Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Accusations of Arab Apartheid

2527:- as others have pointed out, it's merely a coatrack for a collection of quotes which someone has dug up from Google Books to support a novel argument for a general phenomenon of "Arab apartheid". That is an absurdly broad-brush term anyway - the Arab world covers 21 countries and territories inhabited by 360 million people; it's as absurdly general as "South American apartheid" or "Slavic apartheid". The whole premise of the article appears to be to highlight claims of discrimination in individual countries and extrapolate them to an entire region and ethnic group. That is not only original research, it strikes me as bordering on racism as well. Imagine an antithetical article about Israel, "Accusations of Jewish Apartheid" - that would be equally problematic (I'd vote for its deletion in a heartbeat) and I suspect that those voting to keep this article would not hesitate to call for its speedy deletion. 2929:, when he wrote "who are the scholars (here sociologists or political scientists are expected) who studied, as a whole, the allegations of apartheid carried against the different countries or regime around the world ?" This strikes me as an enormously salient issue. Moreover, in going through the references in the article, I was unable to find one whose topic was "Allegations of apartheid". I think this has to be a litmus test: if there isn't a single source (broadly defined to include chapters of larger works and the like) that has its primary subject a topic on which somebody wants to make a Knowledge article, there have to be alarm bells. It may well be so that the collection of these various allegations together is eminently reasonable, but if that is so why has nobody else, to all evidence, ever so-collected them? 2087:, the only vital issue is this: is there a significant body of credible, sustained secondary sources (at least some of which should be scholarly) that address the issue of "apartheid in Arab states"? From what I can gather, the answer is "clearly not." There are several accusations made against specific states, but the number of sources looking at "apartheid in Arab states" is much smaller, and most of these would seem to be journalistic articles, often polemical and written for short-term consumption. The debate simply hasn't reached a critical level of discourse to justify this article, nor is it suitable as a "list page" for the individual countries in question. 608:

admittedly needs significant expansion. As the sections about, for example, the practice of apartheid against the Coptic Christians of Egypt is improved and expanded, it could have a separate article , as gender apartheid does. What the sections have in common with one another and with apartheid era South Africa is the practice in a large number of Arab societies of essentializing individuals, of defining groups by ascribed status (Christian, Shia, Palestinian, women, marsh Arabs, non Arab) and denying all members of the group rights enjoyed by members of the dominant group in a society which may, in Bahrain as it was in South Africa, be a ruling minority.

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article was constructed the same way as this one, i.e. as a collection of quotations to support an original contention of a worldwide phenomenon of "apartheid" in various countries. You have cast the scope of this article more narrowly to cover just the Arab world but it suffers from the same problems identified in the 2008 AfD. When CJCurrie posted a link to that AfD I was struck by how very similar the comments were to those on this article. While this article might not be a direct descendent of the earlier one, it's clear that Knowledge has faced a very similar issue before, so the previous discussions are highly relevant.

2476:; a collection of unrelated quotes stitched together to support an original argument of the existence of "Arab apartheid". The author's approach seems to have been essentially to cherry-pick any book that contains the words "Arab" and "apartheid" in proximity to each other. There is no context and no assessment of whether the assertions made are in any way credible (only one point of view is represented - the accusatory one). It's very obvious that this article has been created as a POV counterpart - or retaliation - for the corresponding one about Israel. Comments like 1343:

minorities or majorities by the governing group does date back to about 1990, but as near as I can tell it has only become widely popular since about 2010. I only first heard it used quite recently, I think it was in a Nick Kristof column. The idea caught my eye because it fit with what I already knew about, for example, the abuse of Christians in Egypt, Iraq and Syria. To me, apartheid is a reasonable analogy. In the process of writing this article, I would say that it was a series of hard hitting articles using the phrase "Arab apartheid" by Arab journalist

1497:*If the article is a response to Israel and the apartheid analogy, the content and quality of the sources remain unchallenged. Knowledge is predicated on not simply neutrality but balance. It is a reasonable to create an article about allegations of Arab apartheid if reliable sources exist to support it. There is even more reason if another article exists (precedent) that includes identical claims. Whether or not the original author has an agenda is simply irrelevant. We should AGF naturally. IMO, I think the title of the article is suspect. 2614:

plenty of sources that use "apartheid" rhetorically to refer to such discrimination. However, it would plainly be absurd to quote-mine such sources to support an unpublished argument about the existence of a general pattern of "Slavic apartheid". Yes, discrimination exists in various counties and yes, some people have rhetorically called it "apartheid", but those two facts can't be used to present a novel argument that separate issues in different counties can all be described as a general system of "apartheid", as this article tries to do.

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Nor is there any indication of a general debate about "apartheid" in the Arab world. Instead, it cobbles together quotes from people using the term "apartheid" rhetorically to refer to discrimination in different countries, arising in different circumstances and involving many different groups in many different countries. It is completely one-sided - it never presents alternative points of view, which fundamentally ignores the NPOV principle. The whole premise of the article, as a quote-mined list of accusations, is incompatible with NPOV.

2076:, is perhaps less bad in this respect than was "Allegations of Apartheid," but not by terribly much. It's based on a synthesis of various sources, not on sources that address the specific issue of "apartheid" in Arab states. Some of the sources are fairly weak here as well -- I've checked one of the George Attiyey articles referenced in it and discovered that the article mentions the words "Arab apartheid" only in passing, as part of a much longer comment on corruption and factionalism in governments all throughout Africa (see 2065:"Allegations of Apartheid" was a different matter entirely; it was essentially just a list of references to accusations of apartheid against different countries. Many of these references were based on very weak sources, and some were based on passing references in journalistic documents to apartheid-like conditions. It was a terrible entry -- not appropriate as a list page, and not suitable in its own terms. In other words, it was the definition of a 2501:- thanks for the shout-out p-man! (truth is, comments like "that" one just show that things do exist, whether you like them or not. there are dozens of examples of those who say that israel apartheid is nonsense, and there are dozens of examples of those who say that arab apartheid is quite real. they are not "separate but equal", rather, they are intertwined, with both being validly (nice word!) sourced and referenced. 88: 2925:). In response, the keep side argues that a great many incidents of allegations of apartheid have been covered by reliable sources, and that there is nothing WP:OR-violating about grouping these worldwide incidences of a phenomenon together in one article. I believe that the delete side did a better job of making its case - one particularly strong question that I believe went unanswered was posted by 1629:. This is just a preliminary search and it shows some biased sources but for sure some RS. It is a topic discussed by a significant amount of independent sources. GNG is fulfilled. Keep an eye on it to make sure it does not become a POV coatrack (same should have been done for the Israel one but editors have tunnel vision). GNG is GNG even if it is just a stub and the garbage is riped out. 1843:, let me explain. The Israel apartheid runs into the same coatrack and misconstruction that this article does. However, if that article is kept despite those deficiencies and passes the relevant Knowledge policies, there is very little to distinguish this article from the israel-apartheid article. Thus, this should be kept not due to wp:othercrapexists, but due to wp:gng and wp:npov.-- 1299:- it has plenty of sources demonstrating that allegations of apartheid have indeed been made against Arab countries, but few about the phenomenon of 'Arab apartheid' as such, suggesting that collecting these instances into one article may not be justified. I would be more happy with it if the scope were broadened to include non-Arab countries, and it were renamed to something like 1526:

objectively) I also put links to Accusations of Arab Apartheid on relevant pages. I understood this to be standard practice on Knowledge. An individual named CJCurrie who has asked that this page be taken down has on March 22 at 23:33 taken all of the links down excepting only the link to the page on Apartheid in Israel. Is this correct behavior? A scholar like

