548:"The impact of Childbirth experiences on women's sense of self: A review of the literature" in The Australian Journal of Midwifery -- the Google snippet only shows the term appearing as a citation of "Birth Rape" by M. Christensen (1992) (below). If a significant discussion of "birth rape" really appears in this secondary source (a review article), that would really go a long way toward establishing notability, but I'm not seeing it
500:.That textbook in turn cites four apparently reliable sources in relation to women's experiences during birth being like rape. The definition of "birth rape" is given as "the experience of having fingers, scissors, and/or tools put/pushed/shoved inside a woman's vagina or rectum without her direct (or indirect) permission, quoting Freeze (2008). Another book discusses "birth rape"
551:"Birth Rape" by M. Christensen (1992) in Midwifery Today, "Birth rape: another midwife's story" by Richland (2008) in Midwifery Today -- these might be useful as primary sources but we really need some good reliable secondary sources to use to actually write an encyclopedia article that isn't more than a dictionary definition and a list of anecdotal quotes from primary sources
953:. My reading of the material available is that even those reliable sources that accept the general "premise" (the traumatic experience), disagree with the application of the term itself, on the basis that it denotes a fringe-view reinterpretation of the word "rape". My concern would be that citing the sources that
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in"Birth
Journeys: Positive Birth Stories to Encourage and Inspire (2011)." Google scholar shows that "Women’s perceptions and experiences of a traumatic birth: a meta-ethnography" in Journal of Advanced Nursing, Volume 66, Issue 10, pages 2142–2153, October says "The term 'birth rape' has been used
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As nearly as I can tell, it means "sometimes women have very unpleasant birth experiences", with particular venom reserved for medical professionals who either behave badly (making rude remarks, for example) or who behave perfectly but are believed to have behaved badly by a mother, who was perhaps
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in
Midwifery Today Int Midwife. 2008 Spring;(85):42-3. Merging "a sentence" into the unassisted birth article in no way addresses the complaint, widely covered in reliable sources, about brutal and traumatizing practices in hospitals in which the woman in labor is treated in ways which can lead to
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discussing how some women perceive childbirth as a traumatic assault, according to the amount of discussion given to this aspect in the secondary sources, it does not appear to be a very big part of the topic. The number of references to this perception in the secondary sources as "birth rape" is
799:
I question your assertion that "birth rape" is a "play on birth rate." Any sources, or is it just your editorial intuition? The argument that the article must be deleted if created by a bad guy even if other editors find sources is unconvincing. And the coverage in a textbook published by Wiley
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says to fix problems and add sources yourself, the issue being raised at this AFD is that there aren't enough good sources to support an encyclopedia article. Do you have significant coverage and reliable secondary sources you can bring to help out? We looked and couldn't find them, that's the
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issue if we suggest that the sources demonstrate an acceptance of the term. I could accept that the term has been used (though not widely) but any article would need to reflect what the sources say: that it is a fringe term used by activists and rallied against by those few mainstream media
545:"Women’s perceptions and experiences of a traumatic birth: a meta-ethnography" in Journal of Advanced Nursing -- A one-sentence passing mention wouldn't qualify as "significant coverage". From the little Google Scholar snippet it doesn't appear to provide anything more than a defintion.
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article names as its primary source. What we need are reliable sources that are truly independent, not a bunch of sources that are quoting each other. See footnote 3 at WP:N: "Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works,
497:"Birth rape" is a term and a concept which is important in contemporary discussion of bad hospital birthing practice. Here is a use in a textbook of midwifery from 2010,"Essential Midwifery Practice: Intrapartum Care," published by Wiley-Blackwell, a respected academic publisher:
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not in the best condition for figuring out what was going on (you know, being busy giving birth, which probably didn't leave her a lot of time to keep track of who said what, much less enough education and experience to know whether an intervention was appropriate).
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The "limited note," "one advocate" and the "only in tabloids" claims are demolished by the multiple sources I found quickly and easily at Google Books and Google scholar, linked to below, which the nominator should have checked for before making the AFD nomination.
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calls into doubt your assertion that it is just "a midwifery slogan" as if it only appeared only on signboards of angry midwives marching around hospital entrances in protest. On the other hand, we do have a whole category of articles about slogans.
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at least one decently developed paragraph can be written. The ineptitude or distastefulness of the term is irrelevant, but after reading the meager stub I still don't know what "birth rape" is supposed to mean. The section at
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has no real lede. So an editor who cares about our coverage in this area could probably serve our readers better by organizing and developing more centrally located content in these preexisting articles.
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in The
Australian Journal of Midwifery, Volume 15, Issue 4, December 2002, Pages 10–16 per the snippet, cites "Christensen, M. (1992) "Birth Rape." Midwifery Today. 22 34. " Then there is
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by women who feel that their bodies have been violated, and that they have been coerced into consenting to procedures without being informed of their details and accompanying risks. ..."
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and doing a search on "birth rape" at PUBMED turns up zero hits. I'm still not seeing enough significant coverage in reliable secondary sources to be able to build a
Knowledge article.
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issue at worst. There isn't enough for an encyclopedia article and if its notability warrants further attention, someone should attempt to work it into an existing, broader article.
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I expect that we can find the same sorts of complaints from psychiatric patients, people recovering from surgery, people with cancer, people with advanced heart disease, etc.
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elete. In the current version it is a dicdef about something that possibly exists but not under this cacaphonous and alarmist term. I would suggest delete without redirect.
