1312:. I was surprised to learn after writing my opinion on Billy Shreve that this nomination also includes Bud Otis. I disagree that the nomination of Otis should piggyback on that of Shreve. These are different politicians with different considerations. A closing nominator has said this before me, however that closure was overruled in a deletion review and the AfD was reopened. I have not delved into every claim made in the review and accept that reviewer was entitled to make a decision. Now that s/he did, I'm adding my position on the linkage and the Bud Otis article here. I still want to encourage a separate discussion. The suggestion seems to be that this should be done on the same AfD page?!
844:, but neither of these gentlemen have done anything notable apart from serving on a local elections board, and the sourcing shows it. Due to the odd nature of this AfD (I thought it was just for Shreve) I have no problems with any sort of procedural keep, but I strongly believe neither of these articles are fit for Knowledge (XXG) based on the available sourcing, and are merely local political cruft.
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notable than everybody else who serves on a county government in the United States. There is no automatic entitlement for politicians at this level of government to have
Knowledge (XXG) articles, so listing them for deletion does not represent "genocide". If "local media coverage exists and therefore
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An article with a fair or better chance of standing on its own merits should not be bundled— nominate it separately. For the avoidance of doubt, bundling should not be used to form consensus around policy decisions such as "should wikipedia include this type of article". Bundling AfDs should be used
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This discussion and several recent and present discussions persuades me, as it has persuaded several editors commenting above, that too many editors are applying WP:NPOL without taking a close look at individual careers and available sources. Except with new pages on candidates actively running for
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is not a major publication. The other two come from the
Washington Post. Neither article is about Shreve. The first one is about a vote on a Scientology rehab, it has exactly one quote from Shreve. The second one is about the same rehab center and says Shreve was the only member to vote in favor of
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Okay, so why don't you explain to me how these two men have done anything of significantly different notability over their careers because I don't see it. The only elected position either held was on the same county council (or its predecessor) and I don't see anything even remotely notable about
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You and I have been involved in recent months in a large number of deletion discussions regarding county- state- and town-level politicians, and we both know that notability varies according to the vagaries of individual careers, even when, as you say above, "They hold the same damn position."
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Honestly, E.M. Gregory kinda is beating a dead horse with regards to the discussion being illegitimate. But you probably should have nominated Bud Otis seperately, since the notability of one may not mean the notability of the other. Just something to keep in mind going forward.
374:. Individual has received significant and ongoing coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Significant: article has 54 citations, of which 51 are independent reliable sources. Ongoing: citations are from the last 12 years. ~
781:. This article is source-bombed, but I cannot access many of them because they are behind a password-protected site. What is important: even though there are 55 sources currently on the page, where are the ones that help him become notable?
1439:- Completely uncalled for. You're accusing me of badgering people? Take a look at how many comments E.M. Gregory has above, starting with the comments he felt he needed to insert out of order at the top of the discussion.--
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if the sourcing expands far enough beyond the purely local to mark them out as a special case over and above most other county councillors. The sourcing in these articles is not doing that, however — they're referenced
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They have had different lives, different careers, and have gotten different amounts of media coverage. Moreover, editors commenting below have written as though addressing the notability of a single individual.
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Since you just admitted that you didn't even look at the other one, then I guess your keep vote for the second article doesn't count then. How many other articles have you voted keep on without even looking at
840:, and the best source is only an editorial. My analogy for these is similar to game coverage a really good high school basketball player: there will be lots of local coverage, and some of it may appear to pass
578:, long and significant career, article is already pretty well sourced and my brief exploration of his career brought up lots more material in WP:RS that can be added to improve the article.(I added a little)
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an invalid source for notability, as some here do. The coverage of this politician in this daily newspaper is nothing short of impressive. There are other sources. For example, I just added an item from the
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requires in-depth coverage though. The sources here are really poor because they are mostly about something other than the subject, but happen to have a breif mention or a few quotes from him.--
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he is a member of a county council and the coverage just does not rise to the level to show that he is fully notable. Local coverage can be found on any politician, we need more than that.