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of the same skin color and physical type, but different identity, i.e. Egyptian Arab apartheid against Egyptian Copts. Lebanese Arab apartheid against Palestinian Arabs. Sunni apartheid against Shia in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. The concept of apartheid is distinguishable from that of racism, there are, for example, articles about both

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The core contention of the delete side is, as I understand it, that a large number of disparate uses of the word "apartheid" in reliable sources do not make the single subject "Allegations of apartheid" a valid subject, and that the collection of these uses into one article linked only by word choice

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it has also been asserted that the concept of Arab apartheid has not been asserted reliably, only instances in specific countries. I added two sentences with sources making clear that reliable people have asserted that "Arab apartheid" in the sense that major public intellectuals have made claims of

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To illustrate how silly the premise of the article is, I could quite easily create an article called "Accusations of Slavic Apartheid" covering discrimination by Czechs and Slovaks against Gypsies, Serbs against Albanians, Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians against Caucasians, and so on. There are

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takes a completely different approach. It assumes (as you appear to do as well) that all instances of discrimination in Arab counties constitute a generic form of "apartheid". However, it never actually makes that case. No source is cited to support that argument, hence the original research problem.

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deals with a very controversial topic, all sensible commentators on the subject will acknowledge that "the State of Israel" and "the Jewish people" are distinct concepts. Although many supporters of Israel regard the phrase "Israeli apartheid" as coded anti-Semitism, it is nonetheless not the same as

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was an attempt to revive the "Allegations of Apartheid" fiasco from a few years ago. It now appears that I was mistaken on this point, and I will withdraw that comment. I will also attempt to provide further context to this discussion as based on past precedent; I hope that my remarks will considered

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were substantive and not credibly rebutted. The mere fact that the article is sourced, really the best defense I see below, does not prove otherwise, as the very nature of the problem is that it sticks together bits that belong in other, already existing, articles, and I do not see a strong argument

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When racial apartheid fell in South Africa, Arab apartheid against the black southerners did not in Sudan. Arab insen- sitivity to the suffering of Africans in the South has led to an ongoing war that sends Arab militias from Khartoum ...By 1997 Moorish apartheid in Mauritania had driven 55000 black

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The sources discussing the specific concept of Arab apartheid are very solid. As are the many descriptions of countries such at Saudi Arabia where Shia, Christians or some other despised group live under a separate set of laws. Legal Christian residents of Saudi Arabia cannot hold public services

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I hope whoever closes this discussion will realize that most of the "votes" to keep this article (which aren't really votes in the proper sense, but anyway ...) are wide of the mark. The question we should concern ourselves with is not whether "Arab apartheid" or "apartheid in Arab states" exists or

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and that I subsequently removed these. This is not in any way contrary to policy or past practice, particularly when the article in question is of dubious quality. Readers should also note that I did not delete Ayittey's accusations against Mauritania and Sudan; I only removed a link and changed the

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What an odd opening sentence. The article itself begins and continues with extensive documentation of "old fashioned" hated of and discrimination against people with very dark skin in the Arab world. By contrast, I found the term Arab apartheid being used to deal with discrimination against people

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sees apartheid in the official Lebanese denial to Palestinian refugees not only of citizenship, but of the right to purchase real estate, hold jobs, or be admitted to hospitals, despite the fact that fully three generations of these families have been born and reared on Lebanese soil. This article

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my fella wiki-wikis...deleting the article is not any sort of compromise. there is sufficiently clear material, well sourced by well known people to have this article exist. i understand someone might not like it, but that is not what this is about. 'just the facts', please. put up the information,

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article that ran this month. Much of the material is very recent, postdating the articles you link to. You have not answered my question. I have raed the discussions (Not the articles, can they still be accessed?) Question? Why are these old articles relevant, reading the discussions about the

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The same logic applies to the phrase "Arab apartheid." It's not uncommon for some of Israel's most vocal supporters to refer to "Islamic state apartheid" or perhaps "Arab state apartheid" in describing conditions in other countries. I happen to think that these phrases are often used very cynically

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is a lousy article but at the very least it is a topic that has generated significant attention and controversy (c.f. Carter's book). I don't see the use of the term apartheid to describe certain practices in the Arab world as being nearly notable enough to warrant an article. The issues covered in

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So a few people used the word apartheid instead of racist or discrimatory, these few acts should be added to their respective article rather than creating a content fork. Things like "Lebanese laws that bar Palestinians from owning property." are common in most nations of the world like how Mexican

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for every negative action that the Arab world has ever been accused of. Just because a commentator uses the word "apartheid" does not make the criticisms similar. Moreover, how can one Arab group (the Bahraini or Lebanese governments) practice "apartheid" against another Arab group (i.e. Shiites in

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is not a zero-sum game, achieved by simply creating negative content to balance the positive, or in this case balancing a perceived negative article with the creation of another negative article. This approach to editing is generally held to be tendentious and has led to many blocks and bans from

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who are denied basic human rights, and on Gender Apartheid in Arab-Palestine. It is NOT included in 'Racism in Arab World' because it is also about Islamic Apartheid such as FreedomHouse accusing Saudi Arabia of religious apartheid, which is not race based. Moreover this is not charging officially

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Had the African Sudanese succumbed to this policy of Arabism and Islamism, Islamic apartheid would have prevailed in the Dusan said Elias N. Wakoson. In 1955, a group of Southern Sudanese revolted against the system... they have maintained a passive stance on the Arab apartheid and enslavement of

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LMFAO. Article looks good. If Israel can be accused of apartheid then ti is fun to see the Arabs accused of it. The only thing that should stand in the way of an article is if a source does not connect Arabs with apartheid but only individual countries. From what I have seen, some sources say "Oh

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This ethnic crisis is invariably between the Arabs and the black population. Although the conflict had been on for some time, it was only in the late 1980s that it came into the open. In 1984, the Force de Liberation Africaine de Mauritanians (FLAM) was formed, and in June 1986, it published the

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The list of "Articles for deletion" above is almost completely irrelevant, since so much of the discussion of this topic has taken place in 2010 and 2011. I created the article because Apartheid in the Arab world is a topic that is being widely discussed now. This was not so much the case when

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I was not aware that there had been previous pages about Arab apartheid deleted from Knowledge. The debates are interesting, but they are also ancient history. As far as I can tell, the last of them was deleted in July 2008. The application of the term "apartheid" to the mistreatment of ethnic

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I think it's highly relevant. CJCurrie highlighted above a previous AfD discussion which resulted in the deletion of an article which - though I can't now see it - sounds from the description like it was very similar to this one. The arguments put forward in that discussion are certainly highly

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I'm still waiting for someone on the "keep" side to address the core issue: that this article is simply a coatrack for a series of disparate sources that use the words "Arab apartheid" (or the words "Arab" and "apartheid" close together) in passing. There appear to be few, if any, sources that

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It seems the old articles can't be accessed - presumably if they're deleted they go completely and we can't see their histories? I can't comment about Brazil or France, but the descriptions of the article at the centre of the previous AfDs - "Allegations of Apartheid" - make it clear that that

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I can only assume that you didn't click on any of the links in the box, otherwise you would have seen that almost all concerned AfDs on a now-deleted article called "Allegations of apartheid". Your article essentially seems to be that old article minus all the non-Arab countries. The arguments

