Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Billy Shreve - Knowledge (XXG)

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1312:. I was surprised to learn after writing my opinion on Billy Shreve that this nomination also includes Bud Otis. I disagree that the nomination of Otis should piggyback on that of Shreve. These are different politicians with different considerations. A closing nominator has said this before me, however that closure was overruled in a deletion review and the AfD was reopened. I have not delved into every claim made in the review and accept that reviewer was entitled to make a decision. Now that s/he did, I'm adding my position on the linkage and the Bud Otis article here. I still want to encourage a separate discussion. The suggestion seems to be that this should be done on the same AfD page?! 844:, but neither of these gentlemen have done anything notable apart from serving on a local elections board, and the sourcing shows it. Due to the odd nature of this AfD (I thought it was just for Shreve) I have no problems with any sort of procedural keep, but I strongly believe neither of these articles are fit for Knowledge (XXG) based on the available sourcing, and are merely local political cruft. 727:
notable than everybody else who serves on a county government in the United States. There is no automatic entitlement for politicians at this level of government to have Knowledge (XXG) articles, so listing them for deletion does not represent "genocide". If "local media coverage exists and therefore
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An article with a fair or better chance of standing on its own merits should not be bundled— nominate it separately. For the avoidance of doubt, bundling should not be used to form consensus around policy decisions such as "should wikipedia include this type of article". Bundling AfDs should be used
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This discussion and several recent and present discussions persuades me, as it has persuaded several editors commenting above, that too many editors are applying WP:NPOL without taking a close look at individual careers and available sources. Except with new pages on candidates actively running for
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is not a major publication. The other two come from the Washington Post. Neither article is about Shreve. The first one is about a vote on a Scientology rehab, it has exactly one quote from Shreve. The second one is about the same rehab center and says Shreve was the only member to vote in favor of
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Okay, so why don't you explain to me how these two men have done anything of significantly different notability over their careers because I don't see it. The only elected position either held was on the same county council (or its predecessor) and I don't see anything even remotely notable about
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You and I have been involved in recent months in a large number of deletion discussions regarding county- state- and town-level politicians, and we both know that notability varies according to the vagaries of individual careers, even when, as you say above, "They hold the same damn position."
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Honestly, E.M. Gregory kinda is beating a dead horse with regards to the discussion being illegitimate. But you probably should have nominated Bud Otis seperately, since the notability of one may not mean the notability of the other. Just something to keep in mind going forward.
374:. Individual has received significant and ongoing coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Significant: article has 54 citations, of which 51 are independent reliable sources. Ongoing: citations are from the last 12 years. ~ 781:. This article is source-bombed, but I cannot access many of them because they are behind a password-protected site. What is important: even though there are 55 sources currently on the page, where are the ones that help him become notable? 1439:- Completely uncalled for. You're accusing me of badgering people? Take a look at how many comments E.M. Gregory has above, starting with the comments he felt he needed to insert out of order at the top of the discussion.-- 714:
if the sourcing expands far enough beyond the purely local to mark them out as a special case over and above most other county councillors. The sourcing in these articles is not doing that, however — they're referenced
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They have had different lives, different careers, and have gotten different amounts of media coverage. Moreover, editors commenting below have written as though addressing the notability of a single individual.
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Since you just admitted that you didn't even look at the other one, then I guess your keep vote for the second article doesn't count then. How many other articles have you voted keep on without even looking at
840:, and the best source is only an editorial. My analogy for these is similar to game coverage a really good high school basketball player: there will be lots of local coverage, and some of it may appear to pass 578:, long and significant career, article is already pretty well sourced and my brief exploration of his career brought up lots more material in WP:RS that can be added to improve the article.(I added a little) 540:
an invalid source for notability, as some here do. The coverage of this politician in this daily newspaper is nothing short of impressive. There are other sources. For example, I just added an item from the
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requires in-depth coverage though. The sources here are really poor because they are mostly about something other than the subject, but happen to have a breif mention or a few quotes from him.--
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he is a member of a county council and the coverage just does not rise to the level to show that he is fully notable. Local coverage can be found on any politician, we need more than that.
