499:: Shearonink (UTC) negates her own flawed arguments for deletion by contradictory statements. For example, in her first post she argues that the film "was not widely distributed." When this falsehood was refuted with information that the film was distributed on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Netflix, etc... she argues the opposite point in her second post above that being widely distributed "means nothing." And then adds that the film was distributed on DVD on Netflix, but not streaming? Seriously? A second example of the self-contradictory logic in this request is in her first post she cites a lack of reviews. Then when reviews are presented, she replies that Christianity Today's review was "two stars out of four." So the standard is always altered in favor of a confirmation bias towards deletion, rather than an internal consistency of argument with objectivity. A third example of the flawed and inconsistent logic is when her first post mentions a lack of articles from notable newspapers, when articles are cited, she says, yes but the article covers Rossi and mentions the film without focusing exclusively on the film. To any objective observer, one can see the lines are drawn then erased and redrawn. Above a false claim is made that "The Disappearance of Aimee" was the first film of Aimee Semple McPherson's life, which was a TV presentation focused solely on the dramatization of the 1927 morals trial of McPherson. Rossi's film is the first feature biographical film covering her entire life from 1912-1944.
1019:
when it is demonstrated the film meets the criteria the interpretation of the rules are modified in subsequent posts as has been mentioned before and the criteria changed. The application does seem to be slanted unfairly with a COI against Rossi and the film, by those trying to delete. Most recently 'God's
Generals' is cited as an important Pentecostal film, which has unlike Rossi's film, not screened anywhere, not been reviewed, and is a a video of a disgraced minister who was found to be sexually involved with a young male youth worker, just talking into the camera as a talking head about people like Aimee Semple McPherson, and is not a feature dramatic film anywhere near Rossi's work from any objective measure.
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article about
Italian film festivals. I am not casting aspersions upon the Sabaoth Film Festival - I just haven't seen proof that this is a major/meaningful film festival. Some festivals are meaningful and some of them are a way for promoters to take filmmakers' money (Google "film festivals scam" and you'll see what I mean.) My point is that having an award or having a screening at any single film festival does not in and of itself prove notability - anyone can put on what they call a film festival. My only concern is if this festival has received any coverage in industry press, or in any other media -
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Career
Retrospectives with preeminent actors who explore the process and profession with an audience of fellow artists. Conversations focus on personal experiences and artistic influences that inform and shape careers; discuss current and past projects; share valuable insights into the craft and industry; and preserve creative legacies." Here is a link to that event, SAG Conversations honoring the film with not just a screening, but a discussion by the filmmaker and some cast and crew taking questions from the audience of SAG union members:
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Re: "Milan
Sabaoth Film Festival" - the issue here is whether or not this particular film festival is noteworthy or notable in and of itself. There are literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of film festivals all over the world - there are 36 different ones listed at Knowledge (XXG)'s own
741:
For future posts it would be helpful if your statements asserting your claims of notability also had their references/sources posted with them when you first make these statements. You stated the movie "had a SAG screening" but neglected initially to also provide a cite as well as to fully describe
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The SAG screening was not just a screening of a film at their theater. It was chosen to be part of that years SAG Conversations for notable films and actors. From SAG website: "The
Conversations program offers free screenings followed by inspiring Q&As with leading actors and casts, as well as
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Additionally, Knowledge (XXG) rules governing deletion state clearly: The film is historically notable, as evidenced by one or more of the following: Point 3 The film was given a commercial re-release, or screened in a festival, at least five years after initial release. The screening at Milan film
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The film has a few name actors in it, such as Rance Howard, father of Ron Howard. Cast members such as Rance Howard, Kiera
Chaplin (granddaughter of Charlie Chaplin), Carl Ballantine, Richard Rossi, and the other lead Mimi Michaels who portrays Aimee Semple McPherson have their own Knowledge (XXG)
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It was reviewed in the
Moviehound Golden Retriever Movie book, in Charisma and Christianity Today leading magazines in the Christian world, and on Hollywood Jesus. Religious discrimination should not be a factor in deleting a film that is more notable than many others in Knowledge (XXG). The film