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a) arab apartheid as a term is used in reliable verifiable sources and references. not made up, no original synthetic research, etc.... b) i promise you, if there were reliable verifiable sources and references for jewish apartheid, it would most certainly be a wiki article (regardless of your

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QUESTION? I understood form the notice box that it was permissible to edit the page while this argument goes forward. I have expanded the article (the evidence that Arab Apartheid is a significant idea seems to me extensive and valid, I hope people writing on this page will read the article

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I agree that it is unfortunate that well-known words for things become used in less appropriate contexts (I am thinking of the word Fascism which really should pertain only to the Italian WWII era political group), but that does not mean that WP can pretend that they are not in wide use. The

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of the current page is inherently unsuitable, unless the point is to document instances of the incredibly specious claim that Arab people generally are guilty of "apartheid." (And as such sources would by their very nature represent only a fringe element, one wonders why such a page would be

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and Expand! Wide noteriety for Arab apartheid (A quick google search shows that too). this is not as TM tries to suggest about "every negative action," but about clear cut apartheid features, and this info about oppression in Arab countries with clear discriminatory practices/laws resembling

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article is that it moved from a back-and-forth about the accuracy of the criticism to an article about the debate as a phenomenon in itself. That clearly has not happened here. People making accusations of "Arab apartheid" is insufficient for an article, so Google searches of the phrase are

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It is a concept, not a phrase. I chose the title to state simply that these accusations are being made because I understood wikipedia to require an objective approach to information. it is the concept that is significant. As proven by the fact that it is being widely and increasingly

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It is in fact uncommon for a group that legally resided in a country for three generations to be forbidden to buy property, hold a job, or get hospital care because their great-great-grandparents were born in a specific country. The Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are in a fairly unique

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deals with a subject of encyclopedic merit, I am neither endorsing the analogy nor suggesting that the reality or non-reality of "Israeli apartheid" should be the standard by which the page's suitability should be judged. Rather, the page has encyclopedic merit because there has been an

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was created. There were several attempts to delete the page during the first two years of its history, and I believe that many of these efforts were politically motivated. This notwithstanding, the page remained on the project and a consensus eventually developed that the subject was

1891:- You can always question the content of an article. But the content that are disputed can often be removed or re-written in a better way. I see no reason to delete the article in full. Also I am saying Keep per Brewcewers reasonings which is closest to the truth on this matter.-- 582:

Words have specific origins, then their use broadens. Apartheid is an Afrikaans word coined in the specific conditions of South Africa. Today, however, apartheid is used in political discourse when one group is perceived to relegate another group into an inferior legal status.

2953:"Prioryman, I clicked on the deletion discussion that you linked to, and I am frankly puzzled that you think them relevant. The topic of those articles was "Accusations of apartheid" or "Apartheid outside South Africa" There was nothing to indicate that they were about 1347:

beginning in the spring of 2010 that popularized the concept of Arab apartheid. He wrote 2 such articles in 2010 and another just this month. "Apartheid" has been used to accuse Arab regimes of abusing minority groups by such distinguished people as former Canadian

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This is quite beside the point. As I've said above, the relevant question is whether or not there's a credible public discourse on the specific subject of "apartheid in Arab states." The sources, which you don't appear to have checked, do not back up this assertion.

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is an ethnic and social identity, not a government. We don't have Allegations of Jewish/Turkish/Kurd apartheid. Assuming this AFD is revolved, I would support a speedy move to something like Allegations of apartheid in Arab governments or Muslim governments/nations.

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predated Carter's book; I said that Carter's book brought the debate concerning "apartheid and Israel" into a broader public discourse. I could add that the publicity accorded to the book finally settled the question of whether or not the article currently titled

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The reason is that these culturally coherent areas are often swept by political trends that happen in tandem across a culturally similar area. So we have sentences such as "the wave of pro-democracy protests now sweeping the Arab World." and we have Professor

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The manifesto denounced what it called "Mauritanian apartheid" and the " Arabization of the Mauritanian society."... The Black/Arab ethnic conflict inside Mauritania has influenced the neighboring states of Mali and Senegal. The largely black state of Senegal

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is available on this topic. In particular, google: sudan Darfur arab apartheid. Many scholars and journalists have described the pan-Arab nature of support for the apartheid-like policies of the Sudanese government discrimination against non-Arab Sudanese

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and that they imply sweeping, simplistic, and ultimately unjustifiable claims against diverse and multi-faceted societies. However, neither phrase is quite so problematic as "Arab apartheid," which is capable of being read as targeting Arab people generally.

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Unfortunately you are not addressing the fundamental flaws that have been pointed out on this page - you are merely adding to the pile of cherry-picked quotations, from a very biased starting point (I mean, "Apartheid road in Saudi Arabia"? - come on).

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a large number of disparate uses of the word "apartheid" in reliable sources do not make the single subject "Allegations of apartheid" a valid subject, and ... the collection of these uses into one article linked only by word choice is a violation of

296: 2523:. The existence of one article doesn't justify the existence of another article. Each article has to stand or fall on its own merits. The problem with the article we're discussing is that it so clearly fails on multiple grounds, most obviously 2244:

but notability is shown in a google news archive search with the likes of the Washington Post. So this article should be recreated when it meets our standards. Hopefully by then you guys voting to salt will understand policy and the notability

1719:, and article still on the hit-list of many, many POV warriors. I really don't see why we allow the continued recreation of the same material under slightly different article titles. Honestly, delete this, salt it, and take the proponents to 3331:

of worship or build a church. I find the idea of a highway system that directs non-Muslims to a separate road offensive in the extreme. And an exact parallel to the buses, schools and drinking fountains that America used to have for blacks.

661:- There are sources, and the terminology is not unfitting, and has been used by sources (in both the Israeli and Arab cases). However, this is going to be an NPOV nightmare, so while it seems a credible article, I wouldn't be sad if it goes! 1689:

FWIW, I agree with a lot of the criticisms of the current version of the article, but I think that the notability of the topic has been established. I think that it would be possible to re-write this to solve the NPOV and SYNTH issues.

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As I said above, the existence of one article doesn't justify the existence of another. But let's compare the two anyway (though I should clarify it's not a topic I know much about - I'm commenting only on their quality as articles).

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someone asserted above that the article accusing Israel of practicing apartheid was only written after Jimmy Carter's book was published. I checked the dates, Cater published in the fall of 2006, the article was written in the

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could look like it is all Arab people who are accused in apartheid, but what is a good name. There's only one Jewish state - Israel, and there are 22 Arab countries that all have apartheid - kind of hard to come up with generic

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source it reliably and let it be. i still don't see any reason for all of this hesitation to let it stand. the time spent twisting and turning every WP:this and that could've been used to just editing the article and making it

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A large number of Arab regimes (Sudan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the palestinian Authority, Mauritania, Bahrain, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and probably others not yet in the article) have been accused of practicing forms of

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brought the debate into a much wider sphere of discourse. Today, it's unlikely that any serious contributor to the Knowledge would dispute the suitability of a page on this topic, whatever specific issues they may have with

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Arab apartheid reigns supreme in Mauritania and Sudan. In Mauritania, blacks have no political power and cannot vote. Like their counterparts in South Africa , they are persecuted and discriminated against by Arab masters.