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I just noticed multiple people were nominated in this AfD. I stand by my delete for Shreve and would also like to note Bud Otis, in spite of a number of sources on his page, also fails
1161:. The article on my watchlist seems to be well-sourced, and it meets "importance" and GNG criteria. I am not checking the other one. Why are these bundled? Keep them both then. -- 1402:
He does not have coverage in the New York Times, he just has a couple quotes. The article is not about him. Neithier is the Washingtonian article, it just mentions him a few times.--
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I urge that this discussion be aborted. Nom has brought two individual politicians to a single discussion, but editors, (except Bearcat and me,) are discussing it in the singular.
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is allowed so stop acting like I'm breaking the rules or something, just to derail the discussion. And if they somehow didn't know, they certainly do now with you bludgeoning.--
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for Otis, who is NN as a politician, but might be notable as a publisher. The issue is not whether the info is verifiable, but whether the people are notable.
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in which the first three paragraphs focus on Shreve. The entire article is focused on a project educating against drugs, in which Shreve was the driving force.
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A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists.
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Otis is certainly notable, while Shreve is arguably so but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. The two should not be nominated on the same page. ~
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enough to get a county councillor into Knowledge (XXG) in and of itself, if the article doesn't demonstrate a credible reason why their notability extends
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took a deep dive into his pro-development politics in a group with two other pro-development politicians who held a majority on the county council.
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Another self-proclaimed HEYMANN.Does anyone still take these seriously? President of a small publishing company is not notable.--
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local political minutiae, and the ones I can access - the Washington Post ones - he's only mentioned once or twice. Keep in mind
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Shreve who has done nothing notable apart from be a county politician (NN) and a politician's campaign manager (NN).
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Yet another problem with this awkward double nomination is that lists relevant to Otis may not be relevant to Shreve.
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office, I recommend tagging pages and leaving the tag in place for a year before taking politicians to AfD.
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Do you have to badger everyone who votes keep? Clearly he has a different conception of INDEPTH and GNG. ~
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Problematic decision to combine deletion of two individual politicians, each with a with unique career.
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withdrawing, discussion is illegitimate because it conflates the careers of two separate individuals.
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only for clear-cut deletion discussions based on existing policy. If you're unsure, don't bundle it.
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does it say the sources have to be "major." I'd say 54 sources is more than enough to get it over
52:. The double-nomination confused matters, but there is a rough consensus to keep both articles. – 1299: 1257: 1089: 886: 862: 845: 810: 684: 519: 634: 422:. Ample, robust souring from national publications.22:20, 23 May 2018 (UTC)(Comment unsigned by 1199: 1166: 761: 85: 58: 29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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I strongly disagree - this article is a clear example of a local politician who doesn't pass
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For my own edification, would you mind pointing out a couple articles you think pass WP:GNG?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Spent a couple of decades working for a major Christian deniminaiton, off to Russia after
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They hold the same damn position. And trust me your behavior is even more problematic.--
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Shreve. Page has INDEPTH coverage of his career, mostly locally sourced, but including
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and by his reliably sourced political career before he was elected county commissioner.
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to exist for county councillors, and not to any strong evidence that either of them is
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I try to give attention appropriate to the quality of the deletion nomination. :) --
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We're probably looking at the same articles, just draw different conclusions.
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as a missionary and opened churches. Stuff like that. It's er, on the page.
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Obviously, my mistake is giving too much attention to a low-quality vote.--
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two sources out of the 55 presented which could satisfy that requirement.
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By my count 49 of those citations are from the same local newspaper. The
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their lives before that. Your objection comes down to nothing more than
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Do not fall for E.M.Gregory's wikilawyers, the nomination complies with
418:. Please stop the genocide of local politican's entries. Subject passes 1124:
So he's a religious man. His positions were not notable. I question if
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is equally notable by the same standard, because local media coverage
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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should even exist, because at a quick glance, it does not meet
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Anyone who is able to read knows there are two articles and
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is passed" is enough for these two county councillors, then
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I'm not, I honestly thought this AfD was just for Shreve.
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I am seeing enough reliable coverage to meet WP:GNG. --
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --
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What do either of these have to do with Christianity?
