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236: 406:- No wonder fewer people are volunteering on Knowledge. With the guidelines becomes more strict for articles every month, people are giving up on Knowledge. A lot of the older games don't have an official web site, but they're still notable because they were released in the marketplace and people were buying them from department stores. There are some "unofficial" references for older video games on the Internet, but there are also magazine and newspaper references that might be interesting to look at for some of the older games. 647:– Most separate officially published and released video games are presumed to be notable, as someone back in the day had to have either reviewed or covered them in one way or another. As GVnayR pointed out above, most of these sources would be print-only as well as in another language (in this case, Japanese). – 331:- indeed this is frustrating. what kind of sources you want? I already added the "source" from super-famicom.jp which is the "official" SFC games site. this is a video game from 1994 and it was never released outside Japan, unfortunately there is no official web site like all these new generation games. 1119:
I agree with you for the most part, although notability is by definition subjective - that's what the guidelines are for. All the "Keep" arguments here boil down to, "Well, it seems notable to me." or "There are lots of articles just like it." etc. It seems like any article with a few external links
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have received a torrent of attention from relevant sources in Japan. The magazine articles won't be on hand because a lot of these games predate the internet's widespread usage and magazines are the mainstay of sources for them, in fact magazines are still hugely influential in the videogame arena,
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having an official website does not make something notable. That is an internally controlled source. It is like just having self-punlished an autobiography does not make someone notable. This is a source controlled by the thing. I have not figured out if this is notable, but having an official
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I never played this game before, it means absolutely nothing to me, so I couldn't care less. I just think it's totally unfair deleting it just because someone thinks it should be deleted, plus I don't understand your fixation with the article. another funny thing is... the article was created at
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I would have presumed there would have been reviews of this, considering the fact that it sold so well. I conducted several searches in Japanese and on Japanese video-game sites, so you can imagine my surprise when I was unable to find anything. You would think if game was notable, it might
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XX:54, two minutes later someone (YOU) already adds that Proposing deletion stuff. Chill out man, people (non-vandals) are not here having fun, give the creator some time to improve the article. it's because of this kind of behaviour that sometimes I think I should give up on Knowledge. --
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about the lack of coverage in independent sources, and assertions from an editor that discussing such topics are "waste of time," I searched for new sources and evaluated existing sources on the page that support notability. Many sources were wikis and discussion boards, which are not
364:. While I would normally allow more time for articles, I took a good deal of my time to search for sources on this game in both English and Japanese. I didn't just nominate this because the current sources were no good. I nominated it because I made 745:, but I played other games from the series and I can say that those games were (or are) very popular not only in Japan. I grew up in South Asia, this series was very popular back then. I wonder why no one created the page during all these years... 984:
shouldn't be deleted or whatever. What do you mean "The game has already been merged"? I only added the video games of the series, there is a lot to improve... And btw, the term notability is subjective. Do you want to improve the article
48:. Editors agree that although the coverage required for notability has not been demonstrated, it can be assumed to exist under the circumstances. That does not prevent specific unsourced content in the article from being contested per 436:. However, I do agree that video games, especially old ones, can be hard to find sources for (compared to new ones), and that content about them can be encyclopaedic. But it's not impossible. Take the WP article for 529:
as an argument (why else would you write it here, then?) and statements like "it's just the truth," "I edit a lot of video game articles" and "I'm here to improve articles" are commendable, but unhelpful to your case.
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is not Japan-exclusive. The arcade (first) version was released both in Europe and North America, plus, it was released for several home consoles, so the probabilities of having more info are much higher.
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P.S. Lately (or since I registered on Knowledge) i've been editing a lot video games articles, so I know what I'm saying. I'm here trying to improve the articles a little, not to destroy or delete them.
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I, Jethrobot... now you are having a point: "Then it can be merged to that series page, perhaps." The page doesn't exist yet (I think), so it's a good idea to create the page. As I said I never played
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if this one article is deleted. Articles are handled on a case-by-case basis. I know you guys are not vandals, but I nominated this because I don't think the article is supported by WP policies.