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I just noticed multiple people were nominated in this AfD. I stand by my delete for Shreve and would also like to note Bud Otis, in spite of a number of sources on his page, also fails
1161:. The article on my watchlist seems to be well-sourced, and it meets "importance" and GNG criteria. I am not checking the other one. Why are these bundled? Keep them both then. --
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He does not have coverage in the New York Times, he just has a couple quotes. The article is not about him. Neithier is the
Washingtonian article, it just mentions him a few times.--
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912:
I urge that this discussion be aborted. Nom has brought two individual politicians to a single discussion, but editors, (except
Bearcat and me,) are discussing it in the singular.
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is allowed so stop acting like I'm breaking the rules or something, just to derail the discussion. And if they somehow didn't know, they certainly do now with you bludgeoning.--
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for Otis, who is NN as a politician, but might be notable as a publisher. The issue is not whether the info is verifiable, but whether the people are notable.
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in which the first three paragraphs focus on Shreve. The entire article is focused on a project educating against drugs, in which Shreve was the driving force.
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A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists.
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Otis is certainly notable, while Shreve is arguably so but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. The two should not be nominated on the same page. ~
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enough to get a county councillor into
Knowledge (XXG) in and of itself, if the article doesn't demonstrate a credible reason why their notability extends
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took a deep dive into his pro-development politics in a group with two other pro-development politicians who held a majority on the county council.
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Another self-proclaimed HEYMANN.Does anyone still take these seriously? President of a small publishing company is not notable.--
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local political minutiae, and the ones I can access - the
Washington Post ones - he's only mentioned once or twice. Keep in mind
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Shreve who has done nothing notable apart from be a county politician (NN) and a politician's campaign manager (NN).
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Yet another problem with this awkward double nomination is that lists relevant to Otis may not be relevant to Shreve.
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office, I recommend tagging pages and leaving the tag in place for a year before taking politicians to AfD.
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Do you have to badger everyone who votes keep? Clearly he has a different conception of INDEPTH and GNG. ~
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Problematic decision to combine deletion of two individual politicians, each with a with unique career.
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withdrawing, discussion is illegitimate because it conflates the careers of two separate individuals.
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only for clear-cut deletion discussions based on existing policy. If you're unsure, don't bundle it.
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does it say the sources have to be "major." I'd say 54 sources is more than enough to get it over
52:. The double-nomination confused matters, but there is a rough consensus to keep both articles. –
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422:. Ample, robust souring from national publications.22:20, 23 May 2018 (UTC)(Comment unsigned by
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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I strongly disagree - this article is a clear example of a local politician who doesn't pass
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For my own edification, would you mind pointing out a couple articles you think pass WP:GNG?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Spent a couple of decades working for a major
Christian deniminaiton, off to Russia after
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836:. None of the articles discuss him outside of his local government position and are all
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They hold the same damn position. And trust me your behavior is even more problematic.--
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Shreve. Page has INDEPTH coverage of his career, mostly locally sourced, but including
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and by his reliably sourced political career before he was elected county commissioner.
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to exist for county councillors, and not to any strong evidence that either of them is
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I try to give attention appropriate to the quality of the deletion nomination. :) --
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We're probably looking at the same articles, just draw different conclusions.
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as a missionary and opened churches. Stuff like that. It's er, on the page.
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Obviously, my mistake is giving too much attention to a low-quality vote.--
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two sources out of the 55 presented which could satisfy that requirement.
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By my count 49 of those citations are from the same local newspaper. The
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their lives before that. Your objection comes down to nothing more than
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Do not fall for E.M.Gregory's wikilawyers, the nomination complies with
418:. Please stop the genocide of local politican's entries. Subject passes
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So he's a religious man. His positions were not notable. I question if
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is equally notable by the same standard, because local media coverage
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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should even exist, because at a quick glance, it does not meet
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Anyone who is able to read knows there are two articles and
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is passed" is enough for these two county councillors, then
1132:. Adding this to the Christian del-sort is disingenuous.--
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I'm not, I honestly thought this AfD was just for Shreve.
