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:Articles for deletion/Clackson scroll formula - Knowledge

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563:...and when a derivation is so simple that any high-school student can check it in a minute, does that come under the OR rule? I think there's been some discussion of this before. If I multiply 777 by 286 and report that I got 222,222, and it happens by some freak chance that no one has ever multiplied that exact pair of numbers before, am I violating the OR rule? If so, lots of articles are in trouble. 1048:
not particularly notable article or publication is definitely not enough. But that's all we have with the references in the article so far. Moreover none of the involved here has actually seen any of the discussed sources first hand, so strictly speaking we couldn't even exclude a smart fake for sure.--
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formula", i. e. whether it can be considered an at least somewhat established term or not. So far we are still lacking sufficient references for that. The 2 references in the article are not good enough (as pointed out in the original AfD) and the 2 books found via google books might be good enough,
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The problem here is not the mathematical correctness but the notability of the term "clarkson sacroll formula". A redirect makes only sense if the term is actually mentioned in the target article and if there's sufficient evidence that the term is established/used/somewhat known. The current sources
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Imho the former case alone might not be good enough and currently we don't really have reliable evidence for that. I don't think a widespread use is necessarily required, but i'd say some use within a community is required and somebody not particularly notable calling it (once) by that name in some
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If there's something reasonably called a "scroll formula" and it's clearly due to someone named Clackson, is that enough reason why an article about it should be called "Clackson's scroll formula" or "Clackson scroll formula" (presumably preceded by the definite article when used in a sentence), or
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But how do we know that this equation is properly known as the "clackson scroll formula"? Maybe its properly called something else? My point is that we have nothing more than original research right now, that we can confirm is mathematically correct. How do we even know that it's notable or even
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can be found in that article (until this estimate was added). I'd have guessed an exact formula would appear (whether "closed-form" or not I won't guess right now). That a simple estimate originated out of a need arising in a field other than pure geometry is interesting.
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Per the talk page, one source is a primary source and the other is non-reputable, therefore notability is not asserted. Moreover, a detailed interest search doesn't show any such equation or principal, therefore I think this is a made-up concept.
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Although this formula is not the exact volume, it's closer to the exact value than what seems to be suggested by the argument give by Ryan Reich on the article's talk page. If one had concentric circles, rather than a spiral, and
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MathWorld has the exact formula and it's easy to find in other sources. I'm a bit leery of using the GBooks sources as references since they're 'no preview'. For all I know they're just reprinting the material from
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We don't and the discussion regarding mathematical correctness/prorperties is imho missing the point. There was never an issue regarding the math but only regarding the notability of the name "
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if somebody gets a chance to take a closer look to see what's actually written in them, but simply having them listed as a result in a google book search is not good enough either.--
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I don't think that's a good idea, because, as far as I can tell, the equation is made up. So unless you can find a real confirmable reference, I think you are propagating a fallacy.
177: 138: 1104:- I can find no evidence of the Clackson Scroll formula being used for estimating requirements for stock in blacksmithing. Books LLC simply copies wikipedia (see this 361:
can tell, it's just "made up" and a "fallacy", then I suggest you're not very good at math. All you need to do is check the derivation that's given in the article.
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is it necessary that particular name, "the Clackson scroll formula" be in widespread standard use within the community of those who know the formula?