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the term. What matters is when reliable secondary sources analyze the term. The issues this concept raise are better discussed where they matter, perhaps somewhere like
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article but that is explicitly about physical trauma and is a poor effort with too much jargon. Other terms for the results of the mental trauma of the mother include
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671:. There is no need to have another fork, when a merge and redirect will suffice, so that the larger article has a brief mention on the POV-charged neologistic term. --
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for establishing notability. I don't doubt this term exists in the chat stream on certain blogs but that's not good enough to establish notability on
Knowledge.
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article from the sydney morning herald could probably be used to beef up the article somewhat, and could be used to keep it if another couple sources are found.
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Adjusted my own !vote to remove suggestion that a merge would be appropriate. I've thought about this. It is true that there probably should be a paragraph at
361:. I do not see enough coverage in secondary sources of the term "Birth rape" for a redirect link, although if we ended up with one I probably would not care.
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Neologism with very little real world usage, that seems to be pushed by one advocate. The only sources that refer to this topic are sensationalist tabloids. --
633:, but that's okay because there are editing issues with the extant piece, but we should canvas a select group so that we can keep this in spite of that?
782:. Best case scenario is that this is a POV-drenched non-notable neologism, worst case is that Knowledge is being trolled, with some apparent success.
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I'm saying that it would be good to have some women commenting upon the matter. And the topic here is not so much physical trauma as mental trauma.
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PTSD is a condition which develops after a trauma; it's not the actual trauma. And merger is not accomplished by deletion; it is a variety of Keep.
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PTSD. It is not just a dicdef., but an issue in contemporary, medical practice, in which hurried doctors do not explain what they are doing and why.
1103:. Many people make up many phrases. Knowledge should reflect actual usage, rather than merely referencing someone who used inflammatory language.
538:"Birth Journeys: Positive Birth Stories to Encourage and Inspire" (2011) -- Published by "Star Cass" which appears to be a vanity publisher:
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896:. It's a bit of a mess, though, and could use some sorting out, as psychological responses appear under the section on physical aftermath.
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203:. This is a sensationalist term used in journalism and no sources indicate a use of this term outside of a sensationalist context.
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into one of the articles of similar topics mentioned above. Sources are unreliable and sensationalist. Agree that it violates
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Hi Edison, clearly this subject matter is important to you personally, but we have to apply
Knowledge's standards here...
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Even if that were the case, merging is a better option than keeping a separate article, because the topic is still not
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very, very small compared to "traumatic birth experience" and this discussion should be added as a sentence or two at
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778:- Awesome, this article was created by a blocked sockpuppet who was adding info to the ultimate troll magnet piece,
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as non-notable neologism. It's a midwifery POV slogan, a play on "birth rate," not an encyclopedic concept.
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especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information
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No prejudice against a possible merge of a sentence from this article into some other article, maybe
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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1086:. However, I see no requirement that the term "birth rape" be used to discuss the concept.
507:"The impact of Childbirth experiences on women's sense of self: A review of the literature"
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available to establish that this is a widely used term beyond a small group of (perhaps
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seems to be a place where we collocate topics pertaining to new motherhood, pointing to
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is a confusing piece of work that according to the lede is about the child (or not?).
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That's not an article; it's a blog post. Specifically, it's the blog post that the
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articles. Otherwise beef it up a tad bit and mention it in BOTH articles.
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the act of being forced to engage in sexual intercourse without consent
941:- am inclined to support deletion given the apparent lack of multiple
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not enough in reliable secondary sources to support a full article.
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articles. There are enough reliable sources to beef up the article
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per usage in multipile reliable sources, a definition is given in
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Wiley p219 It is discussed in midwifery today as can be seen in
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949:) activists (one of the sources describes them that way), per
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The gender gap project should be told about this. We have a
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Wouldn't the article title also be a blatant violation of
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list of
Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions
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and it definitely is a slightly different take from both
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commentators who have decided to weigh into the issue.
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available (quantity aside) could only ever result in a
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611:is to build upon such starts, not to delete them.
435:. As Zad68 said, a brief mention can be placed in
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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902:Childbirth-related posttraumatic stress disorder
669:Childbirth-related posttraumatic stress disorder
359:Childbirth-related posttraumatic stress disorder
52:Childbirth-related posttraumatic stress disorder
540:http://en.youscribe.com/star-cass/publications/
411:Essential Midwifery Practice: Intrapartum Care
984:list of Medicine-related deletion discussions
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1203:Note: This debate has been included in the
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629:So you are saying this is a content fork of
392:- NPOV, notability BS WP:NOT, you name it!!!
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886:Postnatal#Postpartum period in mothers
511:"Birth rape: another midwife's story."
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417:Radcliff Seems a widely used term.
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18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
607:for detailed discussion. Our
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595:unhappiness after childbirth
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604:The Social Context of Birth
415:The Social Context of Birth
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1084:obstetrics and gynaecology
877:Merge content and redirect
1143:if someone wants to do it
1323:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
898:Birth trauma (physical)
631:birth trauma (physical)
591:birth trauma (physical)
1301:" (emphasis added).
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480:LeadSongDog
474:belongs in
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1088:Biosthmors
1012:WP:SOAPBOX
485:come howl!
476:Wiktionary
355:Childbirth
350:Childbirth
78:Birth rape
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50:merge to
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1330:or in a
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39:or in a
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601:. See
433:notable
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169:WP refs
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141:Google
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1135:Merge
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1016:Scray
840:email
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184:JSTOR
145:books
129:Stats
116:views
108:watch
104:links
16:<
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1240:this
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