1069:"A lot of the older games don't have an official web site, but they're still notable because they were released in the marketplace and people were buying them from department stores." per GVnayR 976:
Yes, it is worth keeping, for now. I was wondering, if you had played this in the past, during your childhood, would have the same opinion? I agree about merging the article, but first the page
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I've already lost enough time on this. You're not going to change my opinion and vice-versa. I have more important things in life to worry about, I need to go for now. My opinion is simple,
950:. Currently, the article is a description of the characters and plot. Is this really worth keeping, considering the game no longer has any sources provide evidence for its notability? 334:
honestly, if an article like this (with cover art + info + sources + categories already added) is deleted, then I think we have a big problem in here, because then you would have to be
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a waste of time because they almost certainly exist but are unlikely to be present. I don't believe for a second that a crossover game starring characters from series as beloved as
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actually show up somewhere on Japanese websites aside from places to purchase the game. So no, I am not convinced of notability based on a presumption that reviews must exist.
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Primary sources might be the place to go for plot info, but not for sales-- there are good reasons this should be obtained independently. The game has already been merged to
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even now. Even a system as popular as the Commodore 64 has a weak web presence when it comes to magazine scans available, but it's not because the magazines don't exist. Take
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Just being "released into the marketplace" and people buying them is not sufficient. Millions of product exist on the market and we don't need a WP entry for all of them.
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In articles about video games, citing the game itself is often attractive. Knowledge favours secondary sources, and the use of primary sources should be minimised.
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templates I kept adding to the article because you didn't agree with me. I don't understand why you didn't just leave it on there until good sources were found."
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templates I kept adding to the article because you didn't agree with me. I don't understand why you didn't just leave it on there until good sources were found.
1020:: It's unfortunate that I am alone in this, but several editors who have supported keeping the article are using arguments that are not grounded in any policy: 299: 270: 597:
per Hydao and GVnayR. - Even though the game is unknown overseas, it is somewhat well-known in Japan and apparently part of a larger franchise called the
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for instance-- it's a Japan-only release. The article cites several reviews both in English and Japanese, and its notability is backed up by sources.
847:, you might look at that and wonder how it's notable, and struggle to find any kind of sourcing online. Search for it on a magazine scan database like 875:, as it appears that vgchartz.com is not a reliable source for this information. Now, there is nothing that asserts the notability of this game. 796:
A few games from that serie already have a page. It is better to improve or expand the existent articles rather than delete or merge them.
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In the case of the majority of older console games, trying to show them the door because relevant sources don't jump out of the internet
205:. Search results in English were lacking, so I searched for the title in Japanese, where reviews and such were more likely to be found: 17: 690: 521:
Fine, Kiki KaiKai isn't a Japan-only release. My bad. This still doesn't change the fact that this article needs to fulfill
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which can also be merged. The games by themselves may not be notable, but there's enough content for a series page. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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It's not about whether this game has an official website or not. It's about whether the game is discussed
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I also have yet to see a policy noting that all published and released video games are inherently notable.
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have been around for a long time, and it hasn't changed all that much in the sense that it has required
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effort to look for sources on my own. And I didn't find any. Before I did this, you kept removing the
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It seems that you are the only user who insists in deleting the article. Go to the official website -
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This is an assumption and there really hasn't been any evidence that such sources have ever existed.
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and it quickly becomes apparent that it's just the internet's limits, not the lack of sources.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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is not "reliable", well, doesn't make much sense the existence of the wikipedia page about
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No, it's not. We have many, many guidelines that help us determine notability.
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Honestly, I didn't use it as an argument, really... but it's just the truth. --
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if this one article is deleted. Articles are handled on a case-by-case basis."
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game (Japan-only release). After a frustrating and unsatisfying discussion on
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Finally, one editor of the page asserted the following in a revision summary:
903:- maybe you'll find some uber lovely "reliable" source in there. Also, since 996: 908: 904: 769: 1041:
Because sources exist, but are no longer inaccessible, per Someoneanother
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magazine (translated from Japanese). No reviews or rating information.
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I noted this above, but I have yet to see where this guideline exists.
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And yet, the sales information for this game has now been removed per
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all SFC/SNES (Super Famicom / Super Nintendo) video games are notable
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and delete 75% of the wiki video game articles out there" per Hydao.
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This is the only source I was able to find that supports notability.
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Then it can be merged to that series page, perhaps. Notability is
247:. I know of no Knowledge guideline that supports this statement. 197: 1159:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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on a site that appears to be a blog (translated from Japanese).
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at the very beginning I guess, and it was in good faith.
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and delete 75% of the wiki video game articles out there.
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I disagree that guidelines are becoming more strict.