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Metalworking: Metal, Forge, Engraving, Cladding, Sintering, Screw, Metalworking, Parts Cleaning, Powder Metallurgy, Rivet, Spray Forming
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Michael Hardy, note that both books are written by "Books, LLC", which commonly copies the text from Knowledge in their books. See:
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Spirals: Logarithmic Spiral, Ulam Spiral, Archimedean Spiral, Spiral, Euler Spiral, Spiral, Track Transition Curve, Rhumb Line
798:. If we therefore approximate the length by the amount half-way between the lengths of two circles, with radii differing by 479: 447: 159: 1117: 1094: 1057: 1042: 1024: 1004: 969: 954: 933: 609: 587: 572: 558: 535: 498: 413: 385: 370: 352: 338: 317: 296: 280: 263: 246: 224: 80: 61: 155: 76: 57: 102: 1132: 36: 1131:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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These two things are cited. What are they? What is SCAT and what is MSC? Can they be found in some library?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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But it's not concentric circles. Each time the spiral winds around once the radius increases by
601: 597: 564: 550: 490: 405: 400: 362: 326: 305: 304:: Apparently a neologism, but the formula might be mentioned as an estimate for the length of an 276: 48: 1108:) and as such is not a reliable source. The correctness of any formula is rather irrelevant. -- 476: 444: 399:
if reputable secondary sources can be found. I'm surprised that nothing on the length of the
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
783:{\displaystyle 2\pi s+4\pi s+6\pi s+\cdots +2n\pi s=2\pi s{n(n+1) \over 2}=\pi s(n^{2}+n).\,} 1053: 1020: 981: 583: 381: 313: 259: 240: 289: 943:
on the basis of mIchael Hardy;s discussion, which I expect he will add to the article.
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article that one of the applications of that integral is to the arc length of the
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via Google Books I find this one containing the phrase "Clackson scroll formula":
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per the above, unless better sources are provided within the next few days.--
1109: 913:{\displaystyle \pi s+3\pi s+5\pi s+7\pi s+\cdots +(2n-1)\pi s=\pi sn^{2},\,} 52:. Content was merged so history must be preserved for attribution purposes. 638:
is the distance between any two adjacent ones, then the total area would be
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to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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S.G. Clackson, "The Trinity Church Screen", SCAT Report 1981
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Indeed, a few minutes after commenting above I added to the
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the unreferenced derivation of the equation equates to
128: 124: 120: 190: 1080:^ "MSC Craft-Based Training – Forging and Hand Skills 810: 650: 329:- I have already merged the text into that article. 989:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 912: 782: 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 1135:). No further edits should be made to this page. 233:- I can find nothing to establish notability. 924:which is just what Clackson's formula gives. 204: 8: 899: 809: 760: 717: 649: 908: 778: 7: 24: 600:. It's pretty easy to derive. 