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not seeing a merge rationale and its more fury over the fact that an RFC over its split wasn't made. Though no one seems to be questioning notability or relevancy for the adaptation. The movies are less than 1/200th as long yet something larger than the original page can't stay? Sorta seems off. An all-in-one would completely ruin both pages. I've tested it. Check for yourself if your so inclined. We can discuss the "merge" issue after this AFD closes as "keep, discuss merge", but merging the two would put it back to being splittable under size.
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But we have that. And while the reception is one thing, what about the original arcs? What of the veteran cast and their roles? Why not be specific for articles that are specific? If you honestly believe a 150kb+ article covering the aspects of the anime and the manga and everything else is necessary
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limits it to being a "manual of style". I think over 40+ references and many worldwide releases is presumption that the anime adaptation which contains a lot of original material is worthy of its own stand alone page. And I think the contentious nature of the repeated blank and redirect is clear that
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It wouldn't really be a happy outcome because he still acted against consensus to produce a page that several people previously said he should not have. The fact that he has to spend 12000 characters describing the music and soundtracks, even with half of it in a table, really shows how much padding
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Harry Potter is a sequence of 7 books and 8 movies and god knows what else. Star Wars is two trilogies of movies and a whole bunch of other stuff. Bleach is a still published manga, 300 anime episodes based on that manga, and a bunch of films that have nothing to do with either. The way Japan treats
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should be about the franchise itself, since it has a lot of information not just related to the manga: Anime, Soundtrack CDs, Films, Musicals, Trading card game, Video games, Light novels, Other. And what is listed there about the anime, doesn't show the reception just the anime got, or other valid
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I'm sorry, but can no one discuss the merits of the actual issue instead of piling on this "no consensus to first split"? We have 87 sources and 111 original episodes worth of content not found in the manga and not done by Kubo. Now I'm not sure why
Ryulong is removing the cast information, but I'm
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conflicts to end and this was included. Anyways, what's done is done and the community gets to decide. I'll clean up the soundtrack section. I didn't realize it was so unwieldy in that format. Ryulong, keep attacking me and calling my additions "bloating" and I'll bring it to Arb Com immediately. I
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Thank you for clarifying that. I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, but I will accept it. I must ask about the specific focus being the topic of the anime and how that proper coverage of either the manga or the anime would result in a very long and complex article. More than half the article
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The size guidelines refer to the prose size and not to the size of the article's wikicode, which is not considered to be a good measure of the overall length. The pre-split prose size of the Bleach article was just 27 kB, which is well short of the 50 that would make a split advisable. It could be
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a franchise. Look it up in a dictionary. It is a media franchise that extends to books, anime, movies, novels, soundtracks, dramas, video games, toys and more. Not sure why you contest that. Though I'd like to point out that the anime reception should be much smaller and the movies and other deals
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The plot section contains two paragraphs about two different original arcs not found in the manga. The duplicate parts should be shortened, just link to the manga plot in its article. Voice cast, Production, Music, Episodes, Release, International releases, and
Reception sections are all content
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The issue still somewhat stands that anything you say about the anime is pretty much what you can say about the manga and vice versa. Unless there are sources that commend the animation or that relate solely to the storylines that occur only within the anime (or its dub) then there's no reason to
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If ChrisGualtieri can add new material supported by reliable sources to the new anime article, and by doing so he expands it enough to warrant a split of the main article, it would be a happy outcome for both parties IMO. But neither does this mean that it should be expanded just for the sake of
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I've just pulled more sources that I have access to. Like the "Behind the Scenes" documentary, and some academic works. I have added a good amount of necessary Kubo information and added some casting and analysis of the characters. I disagree with
Ryulong's removal of the content covering Kubo's
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Because I don't think it works in the situation of manga and anime. A franchise page should be created when the subject has existed for such a long time that discussion of the whole gets in the way of discussion of its disparate parts. This has not, in my opinion, happened for various anime and
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Again with this franchise page nonsense. These do not work for anime and manga. And really the only place reception of the movies should be on the articles for the movies themselves, if they existed. Otherwise discussion of the animated movies should be in the same location as discussion of the
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What talk page consensus? The only thing that was done was edit warring to remove the page and the article is roughly 40kb as it stands right now. And half the references and a ton of content isn't even included yet! Can we please focus on why the anime is not suitable for its own stand alone
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Can you stop calling things "shit" and such just because you do not like it? Your enforcement of your personal views at any cost only results in highly confusing and sparsely written pages that do not even cover the adaptations or original content. You believe that the cast and characters are
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Its notability cannot be adequately distinguished from the originating manga. Both are notable as a unit rather than notable separately. This split goes against consensuses formed on the two pages I stated. You cannot keep splitting pages on the basis that "it meets GNG" because all of your
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makes it clear that the article's size is not a justification for splitting in this case, as anything below 40 kB would fall under "length alone does not justify division" by following the rule of thumb provided in that page. An article with just 27 kB of readable prose is not long by any
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manga. You can discuss the anime adaptation of Bleach alongside the original manga easily. All you have to do is say "this only happened in the anime" for shit like the Bount arc or the
Captain Amagai arc and you say the anime is over and discuss the Wanderreich arc as part of the manga.β
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along with every other silly article about cartoons and comic books. I don't understand what this junk is doing on WP at all, can someone explain to me why you have to establish notability for university professors or orchestral conductors for instance but childish stuff like this gets
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references that you find are simply a western view point that overly inflates the presence of the anime version rather than the manga because for whatever stupid reason the manga is always more popular in Japan and the anime is always more popular in foreign territories. That is why
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isn't a valid reason to delete something. Knowledge is mostly popular culture items, and always has been. These are the types of pages that most people visit, and take time to edit and fuss about. Destroying this sort of article won't make the other articles improve any.