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Plus 1196:Doncram 1180:them?-- 1163:Doncram 838:WP:MILL 830:Comment 799:WP:NPOL 795:WP:MILL 779:WP:NPOL 758:Bearcat 708:WP:NPOL 658:Comment 240:protect 235:history 169:WP refs 157:scholar 95:protect 90:history 1441:Rusf10 1404:Rusf10 1357:Rusf10 1314:gidonb 1300:(talk) 1287:WP:NAC 1250:Delete 1210:Rusf10 1182:Rusf10 1134:Rusf10 1130:WP:ORG 981:Rusf10 938:Rusf10 873:Rusf10 842:WP:GNG 834:WP:GNG 775:WP:GNG 771:Delete 754:beyond 742:always 730:WP:GNG 704:Delete 681:WP:GNG 639:Rusf10 612:WP:GNG 549:gidonb 506:gidonb 492:Rusf10 488:WP:GNG 470:gidonb 466:WP:GNG 443:Delete 420:WP:GNG 399:Rusf10 287:Rusf10 244:delete 205:Rusf10 199:Fails 141:Google 99:delete 734:every 608:WP:RS 261:views 253:watch 249:links 184:JSTOR 145:books 129:Stats 116:views 108:watch 104:links 16:< 1459:EDDY 1445:talk 1421:EDDY 1408:talk 1390:talk 1374:Keep 1361:talk 1343:talk 1327:Keep 1318:talk 1289:per 1262:talk 1238:EDDY 1231:Keep 1214:talk 1200:talk 1186:talk 1167:talk 1159:Keep 1138:talk 1116:talk 1095:talk 1078:talk 1061:talk 1040:talk 1005:talk 985:talk 964:talk 942:talk 918:talk 892:talk 877:talk 851:talk 816:talk 807:most 777:and 773:per 762:talk 725:more 712:only 690:talk 667:talk 643:talk 620:talk 604:Keep 594:talk 584:talk 573:Keep 553:talk 525:talk 510:talk 496:talk 474:talk 451:talk 433:talk 416:Keep 403:talk 380:talk 372:Keep 359:talk 350:. – 335:talk 326:. – 305:talk 291:talk 273:talk 257:logs 231:talk 227:edit 209:talk 177:FENS 151:news 112:logs 86:talk 82:edit 59:talk 50:keep 1036:RAN 871:.-- 750:not 490:?-- 362:) 338:) 191:TWL 120:– ( 54:Joe 1464:~ 1447:) 1426:~ 1410:) 1392:) 1363:) 1345:) 1320:) 1264:) 1243:~ 1216:) 1202:) 1188:) 1169:) 1140:) 1118:) 1080:) 1063:) 1042:) 1007:) 987:) 979:-- 966:) 944:) 920:) 879:) 789:? 785:? 764:) 683:. 669:) 645:) 622:) 614:. 596:) 555:) 512:) 498:) 476:) 468:. 453:) 435:) 405:) 382:) 307:) 293:) 275:) 259:| 255:| 251:| 247:| 242:| 238:| 233:| 229:| 211:) 171:) 114:| 110:| 106:| 102:| 97:| 93:| 88:| 84:| 1454:~ 1443:( 1437:: 1433:@ 1406:( 1388:( 1359:( 1341:( 1316:( 1260:( 1212:( 1198:( 1184:( 1165:( 1136:( 1114:( 1076:( 1059:( 1055:. 1038:( 1003:( 983:( 962:( 940:( 916:( 875:( 865:: 861:@ 760:( 665:( 641:( 618:( 592:( 582:( 571:* 551:( 508:( 494:( 472:( 449:( 431:( 401:( 378:( 356:( 332:( 303:( 289:( 271:( 263:) 225:( 207:( 195:) 187:· 181:· 173:· 166:· 160:· 154:· 148:· 143:( 135:( 132:) 125:· 118:) 80:( 61:) 57:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
talk page
deletion review
Joe
talk
17:30, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Billy Shreve
Billy Shreve
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Stats
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR
TWL
WP:POLITICIAN
Rusf10

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