with the transmission protocols that he created, and the material about these protocols indicate that they were a significant bit of work with respect to BBS file transmissions. See 433:
So creation of one, (once) widespread piece of software is alone, enough to assert notability? I don't think I'm trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to figure out why Forsberg gets an article and the creator of the Clapp oscillator doesn't. Difference being, there's still Clapp oscillators
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which is currently a redirect to the Clapp oscillator article. The redirect's history shows that it was recently created. There's no indication that it went through any deletion. I have no idea if he deserves an article as I've done no research about him, but as I said, that he doesn't have an
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When we have issues of verifiability with the assertion of notability in the article, then we are in a situation where notability cannot be reliably established. In this case, there is no dispute that the subject of this article is the creator of YMODEM and ZMODEM (see soruces below). So the
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A protocol isn't the same thing as software. It's more like inventing a language. This was back when downloading 1 MB took 20 minutes. ZMODEM was much faster: a revolutionary improvement on its predecessor. This made Forsberg so famous he was given an award. (Incidentally, I agree re YMODEM.)
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That helps, but it's a pity we haven't got any conventional biographical information. Is there anything that gives away, oh, say, what year he was born? Just one of the things that a real biography would be expected to have. Yes, we know he invented ZMODEM. But what else? Is he the Baptist
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Unsourced biography of a (living?) person. No reliable independent sources with any depth (can't even get DOB), no independent coverage. No known awards. Contribution was fairly obscure and his fame has not endured past the dial-up BBS era.
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assertion of notability is verifiable. So what remains is your query of not having a birth date available means that they are not likely notable. I will point out that we have in fact lots of people in
365:. So the only thing I can surmise is that you are really challenging the whether being the creator of YMODEM, and ZMODEM is a sufficient claim for ntoability. I address that in my !vote below. -- 232: 115: 413:
point 2, the transmission protocols were signficant new techniques, or in the alternative, per point 3, this work has been heavily covered in reliable sources with reviews. -
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In this case, for me, the answer is yes, although it isn't one, but two transmission protocols that he worked on. As for the inventor of the
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YMODEM and ZMODEM were quite important to early 1990s computing, and well known. Forsberg is widely cited for creating them. He won a
88: 83: 17: 92: 75: 270:(standard university text of the period) certainly covers the protocols and I'd expect it to at least mention their creator. 169: 136: 477:
He wouldn't warrant an article for YModem (a fairly simple evolution from XModem), but he does for ZModem alone. So does
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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in every darn thing, but there's a whole generation growing up that wouldn't know ZMODEM from Morse code. --
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press event he staged to defend himself against claims made about ZMODEM's performance compared to
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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for PGP. Sometimes one invention is enough, even if it's software rather than hardware.
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Forsberg participated in pirate radio station as a cadet at WMAS. The book cites a
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are just some of the many hits that one gets int he book search. Per
305:. Notability is easily established. According to Forsberg's website, 263: 259: 306: 523:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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for Excellence in Telecommunications in 1992 (listed at
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list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions
175: 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 533:). No further edits should be made to this page. 461:article has no bearing on this discussion. -- 363:Category:Date of birth missing (living people) 207:list of Computing-related deletion discussions 325:Forsberg's page from Forsberg's personal site 8: 227: 201: 231:: This debate has been included in the 205:: This debate has been included in the 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 24: 1: 512:00:24, 11 December 2010 (UTC) 495:18:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 471:18:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 444:17:59, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 423:17:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 375:17:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 58:01:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC) 356:16:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 337:01:50, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 301:). So he meets #1 and #2 at 280:01:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 248:23:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC) 222:23:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC) 196:21:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC) 456:). I am assuming you mean 550: 481:for the PK archivers and 526:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 262:and, more importantly, 458:James Kilton Clapp 258:His contribution ( 44:The result was 320:Rebels on the Air 297:and confirmed in 268:Computer Networks 250: 236: 224: 210: 541: 528: 450:Clapp oscillator 295:the award's site 237: 211: 180: 179: 165: 113: 95: 34: 549: 548: 544: 543: 542: 540: 539: 538: 537: 531:deletion review 524: 317:. According to 311:publicity stunt 122: 86: 70: 67: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 547: 545: 536: 535: 520: 519: 518: 517: 516: 515: 514: 498: 497: 483:Phil Zimmerman 474: 473: 426: 425: 382: 381: 380: 379: 378: 377: 340: 339: 299:another source 283: 282: 252: 251: 225: 183: 182: 119: 72:Chuck Forsberg 66: 64:Chuck Forsberg 61: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 546: 534: 532: 527: 521: 513: 509: 505: 500: 499: 496: 492: 488: 484: 480: 476: 475: 472: 468: 464: 459: 455: 454:WP:OTHERSTUFF 451: 447: 446: 445: 441: 437: 432: 431: 430: 429: 428: 427: 424: 420: 416: 412: 408: 405: 402: 399: 396: 393: 390: 387: 384: 383: 376: 372: 368: 364: 359: 358: 357: 353: 349: 344: 343: 342: 341: 338: 334: 330: 326: 322: 321: 316: 312: 308: 307:three sources 304: 300: 296: 292: 288: 285: 284: 281: 277: 273: 269: 265: 261: 257: 254: 253: 249: 245: 241: 234: 230: 226: 223: 219: 215: 208: 204: 200: 199: 198: 197: 193: 189: 178: 174: 171: 168: 164: 160: 156: 153: 150: 147: 144: 141: 138: 135: 132: 128: 125: 124:Find sources: 120: 117: 111: 107: 103: 99: 94: 90: 85: 81: 77: 73: 69: 68: 65: 62: 60: 59: 55: 51: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 525: 522: 487:Andy Dingley 385: 319: 310: 291:Dvorak Award 286: 272:Andy Dingley 267: 255: 228: 202: 184: 172: 166: 158: 151: 145: 139: 133: 123: 45: 43: 31: 28: 436:Wtshymanski 411:WP:CREATIVE 348:Wtshymanski 188:Wtshymanski 149:free images 50:Ron Ritzman 309:covered a 479:Phil Katz 240:• Gene93k 214:• Gene93k 116:View log 303:WP:AUTH 155:WP refs 143:scholar 89:protect 84:history 406:, and 315:Kermit 264:ZModem 260:YModem 127:Google 93:delete 287:Keep. 170:JSTOR 131:books 110:views 102:watch 98:links 16:< 508:talk 491:talk 467:talk 463:Whpq 440:talk 419:talk 415:Whpq 386:Keep 371:talk 367:Whpq 352:talk 333:talk 276:talk 256:Keep 244:talk 229:Note 218:talk 203:Note 192:talk 163:FENS 137:news 106:logs 80:talk 76:edit 54:talk 46:keep 504:Pnm 329:Pnm 238:-- 212:-- 177:TWL 114:– ( 510:) 502:-- 493:) 469:) 442:) 421:) 403:, 400:, 397:, 394:, 391:, 373:) 354:) 335:) 278:) 246:) 235:. 220:) 209:. 194:) 186:-- 157:) 108:| 104:| 100:| 96:| 91:| 87:| 82:| 78:| 56:) 48:. 506:( 489:( 465:( 438:( 417:( 369:( 350:( 331:( 274:( 242:( 216:( 190:( 181:) 173:· 167:· 159:· 152:· 146:· 140:· 134:· 129:( 121:( 118:) 112:) 74:( 52:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
deletion review
Ron Ritzman
talk
01:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Chuck Forsberg
Chuck Forsberg
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR
TWL
Wtshymanski
talk
21:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
list of Computing-related deletion discussions

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