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this very brief description of the game and its sales
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declare that we must remove most video game articles
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declare that we must remove most video game articles
434:third party, independent sources for a good while 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 1169:). No further edits should be made to this page. 1120:as references can past muster these days. Eh. -- 221:, which doesn't provide evidence for notability. 661:list of video game-related deletion discussions 182: 8: 659:Note: This debate has been included in the 298:Note: This debate has been included in the 269:Note: This debate has been included in the 995:P.S. The page will be something like this: 467:"Before I did this, you kept removing the 300:list of Games-related deletion discussions 297: 271:list of Japan-related deletion discussions 268: 689: 980:should be improved. Until then I think 483:"Also, you should avoid arguments that 375:Also, you should avoid arguments that 1027:"Notability is subjective" per Hydao. 212:reporting very high sales in Japan. 7: 804:. Feel free to help improving it. -- 601:(which tangentially related to the 989:? I guess the answer is no, right? 800:And by the way, here is the page: 695: 24: 362:third-party, independent sources 683: 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1: 677: 778:. There's already a page on 671: 525:. Also, of course you used 901:http://www.banpresto.co.jp/ 665: 570:the article, that's all. -- 1186: 1152:05:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 1128:04:04, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 1113:03:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 1012:03:14, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 966:02:55, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 925:02:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 891:23:52, 26 July 2011 (UTC) 863:18:54, 23 July 2011 (UTC) 814:02:38, 21 July 2011 (UTC) 790:13:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 759:02:14, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 733:00:18, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 708:00:06, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 652:00:05, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 636:00:18, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 620:from its larger series. 580:20:00, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 546:19:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 517:19:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 502:19:17, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 456:16:10, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 416:15:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 395:15:38, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 352:11:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 321:06:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 292:06:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 263:05:54, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 227:in the online version of 65:05:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 1162:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 198:the article's talk page 1142:webpage is not enough. 987:Compatible Hero Series 978:Compatible Hero Series 948:Compatible Hero Series 802:Compatible Hero Series 776:Compatible Hero Series 1018:Note to closing admin 911:. Shall we delete it? 192:Contested PROD for a 768:to a new article on 853:Amiga Magazine Rack 780:The Great Battle IV 599:Compati Hero Series 765:Merge and redirect 603:Super Robot Taisen 476:I only removed it 44:The result was 1144:John Pack Lambert 1111: 964: 889: 849:World of Spectrum 731: 710: 634: 544: 454: 393: 323: 319: 303: 294: 290: 274: 261: 219:A credits listing 210:sales information 63: 1177: 1164: 1105: 958: 883: 725: 702: 701: 700: 693: 687: 681: 675: 669: 658: 628: 538: 448: 387: 313: 304: 284: 275: 255: 187: 186: 172: 120: 102: 62: 60: 53: 34: 1185: 1184: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1173: 1167:deletion review 1160: 1095:WP:ALLORNOTHING 696: 664: 527:WP:ALLORNOTHING 129: 93: 77: 74: 56: 54: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1183: 1181: 1172: 1171: 1155: 1154: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1116: 1115: 1089: 1088: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1071: 1070: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1057: 1056: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1043: 1042: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 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Rider 461:KiKi KaiKai 438:KiKi KaiKai 203:independent 156:free images 982:Gaia Saver 743:Gaia Saver 523:WP:PRODUCT 469:notability 370:notability 366:good faith 79:Gaia Saver 71:Gaia Saver 58:Sandstein 997:Kunio-kun 909:VG Chartz 905:VG Chartz 770:Banpresto 605:series). 225:A listing 1122:Jtalledo 1085:COHERENT 934:WP:VG/RS 873:WP:VG/RS 836:Ultraman 784:Jtalledo 705:MuZemike 649:MuZemike 607:Jonny2x4 358:in-depth 336:COHERENT 123:View log 1139:Comment 860:another 857:Someone 230:Famitsu 162:WP refs 150:scholar 96:protect 91:history 1125:(talk) 828:Gundam 787:(talk) 430:WP:GNG 408:GVnayR 134:Google 100:delete 1004:Hydao 917:Hydao 838:will 806:Hydao 751:Hydao 572:Hydao 509:Hydao 494:Hydao 344:Hydao 177:JSTOR 138:books 117:views 109:watch 105:links 16:< 1148:talk 1008:talk 932:Per 921:talk 834:and 820:Keep 810:talk 755:talk 698:Talk 645:Keep 611:talk 595:Keep 576:talk 568:keep 513:talk 498:talk 478:once 428:and 426:WP:N 412:talk 404:Keep 348:talk 329:Keep 170:FENS 144:news 113:logs 87:talk 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Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
deletion review
WP:V
 Sandstein 
05:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Gaia Saver
Gaia Saver
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR
TWL
Super Famicom
the article's talk page
independent
sales information

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