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things. For example, I am quite convinced that
Cheongye Kwan is a no-nonsense, no bullshido, real MA school. I do have my doubts, however, if this school satisfies our criteria for inclusion into encyclopedia. I gave you links to verifiability, notability, and independent sources rules - so far you have decided not to address these particular points. Believe me, if the sources are available, I will be glad to see this school covered in Knowledge. For now I am just convinced (possibly wrongly) that this school is too small, and too non-notable to be described, and that Knowledge article may serve its self-promotion.
502:
November, article moved from user pages on 28 November, article nominated for deletion on 29 November), it does not appear that the primary author has had time to address the notability concerns—but it should be noted that notability was already very clearly raised as an issue two years ago. In good faith, the best advice I could give to the primary author is to do a bit of reading (at the links I provided in my feedback) and gain a better understanding of notability before continuing to work on the article.
937:"Barry to coach GB taekwondo team" you linked (thanks!) actually looks pretty much like a paid ad: it links to the schools website, advices to contact the secretary, and gives praise to the one-year old club (then). It also speaks of Barry Peake in a way, which may imply he was in the Olympics (weasel/clever wording), while it seems he wasn't.
429:
whos role seems to be one of assistance, which is looking more like of a role a disproval. As mentioned, several operators looked, worked and helped me on this and then THEY made it live. If you (or another) disagrees, then surely a more prudent action is moving it so as to facilitate fixing it rather than suggesting delete?
1009:
The
Cheongye Kwan Daehando is a remarkable Korean Martial Arts association helping countless people to be better and stronger individuals. It has Government backing via local council support (link on article) and has the full support of a National Taekwondo Governing Body (The BTA) under the Kukkiwon
428:
On occassions when one of you dissagrees with another (since this page was made live by one of you) why didnt you simply request that I move this page back to the fixing it/work on it area rather than just the over-use of authoruty and blanket delete. It seems a harsh and unhelpful action from people
457:
The only problem is that I don't see how it can be fixed. I think it does not meet the notability criteria (reason for deletion 1). Also, it lacks verifiable, reliable sources (reason 2). If you know how 1&2 can be fixed: go ahead, and I encourage anyone else to do the same. Please, keep in mind
761:
Of course, and I respect that. Yet, if THE ONLY source the article relies on is the one all who may be skeptical about the content are unable to get, it just does not appease my concerns. Since the main author claims s/he has the article, I thought it would not be preposterous to ask for a copy for
1165:
Dear Ckduk, I really have NOTHING personal against
Cheongye Kwan. I have huge respect to people dedicating their life to perfecting martial arts. The only thing is that in MA environment there are really many, many non-notable schools, fractions, or styles. Notability and respect are two different
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on the article on 26 November 2011 and received a response regarding notability (from me); had I been aware at the time that the article had previously been deleted, I would have provided more extensive feedback. Given the timeframes involved (advice requested on 26 November, advice provided on 27
686:
I have contacted the newspaper myself who told me that articles from that far back are not kept online digitally, although I do have the article, which is why I was able to add the details to this wiki page. Their is also an article on this page from another newspaper The
Preston Citizen, so that
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I believe that Pundit has taken a personal effort to ensure that this page not be used (which I am sure he will dispute in his next comment), and the association, staff and instructors of the
Cheongye Kwan deserve far more respect and courtesy for what they have achieved and become than is being
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from 3 November 2009. The only significant changes since then appear to be the addition of a list of 'celebrity friends' and a small section on the founder, neither of which demonstrate the subject's notability. A copy of the article has been moved to the primary author's user pages by another
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This artacle has been worked on alongside several wiki operators who have all contributed and made the page accetable for inclussion on wikipedia. Granted more work is needed and people will update and edit over time, but it has been granted as ok for now which is why it was uploaded by chzz.
492:: 1 (short history), and 2 (single/few schools that teach the art). The subject's status on some of these points might change if reliable sources come to light contesting the apparent status as noted at this time. Apart from those points, the article is substantially a reproduction of the
398:. There is plenty of time to prove me wrong, I will be more than happy to see this article straighten up, really! It is just that for now it seems as if it didn't qualify and I, personally, don't see where I could assist to make it better. If you believe that this article satisfies the
357:
Yes, but these things can be added by working with the page creators and assisting them to make things better over time once a solid base page has been set up, rather than just issuing blanket delete submissions without first helping the writers, thats just unhelpful!
488:: 1 (subject of an independent article), 2 (long, externally verifiable history), 3 (multiple notable practitioners), 4 (large number of students), or 5 (competitive successes in large, inter-style tournaments). The subject does appear to meet both of the following
310:
As for the planted links comment... I was asked to seek out and attach links back to my page, as well as addind categories. Complience has been maintained and advice taken on board, and I believe this article can stand as is, ready for future edits and add ons.
265:. Quick Google search does not bring any promising independent publications on this organization/style, it only proves that it exists. If anybody could help to straighten this up, that's great. Otherwise, the article may not meet our criteria.