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As to the Best
Feature Nomination at the Sabaoth Film Festival...what year? any independent confirmation? Any stats on this film festival? Does Variety or Backstage or London Times or any major media or entertainment journalist report on it? (in other words, how influential is this fest...) And,
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No COI, I do follow Mr. Rossi's work and story as a native
Pittsburgher who finds it interesting as a life trajectory of someone native to my hometown. I wouldn't want to stoop to accusations of COI on the other side, but this thread does seem to set up arbitrary judgments against this film, then
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A "special SAG screening" only means that there were SAG members in the movie and that it was screened at their union's theater. It does not necessarily convey aspects of notability to have a movie "screened at SAG". SAG (then) and SAG-AFTRA (now) probably screens hundreds of movies in a year -
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Film mentioned in
Ministries today (Dec. 2005), Film Threat magazine (2006), Charisma Magazine (October, 2005), East Valley Tribune (August 27, 2005) Hollywood Reporter and Variety production listings (2004-2005), InMag (Spring, 2005), Hollywood Jesus (2005), imdb.com, ZReview, movietome.com, and
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Was distributed widely in (Partial list) Blockbuster stores, on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Netflix under new title "Sister Aimee: The Aimee Semple McPherson Story" Has been mentioned in mainstream newspapers more than other films with articles on Knowledge (XXG). It is the first feature dramatic
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It isn't up to any single editor for deletion or inclusion - the only thing that matters here is editorial consensus, what does the interested and commenting editorial community have to say regarding the film's notability and depending on Knowledge (XXG)'s guidelines for those
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it's a simple courtesy to their members. The HollywoodJesus.com review also mentions that "there are no plans as of yet for a theatrical release". How can a movie that never received a theatrical release, regardless of its good intentions, be considered notable
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This movie is not the first about Aimee Semple McPherson, that would be 1976's "The Disappearance of Aimee", a movie which starred 2 Academy Award winners - Bette Davis and Faye Dunaway - and which was directed by Michael Harvey, an Academy-Award nominated film
582:
other publications cited on reviews and links at aimeesemplemcphersonmovie.com. This is the only feature dramatic film to explore Aimee McPherson's significance to evangelism and the history of Los Angeles. To delete is to miss the larger issues of the work.
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is the first dramatic film about a woman who pioneered her own denomination and was a major Hollywood and religious figure in the 20th century in Los Angeles. The following articles in the press (partial list)mention the film: East Valley Tribune:
982:
This commenter clearly has a conflict of interest, and based on contribution history, is probably Richard Rossi, the director of the film we're discussing. If you have a COI, you should disclose it. I also don't see anywhere that says
873:
I removed your lengthy excerpts; we can read the links. These are nationally known critics? There isn't even a byline on either of those articles. Also, I have struck out your first "keep" vote above. Only one vote per user, please.
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1045:. Let me lay it out for you...there have been other notable productions about pentecostal subjects (I've corrected my mistake on God's Generals above). That clear enough? And stop with the mudslinging, it doesn't help your cause.
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The question is asked if Backstage has reported on the film. The article on the film itself has a link to a Backstage article that talks about the film and Rossi's artistic integrity in refusing money to alter the truth of his
236:(*was not widely distributed, *has not received full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics, *not historically notable , *has not received a major award for excellence in some aspect of filmmaking, etc.). Fails
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The Backstage article is about an actor (not affiliated with the Aimee Semple McPherson film), mentions Mr. Rossi in passing and has some interview bits from him but to me does not bolster claims about the film's
453:
As to Ref #1....why is that ref even in there? The article is a profile of Kathie Lee Gifford's Broadway production and contains a mere mention of the movie - it only serves to date the movie to 2006, it is not
847:
criterion of having "full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics".. This film in addition to the Christianity Today review, is reviewed here by Ted Baer at Movieguide (full length review):
949:
but maybe being the first "based on a true story"/somewhat-biographical film about a "major historical figure in Pentecostalism" doesn't mean that the project itself is necessarily notable.
