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would be needed to determine if they can be put together or deserve to remain separate--or even just ignored. I should note that having looked at many AfDs for medieval
Japanese history, my sense is that sources on the net are often insufficient, since apart from government sites I cited above (usually related to the local government tourist bureau), most sites in English and Japanese are run by fans and are thus not RS. Since there is this systemic bias, paper sources need to be consulted.
245:
208:. However, this is the only mention that either of us can find anywhere on the net. The article's content is copied entirely from that one source, and hence is not notable anyway, and quite likely a hoax (this is disputed) (noting that the source states many of the sections are "Modified from the Knowledge article". Article is not notable, with no reliable sources. Thanks,
646:, etc. Some of the above sources are blogs (I just took what came up first in Google), but some are government sites and publications (the first one is from the official magazine of the Kobe City government; the last one is from Kobe's Higashinada Ward Office). Looking at these sources, it seems that that the battle at Uchidehama (
850:
bet that the local library in Mikage has some materials on what specifically happened in Mikage (and
Otomezuka, which is also mentioned and is less than a mile from Mikage). But this is not something I'm going to be able to do in a hurry, so if the page could be shifted to my userspace I will work on it when I can.
457:
If in doubt don't throw it out. I don't believe this article is a hoax. It isn't nearly conspicuous or flamboyant enough. It is also notable given the topic. I would support research into the matter, the addition of sources and the expansion of the article. Failing this it should be retained to give
917:
The merger does make a lot of sense. The only problem is that we don't seem to have a target article, to which the article is merged, that covers the topic in a broader context. Clearly, what is needed is more work (on articles like this), citing sources and plainly more writing, and I don't think
849:
up on his offer. Higashinada Ward is in eastern Kobe, where modern Mikage is located. For those wondering, Uchide is about 5 kilometres away in the neighbouring city of Ashiya. Even if general history books treat them as one and the same (or has confused the two over the centuries), I'm willing to
509:
No coverage as far as I can tell in any reliable sources. If anyone actually finds significant coverage, by finding appropriate
Japanese sources, the article can be recreated, but as it stands now there is no evidence I see to suggest the battle ever took place. And by the way, 'If in doubt don't
710:
There are apparently two "Battles of
Uchidehama", with the English wiki only introducing the one in 1582 and the Japanese wiki only introducing the one in 1351. Many of the sources I found treat the two battles as a pair (as in "...in the battles of Uchidehama and Mikagehama"), but more research
479:, this had no long lasting effect that I can ascertain, and it hasn't had coverage (at least in English, and I presume that if it was notable there would be, as there are no English sources, I suspect and (I may be wrong here) that TakuyaMurata has checked for Japanese sources).
483:
that may or may not be notable, keeping it after 11 years has found no sources gives a strong indication of a lack of notability. In addition, this uses material from the source which is against the terms, and as such should not be used anyway.
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Japanese
Knowledge does have at least two articles on battles taking place in 1351. My guess is the article title might be misleading (there is more standard name for the battle). Also, remember Japanese Knowledge is hardly comprehensive. --
761:: it might be worth someone having it moved to their userspace until it has enough sourcing to be moved back to mainspace. If someone wants to do that, and it ends up being deleted, I'll be happy to restore it and move it for them. ···
899:-- a one line stub with no citation is pretty useless. Assuming this is not a HOAX, the appropriate course is to convert it to a redirect, probably to the struggle of which it was part. Sorry, I do not know much Japanese history.
614:"... des Kaisers Go-Murakami (Süd-Dynastie) über, schlug Taka-uji 1351 bei Mikagehama (Settsu) und unterlag erst 1352 bei dem hier erwähnten Kampf auf dem Satta-yama, wo er gefangengenommen und später mit Gift ermordet wurde." --
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We don't lack sources proving it was real. I have provided several from
Japanese government institutions. That is no longer a question in this debate. The only question that remains is whether it is notable.
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300:
1351 — Tadayoshi joins
Southern Court, southern army takes Kyoto; truce, Takauji returns to Kyoto; Tadayoshi and Takauji reconciled; Kō no Moronao and Kō no Moroyasu are exiled". Thanks,
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with no prejudice to recreate if we can find sources that demonstrate this is notable. We lack sources proving it is real. However, every clash between armed groups is not notable.
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unless explicit confirmation in a reliable source can be found. I can't read the
Japanese sources, but the "Encyclopedia of Japanese History" can't be considered a
588:
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You (we) have to look deeper than that; for instance, Japanese print sources in libraries (probably in Japan). This is not s type of a topic Google is good at. --
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I don't think this is really a hoax. Maybe the article title needs to be changed. It is true there were several battles around 1351 between
Ashikaga and
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650:) was part of a series of battles that includes Mikagehama. Perhaps a trip to a good reference library would help confirm this.
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611:: We may decide to delete for lack of sourcing, but it doesn't scream out "hoax" to me. Potential source? 1973 in German
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Ping me when the discussion is closed and I can do that (or the closing admin can do it...either way will work). ···
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for the background.) The sourcing should be improved for sure. But the deletion? I don't think so. --
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Hoaxes aren't necessarily massively obvious. I would be interested to hear how this is notable, per
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Just judging from
Japanese sources on the net, one would be hard pressed to argue this was a hoax:
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56:, if someone wants me to draftify (?) this so it can go through AFC at least please let me know.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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290:: no, he seems a bit busy about 70km away in Kyoto (quote below from his article}: "
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That's a different battle than the one referenced (took place 200 years later).--
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263:, we can't confirm it. I found Openhistory used as a source for 66 WP pages,
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throw it out' is about as far from Knowledge policy as you can get.
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Nothing about this battle even seems to appear in the article for
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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There are 0 reliable sources for any battle at Mikagehama.
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Knowledge is not an indiscriminate store of information
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Surprised that the article existed for so many years.
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someone else an opportunity to improve it. Thank you
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
949:). No further edits should be made to this page.
589:list of Military-related deletion discussions
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587:Note: This debate has been included in the
569:list of History-related deletion discussions
567:Note: This debate has been included in the
547:Note: This debate has been included in the
527:Note: This debate has been included in the
664:Thanks for finding those. Perhaps merge to
549:list of Events-related deletion discussions
425:Odd there is no page on the Japanese wiki.
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529:list of Japan-related deletion discussions
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266:so we may have some more work to do! : -->
918:the deletion is a constructive step. --
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696:Sorry, I should have noticed that.
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355:You mean "English sources"? --
297:1351–1358 — Struggle for Kyoto.
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
201:Excellent detective work from
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255:have happened, but without a
369:Sources via English Google.
251:That's what I found too. It
205:found the original source,
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938:Please do not modify it.
52:. Erring on the side of
32:Please do not modify it.
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165:free images
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684:Cckerberos
668:? Thanks,
943:talk page
830:Noteswork
811:Michitaro
713:Michitaro
652:Michitaro
648:ja:打出浜の戦い
593:• Gene93k
573:• Gene93k
553:• Gene93k
533:• Gene93k
37:talk page
945:or in a
847:Nihonjoe
617:Milowent
477:WP:EVENT
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124:View log
39:or in a
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609:Comment
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473:Trout71
460:Trout71
171:WP refs
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92:history
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792:Delete
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143:Google
101:delete
50:delete
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427:Wgolf
323:(see
288:Wgolf
267::-/
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229:Wgolf
186:JSTOR
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118:views
110:watch
106:links
16:<
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122:– (
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