1012:
I also note that most of these were 'speedy deletes', unfortunately you and a few rogue admins seem to think notability is valid for a speedy delete, apparently it is not, i read the policy and it appears speedy deletes should only be for copyright issues. People like you will kill WP DarkSabre. I still note you have about ZERO actual proper edits to WP, you contribute NOTHING outside of 'Doom metal' which is about as notable as my arse, but delete anything that gets in your way using an incorrect method. WPs inherent beurocracy is the only reason you get away with it, because most of us don't have the time to fight all this rubbish. Back to the point, SeanKelly1986's links prove notability. Oh yes they do.
909:
brings, the amazing ability for a small company from Elgin, Scotland to create a game that spans the globe, can only be experienced and decided upon as an individual. Gothador will not be diminished if we are no longer listed in
Knowledge (XXG), though the reverse should be assessed. If over one hundred thousand people play this online game with immense satisfaction and a website arbitrarily decides to delete our game from it's listing, then perhaps the people that enjoy the game could merely forget to surf to Knowledge (XXG). Word of mouth, or in this case, pixel, is more powerful than any advertisement. Gothador will still be there, and we'll have more time to commit to our online hobby. --
688:. The top link wont work on my PC, the same goes for the second, I'll have to check them later. Urban Dictionary nearly made me wet myself laughing. You genuinely believe that is a reliable source? A web site where anyone can submit any word they've made up and have a 99.9% chance of having it accepted? As for MPOGD, a listing on a database that aims to list every online game in existence is hardly a notable claim to fame. It's like to trying to argue that you should have an article because your names in the phone book. As for Answers.com, I think you'll find if you look closely you will see THEIR article is actually credited to Knowledge (XXG), as is nearly all their information.
740:(or possibly Database, can't remember without checking, but it doesn't affect the point). It lists online games, anyone can submit links to new games, which are then duly listed. I know because I submitted a couple myself. As for providing sources to prove the unreliability of a source, don't be absurd. You have to prove Urban Dictionary is reliable, not me prove it unreliable. And like I said with MPOGD, I've submitted things to Urban Dictionary myself. Anyone can sign up to be an editor and approve or disapprove of the new entries. I could join up, approve my own definition of myself and attempt to add a wikipedia article claiming 'but I'm listed on Urban Dictionary'.
790:
MMORPGs and part of the DELETION list I see that apparently other games are not being deleted. That to me indicates this whole session as having been started as a hatewar against the game and more accurately either its creators or a personal issue with another player. It would seem to me that if
Gothador were to be dleted - one must delet ALL games that have any simillarities to each oher keeping (after much research) only those with the most orriginality and only within a generic group teh apparently oldest
379:. I would like to note that many of the previous posts are from former players of the game. This is a bit biased in my opinion. The article defines what the game is about and will be of interest to those who like to play MMRPG's in the future. The players might want to be more active in updating the article though. I did a google search myself and found many entries that were related to the game including the Wikki article. I would vote to definitely keep this article
1038:. I look forward to arbitration, then we can tell them who suggested I look at all these articles in the first place. But if we can move away from your personal grudge against me and actually discuss THIS article, that'd be great. Of the 5 sources provided, the top 2 I can't check on this PC, they wont load for some reason, I'll have to look over them later. But the last 3 sources would be laughed out of ANY article they were included in.
