1773:
every minor geographical feature. I can't see why our coverage of
Filipino geography should be any less substantive. But I respect that others might disagree with that logic (which doesn't reflect on their views with regard to the Philippines generally) and so might form a different opinion here. If previous AFDs have concluded that such geographical features should be deleted, then I believe contrary to consensus in those instances (just as you may well do here).
1713:"always" would be the weaker argument. The "evidence" is that it is recognised and populated, that evidence "typically" being considered sufficient. Is there any suggestion any of these subjects are unrecognised or unpopulated? For what its worth, your suggestion that these should have been dealt with separately is (I think) spot on. The anomaly outside the "typical" is far more likely to be found that way.
1010:- a couple of things. According to our article there are 42,028 such administrative districts, the smallest in the Philippines, though each would seen to have an elected council. These are, effectively, suburbs from the looks of it and given that they are officially gazetted and defined, have elected representatives and are inhabited, they would appear to pass
1679:" is a really weak reason to keep an article because the guideline only says that such places are "typically considered notable" which is different from "always considered notable". As such, there should be additional supporting evidence that the article's topic would be considered typically notable. Lacking such evidence, we default back to the basic
1557:
does not depend on a single person's opinion. Besides, many people forget what barangay they are residing in, but they do know about the chapel down the street, or of stories about the old dilapidated house where somebody rich used to live. It is precisely because of what people know and have decided
1526:
for both natural features such as landforms and artificial features such as villages (barangays) or other settlements, which IMO are far more notable than your dilapidated house of so-and-so, or your regular chapel building of Saint this and that. We need more geography-related articles on the Phils,
1829:
We could say the same about a number of our special notability guidelines. I don't hold out much hope that they would each become featured articles (that'd be great, but I'm a realist) and some will be less valuable than others. But then there are a number of
Australian 500-person micro-suburbs that
1576:
By acknowledging this definition of a gazetteer and knowing that this could mean either of the two formats, means either way is acceptable to
Knowledge (XXG). And either format can be used in the Wikifunction as a gazetteer as per the FivePillars. This is not a question of which definition or format
1847:
Re: numbered barangays: I am open to merging these tiny villages (area-wise) with their original barrios or districts but that's it. All the rest of the barangays with proper names are big enough and stable enough to have their own articles. For example: Barangay 829 Zone 90 (Manila) would redirect
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is enough for me, but then I generally believe that pretty much all populated, officially recognised places should have articles here. Coverage of geography is (I believe) a core responsibility of an encyclopaedia. I'm from
Australia and Knowledge (XXG) has coverage of almost every small suburb and
1712:
from previous discussions. Such guidelines will never say "always" because such things are not inherently notable. But the community has determined that recognised, populated places are generally notable and so are typically kept. The argument that such consensus might be dismissed because it's not
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that come together for form these. We certainly don't need both. But these would also seem to function as worthwhile redirect and merge targets for anything "smaller" like elected councils, schools, hospitals, etc. Beyond that, the nominator is arguing for redirects, not deletion so I'm not certain
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Which is precisely my original point. Knowledge (XXG) being a gazetteer can either have (option 1) individual articles on a set of places, or (option 2) have a single article listing those places. Thus, the gazetteer argument does not apply to the current discussion because the nominator is saying
1345:
suggests that barangays are inherently notable because they are populated and legal entities and with elected officials. But we don't confer inherent notableness to gated communities, suburbs, city/town districts, and quarters, even if all are populated, many are legally recognized, and some have
1044:
Unfortunately those (or most of the) articles do not have a source. (If it has, only a single source and dependent on the government page). It is better to transfer the contents/info per barangay to the article of a bigger area (in this case, transfer the (sourced) content of each
Barangay to the
1708:-based argument. It discusses the likelihood (based on past experience) that an article will be deleted. That doesn't mean that anomalies might exist where a named, recognised and populated area might be deleted if it duplicates something or is recognised but not "officially". GEOLAND represents
1562:. More than 99% of houses in the Philippines are therefore not notable but a few ancestral houses and residences are. In the same way, most barangays are not notable because you can't find non-trivial scholarly research about the barangay apart from its census information and elected officials. —
1499:
instead of having individual articles per barangay, then I am still fulfilling the functions of a gazetteer. Your gazetteer argument is therefore irrelevant to the current discussion because the nominator is not saying that we should remove mention of
Calamba's barangays, only that individual
1610:
What do you mean the gazetteer argument does not apply? It is what
Knowledge (XXG) is. You can have your wiktionary in a list format or the wiktionary in separate entries. WP can be both. Period. And looking at the votes here, there is obvious preference for the separate entries type of
1863:
Good. At least you have admitted that not all barangays without question deserve their own articles and might be better merged into collective articles. But purely numeric barangays are not the only problem. We have barangays with proper names but suffixed with numbers too like in
1494:
I agree that
Knowledge (XXG) also has a gazetteer function. However, a gazetteer is simply a reference work that contains systematic information about places. It does not say that these places should have individual articles in an encyclopedia. If I have a list article like