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ARAB APARTHEID In some parts of Africa there is a dominant Islam which allows practically no room for other ... by Arabs against black Africans has become a growing problem in Africa, especially in Mauritania, Sudan, and

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does not exist. Likewise, it's not particularly relevant that some authors have used the phrase "Arab apartheid" in published books and articles, and it's certainly not relevant that there's a separate article entitled

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or consensus establishing that those sources treat this as a singular, coherent topic. Numerous merger targets for such bits, to the extent they are valid and sourced, have been noted in the discussion below, such as

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describes an issue that has been the subject of high-profile debate among academics and politicians, including entire books on the subject. It discusses arguments pro and con in what looks to me like a fairly neutral

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actually consider the subject in any detail -- there's certainly not a significant body of credible secondary sources (at least some of which must be scholarly) that address the issue of "apartheid in Arab states."

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This article is not about racism. It is about social, economic and legal inferiority imposed on a racially indistinguishable group by the governing group. Like the Lebanese laws that bar Palestinians from owning

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On another matter, I'd like to request that whoever closes this discussion be someone who's (i) familiar with past "apartheid" debates on Knowledge, and (ii) not aligned with either side in those discussions.

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articles, I see a great deal of material about accusations of Apartheid in Brazil and France. Not about Arab Apartheid. What do accusations of apartheid in Brazil or France have to do with Arab apartheid?

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It is possible that there's a level of discourse concerning "apartheid" in individual countries (such as Sudan, perhaps) to justify pages for those countries. If so, I will not object to the creation of those

248: 1447:*The Economist is a reliable source. The title of the article suits the content it is based on. Notable figures are drawing parallels between apartheid policies and Arab governments. This is precisely what 306: 2337:

a President of the United States and a Nobel Laureate made the analogy. Perhaps this article should be deleted, and revived when sources with more gravitas have established notability for this topic?

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Nonesense. If some Israeli Mizrachi/Arabic Jews are "blamed" for "racism" against Arabs... so can this be. The fact is that there's Arab discrimination against Arab-Palestinians is undisputed. there's NO

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Since that is precisely what brewcrewer argued...that he sees the same problems with the Israeli article, so if that is kept then this has to be kept as well...yea, it kinda does apply to your argument.

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When Sunni Arabs in Lebanon pass laws against Sunni Palestinians in Lebanon it is not religious intolerance. And don't look now, but the black-skinned people being killed by Arabs in Darfur are Muslim.

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I'm afraid it doesn't answer my objections. The objection is not to the title of the article, it's to the basic conception of the article. To borrow from the administrator's comments in italics above,

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I agree; I've added a template taken from that page and updated so that the links to previous AfDs are readily available. There definitely seems to be a bit of a history with this and similar pages.

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Malik, the reliability of source is not necessarily dependent on how information is delivered (editorial). The first source is an editorial, but it is still hosted by a reliable news organization.

2939:, that you have managed to create a new version of a very controversial article that was ultimately deleted - but unfortunately your version has the same fundamental flaws as the deleted version. 330: 2356:

photograph says it all; it does exist. So the subject is valid; I do not have time for anything other than an assumption that sources exist. I will take Benny and Wikifan, etc's word for it.

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Moreover, they have committed to a program of de-Africanization through forced Arabization and Isalmization of the people in South Sudan, the Nuba Mountains and southern Blue Nile regions.

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website since Hudson runs a stable website and despite Israel's prowess in all things computer, the Jerusalem Post has a lousy website. A case of the cobbler's children going barefoot.

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article exists; each topic must be evaluated on its own terms and according to what reliable sources report, without regard to our own subjective notions of fairness within Knowledge.

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was changed into a redirect in 2006 and only recently brought back by a single editor. I think that that article should also be changed back into a redirect for all the same reasons.

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page (beyond the current redirect) if there are enough valid sources to back it up, but that's not the present issue. I'd ask you to read my objections again more carefully, please.

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I don't see how this article is different from the other articles of it's kind. It is a documentation of reality, has good and reliable sources, and the subject is very notable.

979:. Mainstream writers and experts have compared numerous Arab governments to the South African apartheid state as well as apartheid-style governments in general. This is notable. 1581:- the individual sections are probably all notable, but connecting them all for being in the Arab world even though they're otherwise unrelated is far too much of a synthesis. 95: 2206:

as per CJCurrie and Tarc. As CJCurrie says, if there's appropriate material, an article specifically on, say, the Sudanese case can be created. Part of what happened with the

2062:, and so forth. These are also controversial and disputed topics, but there's a sufficient body of credible, secondary-source information to justify articles on all of them. 1144: 1085:

Malik is absolutely wrong, of course jpost is reliable. any accusations of apartheid on Israel or about others, is an "opinion." So what? If you object that it's Malik's

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Africans into Senegal, Mali, and surrounding countries. Judging by the numbers slaughtered, black, Arab, and Moorish apartheids have killed more Africans than white.

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see the treatment of the people of Darfur by the Arab government and dominant ethnie of Sudan as a form of Apartheid, Ayittey also applies the term to Mauritania.

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I deleted the box because the articles you had linked to werre actually about topics like "Tourist apartheid in Brazil" Not relevant to the topic of Arab Apartheid.

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Several ancient articles existed on topics more or less (often far less) similar to this. They were deleted 3 years ago and up. Political conversations change.

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I am continuing to add material on Arab apartheid from Arab commentators, Arab academics, think tanks, and more. A lot of ink is being spilled on this topic.

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All these requests for SALT are ridiculous. So I will pretend that you provided a reason instead of just a meaningless !vote: This article can be deleted per

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As you can see in the following Arab apartheid was already charged in the 1980s by a Mauritanian Organization FLAM and publicized a leaflet about it.

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public debate on the subject. There are numerous volumes of academic literature on the subject, former Israeli cabinet ministers such as

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Arab apartheid but citing claims of accusations of Arab Apartheid, fair enough. Disliking a page does NOT constitute an 'attack article."

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You may want to double-check your Google hits. I see only 655 distinct pages on "Google Everything"; and only 20 on "Google Books". --

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Comments and respectful discourse are welcome. Again, I hope whoever closes this debate will take these arguments into consideration.

61:. I find completely unpersuasive and not consistent with policy the claim that this article is necessary to maintain NPOV because an 2990:

delete others' contributions simply because you do not agree with them. That is not acceptable at all and will get you into trouble.

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than the pseudo claims of "apartheid" on democratic Israel fighting off attacks. Expand on: Syria VS oppressed Kurdish minority

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been the subject of serious scrutiny, at least some of which should be scholarly. The answer, quite plainly, is that it has not.

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The "apartheid" debates have a long, though not necessarily a noble, history on Knowledge. In 2006, the page currently known as

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There is more in the article, and more that I have not had time ot add to the article yet, but you cannot google a phrase

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and appears to be a reasonable article. It could be a useful model for the improvement of this article on Arab apartheid.

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It is funny. If you do not see he humor in it then I don't know what to tell you. But regardless of any mentality or POV:

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were not reliable because they were published by a think tank. All three in fact appeared in a national newspaper, the

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This is a brazen attempt to restore the substance of the "Allegations of apartheid" page, which was deleted a while ago.

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article. This reasoning is entirely contrary to the purpose of the project and to reliable past practice on this issue.

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sees an analogy to apartheid in the treatment of the discriminated against Shia majority by the Sunni ruling class of

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relevant. In particular, I'd like to draw your attention to comments of the closing administrator in that discussion:

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This is completely irrelevent to the present discussion. As I've said before, I'm not opposed to the creation of a

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it appears that all is sourced and quite clear that it is as real as 'the other one'. no reason to delete at all.

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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is

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namiba TM, "Never been accused of"? Excuse me??? How about in the Arab apartheid accusations already in the 1980s

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necessary or desireable in the first place.) If this page is retained, which I truly hope is not the case, then

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a

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Luckily that's all irrelevant to this discussion and my reason that this article needs to be deleted is still

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apartheid or apartheid-like policies being practiced by Arabs against disadvantaged gorups in many countries.