1466:- Yes - Ive posted from a single use account - I dont deny it - Untill this was brought to my attention I didnt even realise there was a registration and "argument" section in Knowledge (XXG). Theres mention above of the game being mentioned ina local newspaper - agreed - it was. it WAS ALSO quite recently (1-2 months ago) discussed in an article in a NATIONAL DUTCH newpaper as it has a large following in Holland
134:
995:
unbiased and go with entirely factual evidence, you'd visit the site and take the two-week trial so that you can have an opinion that is based on actual usage and not numbers. If
Knowledge (XXG) wants to base it's listings on random ratings and visits, then you should probably start deleting articles, starting at the very first one... --
777:- why - 1/ Ive read the summary of the game and whilst it is slightly out of date (but as the game is alwyas expanding it could be out of date withing hours of typeing) is quite acurate and factual. It makes no appearance as an advertisement - simply an article on a game -- 2/ There is one point made earlier that QUOTE : -->
1083:
Well you have recieved more posts I see and some good articles. There has been nothing but negative and harsh feedback to those replies, not just mine. Knowledge (XXG) will of course, do what it wants with this article and that is fine because that is their choice. Other concerns have however been
984:
No. Alexa measures site traffic, Google is a search engine. There as different as cars and yachts. Of course more people go to google than Alexa. Like you said most people don't even know about Alexa until they are told their 'notable' website doesn't rank very highly on it in an AfD on wikipedia. If
475:
any of the comments here? I'm not vehement against the entry, just people who make keep arguments that are absolutely not based on any wikipedia policies bar how not to argue for a keep, and people who can only make arguments based round 'conspiracy theories.' Policies cited as a reason for deletion:
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list)). The actual results (if you follow it a page at a time): 94 websites are found. None of them are reviews, none of them are mentions in reports or news. The only sources you have been able to provide yourselves are downlink link pages that feature, at most, a paragraph describing the game. Far
1090:
I am beginning to understand why more and more college professors will no longer accept
Knowledge (XXG) in their thesis papers due to the process that is being used to edit the articles. You can delete my account after this for I will not attempt to help anymore. I have tried on other articles and
1011:
Yet another one
Darksabre? Tsk tsk. You have somthing against these game don't you... I will be taking the whole thing to arbitration the minute I figure out how. I don't think the destruction of 40 odd articles in the same category is on. Not without a proper debate on the nature of the category...
434:
I stand corrected, I have no proof, but I do recognize at least one of the names. I am not saying that there is a 'conspiracy.' So far there seems to be little to no actual discussion, just delete or speedy delete with little to no reason attached. I'm not sure what 'proof' you are looking for, I
974:
Funny, until you'd mentioned it, I'd never heard of an Alexa rank, and I've been an avid internet user since 1996. Google is far more popular to the average person, topped only by MSN and Yahoo... and even Alexa shows that on it's sites. So for the average person, IE, the majority of people that
908:
Any argument can be made as to why
Gothador should or should not remain in Knowledge (XXG), but the final decision is not going to be made due to who can try and defame another person. The only way that a fair and impartial decision can be made is by playing the game. The comradery that the game
1350:
Radneto is claming he read.) The 5 star rating is not an indicator of notability, as you could have requested fans of the game repeatedly vote it 5 star to improve it's standing. On the flip side, someone could just as easily vote it 1 star repeatedly and lower it's rating. A website for the game
1104:
DarkSabre, since you yourself claimed that one should join and use the Alexa website before passing judgement on it, shouldn't you, by those standards that you set, do the same with
Gothador before passing judgement regarding its validity? This is not a stab at you or the deletion post, merely an
699:
I would like to see you back up your argument against Urban
Dictionary with some sort of source. I don't see anything about the MPOGD site trying to "List every online game in existence" as well. In response to your comment about Answers.com ... that pretty much says the article IS being used and
994:
Using a virtually unknown website that measures the entire internet's traffic is somewhat like trying to use a telescope to count every star in the sky. It's not going to be as accurate as some people would like to believe, as every website is going to be biased. If you were truly trying to be
789:
Delete. Outwar clones are a dime a dozen (Urban Dead, Earth: 2025, Nation States, Starships!, Kingdom of
Loathing, etc). No notability per WP:WEB, no article. Zetawoof(ΞΆ) 23:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC) <<<<<<<<< there are many outwar clones. Having read part of the list of
1105:
attempt to let you have a bit more insight as to why people might be fighting to keep the article on WP. In fact, I would be willing to pay for you to have a trial membership for those two weeks. (Pardon my ignorance regarding how to use this site. I'm trying, but internet impaired)~~Persephone
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Trivial coverage, such as (1) newspaper articles that simply report the internet address, (2) newspaper articles that simply report the times at which such content is updated or made available, (3) a brief summary of the nature of the content or the publication of internet addresses and site or
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right now. All of which have sourcing ten times better than this article, and two are gone anyway. If there is any kind of merit at all, it get's my vote to keep. This article is just an unsourced advertisement, and a recreation of deleted material. It should have been speedy deleted long ago.
1284:
As respectfully as I am able: Please read the notability rules. Anybody can put five stars on anything at tucows, and as for the game creator, if you think a minor plug in a local paper makes him noteworthy, then please feel free to create an article about the guy. Please sign your comments.