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They are treated the same way. Bleach is a manga, Anime, Soundtrack CDs, Films, Musicals, Trading card game, Video games, Light novels, Other stuff, including toys. American comic books get turned into cartoons, movies, games, toys, and whatnot, in the same way. Also,
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Plot is identical. Cast and characters are identical. Discussion is identical. As I said above, the only reason there are any references critically discussing the anime is because it is exported faster and is the more popular form in
Western
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not connected to the manga at all. So most of the article is about the anime not the manga. Reliable sources give significant coverage to the anime on its own, so it passes all notability requirements for a
Knowledge article.
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useless, but these are needed for the GA. Articles must have a proper level of self contained context for their topic and scattering it to the four winds only makes readers who want to access that information unable to do so.
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237:) as the basis for his decision that the article should go forth as he and only he plans and constantly demands that discussions regarding redirecting/merging be done at AFD rather than article talk pages by citing
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I did not spend "thousands of characters" on how many tracks. You have once again removed an entire section that you should not have. It needs to be covered on this article and not "mained" out to somewhere else.
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That information concerns the manga and not the anime. If this was a unified manga/anime article it might be valid to cover it, but since you demand that it's an anime only article it doesn't have a place.β
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You spent thousands of characters saying how many tracks were on each of the 4 OST disks and made a massive paragraph out of the character song albums. That's padding. And, all I did was move content to
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are the one "scattering it to the four winds" by taking all of the anime information off of the main Bleach page. List articles have always existed so I don't know why you think that's "scattering it".β
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suggests it and the adaptation is completely different. Perhaps you could state why the article should be merged instead of complaining about discussion pre-split. Stick to the content matter please.
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is something that isn't a work of fiction to begin with should not be a valid reason to split an article off that would be so difficult to curate simultaneously, which is basically the only reason
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When have I ever said I didn't like it? And there has never been this call for a separate page on the anime version of Bleach until you decided it was the best idea since sliced bread. And
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and there is no need to completely separate the topics because they are so heavily intertwined as it is should be the selling point as to why you should have not recreated this page.β
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It's not a franchise. It's a manga that has an anime adaptation that has films and video game adaptations. It being a franchise is an invention on
Knowledge. Tite Kubo's
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possible that, since you plan to add lots of content, it might be better to split the article in the future, but for now we're not really close to that point.--
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suggests that pages be about both forms the media takes. It cannot forbid the creation of such pages, but the fact that a bunch of editors already decided that
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including both splitting and detail clauses. Ryulong wants this article to be non-existant and clearly there is more than enough information and references.
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Chris I am just saying we should have a consensus in place first, this is contested so what will it hurt to have input from the community on the matter? -
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Repeated blank and redirecting, personal attacks and robbing it of the AFD to push this consensus is silly. Not to mention the mediation matter needed
263:- Rather than respond to his rudeness, this is a simple matter. First of all, MOSAM cannot institute its own notability guidelines as per the RFC.
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I do not believe that your comments are helpful to this or any situation, Smeat75. Also, judging by the nearly two hundred combined sources at
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per previous talk page consensus, and as an unnecessary content fork of a topic that can adequately be addressed in a single article.--
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1367:- then say so. What I foresee is yet more pruning and cutting of content. At such sizes, it is not simple to navigate or comprehend.
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should be on the franchise page, or if it becomes a manga centric page - removed. Either way this has no bearing on the current AFD.
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but ChrisGualtieri has just gone ahead and gone against consensus to restore the page based on a single complaint made by Niemti at
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has never once as far as I am aware been referred to as a "franchise" up until you saying it is one right now. And the only reason
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would not be applicable to the other half if combined and if a movie can get its own article, why not a 100+ hour long series?
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and having it be held for the mediation which
Ryulong dropped out of is not a resolution. This article can stand on N/GNG and
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concept, design and name of the series. Especially while I am in the process of better organizing and filling in the gaps.
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and the bit of the guideline that stated "it's not a good idea to have separate articles on the anime and the manga".β
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because it's a better location for all of it than having a giant table on the article describing the same content.β
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Does description of the filler arcs really mean the anime and the manga are different though? Voice cast is what
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uses the word "franchise" twice in the opening paragraph. So why would you not use that terminology?
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and the sixteen season lists. The parent article isn't long enough to justify a split either. β
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No reason to merge or delete this article. It is plenty enough notable and worthy on its own.
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Your extreme views aside; they clearly work for Harry Potter, Star Wars and countless others.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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things is different from how
Hollywood does and you should not use the same terminology.β
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see no reason that its themes, production or music should be removed. You
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as an unnecessary content fork. The differences are adequately covered by
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Secondly, MOSAM doesn't say anything ABOUT this and it should not because
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and bloating he is adding to the article to support its splitting.β
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Since you revealed this
Underlying lk, ChrisGualtieri has been
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The paragraph about the 4 soundtrack volumes is massive. And
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because he is using an AFD that closed as no consensus (see
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Knowledge:Manual of Style/Anime- and manga-related articles
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animated television series because of same cast, same etc.β
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Stop saying it's not official because it gets in your way.β
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of all people are mad at me for splitting off an article?β
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really differentiate between reception of the two media.β
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You mean expanding the article with more valid content?
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because ChrisGualtieri deleted the section from the page
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that opposed the creation of this page as separate from
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for example, is clearly a list disguised as prose.--
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list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions
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No, I don't think I wrote that at all, Dream Focus.β
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50:no consensus
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161:free images
54:Mark Arsten
1396:WP:SPINOFF
649:Franchise.
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268:WP:POLICY
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120:View log
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239:WP:BLAR
167:WPΒ refs
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495:Focus
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