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appear to be legitimate, but they are rather lightweight. The corresponding Israel article was created only

682:. The criticism that some Arabs are racist has been made in reliable sources—and we have an article for it ( 2791: 2783: 1053: 691: 536: 426: 2873: 2835: 1507: 1456: 1038: 984: 924: 666: 166: 3443:

Maybe merge with accusation on Israel by creating a page "Accusations of apartheid in the Middle East."--

686:). The criticism that some Arabs are sexist has also been made in reliable sources, and our article for 3128:

A growing number of journalists, statesmen and scholars have, in recent years, discussed the concept of

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So you are making assertions about how these old articles were "constructed" without having read them.

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Passionless is baselessly attacking maresi, not to mention his "reliablity" contributions that show a

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I think I should amend my previous comments on this discussion. When I first intervened, I said that

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published a widely circulated and cited article asking "Where’s the international outcry against

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against that article are identical, as the quote above shows, to those being made here. Please do

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3) Accusations have been made on both: Individual Arab countries and on the Arab world as a whole.

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for details). I've removed the reference from the Ayittey article, as it was patently unsuitable.

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I don't think anyone here has questioned notability, the problem with the article is inherent

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is dominated by editorials and opinion pieces (by experts and notable persons of course). See

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.

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noes: Israel apartheid. Oh yeah, well they say Arabs do it, too". That makes me lean towards

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It would be more accurate to say that User:I.Casaubon tagged several articles with links to

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these concepts have received serious scrutiny, at least some of which must be scholarly.

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revolves around - a long survey of people who claim Israel is/isn't an apartheid state.

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The core concept. This will satisfy the objections expressed by Prioryman and CJCurrie.

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Umm... so... what? And actually, I joined Knowledge over a week ago.... so... yeah....

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In Sudan and Mauritania, Arabs held power and blacks were excluded (Arab apartheid)..

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practice apartheid against non-Arab Muslim citizens can surely be linked to this page.

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by the organization fighting for Mauritanians' rights. see my comment at the bottom.--

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This is a brand new article about Apartheid in the Arab world. It was provoked by a

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relevant question is whether the specific concept of "apartheid in Arab states" has

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here, there are several well sourced articles that many Arab systems are accused of.

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (second nomination)

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (4th nomination)]]

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in a fair light by other contributors and by whoever decides to close this debate.

393: 1391:) and in serious articles and books is like denying that the tide is coming in. 339:

opened 19 Oct 2007, closed procedurally in deference to the ArbCom investigation

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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to

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Africa after the Cold War: the changing perspectives on security - Pages 126-127

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Bahrain or Palestinians in Lebanon). It totally misconstrues the notion of what

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The same is very much true for this article. It seems to me, on reading that

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argument by another user is probably not the most beneficial use of a !vote.

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Sure. But the Economist doesn't have a policy called Neutral Point of View.—

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is also damning, and practiced by Arab Muslims against black African Muslims.

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has been applied increasingly to these Arab governments in the last 2 years.

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fourth nomination)

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (second nomination)

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George B. N. Ayittey - Transnational Publishers, 1991 - 547 pages - Page 29

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by the same author has lots of information about apartheid in Arab world.--

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination)

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination)

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (third nomination)

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I should raise one further objection to this article: its title. Although

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Please provide a valid reason why this should not be stayed on, thank you.

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here by citing the sources that specifically state apartyheid accusations?

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (Fourth nomination)

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (second nomination

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (fifth nomination)

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As I've said before, I won't object to the creation of articles such as

2558:, you'd like it better? See, I might agree with you that naming article 587:, for example, is widely discussed, with no racial connotation. As is 2267:

2) There are roughly 4,000,000 results on google for 'Arab apartheid.'

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Some people have suggested that this article provides "balance" to the

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mess of an attack article, apparently created to serve as some sort of

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (8th nomination)

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (7th nomination)

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (6th nomination)

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Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (5th nomination)

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Um, do you realize that those are both opinion columns and therefore

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Also, the User:Chorleston account has made fewer than twenty edits.

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here is worth keeping, but not in the way it's currently presented.

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someone asserted that the series of articles on Arab Apartheid by

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Brazilian apartheid

2762:"serious problems of real apartheid in Arab and Muslim nations." 1562:

I didn't realize there was still a link on the Israel page, btw.

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Apartheid outside of South Africa

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.

3124:"serious problems of real apartheid in Arab and Muslim nations." 2674:. They were reprinted widely. I linked to the articles on the 1839:

we must have this article. Before anyone jumps all over me with

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is precisely the kind of mentality that makes this topic area a

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid

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1) The objectionists here have a history of anti-Israel bias.

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this page may be of some relevance to the present discussion.

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to Prioryman. Don't you see anything wrong with the article

113:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, 1118:

this article (which are encyclopedic) should be covered in

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Adebayo Oyebade, Abiodun Alao - 1998 - 228 pages - Preview

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That objection is valid whatever the article is called.

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Knowledge:Do not disrupt Knowledge to illustrate a point

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unhelpful. There would need to be appropriate articles

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This article discusses accusations of apartheid in the

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doesnt apply to my valid Keep comment. But good try.--

1303:; or alternatively if it were merged into the article 445: 3393:

Sudan: Volume 3, Issue 3 - Pax Sudani Network - 1993

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Negative ethnicity: from bias to genocide - Page 152

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make it obvious what is going on with this article.

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Let me be very clear on this point: when I say that