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in Korea. Whilst some of you may find it difficult to use the word
Notable because of the wiki guidlines, this association is very well know and respected around the world by many famous Martial Arts actors and celebrities (photos here
1045:
All this is important and if it indeed is so, I'm sure that you will easily find reliable sources to prove it. Pictures themselves, unfortunately, are not enough - after all non-notable people also take pictures with celebrities, etc.
484:. No assertion of notability has been made in the article, and on a brief search for sources I have been unable to find any reliable sources that demonstrate notability. The subject does not appear to meet any of the following
63:. Whilst that is outside AfD procedures, it was at the apparent behest of the author; there's no point in continuing this discussion, as there is no longer a live page. I note here that, apart from the article creator (
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Yes of course. But I dont see that this alone will cancel the delete request making it a pointless exercise. If this is all that is needed to save the page, then yes by all means.
856:), does not comment on the content of these articles, there is nothing to go on except their titles, which suggest they are primarily about Barry. Let's look at each article/title:
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that even if the page gets deleted you will be able to request moving its deleted content to your sandbox. For your convenience I also made a current copy of the article
632:
I Google for "Lancashire
Evening Post" and "Cheongye Kwan" and I don't see the referenced article anywhere. I searched the newspaper's website also, but found nothing.
212:
410:, may unknowingly fall into one. In any case, please make this article better as soon as possible, it will definitely help to persuade the others (and me, too).
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Nothing stops you from adding verifiable and notable sources, while the discussion goes here. I'm afraid that the main problem is that there are none, though.
1117:
I cannot guarantee that your uploading the articles for viewing will prevent deletion. However, if the articles contain in-depth coverage of
Cheongye Kwan
546:
issue raised here, as well as
Janggeom's point above? I don't want to be pushy, I am really curious in finding out how you see these particular problems.
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Actually the section "Other sources" lists five other articles in newspapers and magazines that could very well be independent reliable sources. --
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253:, and even though 2 years have passed, nothing much has changed since then. While this organization probably does exist indeed, the article lacks
714:
yes, but since nobody can access these easily, they fail the verifiability criterion. Btw, out of curiosity, perhaps you can put it somewhere?
521:. This page meets most of the basic criteria for a Martial Arts page including references, newspaper articles, websites, and checkable points.
1138:
shown here. With this said, we believe that no amount of effort will save the article, and therefore nolonger wish to persue inclussion.
824:
most of those articles, it's plausible that, despite their titles, their actual content could go on to discuss
Cheongye Kwan at length. --
890:— primarily about Barry because the title suggests that the subject of the article is the same as that of the article immediately above.
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I found this article after removing a couple of links planted in articles on martial arts. The previous AfD decision was to
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like a sponsored article, encouraging to call or check the website to sign up. Other "references" include yellowbook-like
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appear to be independent (written with a neutral point of view), I will change my delete opinion to support retention.
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would establish notability not for Cheongye Kwan but for Barry since they are about him. Cheongye Kwan fails the
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I found nothing that shows notability or reliable sources. I agree with the comments by Pundit and Janggeom.
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contain coverage of Cheongye Kwan—"Barry hunting for Taekwondo talent" and "At the height of power".
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contributor, as requested, so work is able to continue on the article if desired. The primary author
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rather than "Barry hunting for Taekwondo talent". I haven't found the latter anywhere on the web.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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406:- I'm not saying you are in it, I'm just observing that beginners, especially if they have
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Something not being in Google does not make it unacceptable as a source - see comment by
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1076:) so we can view the content or comment on the content of each article?
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Well, I honestly don't believe this article satisfies our criteria for
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That doesn't necessarily follow - since we only know the titles of
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to you? Also, could you possibly comment on the fundamental
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I've just checked - the only "independent" reference
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Indeed it is plausible, but so long as the creator,
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Knowledge martial arts criteria supporting inclusion
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Articles for deletion/Cheongye Kwan (3rd nomination)
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Articles for deletion/Cheongye Kwan (2nd nomination)
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Knowledge martial arts criteria supporting deletion
286:list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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863:"Barry hunting for Taekwondo talent" from
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687:makes 2 independant newspapers on their!
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881:— article does not mention Cheongye Kwan.
261:. Also, the organization/style may fail
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873:"Barry to coach GB Taekwondo Team"
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893:"BTA National Poomse Coach" from
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884:"GB role for Barry" from
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32:Please do not modify it.
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788:Delete
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717:Pundit
616:Delete
579:Pundit
566:Delete
549:Pundit
482:Delete
465:Pundit
413:Pundit
342:Pundit
268:Pundit
259:verify
191:Google
157:delete
1175:utter
1147:Ckduk
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1055:utter
1027:Ckduk
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946:utter
915:could
875:from
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747:. --
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651:Focus
585:utter
570:looks
555:utter
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367:Ckduk
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320:Ckduk
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234:JSTOR
195:books
174:views
166:watch
162:links
86:Chzz
65:Ckduk
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1127:talk
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538:and
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460:here
442:talk
371:talk
324:talk
296:talk
227:FENS
201:news
170:logs
144:talk
140:edit
69:talk
1192:--
1119:and
800:GNG
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178:– (
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172:|
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92:►
59:R2
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