1071:, for example, some of which have only been established in recent years, and are therefore stub articles reliant on just gov't sources. BUT we keep them anyway because they are legally recognized places with elected officials. Just like these barangays that have their own
1868:
where we have barangays like
Panapaan 1 to Panapaan 8, and Talaba 1 to Talaba 7. I don't think these barangays deserve individual article and we can debate on whether the Talaba barangays can be merged into a "Talaba, Bacoor" article or just simply discussed under
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I understand that you think that all barangays, being legally-recognized and populated places, deserve their own articles, but as a person who grew up in the
Philippines, I really cannot fathom how one can create an article that can eventually become
1455:
barangays or any local government units for that matter are just like any geographic feature and are therefore inherently notable. Basically anything that shows up on the maps is worth having a wikiarticle on, even the most unfamiliar landforms like
1734:. Well, while GEOLAND might reflect that such places are typically considered notable in many previous discussions, if we narrow the set of discussions to those that specifically discuss notability of barangays, then as I already explained above,
1045:
page of Calamba, Laguna). Instead of creating all articles per barangay, which I think is unnecessary, it is best to increase depth of the articles. (Unless the barangay is highly important and has a lot of available reliable references). --
1735:
1378:
1250:" is not enough. You need to argue why these particular articles meet the "typically considered notable" guideline. In my !vote below, I provide reasons why barangays are not inherently (i.e., "not typically") notable despite what
1527:
if you look up the available articles there's not too many compared to buildings or structures, or Philippine entertainment-related articles. And you AfD'ing/merging these settlements, islands, etc is not helping at all. ;)--
1545:. There's simply no requirement that each place has its own article when included in Knowledge (XXG). The place can simply be included in a table or list in a Knowledge (XXG) article and it is still arguably a gazetteer.
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is all about. Somebody, other than the owner of the house, has noted the house/chapel and that it is worthy of research. If you feel barangays are more notable, then that is simply your opinion, but fortunately,
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To provide more context to this AfD, the question of notability for barangays has been a frequent topic in the Philippine Knowledge (XXG) community and has been discussed since almost 10 years now. Here's a
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I don't know about you either, but gazetteers come in many different formats. There are those that are like dictionaries and databases, as in your examples. There are also those that come in
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in the article. Hence, there is no adequate evidence on the subject's notability. Either transfer the contents (since the article is a stub) to the page of Calamba, Laguna or redirect to
1346:
elected officials. Yes, barangays are officially local governments in the Philippines, but many barangays are actually no more than one or two city blocks. For example, the capital city
1019:
these actually qualify for AFD. But mass redirect proposals have been accepted here in the past for the sake of avoiding unnecessary article-by-article bureaucracy. But I'm leaning
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that lists various barangay AfD outcomes and as you can see, it's a mixed bag of keeps, merges, deletes, and no consensus outcomes. There used to be a separate article about
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along with the other new barangays created between Taft Ave and Roxas Blvd north of Edsa and south of Arnaiz Ave. And Barangay 112 in Caloocan can be merged to
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Yeah, you've selectively quoted from that guideline in a way that supports your argument. But a full reading of the guideline shows your argument has no basis:
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did not exist, there would be hardly any question that these tiny barangays are not notable for lack of non-trivial coverage from reliable sources. —
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1852:(Paco being the original village before these mass partitions took place). And Barangay 86 in Pasay could be created under its original barrio of
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should be used. The guidelines only states we can use WP in this function, so we can use and maintain both individual and list articles. ;)--
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1518:. So if Knowledge (XXG) is a geographical dictionary, isn't it just logical to have all geographic features in separate entries? Sorta how
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policy, if I may add) suggests that Knowledge (XXG) ought to have individual articles on all of these 897 barangays. For another example,
1185:. Barangays hardly received significant coverage (just like the listed barangays) with the exception of a very few barangay like Alabang--
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A geographical area, location, place or other object is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources
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As for cultural heritage houses and chapels, they pass notability because they have been the subject of reliable sources, which is what
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didn't exist, there would hardly be any question that most if not all Manila barangays are not notable. But the guideline (which is
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1860:. Fortunately, we don't have articles on these numbered barangays, and we will not encourage them.--02:20, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
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guideline that requires reliable sources, which the nominator argues that there is hardly any for the currently AfD. —
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Populated, legally-recognized places are typically considered notable, even if their population is very low.
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Populated, legally-recognized places are typically considered notable, even if their population is very low.