1868:past ArbCom cases, both in this topic area and in 1723:; this disruption has been tolerated long enough. 1530:who has made accusations that Arab governments in 3435:George B. N. Ayittey - 1999 - 416 pages - Preview 3149:Ayittey accused Sudan of "deftly manipulat(ing) 2790:. Not the best basis for creating a new article. 2139:I support all that was said, and on a side note, 2050:For the same reason, Knowledge also has pages on 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 3495:). No further edits should be made to this page. 3464:Sigh ... this account has fewer than ten edits. 3385:"Manifesto of the Oppressed Black Mauritanians." 1145:list of Middle East-related deletion discussions 254:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Gender apartheid 309:- opened 5 Jun 2006, closed as "no consensus" 2038:have endorsed the analogy, and Jimmy Carter's 2325:- There does seem to be the distinct odor of 459: 133:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected 103:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has 8: 2807:Note: This debate has been included in the 2732:(which I see already exists as a redirect), 1295:. At the moment, this article is a bit of a 1162:Note: This debate has been included in the 1143:Note: This debate has been included in the 321:6 Apr 2007, closed as "overturn and relist" 3101:Political conversations frequently discuss 2809:list of Africa-related deletion discussions 1468:Yes, I understand the (many) problems with 1164:list of Africa-related deletion discussions 2806: 1161: 1142: 107:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and 1597:Please explain why they're not connected. 836:laws bar Americans from owning property. 694:. Last thing we need is a content fork.— 2552:Arab countries and the apartheid analogy 315:opened 29 Mar 2007, closed as "delete" 127:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. 3415:George B. N. Ayittey - 1992 - 412 pages 48:. The arguments below that this was a 3347:Saudi Arabia and the Apartheid Analogy 2730:Saudi Arabia and the Apartheid Analogy 1033:::What is this a POV fork of Passion? 603:. The distinguished Arab journalist 345:opened 8 Jul 2008, closed as "delete" 1778:Maresi is an account created today... 327:opened 11 Apr 2007, closed as "keep" 7: 2556:Arab world and the apartheid analogy 3405:Koigi wa Wamwere - 2003 - 207 pages 2705:dealt with an encyclopedic subject. 2637:personal preference to delete it). 333:opened 12 Aug 2007, closed 26 Oct 246: 3105:in much the same way they discuss 2215:the criticism to avoid this being 24: 2782:It somewhat feels like a case of 2329:about this article. The sources 782:Oh so you mean this is a fork of 2891:these old discussions were held. 2788:Israel and the Apartheid Analogy 2711:Israel and the Apartheid Analogy 2703:Israel and the Apartheid Analogy 2698:Israel and the Apartheid Analogy 2580:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2548:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2472:. This is a textbook example of 2208:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2103:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2096:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2083:In assessing the suitability of 2045:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2027:Israel and the apartheid analogy 2019:Israel and the apartheid analogy 1833:Israel and the apartheid analogy 1827:. My position is that all these 1470:Israel and the apartheid analogy 1449:Israel and the apartheid analogy 1199:Israel and the apartheid analogy 1124:Discrimination in the Arab world 1115:Israel and the apartheid analogy 973:Israel and the apartheid analogy 589:Israel and the apartheid analogy 541:Accusations of Israeli Apartheid 86: 63:Allegations of Israeli apartheid 3423:Indigenous African institutions 2726:Sudan and the Apartheid Analogy 1367:, and by journalists including 911:Supported by reliable sources, 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 2525:original research by synthesis 2474:original research by synthesis 1301:Apartheid outside South Africa 1: 3177:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 2597:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 2560:Accusations of Arab apartheid 2085:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 2074:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 2040:Palestine Peace not Apartheid 2009:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 1556:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 356:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 244:AfDs related to this article: 238:Accusations of Arab Apartheid 123:on the part of others and to 2696:Actually, I didn't say that 2521:Knowledge:Other stuff exists 2519:I think you need to look at 2122:its title should be changed. 1158:) 00:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC) 3153:" to carry out policies of 3130:apartheid in the Arab world 766:Racism in the United States 3512: 3474:01:58, 29 March 2011 (UTC) 3453:01:43, 29 March 2011 (UTC) 3413:Africa betrayed - Page 124 3359:23:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3341:21:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3326:21:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3311:21:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3295:18:53, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3269:16:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3243:15:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3212:13:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3189:13:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3179:to delegitimize a concept. 3164:And this month journalist 3057:16:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3045:Social apartheid in Brazil 3039:16:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3023:15:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 3000:15:23, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 2981:14:43, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 2967:13:57, 28 March 2011 (UTC) 2957:Why did you bring them up? 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On second thought 943:reliable sources. — 3137:American University 2834:as per I.Casaubon. 2078:Talk:George Ayittey 1984:To NickCTs comment 1715:counter-balance to 1350:Minister of Justice 117:by counting votes. 96:not a majority vote 3120:Harvard Law School 2937:earlier discussion 2917:is a violation of 2792:Somedifferentstuff 2758:Harvard Law School 2713:on Knowledge. The 2072:The current page, 1841:wp:othercrapexists 1514: 1463: 1328:, per applicant.