560:. This is a very impressive mod, something I say as a fan of the Age of Empires series (except Online) and as someone who's played the mod. And I found out about it through Knowledge. I'd love to see it stay. However... there are zero reliable sources that have mentioned it. I've tried searching for you as I'd like to keep the article personally. However, without reliable sources, the game is not notable, and the article must be eliminated in compliance with Knowledge guidelines. I'm sorry, that's just the way things are. By the way, just because
232:
can see at the end of the page. All the other pages are independent. To be exact I count 7 sources not linking to the primary source. Also I don't quite get the hang of your last sentence, saying that existence, forums and official site are not enough to confirm notability. There are downloadable products offered on different sites, references and a notable fan scene on other Age Of
Empires sites, references on Youtube.com and much more. I wonder what else would it take?
324:. Each time an independent fan speaks about a product, the product he raises the notability of this product for the public. Forum threads and youtube videos don't do anything else than this! They confirm the product's existence, prove its relevance and increase the notability. Otherwise there'd be no reason for these things to exist. Comments don't show up if there is nothing to comment, right?
370:), and a forum post does not become reliable merely because it is posted on a discussion forum, open to the public, on an official website. There is a difference between static webpages and official blogs, which are under the editorial control of the site, and forum posts which are not editorially controlled by the site.
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wrote on this article has been trying to stay as unbiased as possible, trying to look for links that confirm the asserted pieces of information. Considering the dimension of the mod, we thought there should be enough good reasons to be and stay in the
Knowledge, but obviously people here prefer stones over medicine.
413:
I'm still shaking my head, but, whatever, it seems I really have to suit these over-rationalized laws. Laws, because "guidelines" would be an understatement regarding the practised rigidity. Knowledge really has become its own science. I'm sorry for not speaking wikipedianish, I really just look for
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The point of mentioning youtube videos was to emphasize the notability and relevance of the article's subject - which was questioned by
Cambalachero - not to call them primary sources. In fact, Youtube is a secondary source and as far as I have understood the source policy on Knowledge (and there is
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Sorry, but the first claim is complete nonsense. Out of 9 sources, there are only two forum threads (5th and 6th). All the other pages link to download pages or detailed information about the mod. Also there ARE independent secondary sources mentioned. The only primary source is ne.elpea.net, as you
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Uhm, I said I'm owner of these files, so it's pretty obvious I'm involved, right? I'm sorry for not feeling "discovered". I don't even see what's wrong with these links. Every project has a promotion section, the difference is just that this one is public and that fans help us. I think everyone who
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6 is the official website of
Ensemble Studios, so it's not "just an internet forum", same counts for 6, it's a real community that covers many aspects, the forum is just an additional platform to the site's contents. But in spite of that fact, what's the matter with "just being an internet forum"?
705:
A google search of "Age of
Empires III: The Napoleonic Era" at IGN, GameSpot, GameSpy, GameInformer, NextGen, 1UP, GameDaily, GamesRadar, and Eurogamer turned up nothing. Plenty without the quotes, but I'm sure most of those are for AoE3. Sorry, but I don't believe that this meets Knowledge's
656:
What's obvious is that wikipedia has been an excellent source of publicity for your mod and you want to keep it that way. I am sure your product is shaping up to be a great mod and am not knocking all your hard work, but you do not have a right to free advertising on this site. If reliable
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It's impossible to fulfill the wiki guidelines if sites that would count as valid sources in the gaming area do not host or report mods in the first, but only in the second or third instance. That's just my point. The mod is just not as irrelevant and unknown as you guys believe it is.
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The links to the mod's page are only there to prove that the content of the wikipedia article is not made up. If
Mercedes would come up with a new car and write something about the technical details, I guess linking to the Mercedes page would be accepted? Just wondering.
252:- Although I'd hardly call Youtube a primary source, Tilanus, I do agree that the page is already well written and if we can find more independent sources, I think it should stay. Most of the sources on the page now are created by the makers of the mod themselves.
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References 2, 5, 7, 8 and 9 are all from the official site. References 1 and 3 are mere press releases, and do not denote notability. References 4 and 6 are internet forums. The youtube videos are just recorded gameplay. It all fails the 4º item of the
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way too much to read in this letter jungle), secondary sources are somehow considered to be the best. Just having a look on google with the given keywords will bring up plenty of pages, whose huge amount underlines the notability again and again.
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Seriously, what do you expect. Napoleonic Era is one of the most anticipated mods for the game and you just have nothing better to do than questioning its notability. I really really dislike that nitpicking on wikipedia. It's just anything but
158:
773:) and even the favicon of that linked page reveal that it belongs to Gamespy. The IGN page, however, doesn't even report about mods, but it has affilitates that do. It's just that little point, I know it won't change that much for you.
763:
For example, if you press "Mods" in the menu on the
Gamespy page, you'll be directed to FilePlanet.com, which is also powered by IGN. This site then again contains mod-related files, even Napoleonic Era.
387:, primary sources (such as an official publication technical details) are definitely appropriate as sources. However, an article that has no third-party, independent, reliable sources fails notability.
754:. I'm still looking for better sources, the article however, is a lil outdated and seeing the votes it's unlikely that it will be kept. So it's most probably gonna be restarted by anyone in the future.
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All the references come from the official web site of from discussions at internet forums. There is no mention in independent secondary sources to confirm notability. Remember that this is
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an official expansion of the famed Age of
Empires game, but a mod made by random users in the internet, so existence, forums and an official site are not enough to confirm notability.
79:
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Except the references to the mod's website and reference 1, no one from the team was involved in making any of the other posts, articles or other submissions. They're
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third-party sources cover your work in the future, then maybe your mod will deserve a page here, but right now it is just not ready for prime time so to speak.
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be found through IGN and
Gamespy. The files and articles have not directly been hosted or published on the main page, but on affiliate sites of them.
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543:. If significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject cannot be established, then an article has no place on wikipedia.
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518:. With apologies to Tilanus, Cambalachero's analysis of the references to show that the article appears to fail notability is spot-on.
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Also, you can read in the article that the mod has once been rewarded by
Gamespy for a picture. The URL ( which starts with
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719:- On said forum, there's been a request for a list of sources considered 'reliable'. Here's a good place to start:
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Go ahead. If you find and include reliable sources independent of the subject, the deletion may be reconsidered.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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the subject's website, autobiographies, and press releases are not considered independent
682:- Lack of reliable sources, fails to establish notability, seems to have some sort of
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a way to keep this article alive as I'm convinced that it has a right to exist here.
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And speaking of independence... it seems that you're affiliated with the game.
797:- After looking at the evidence before me, I change my consensus to delete.
335:. Neither forum threads nor youtube videos do fit into this description.
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These are valid secondary sources if the threads have not been started
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Last question: Why are you trying so hard to destroy this article?
572:, if none are independent of the subject, it doesn't matter much.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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I need to object to one statement though: Napoleonic Era
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I would suggest reading Knowledge's notability policy (
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by those affiliated with the subject or its creator
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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434:list of video game-related deletion discussions
564:doesn't mean it gets an article, nor does it
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568:fame from Age of Empires. Even if there are
492:Note: This debate has been included in the
432:Note: This debate has been included in the
494:list of Games-related deletion discussions
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379:With regard to your Mercedes scenario,
215:, which is not used at other articles
76:Age of Empires III: The Napoleonic Era
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770:http://planetageofempires.gamespy.com
250:Weak Keep (If more sources are found)
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331:and let me even repeat this one:
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18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
381:once notability of the subject
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62:14:19, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.