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1118:15:35, 22 September 2010 (UTC) 1095:20:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC) 1058:12:18, 17 September 2010 (UTC) 1043:20:34, 16 September 2010 (UTC) 1025:00:41, 16 September 2010 (UTC) 1005:14:10, 15 September 2010 (UTC) 970:13:48, 15 September 2010 (UTC) 955:02:22, 15 September 2010 (UTC) 934:20:02, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 877: 862: 772: 753: 735: 723: 610:17:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC) 588:21:25, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 573:20:05, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 559:20:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 536:18:25, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 499:18:03, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 473:Publisher: General Books, 2010 441:Publisher: General Books, 2010 414:17:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 386:20:31, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 376:are not sufficuent evidence.-- 371:17:39, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 353:12:39, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 339:08:02, 10 September 2010 (UTC) 81:00:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC) 62:07:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC) 1: 318:22:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC) 297:17:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC) 288:No indication of notability. 281:07:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC) 264:21:51, 8 September 2010 (UTC) 247:18:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC) 225:18:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC) 522:, which doesn't hold up for 960:empirically used anywhere? 802:, then for the area we get 1152: 1128:Please do not modify it. 594:integral of secant cubed 32:Please do not modify it. 95:Clackson scroll formula 87:Clackson scroll formula 914: 784: 549:write any derivation? 545:derivation? When did 915: 785: 808: 648: 910: 909: 780: 779: 598:Archimedean spiral 438:Author: Books, LLC 401:Archimedean spiral 327:Archimedean spiral 306:Archimedean spiral 67:The result was 49:Archimedean spiral 1007: 742: 520:original research 470:Editor Books, LLC 467:Author Books, LLC 1143: 1130: 1000: 988: 986: 919: 917: 916: 911: 904: 903: 789: 787: 786: 781: 765: 764: 743: 738: 718: 485:Length 112 pages 453:Length 504 pages 294: 243: 238: 209: 208: 194: 146: 136: 118: 34: 1151: 1150: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1133:deletion review 1126: 998: 979: 895: 806: 805: 756: 719: 646: 645: 482:, 9781155647166 458:And also this: 450:, 9781156531433 290: 241: 236: 151: 142: 109: 93: 90: 45:The result was 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1149: 1147: 1138: 1137: 1121: 1120: 1098: 1097: 1083: 1082: 1081: 1078: 1072: 1071: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1027: 987: 976: 975: 974: 973: 972: 937: 936: 922: 921: 920: 907: 902: 898: 894: 891: 888: 885: 882: 879: 876: 873: 870: 867: 864: 861: 858: 855: 852: 849: 846: 843: 840: 837: 834: 831: 828: 825: 822: 819: 816: 813: 792: 791: 790: 777: 774: 771: 768: 763: 759: 755: 752: 749: 746: 741: 737: 734: 731: 728: 725: 722: 716: 713: 710: 707: 704: 701: 698: 695: 692: 689: 686: 683: 680: 677: 674: 671: 668: 665: 662: 659: 656: 653: 640: 639: 627: 626: 625: 624: 623: 622: 621: 620: 619: 618: 617: 616: 615: 614: 613: 612: 504: 503: 502: 501: 488: 487: 486: 483: 474: 471: 468: 465: 456: 455: 454: 451: 442: 439: 436: 425: 424: 423: 422: 394: 393: 392: 391: 390: 389: 388: 320: 299: 283: 266: 249: 212: 211: 148: 144:AfD statistics 89: 84: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1148: 1136: 1134: 1129: 1123: 1122: 1119: 1115: 1111: 1107: 1103: 1100: 1099: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1087:Michael Hardy 1084: 1079: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1070: 1067: 1066: 1059: 1055: 1051: 1046: 1045: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1035:Michael Hardy 1031: 1028: 1026: 1022: 1018: 1013: 1009: 1008: 1006: 1003: 1001: 994: 993: 985: 983: 978: 977: 971: 967: 963: 958: 957: 956: 952: 948: 947: 942: 939: 938: 935: 931: 927: 926:Michael Hardy 923: 905: 900: 896: 892: 889: 886: 883: 880: 874: 871: 868: 865: 859: 856: 