-- 1045: 991: 931: 623:Lots more material 559:Not true. What is 3166:Kahled Abu Toameh 3159:against non-Arabs 3006:Kahled abu Toameh 2874:AFolkSingersBeard 2836:AFolkSingersBeard 2826: 2812: 2676:Hudson Insititute 2668:Khaled Abu Toameh 2420: 2403:comment added by 1717:Israeli apartheid 1496: 1488: 1446: 1438: 1415: 1398:comment added by 1345:Khaled Abu Toameh 1181: 1167: 1159: 1148: 1032: 970: 906: 753: 710: 605:Khaled Abu Toameh 232: 215:comment added by 198: 197: 194: 121:assume good faith 3503: 3490: 3398:black Africans. 3373:Per I.Casaubon. 2813: 2419: 2397: 2171:per CJCurrie. — 2157: 2149: 2141:Gender apartheid 2060:Gender apartheid 2052:Social apartheid 1853: 1848: 1792: 1784: 1480: 1478: 1430: 1428: 1414: 1392: 1369:Nicholas Kristof 1361:Koigi wa Wamwere 1168: 1149: 1087:personal opinion 1078: 1070: 1024: 1016: 894: 886: 850: 842: 800: 792: 745: 743: 702: 700: 597:Nicholas Kristof 585:Gender apartheid 535:- Clear case of 464: 463: 449: 397: 379: 231: 209: 192: 180: 164: 148: 129: 99:, but instead a 90: 83: 44:The result was 34: 3511: 3510: 3506: 3505: 3504: 3502: 3501: 3500: 3499: 3493:deletion review 3486: 3170:Arab apartheid? 3151:Arab solidarity 3116:Alan Dershowitz 2786:in response to 2784:WP:NeenerNeener 2754:Alan Dershowitz 2656:matters of fact 2398: 2204:Delete and salt 2180: 2169:Delete and salt 2152: 2145: 2005:Further comment 1851: 1846: 1787: 1780: 1474: 1424: 1393: 1373:Ben-Dror Yemini 1365:Alan Dershowitz 1293:Rename or Merge 1248:Further comment 1193:. Seems like a 1073: 1066: 1019: 1012: 952: 889: 882: 845: 838: 795: 788: 739: 696: 539:in response to 537:WP:NeenerNeener 406: 370: 354: 348: 241: 210: 182: 170: 154: 138: 125:sign your posts 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3509: 3507: 3498: 3497: 3482: 3481: 3480: 3479: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3436: 3434: 3426: 3424: 3416: 3414: 3406: 3404: 3396: 3394: 3386: 3383: 3381: 3368: 3367: 3366: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3362: 3361: 3299: 3298: 3297: 3282: 3272: 3271: 3248: 3247: 3246: 3245: 3215: 3214: 3200:Arab Apartheid 3192: 3191: 3173: 3162: 3147: 3141:George Ayittey 3134: 3126: 3122:writing about 3103:the Arab world 3099: 3092: 3088: 3084: 3083: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3073: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3059: 2955:Arab Apartheid 2933: 2932: 2931: 2912: 2911: 2904: 2903: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2867: 2847: 2846: 2828: 2827: 2803: 2802: 2776: 2775: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2734:if and only if 2722: 2706: 2679: 2672:Jerusalem Post 2664: 2659: 2658: 2652: 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Sucks, huh? 1667: 1663: 1662: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1645: 1642: 1641: 1640: 1636: 1632: 1628: 1624: 1619: 1618: 1614: 1613: 1608: 1604: 1600: 1596: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1590: 1587: 1584: 1580: 1577: 1576: 1573: 1569: 1565: 1561: 1557: 1553: 1552: 1549: 1545: 1541: 1537: 1533: 1529: 1524: 1523: 1513: 1509: 1505: 1500: 1495: 1494: 1491: 1487: 1483: 1479: 1477: 1471: 1467: 1466: 1465: 1464: 1462: 1458: 1454: 1450: 1445: 1444: 1441: 1437: 1433: 1429: 1427: 1421: 1420: 1419: 1418: 1413: 1409: 1405: 1401: 1397: 1390: 1389:The Economist 1386: 1382: 1378: 1374: 1370: 1366: 1362: 1358: 1355:, professors 1354: 1351: 1346: 1341: 1339: 1335: 1331: 1327: 1324: 1322: 1318: 1314: 1310: 1306: 1302: 1298: 1294: 1291: 1290: 1283: 1279: 1275: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1265: 1261: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1243: 1240: 1236: 1232: 1228: 1224: 1221: 1217: 1214: 1212: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1192: 1188: 1185: 1184: 1180: 1176: 1172: 1165: 1157: 1153: 1146: 1141: 1140: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1116: 1113: 1110: 1109: 1100: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1079: 1077: 1071: 1069: 1063: 1059: 1055: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1046: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1028: 1025: 1023: 1017: 1015: 1009: 1005: 1001: 1000: 990: 986: 982: 978: 974: 969: 968: 967: 966: 965: 964: 963: 962: 955: 951: 946: 945:Malik Shabazz 942: 938: 937: 936: 935: 934: 933: 932: 930: 926: 922: 918: 914: 910: 898: 895: 893: 887: 885: 879: 875: 874: 873: 869: 865: 860: 859: 858: 857: 854: 851: 849: 843: 841: 834: 831: 830: 822: 818: 814: 810: 806: 804: 801: 799: 793: 791: 785: 781: 780: 779: 775: 771: 767: 763: 762:Jim Crow laws 758: 756: 752: 748: 744: 742: 736: 732: 731: 730: 726: 722: 717: 716: 713: 709: 705: 701: 699: 693: 689: 685: 681: 677: 674: 672: 668: 664: 660: 657: 656: 653: 649: 645: 641: 640: 637: 633: 629: 624: 621: 619: 615: 611: 606: 602: 598: 594: 590: 586: 581: 578: 577: 574: 570: 566: 562: 558: 557: 554: 550: 546: 542: 538: 534: 531: 530: 529: 522: 518: 514: 510: 507: 506: 505: 504: 501: 497: 493: 489: 484: 483: 482: 481: 477: 476:apartheid was 472: 462: 458: 455: 452: 448: 444: 440: 437: 434: 431: 428: 425: 422: 419: 416: 412: 409: 408:Find sources: 404: 401: 395: 391: 387: 383: 378: 374: 369: 365: 361: 357: 353: 352: 351: 344: 341: 338: 335: 332: 331:ArbCom review 329: 326: 323: 320: 317: 314: 311: 308: 305: 303: 300: 298: 295: 292: 290: 287: 285: 282: 280: 277: 275: 272: 270: 267: 265: 262: 260: 257: 255: 252: 250: 247: 245: 239: 236: 230: 226: 222: 218: 214: 207: 203: 202: 201: 190: 186: 178: 174: 168: 162: 158: 152: 146: 142: 136: 132: 128: 126: 122: 116: 112: 111: 106: 102: 98: 97: 92: 89: 85: 84: 81: 80: 76: 75: 70: 69: 64: 60: 55: 51: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 3487: 3484: 3440: 3432: 3422: 3412: 3402: 3392: 3379: 3374: 3370: 3369: 3277: 3251: 3221: 3199: 3195: 3176: 3169: 3158: 3154: 3150: 3144: 3129: 3123: 3110: 3106: 3102: 3095: 3079: 2987: 2954: 2927:User:Ceedjee 2915: 2869: 2852: 2831: 2779: 2761: 2733: 2718: 2714: 2655: 2543: 2498: 2469: 2452: 2432:Walid Phares 2423: 2399:— Preceding 2393: 2352: 2334: 2330: 2322: 2262: 2261: 2212: 2203: 2186: 2168: 2154: 2146: 2119: 2114: 2039: 2031: 2004: 1986:WP:OTHERCRAP 1961: 1924:WP:OTHERCRAP 1907:WP:OTHERCRAP 1888: 1856:(yada, yada) 1844: 1824: 1803: 1799: 1789: 1781: 1775: 1755: 1754: 1744: 1739: 1704: 1686: 1665: 1643: 1622: 1616: 1615: 1586:(let's chat) 1578: 1504:Wikifan12345 1475: 1453:Wikifan12345 1425: 1394:— Preceding 1381:Irshad Manji 1353:Irwin Cotler 1325: 1308: 1292: 1247: 1219: 1215: 1197:response to 1186: 1111: 1086: 1075: 1067: 1035:Wikifan12345 1031: 1021: 1013: 981:Wikifan12345 940: 921:Wikifan12345 908: 905: 891: 883: 847: 839: 832: 797: 789: 740: 697: 687: 675: 663:Bennydigital 658: 622: 579: 532: 527: 508: 468: 456: 450: 442: 435: 429: 423: 417: 407: 349: 243: 211:— Preceding 199: 188: 176: 167:sockpuppetry 160: 149:; suspected 144: 130: 118: 114: 108: 100: 94: 72: 66: 45: 43: 31: 28: 3161:in Darfur." 