887:
created a game that has spanned the globe in a matter of months, and has managed to sustain that game for years. This MMORPG game that we are currently discussing has an amazing 103978 registered users for their forum which is conjoined with their game, Gothador. That can be shown here
505:
Thank you for pointing out my faults DarkSaber2k. I will do what I can to research the links you posted and add to that. I would also like to know how you only got 10 hits on a google search. I simply typed in 'Gothador' and returned, as I said, at least 10 pages. Happy surfing
881:
This is a topic that seems to be slowly spiralling into a heated debate, and the best way to battle in this is with logic and facts. I will make it a point to keep my facts succinct and to the point to avoid any undue distress to any of the parties involved with this discussion.
1025:
Got you facts wrong again Bj? Tsk tsk. Check who nominated the article. Guess what? Not me. As for just editing Doom Metal, your very bad at making people look bad you know. Even cursory examination of my contributions shows I'm active in numerous articles from
1064:? For a laugh? Failure to assert notability is practically the ONLY criteria for a speedy deletion, along with advertising, nonsense pages and attack pages. It's so specific I'm amazed anyone could mis-interpret to be solely about copyright violation.
407:
And how exactly can you tell they are former players just from their posts in this AfD? Maybe you could tell us how your search yields 'many' entries as sources, when another editors yielded only 10. Do you have any argument that isn't based in
965:), yet this is not the case. The article makes no mention of winning an award (Criteria 2) and makes no mention of being distributed through a notable method (Criteria 3). The article has no Secondary sources, required to establish notability.
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As a matter of fact, I've tagged over 30 Browser-based MMOs for speedy deletion in the last couple of weeks whilst patrolling lists for accumulated junk articles, all but 2 of which were deleted for actually being non-notable. So once again
424:
and attempting to unveil a 'conspiracy' of former players? You've failed to address the notability issue also. Whilst it is by no means the be-all and end-all of notability, this sites Alexa
Ranking seems to be especially poor.
435:
did a google search and it returned at least 10 pages of content. Others have failed to show any proof at all or even leave a remark. I am also curious as to why you are so vehement against this entry.
892:
Fact: Even with that many registered users, Hunted Cow Studios manages at least one game upgrade per week along with weekly updates and their recently implemented 24 hour live support feature.
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I rest my case about Urban Dictionary not being a reliable source. And those other links check out as download descritptions, which are trivial mentions, not media coverage.
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would be another thing this guy should (and therefore probably wont) read. Tucows, as a download site, is only a trivial mention on a download page. (Per the same
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or where it ranks on a google search (for websites, people generally hold an Alexa rank in higher regard than a google search). It also doesn't matter how much
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282:
492:. Knowledge (XXG) policies cited as a reason for keeping the article: None. Additionally, 'I recognize one of the names' is an extremely weak reason to claim
564:
Even if you had spelt the name right, you'd have found 94 websites of download directory listings and fansites. Not a single review or news mention.
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So it's up to you to provide links to these 'at least 10 pages' (so I'm expecting more than 10 if there are 'at least' that many) that satisfy the
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If pointing out to people why their notability is non-existent in the most thorough way imaginable is rudeness, then yes, I was rude in this AfD.
895:
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KINDLY don't lump people who are posting things without any sort of sources, and those who ARE posting relevant sources in the same group.
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The obligation to provide a reliable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not with those seeking to remove it.
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1227:- Lacking in reliable/secondary sources. Urban Dictionary, FilePlanet, etc... are not reliable/independent sources of information.
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It's a big wide web out there, and many time I've found someone else using 'my' name, and I'm positive I'm not the only one.
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FrankNStien, there is no conspiracy outside of your own head. Now do you have an argument for keeping that isn't based on
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I find it upsetting to see some of the comments levelled at DarkSaber2k above. Can users like Bjrobinson please review
1060:. Failure to assert notability is not a speedy criteria? Then why o why does practicly EVERY speedy tag say 'Blah blah
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36:
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And as for Speedy Delete being only for copyright issues, which page did you read? Because it sure as heck wasn't
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you were looking up what time a TV show starts, would you go look up the ratings for the show, or use a TV guide?
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
1306:- It seems the above articles are proof enough to justify the keeping of the article. There are also fan sites -
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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I just realized that almost everyone voting to keep is a single purpose account! WHY ARE WE WASTING OUR TIME?
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My bad, I mis-spelt the name during the search (typing 'gothandor' by mistake) Article still fails
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which also fall into the subsections of the afore mentioned article and also prove notability. -
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Each - removes those results, removing wikipedia and all message board (which are top of the
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as well. Being rude to people who feel that this page is notable is quite counterproductive.