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I am seeing enough reliable coverage to meet WP:GNG. --
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --
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1053:list of Christianity-related deletion discussions
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1051:Note: This discussion has been included in the
952:Yes, I am familiar with the policy. It states:
744:exists — but Knowledge (XXG) has an established
346:Note: This discussion has been included in the
324:list of Politicians-related deletion discussions
322:Note: This discussion has been included in the
348:list of Maryland-related deletion discussions
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1333:Notability supported by being CEO of the
426:, please remember to sign your comments.)
1335:Review and Herald Publishing Association
1126:Review and Herald Publishing Association
787:Shreve raises staffing, parking concerns
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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32:Please do not modify it.
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78:Billy Shreve
70:Billy Shreve
49:
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31:
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1386:E.M.Gregory
1339:E.M.Gregory
1285:Backed out
1112:E.M.Gregory
1074:E.M.Gregory
1057:E.M.Gregory
1001:E.M.Gregory
960:E.M.Gregory
934:WP:MULTIAFD
914:E.M.Gregory
869:WP:MULTIAFD
663:E.M.Gregory
616:Smartyllama
606:Nowhere in
590:E.M.Gregory
580:E.M.Gregory
429:E.M.Gregory
301:E.M.Gregory
269:E.M.Gregory
163:free images
1331:WP:HEYMANN
1329:Bud Otis.
738:everywhere
353:TheGridExe
329:TheGridExe
1485:talk page
1254:Weak keep
1032:Keep both
746:consensus
37:talk page
1487:or in a
1297:RoySmith
1275:Relisted
1108:glasnost
801:states:
721:expected
717:entirely
635:WP:BASIC
576:Bud Otis
223:Bud Otis
122:View log
39:or in a
1380:. Plus
1196:Doncram
1180:them?--
1163:Doncram
838:WP:MILL
830:Comment
799:WP:NPOL
795:WP:MILL
779:WP:NPOL
758:Bearcat
708:WP:NPOL
658:Comment
240:protect
235:history
169:WP refs
157:scholar
95:protect
90:history
1441:Rusf10
1404:Rusf10
1357:Rusf10
1314:gidonb
1300:(talk)
1287:WP:NAC
1250:Delete
1210:Rusf10
1182:Rusf10
1134:Rusf10
1130:WP:ORG
981:Rusf10
938:Rusf10
873:Rusf10
842:WP:GNG
834:WP:GNG
775:WP:GNG
771:Delete
754:beyond
742:always
730:WP:GNG
704:Delete
681:WP:GNG
639:Rusf10
612:WP:GNG
549:gidonb
506:gidonb
492:Rusf10
488:WP:GNG
470:gidonb
466:WP:GNG
443:Delete
420:WP:GNG
399:Rusf10
287:Rusf10
244:delete
205:Rusf10
199:Fails
141:Google
99:delete
734:every
608:WP:RS
261:views
253:watch
249:links
184:JSTOR
145:books
129:Stats
116:views
108:watch
104:links
16:<
1459:EDDY
1445:talk
1421:EDDY
1408:talk
1390:talk
1374:Keep
1361:talk
1343:talk
1327:Keep
1318:talk
1289:per
1262:talk
1238:EDDY
1231:Keep
1214:talk
1200:talk
1186:talk
1167:talk
1159:Keep
1138:talk
1116:talk
1095:talk
1078:talk
1061:talk
1040:talk
1005:talk
985:talk
964:talk
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918:talk
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851:talk
816:talk
807:most
777:and
773:per
762:talk
725:more
712:only
690:talk
667:talk
643:talk
620:talk
604:Keep
594:talk
584:talk
573:Keep
553:talk
525:talk
510:talk
496:talk
474:talk
451:talk
433:talk
416:Keep
403:talk
380:talk
372:Keep
359:talk
350:. –
335:talk
326:. –
305:talk
291:talk
273:talk
257:logs
231:talk
227:edit
209:talk
177:FENS
151:news
112:logs
86:talk
82:edit
59:talk
50:keep
1036:RAN
871:.--
750:not
490:?--
362:)
338:)
191:TWL
120:– (
54:Joe
1464:~
1447:)
1426:~
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