358:- The captions in the article, while they surely could be expanded, made it reasonably clear that the various states in the region were not all called Romania. "Romania" and "Romanian" are one of those ambiguous terms that can mean both a citizen of a state of Romania, and a speaker of a Balkan Romance language. We don't present the history of some other countries like that because no one has written those articles yet. A category would be a poor substitute for this page; shifting borders would be harder to track. (FWIW, countries with less complicated histories can present similar data differently; look at
343:: As said above in various ways, one of the problems is that a state called Romania has only existed since the 19th century, not the 1st century BC. What exactly was going on during those two millennia is not straightforward enough to be able to be conveyed by just a series of maps. (Otherwise, why don't we present the histories of all countries like that?)
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In the middle ages, the East-Roman Empire was called
Romania, thus, the title is not hisorically correct. If the title was eg. Historical states on the terriory of present-day Romania, there would be no problem with it. But if these maps were included in Category:Maps of the history of Romania, there
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Apart from being practically useless (the images can be used later even if the article gets deleted now), this article also runs a mild risk of becoming a POV fork at some time, since it allows presenting historical states without providing enough context on what they do or do not have in common with
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Indirectly, it does have somewhat to do with ethnic politics – most ethnic groups over here are trying to prove in various ways that "they were first" in the neighbourhood where they currently are and even its surroundings. In this sense, the situation is not analogous to the US, where a consensus
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article. This standpoint is now more or less proven by the facts that (1) there have been 4 edits to this article since the previous AfD, none of which was in any way substantial, and (2) the only reference to this article (from the article space) remains a single link in the "See also" section of
323:. Very simply, this article contains information that is more easily presented visually than in text. This is another example. I did not check each map, but it seems to me there are few if any fair use images there; that is not a reason not to have a gallery of these maps. Perhaps a
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per KissL, Grandmasterka, and DaGizza. To which I will add: not only is that article a POV fork of no relevant use, but it is also not about what its title says it is about (the borders of Dacia and medieval
Transylvania are certainly not the borders "of Romania", and wikipedia catalogs
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resulted in no consensus more than half a year ago. Many users voted "keep" in the hope that the article would shortly be improved. I still believe this is not possible, since whatever encyclopedic content could be included in this article belongs rather to the
397:, its just maps and maps. Well, my opinion on this article being kept has changed. Since nothing has been done since June 2006, this article does not deserve to be kept. As for the maps, they can be in a category and I don't see why its useful.
493:. WP articles are not galleries. Nor should they be. The function of pictures is to illustrate articles and not to be articles by themselves. While deleting the articles, keep images of course and use them in proper articles with
199:. As I said before, these pictures would be better served in the history of Romania article itself, if anywhere. That article is better than it was the first time around, but could still use more pictures.
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Romanian history. It needs clean-up, but that's not a good enough reason to delete it. It also needs more text, but maps are a very good way to refer information. --
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I believe all objections are about the un-wikiness of the article, not about its current state. When something is absurd, you don't make it better by expanding it.
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exists on historiography (unless I'm badly mistaken). However, if we were talking about an article titled "Border history of the US" containing just the maps in
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663:. Even if additional text were to be added, giving the images narrative support, the material would still be better placed in individual articles such as
533:- on the one hand, this is not the border history "of Romania", but rather goes back much farther. On the other hand, given the existence of articles like
421:- Border History is not a good way to organise this; it'd make more sense split up, the maps put into the main article or into articles about each period.
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453:- Knowledge (XXG) is not a mere collection of images, and I have seen no indication that the "article" in question will be otherwise.
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series being the most natural candidate. A commons entry is also a solution to have all these maps handy in one place. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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notable topic, needs expanding (but how many articles in need of expansion are there and are never deleted?).
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as unencyclopaedic at present. However, I will change my vote if the cleanup is carried out satisfactorily.
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with some captions, my opinion would still be that it is not (and has no hope of becoming) encyclopedic.
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modern states, unlike other articles containing sufficient amounts of prose (such as the well-written
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is not a rational for deletion, I see none other presented. Is this nomination a joke or something?
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all details, is better to have a separate article and in the main article to have a link to it.--
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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I've posted a short message to the talk pages of all users who took part in the first AfD.
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This article is merely a collection of maps that already appear in the satisfactory
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as suggested above. Certainly the article should not remain here.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to something more precisely descriptive of the contents, like
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539:Territorial evolution of the United States
667:(which indeed has one of these images).
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609:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
374:Image:USA Territorial Growth small.gif
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