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create website traffic, they are going to get to their sites via MSN, Yahoo or Google. --
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You got a name for the newspaper and a link to article, or have we gotta guess? Oh and,
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These are sites that are regularly visited by hundreds of thousands of gamers everyday.
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http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/wpn-60-200701122007TheYearoftheOnlineGame.htm
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When you finally post a reliable source, I'll consider changing how I think of you.
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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LOL, I was wondering where all these single purpose accounts were coming from!
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654:, www.answers.com/topic/gothador . What do YOU define as a "Reliable source"?
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of its website has been fluctuating, but since February it's over 100.000.
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required. And the same goes for the fan site. Hardly independent is it.
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found pretty much the same attitudes. Thank you and have a nice day.
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Failed to show proof or remark on the sources you say? Have you even
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759:(4) content descriptions in internet directories or online stores.
1378:
KEEP - Matt Brennen your a tool, and I know where your at bish!
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
736:(resetting indent) MPOGD is called the Multiplayer Online Game
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Merely pointing out where in the article it was. More sources:
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many of the previous posts are from former players of the game.
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1244:) and the game creator was featured in the local newspaper (
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Multiple, independent non-trivial third party media mentions
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159:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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Keep - The game was reviewed and given 5 stars by Tucows (
1581:, this article has been recreated at least once already.
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I fight tooth and nail for these games. I fought to keep
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among Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
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I really don't see what more this is to say about this.
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Fact: Gothador has over 10,00 listings on Google alone
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gothador
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So your saying this must be considered notable because
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http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.gothador.com
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shows as #7 with average time logged (As of 12JAN07)
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1577:Thanks for reminding me to request the article be
1131:- I just finished the following search on google.
534:I didn't do the search, Masamune did, so ask him.
1603:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1504:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Hoofmaster
267:- No assertion of notability, unsourced. Fails
947:How many link directories it's been listed in
179:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
8:
1417:Please feel free to cite DarkSaber2k on the
941:The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter
840:the other two 'keep' sayers stated earlier?
1351:developer is hardly (here we go again) the
1062:fails to assert to notability of this topic
943:how many people have played it for how long
652:http://www.mpogd.com/games/game.asp?ID=2688
1500:recreation of a previously deleted article
1133:Gothador -wikipedia -forum -message -board
153:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
414:WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS#It doesn't do any harm
897:including listings on Big Online Games,
281:Note: This debate has been added to the
173:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
951:high regard you have for the developers
644:http://www.gamewyrd.com/others/cyber884
246:Online RPG, no evidence of notability.
1529:A7 web content, and block the socks.
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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586:http://www.tucows.com/preview/363018
555:though, so my opinion still stands.
1302:Well according to the rules here -
626:a lot of time is spent on the site?
422:WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS#It's interesting
916:NytDunne - Gothador Supporter Nyt
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1146:independent third-party mentions.
684:I don't define reliable sources,
1242:http://tucows.com/preview/363018
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1472:you should have a look at this.
1246:http://72.29.72.185/article.jpg
1032:Command & Conquer: Generals
836:, or is that all you have like
1506:, which seems to be related. β
1308:http://www.guildofwisdom.co.uk
1304:http://en.wikipedia.org/WP:WEB
418:WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS#It's useful
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169:on the part of others and to
463:You stand corrected again:
329:clones are a dime a dozen (
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358:23:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
349:, etc). No notability per
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259:07:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
1498:, and apparently it is a
1198:Well here's the problem!
1596:Please do not modify it.
1560:, as pointed out above.
1312:http://www.huntedcow.com
884:Fact: Hunted Cow Studios
32:Please do not modify it.
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1366:08:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
1356:independent third party
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560:09:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
211:; accounts blocked for
181:single-purpose accounts
151:policies and guidelines
65:00:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
52:were not presented for
48:. Multiple non-trivial
1169:, and am fighting for
308:Speedy Delete and SALT
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283:list of CVG deletions
58:notability guidelines
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365:. fails notability.
1184:Yet Another Comment
347:Kingdom of Loathing
163:by counting votes.