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799:. Being available on Amazon is not evidence of "wide distribution", and in any case, the release wasn't accompanied by "full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics".
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of the content could possibly be merged into Rossi's article but keeping in mind Knowledge (XXG)'s guidelines for notability I remain convinced that this article should be deleted.
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816:- the "keep" proponent hasn't offered any rationale grounded in Knowledge (XXG) policies or guidelines why this article should be kept. The strongest argument, to me, seems to be
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ProfessorClaudele, just because there does not appear to be a consensus to keep this article doesn't mean that you can't merge the most significant information to
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to support a short-but-meaty paragraph over there. If you would like me to reproduce the article into your userspace to facilitate that just let me know.
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It was apparently noteworthy enough to the SAG, Screen Actors Guild to have a special screening there. (See above review at Hollywood Jesus)
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is meaningless without some context. How many downloads were there? How many DVDs were sold? How many screenings were sold-out? etc.
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oh, btw, don't try to find any info out on the Sabaoth Fest's website, it seems to possibly have been hacked - got a malware warning.
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The two reviews above are nationally known, Ted Baer writes reviews for his site Movie Guide and Chris Gore for Film Threat.
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convey notability. There are over 382,000 features listed at IMDb, over 1 million dramas, 694,485 shorts...etc. ( see
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http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/movies/2008/05/04/Rev-Rossi-back-in-news-as-Hollywood-success-story/stories/200805040255
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The film was nominated for Best Feature in Milan, Italy at the Sabaoth Film Festival. Thanks, Professor Claudele.
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http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/get_out/finding-sister-aimee/article_22e6445a-2158-54db-a716-d79178c7df9d.html
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68:. The critical reception of a film has no bearing on its notability, or else we wouldn't have an article for
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film about some particular segment of social history does not in and of itself make a film notable.
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999:(it was more likely one of the staff). Both may as well have been written by anonymous authors. ~
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The Pgh Post-Gazette is an article mostly about the producer and not about the film itself.
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criterion of having "full-length reviews by two or more nationally known critics". ~
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As to the Christianity Today review...that was a 2-star review out of a possible 4.
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the Christianity Today review...that was a 2-star review out of a possible 4
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Re: the celebritypictures linkage... It's a photo. With little context.
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As to Amazon...Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #135,990 in Movies & TV.
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As to Netflix....only available on DVD, not available for streaming.
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and asserting "religious discrimination" does not help to bolster
897:. There have been other notable films about Pentacostalism, like
662:- Please sign your posts on Knowledge (XXG)'s talkpages. At the
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as to notability. The film's coverage in media mentioned above -
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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pages. So in addition to other reasons, it's at IMDb, it's got
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festival Saboath was in 2011, 5 years after its release. Link:
52:. Jeez, what a mess. The sole registered user arguing to keep,
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https://www.movieguide.org/reviews/aimee-semple-mcpherson.html
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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http://filmthreat.com/uncategorized/aimee-semple-mcpherson/
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article on a major historical figure in Pentecostalism.
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IMDb is not considered a reliable source since it is
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http://celebritypictures.wiki/celebrity/744302/748408
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
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of your post is where you put the four tildes -: -->
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other than its own press releases or its own website
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774:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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928:: SORRY, MY mistake, I looked at the BOOKS (which
431:Having passing mentions in various articles means
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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771:Hopefully we can get more outside participation?
280:does not meet notability guidelines for films.
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256:Note: This debate has been included in the
79:Aimee_Semple_McPherson#Works_about_McPherson
682:Being listed at IMDb in and of itself does
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563:Anyway, my thoughts are still for Delete.
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258:list of Film-related deletion discussions
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60:. However, neither does the nominator,
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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99:Aimee Semple McPherson (film)
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240:(no significant coverage).
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987:wrote
926:UPDATE
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