2430:written by 2358:Anarchangel 2245:guidelines. 2221:WP:coatrack 2147:Passionless 2036:Yossi Sarid 1905:Echoing an 1829:wp:coatrack 1782:Passionless 1745:facts based 1709:synthesized 1377:Rami Khouri 1203:Tzu Zha Men 1068:Passionless 1014:Passionless 1004:WP:COATRACK 884:Passionless 840:Passionless 790:Passionless 471:WP:COATRACK 433:free images 3445:Doogielien 3441:Suggestion 3333:I.Casaubon 3303:I.Casaubon 3257:WP:PERFECT 3252:compromise 3204:I.Casaubon 3181:I.Casaubon 3139:economist 3091:apartheid. 3049:I.Casaubon 3031:I.Casaubon 2973:I.Casaubon 2959:I.Casaubon 2893:I.Casaubon 2765:I.Casaubon 2760:describes 2752:Professor 2684:I.Casaubon 2273:Chorlseton 2225:Bondegezou 2120:at minimum 1808:Chorlseton 1666:GNG is GNG 1599:Chorlseton 1540:I.Casaubon 1532:Mauritania 1476:S Marshall 1426:S Marshall 1400:I.Casaubon 1091:Chorlseton 1008:WP:POVFORK 977:WP:NEWSORG 878:WP:POVFORK 864:I.Casaubon 821:Mauritania 809:I.Casaubon 770:I.Casaubon 741:S Marshall 721:I.Casaubon 698:S Marshall 690:is called 644:Chorlseton 642:well said. 628:I.Casaubon 610:I.Casaubon 565:Chorlseton 513:Doogielien 492:Chorlseton 217:I.Casaubon 206:Arab world 101:discussion 50:WP:POVFORK 3418:Tanzania. 3318:Prioryman 3235:Prioryman 3155:apartheid 3096:apartheid 3080:The facts 3015:Prioryman 2992:Prioryman 2941:Prioryman 2857:Prioryman 2816:• Gene93k 2616:Prioryman 2529:Prioryman 2482:Prioryman 2436:this book 2340:Noleander 2290:Noleander 2032:extensive 1385:apartheid 1297:synthesis 1274:Prioryman 1171:• Gene93k 1152:• Gene93k 1122:or, say, 862:position. 786:as well. 719:property. 626:citizens. 157:canvassed 151:canvassed 110:consensus 54:synthesis 3466:CJCurrie 3351:CJCurrie 3287:CJCurrie 3229:WP:SYNTH 3107:the West 2923:WP:SYNTH 2738:CJCurrie 2544:Question 2478:this one 2457:Broccolo 2428:the book 2413:contribs 2401:unsigned 2377:CJCurrie 2304:CJCurrie 2217:WP:synth 2127:CJCurrie 2067:coatrack 1564:CJCurrie 1559:wording. 1534:and the 1408:contribs 1396:unsigned 1330:Severino 1313:Robofish 1256:CJCurrie 1250:I think 1231:CJCurrie 1223:CJCurrie 1195:WP:POINT 1191:GabrielF 1128:GabrielF 488:COATRACK 400:View log 225:contribs 213:unsigned 189:username 183:{{subst: 177:username 171:{{subst: 161:username 155:{{subst: 145:username 139:{{subst: 3375:Comment 3278:Comment 2663:spring. 2563:name.-- 2499:Comment 2323:Comment 2247:Cptnono 2191:John KB 2187:Delete 1865:WP:NPOV 1837:WP:NPOV 1756:comment 1692:Qrsdogg 1670:Cptnono 1631:Cptnono 1617:Comment 1309:content 680:WP:NPOV 601:Bahrain 545:Carrite 439:WP refs 427:scholar 373:protect 368:history 153:users: 68:postdlf 3261:Soosim 3196:rename 2780:Delete 2719:itself 2639:Soosim 2503:Soosim 2470:Delete 2405:Soosim 2091:pages. 1990:BabbaQ 1970:NickCT 1964:- Per 1962:Delete 1928:BabbaQ 1893:BabbaQ 1870:others 1852:crewer 1835:, per 1760:Maresi 1713:pointy 1705:Delete 1583:Yaksar 1579:Delete 1326:Delete 1307:. The 1216:Delete 1189:, per 1187:Delete 1112:Delete 1089:again. 1060:, and 833:Delete 676:Delete 533:Delete 411:Google 377:delete 52:and a 46:DELETE 3225:WP:OR 3133:used. 2919:WP:OR 2335:after 2213:about 2178:Stalk 1806:bias. 1721:WP:AE 1536:Sudan 950:Stalk 454:JSTOR 415:books 394:views 386:watch 382:links 131:Note: 16:< 3470:talk 3449:talk 3371:Keep 3355:talk 3337:talk 3322:talk 3307:talk 3291:talk 3265:talk 3239:talk 3208:talk 3185:talk 3053:talk 3035:talk 3019:talk 2996:talk 2977:talk 2963:talk 2945:talk 2897:talk 2878:talk 2870:Note 2861:talk 2853:Note 2840:talk 2832:Keep 2820:talk 2796:talk 2769:talk 2742:talk 2715:only 2688:talk 2643:talk 2620:talk 2583:way. 2569:talk 2565:Mbz1 2533:talk 2507:talk 2486:talk 2461:talk 2453:Keep 2444:talk 2440:Mbz1 2424:Keep 2409:talk 2394:Keep 2381:talk 2362:talk 2353:Keep 2344:talk 2308:talk 2294:talk 2277:talk 2263:Keep 2251:talk 2229:talk 2219:and 2195:talk 2155:Talk 2131:talk 2113:The 1994:talk 1974:talk 1966:Tarc 1947:talk 1943:Tarc 1932:talk 1915:talk 1911:Tarc 1897:talk 1889:Keep 1878:talk 1874:Tarc 1847:brew 1825:Keep 1812:talk 1800:Note 1790:Talk 1776:Note 1764:talk 1740:Keep 1729:talk 1725:Tarc 1707:- A 1696:talk 1687:Keep 1674:talk 1656:talk 1652:Tarc 1635:talk 1623:keep 1603:talk 1568:talk 1544:talk 1508:talk 1499:Arab 1457:talk 1404:talk 1379:and 1363:and 1334:talk 1317:talk 1278:talk 1260:talk 1235:talk 1227:talk 1207:talk 1175:talk 1156:talk 1132:talk 1095:talk 1076:Talk 1039:talk 1022:Talk 1006:and 985:talk 925:talk 917:here 915:and 913:here 909:Keep 892:Talk 868:talk 848:Talk 813:talk 798:Talk 774:talk 764:and 725:talk 688:that 667:talk 648:talk 632:talk 614:talk 580:Keep 569:talk 549:talk 517:talk 496:talk 447:FENS 421:news 390:logs 364:talk 360:edit 221:talk 74:talk 3198:to 3118:of 3109:or 2988:not 2814:-- 2756:of 2728:or 2554:or 1169:-- 1150:-- 941:not 678:. 461:TWL 398:– ( 319:DRV 185:csp 181:or 173:csm 141:spa 115:not 3472:) 3451:) 3357:) 3339:) 3324:) 3309:) 3293:) 3267:) 3241:) 3231:). 3210:) 3187:) 3143:: 3055:) 3037:) 3021:) 2998:) 2979:) 2965:) 2947:) 2899:) 2880:) 2863:) 2842:) 2822:) 2811:. 2798:) 2771:) 2744:) 2690:) 2645:) 2622:) 2571:) 2535:) 2509:) 2488:) 2463:) 2446:) 2415:) 2411:• 2383:) 2364:) 2346:) 2338:-- 2331:do 2310:) 2296:) 2279:) 2253:) 2231:) 2223:. 2197:) 2133:) 2058:, 2054:, 1996:) 1976:) 1949:) 1934:) 1917:) 1899:) 1880:) 1872:. 1814:) 1766:) 1731:) 1698:) 1676:) 1658:) 1650:. 1637:) 1605:) 1570:) 1546:) 1510:) 1459:) 1410:) 1406:• 1375:, 1371:, 1359:, 1336:) 1319:) 1280:) 1262:) 1237:) 1218:. 1209:) 1201:. 1177:) 1166:. 1147:. 1134:) 1126:. 1097:) 1064:. 1056:, 1041:) 1010:. 987:) 927:) 880:. 870:) 815:) 776:) 727:) 669:) 650:) 634:) 616:) 571:) 561:OR 551:) 519:) 498:) 480:TM 478:. 441:) 392:| 388:| 384:| 380:| 375:| 371:| 366:| 362:| 227:) 223:• 191:}} 179:}} 169:: 163:}} 147:}} 137:: 77:) 3468:( 3447:( 3353:( 3335:( 3320:( 3305:( 3289:( 3263:( 3259:. 3237:( 3206:( 3183:( 3172:" 3051:( 3033:( 3017:( 2994:( 2975:( 2961:( 2943:( 2895:( 2876:( 2859:( 2838:( 2818:( 2794:( 2767:( 2740:( 2686:( 2641:( 2618:( 2567:( 2531:( 2505:( 2484:( 2459:( 2442:( 2407:( 2379:( 2360:( 2342:( 2306:( 2292:( 2275:( 2249:( 2227:( 2193:( 2175:/ 2153:- 2129:( 2069:. 1992:( 1972:( 1945:( 1930:( 1913:( 1895:( 1876:( 1810:( 1788:- 1762:( 1727:( 1694:( 1672:( 1654:( 1633:( 1601:( 1566:( 1542:( 1506:( 1486:C 1484:/ 1482:T 1455:( 1436:C 1434:/ 1432:T 1402:( 1332:( 1315:( 1276:( 1258:( 1233:( 1225:( 1205:( 1173:( 1160:: 1154:( 1130:( 1093:( 1074:- 1037:( 1020:- 983:( 947:/ 923:( 907:* 890:- 866:( 846:- 811:( 796:- 772:( 768:. 751:C 749:/ 747:T 723:( 708:C 706:/ 704:T 665:( 646:( 630:( 612:( 567:( 547:( 515:( 494:( 465:) 457:· 451:· 443:· 436:· 430:· 424:· 418:· 413:( 405:( 402:) 396:) 358:( 219:( 208:. 193:. 187:| 175:| 159:| 143:| 71:(

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