853: 850: 847: 844: 841: 838: 835: 832: 829: 826: 823: 820: 817: 814: 811: 804: 803: 801: 797: 793: 775: 769: 766: 761: 757: 750: 747: 744: 739: 732: 729: 726: 720: 714: 711: 708: 705: 702: 699: 696: 693: 690: 687: 684: 681: 678: 675: 672: 669: 666: 663: 660: 657: 654: 651: 644: 643: 642: 641: 637: 632: 629: 628: 611: 607: 603: 602:Michael Hardy 599: 595: 591: 590: 589: 585: 581: 576: 575: 574: 570: 566: 565:Michael Hardy 562: 561: 560: 556: 552: 551:Michael Hardy 548: 544: 541: 540: 539: 538: 537: 533: 529: 525: 521: 517: 513: 510: 509: 508: 507: 506: 505: 500: 496: 492: 491:Michael Hardy 489: 484: 481: 478: 475: 472: 469: 466: 464: 460: 459: 457: 452: 449: 446: 443: 440: 437: 435: 431: 430: 429: 428: 427: 426: 420: 417: 416: 415: 411: 407: 406:Michael Hardy 402: 398: 395: 387: 383: 379: 374: 373: 372: 368: 364: 363:Michael Hardy 360: 357:If as far as 356: 355: 354: 350: 346: 342: 341: 340: 336: 332: 328: 324: 321: 319: 315: 311: 307: 303: 300: 298: 295: 293: 287: 284: 282: 278: 274: 270: 267: 265: 261: 257: 253: 250: 248: 245: 244: 239: 232: 229: 228: 227: 226: 222: 218: 207: 203: 200: 197: 193: 189: 185: 182: 179: 176: 173: 170: 167: 164: 161: 157: 154: 153:Find sources: 149: 145: 140: 134: 130: 126: 122: 117: 113: 108: 104: 100: 96: 92: 91: 88: 85: 83: 82: 78: 74: 70: 65: 64: 63: 59: 55: 51: 50: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 1127: 1124: 1101: 1068: 1029: 1011: 995: 991: 980: 944: 940: 799: 795: 635: 630: 578:Knowledge.-- 546: 542: 515: 462: 433: 418: 396: 358: 322: 301: 291: 285: 271:non-notable 268: 251: 234: 230: 213: 201: 195: 187: 180: 174: 168: 162: 152: 68: 66: 47:redirect to 46: 44: 43: 31: 28: 178:free images 1106:discussion 526:purposes. 524:notability 480:1155647165 448:1156531438 292:Joaquin008 962:Wizard191 528:Wizard191 345:Wizard191 331:Gandalf61 217:Wizard191 73:T. Canens 54:T. Canens 1012:clarkson 982:Relisted 514:. Also, 323:Redirect 273:Dreamspy 139:View log 1069:Comment 1030:Comment 631:Comment 461:Title: 432:Title: 419:Comment 184:WP refs 172:scholar 112:protect 107:history 1102:Delete 1050:Kmhkmh 1017:Kmhkmh 580:RDBury 378:Kmhkmh 310:RDBury 302:Delete 286:Delete 269:Delete 256:Kmhkmh 252:Delete 242:fan ~~ 231:Delete 156:Google 116:delete 69:delete 951:talk 237:~~ GB 199:JSTOR 160:books 133:views 125:watch 121:links 16:< 1114:talk 1110:Whpq 1091:talk 1054:talk 1039:talk 1021:talk 999:Talk 966:talk 941:Keep 930:talk 606:talk 584:talk 569:talk 555:talk 532:talk 516:your 495:talk 477:ISBN 445:ISBN 410:talk 397:Keep 382:talk 367:talk 349:talk 335:talk 314:talk 277:talk 260:talk 221:talk 192:FENS 166:news 129:logs 103:talk 99:edit 77:talk 58:talk 946:DGG 359:you 325:to 308:.-- 206:TWL 141:• 137:– ( 1116:) 1093:) 1056:) 1041:) 1023:) 992:NW 968:) 953:) 932:) 890:π 881:π 872:− 857:⋯ 848:π 836:π 824:π 812:π 748:π 712:π 700:π 688:⋯ 679:π 667:π 655:π 608:) 586:) 571:) 557:) 543:My 534:) 497:) 412:) 384:) 369:) 351:) 337:) 316:) 279:) 262:) 223:) 186:) 131:| 127:| 123:| 119:| 114:| 110:| 105:| 101:| 79:) 71:. 60:) 1112:( 1089:( 1052:( 1037:( 1019:( 1002:) 996:( 964:( 949:( 928:( 906:, 901:2 897:n 893:s 887:= 884:s 878:) 875:1 869:n 866:2 863:( 860:+ 854:+ 851:s 845:7 842:+ 839:s 833:5 830:+ 827:s 821:3 818:+ 815:s 800:s 796:s 776:. 773:) 770:n 767:+ 762:2 758:n 754:( 751:s 745:= 740:2 736:) 733:1 730:+ 727:n 724:( 721:n 715:s 709:2 706:= 703:s 697:n 694:2 691:+ 685:+ 682:s 676:6 673:+ 670:s 664:4 661:+ 658:s 652:2 636:s 604:( 582:( 567:( 553:( 547:I 530:( 493:( 408:( 380:( 365:( 347:( 333:( 312:( 275:( 258:( 219:( 210:) 202:· 196:· 188:· 181:· 175:· 169:· 163:· 158:( 150:( 147:) 135:) 97:( 75:( 56:(

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
deletion review
Archimedean spiral
T. Canens
talk
07:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
T. Canens
talk
00:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Clackson scroll formula
Clackson scroll formula
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