142:not a majority vote
1137:unreliable sources
830:WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS
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961:(Criteria 1 of
584:. Is relevent,
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44:The result was
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1583:Matt Brennen
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1508:72.75.73.158
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1287:Matt Brennen
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1188:Matt Brennen
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900:Tucows.com,
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797:FrankNStien
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315:Matt Brennen
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213:sockpuppetry
206:
195:; suspected
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54:verification
45:
43:
31:
28:
1556:as failing
1485:Delete and
1475:DarkSaber2k
1451:DarkSaber2k
1441:) has made
1406:Marasmusine
1388:) has made
1363:DarkSaber2k
1334:) has made
1268:) has made
1229:Wickethewok
1200:DarkSaber2k
1150:DarkSaber2k
1144:non-trivial
1115:) has made
1066:DarkSaber2k
1040:DarkSaber2k
987:DarkSaber2k
967:DarkSaber2k
930:) has made
860:DarkSaber2k
842:DarkSaber2k
811:) has made
801:FrankNStien
792:FrankNStien
763:DarkSaber2k
742:DarkSaber2k
717:) has made
690:DarkSaber2k
674:) has made
629:DarkSaber2k
612:) has made
566:DarkSaber2k
557:Marasmusine
544:DarkSaber2k
526:) has made
498:DarkSaber2k
467:Marasmusine
455:) has made
427:DarkSaber2k
399:) has made
335:Earth: 2025
300:Marasmusine
287:DarkSaber2k
273:DarkSaber2k
256:Mike Rosoft
1490:... lacks
1171:Starships!
1167:Tribalwars
1049:Bjrobinson
1014:Bjrobinson
834:WP:ILIKEIT
700:referenced
542:criteria.
410:WP:ILIKEIT
343:Starships!
331:Urban Dead
248:Alexa rank
147:discussion
1163:Iselkampf
1142:multiple
1140:short of
1058:WP:SPEEDY
1028:Manhunt 2
957:that are
738:Directory
203:canvassed
197:canvassed
156:consensus
1562:Tony Fox
1518:contribs
1439:contribs
1419:WP:CIVIL
1402:WP:CIVIL
1342:I think
1332:contribs
1266:contribs
997:NytDunne
977:NytDunne
959:reliable
928:contribs
920:NytDunne
911:NytDunne
809:contribs
715:contribs
672:contribs
610:contribs
524:contribs
453:contribs
397:contribs
355:Zetawoof
235:username
229:{{subst:
223:username
217:{{subst:
207:username
201:{{subst:
191:username
185:{{subst:
123:View log
79:Gothador
71:Gothador
1575:Comment
1464:COMMENT
1324:Radneto
1316:Radneto
1258:Radneto
1250:Radneto
1159:Comment
1129:Comment
1084:voiced.
312:WP:SNOW
199:users:
96:protect
91:history
1579:SALTED
1566:(arf!)
1558:WP:WEB
1554:Delete
1348:WP:WEB
1344:WP:COI
1225:Delete
1034:, via
963:WP:WEB
553:WP:ATT
490:WP:ATT
478:WP:WEB
363:Delete
351:WP:WEB
327:Outwar
323:Delete
296:Delete
269:WP:ATT
252:Delete
100:delete
62:Wafulz
46:delete
788:: -->
787:: -->
786:: -->
785:: -->
784:: -->
783:: -->
782:: -->
781:: -->
780:: -->
779:: -->
778:: -->
506:today
486:WP:RS
177:Note:
117:views
109:watch
105:links
16:<
1512:talk
1496:WP:N
1492:WP:A
1487:salt
1435:talk
1386:talk
1328:talk
1262:talk
1248:) -
1113:talk
1102:KEEP
1009:Keep
924:talk
876:Keep
832:and
805:talk
775:Keep
711:talk
668:talk
606:talk
582:Keep
520:talk
482:WP:N
473:read
449:talk
393:talk
377:Keep
310:re:
254:. -
113:logs
87:talk
83:edit
60:. --
56:and
1542:bli
1030:to
838:you
420:,
231:csp
227:or
219:csm
187:spa
161:not
121:β (
1545:nd
1539:ar
1536:St
1533:-
1520:)
1437:β’
1429:β
1380:β
1330:β’
1322:β
1264:β’
1256:β
1165:,
1107:β
945:,
926:β’
918:β
807:β’
799:β
713:β’
705:β
670:β’
662:β
650:,
646:,
642:,
608:β’
600:β
522:β’
514:β
488:,
484:,
480:,
451:β’
443:β
416:,
412:,
395:β’
387:β
345:,
341:,
337:,
333:,
325:.
285:.
271:.
237:}}
225:}}
215::
209:}}
193:}}
183::
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1515:Β·
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125:)
119:)
81:(
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