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because my tendency is to say that all of Calamba's barangays are not inherently notable as I argue above.
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But I think the articles needs individual AfDs in order to determine actual notability per barangay. —
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No indication of importance for the place. It is a smaller entity/land under Calamba City. There are
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1464:. As long as they are verifiable, we keep them in wikipedia cos WP is like a gazetteer as per
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as shown in OpenStreetMap; it is approximately 1 hectare in size and covers just 1 city block.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The guideline says "typically", which is a far cry from "always". So a simple !vote of "per
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Good thing, our editors use their heads when creating such articles, without separating
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has a name, we'll keep each and every one of them. A gazetteer thats what WP is, IMHO.--
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be created instead. In the intervening years, even that list article was redirected to
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and you'll know what I mean. Or shall we also redirect those municipalities to just
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info stripped, but that's not a question for AFD, and I might as well do it now.
1934:. Besides, it's much easier to add sources on a list versus individual stubs. --
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has 897 barangays all with numeric names like "Barangay 1" and "Barangay 2". If
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1014:. The caveat there would be if we already have articles for each of the smaller
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I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reasons above:
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I don't know about you, but my understanding of a gazetteer is that of a
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It has been my long-time philosophy in Knowledge (XXG) that majority of
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that barangays are typically notable. Articles on barangays have been
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Many of our municipality articles are undersourced also, like those
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Category:Lists of barangays in Philippine cities and municipalities
1283:. The particular article I landed on will need all the promotional/
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And you're absolutely entitled to that view, as is the nominator.
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in this AfD since it is notable enough to have its own article. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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that the information about the barangays should be merged into
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we have articles for. Can't be any less valuable than those!
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It seems there are plenty of !votes that only say "Keep per
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is enough reason to keep a separate barangay article. —
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has an article you see, and if every mountain of the
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43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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1558:is worthy of writing on that forms the basis of
1389:, but a discussion resulted in a consensus that
223:list of Philippines-related deletion discussions
1362:has 201 barangays, also all named numerically.
1337:in the Philippines do not deserve articles per
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1364:Here is the boundary of Barangay 86 in Pasay
260:Note: This debate has been included in the
221:Note: This debate has been included in the
1312:given only the nominator is still arguing.
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262:list of Asia-related deletion discussions
1065:Category:Municipalities of Lanao del Sur
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1069:Category:Municipalities of Maguindanao
1081:Shariff Saydona Mustapha, Maguindanao
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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1996:, per above including wp:GEOLAND. --
1524:Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names
1497:List of barangays in Zamboanga City
1675:As I said above, just saying "per
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1977:and other reasons stated above.--
1401:—it has since been redirected to
1795:on really tiny barangays like
1225:Not much more to say, really.
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1893:North and South Forbes Park
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1671:". But the guideline says:
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1500:articles are not needed. —
1478:Sierra Madre (Philippines)
1474:Cordillera Central (Luzon)
1399:Barangays of Barugo, Leyte
1308:. This may be approaching
1397:. The same happened with
1379:There is an outdated page
2023:Please do not modify it.
1470:Unnamed volcano (Ibugos)
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1460:or unknown rivers like
1391:Barangays in Cebu City
1331:or a new list article.
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1930:there's precedent in
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1139:as suggested above.
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1732:WP:OUTCOMES
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1648:WP: GEOLAND
1289:LouiseS1979
1089:Maguindanao
857:Sirang Lupa
161:free images
1975:WP:GEOLAND
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199:no sources
2028:talk page
1873:itself. —
1436:Canlubang
1395:Cebu City
1387:Cebu City
1335:barangays
1327:Merge to
37:talk page
2030:or in a
1994:Keep all
1971:Keep all
1946:Keep all
1937:Lenticel
1897:RioHondo
1809:Caloocan
1793:featured
1665:Comment.
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1341:. Sure,
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1097:RioHondo
1021:keep all
120:View log
76:Barandal
68:Barandal
50:keep all
39:or in a
1748:deleted
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1207:says.--
1008:Comment
966:protect
961:history
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167:WP refs
155:scholar
93:protect
88:history
1984:(talk)
1895:. ;)--
1871:Bacoor
1866:Bacoor
1746:, and
1744:merged
1704:is an
1466:WP:GAZ
1373:and a
1348:Manila
1109:Yeah,
1079:. See
970:delete
924:delete
878:delete
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139:Google
97:delete
1838:lwart
1801:Pasay
1781:lwart
1721:lwart
1453:AFAIK
1360:Pasay
1233:lwart
1147:lwart
1121:lwart
1031:lwart
1016:purok
987:views
979:watch
975:links
941:views
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883:links
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182:JSTOR
143:books
127:Stats
114:views
106:watch
102:links
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1962:talk
1952:and
1948:per
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