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saw the transition from traditional point fighter (Bains) to the modern kickboxer (Lewis). The fact that the favorite Bains got so badly creamed by an alternate stylist was responsible for that birth with the PKA championship the result. If there was an article on the fight I would argue for a
Redirect but lacking that one could view this as on par with contestants on the first sanctioned MMA fight. You could say it was a single event (as the original nominator points out) but that event had wider ramifications.
624:
editor are obliged not to pile work on others which you have constantly done. The issues have been pointed out to you many times by many editors and I can't help feeling that if you put even half the effort into the original articles that you do screaming about others you would not have these problems. And by the way all your accusations aside - people who have been commenting and voting on martial art AfDs for years will continue to do so. They just are less likely to do you any favors.
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On his record alone I don't think it can pass the notability requirement for the reasons given by the nominator. However, the Baines/Lewis fight was debatably the birth of professional
American kickboxing. Some say it really was four years later with the first PKA tournament but this fight clearly
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since the his most significant achievement appears to be having been winning a state karate championship and even that doesn't say when, what organization, or at what level (since some of the other sources show victories as a brown belt which definitely doesn't show notability). I don't see any
623:
then vote. The issue is the quality of references, the reliability on how they are used, and really messy articles. People are forced to look carefully at what you provide and they do look for what else is out there. In this case I haven't voted yet because I was looking but you as a primary
546:
What bothers me is that the references don't back up what they claim. The reference for the statement multiple tournament winner only refers to one tournament as a brown belt. A household name - the references says no such thing, again a single tournament entry. One would like to trust the
346:
https://books.google.com/books?id=yE1HsGFasGYC&pg=PA146&lpg=PA146&dq=gregory+baines+karate&source=bl&ots=qVjxMwftp0&sig=0BBllBZy9RQ6fcNa3AivMhZoA2A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gC4HVf7HCMi5ggTj0YGICA&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=gregory%20baines%20karate&f=false
324:
https://books.google.com/books?id=YOFuyqBrKTIC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=gregory+baines+karate&source=bl&ots=LhcfRi39wy&sig=hUHtz6vsdSk3lxzIWj4m-wXBJZ0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5y4HVd37B4i9ggSL54LQBQ&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=gregory%20baines%20karate&f=false
313:
https://books.google.com/books?id=1hAPBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT153&lpg=PT153&dq=gregory+baines+karate&source=bl&ots=wIvbIPtAbg&sig=FyI2M-DmL5pqcM6Lp3tG206024g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nS4HVdrNGsqmNpeugYgI&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=gregory%20baines%20karate&f=false
243:, numerous articles mentions of him through many articles , , , Baines was actually the favorite to beat Joe Lewis Greg was the top heavyweight fighter in the nation in 1970 considered to be a household name in American karate the fight itself is a major fight in the world of kickboxing
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https://books.google.com/books?id=-c8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=gregory+baines+karate&source=bl&ots=CD7Ot2TTJ7&sig=1OkjE6n7jV4kmzTPalilMsjvvMQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gC4HVf7HCMi5ggTj0YGICA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=gregory%20baines%20karate&f=false
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https://books.google.com/books?id=RM4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=GREG+BAInES+karate&source=bl&ots=SyEZApSbOy&sig=FtxAGyRhy6jH3yOf7UfJCdPeWxQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Bf4CVdSIN9HkgwSBqYPACA&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=GREG%20BAInES%20karate&f=false
291:
https://books.google.com/books?id=39oDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=greg+baines+kenpo&source=bl&ots=7g0wN_8iYh&sig=66sIuY8ji1gJ2HwHbZMVGy3gvLM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NSwHVbXbIoH-gwSuh4TwDg&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=greg%20baines%20kenpo&f=false
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CrazyAces, why do you always relist every source from the article? You don't respond to the comments of other editors, you just try and bury them by essentially putting the article in the discussion. The championships you sourced were won as a brown belt which definitely doesn't meet
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https://books.google.com/books?id=cM4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=greg+baines+kenpo&source=bl&ots=1cQFfzfdUH&sig=ExiwfqYbqLAO7wlC0EvKMz1QsLU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BywHVZy0OJDtggTWxYCIBA&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=greg%20baines%20kenpo&f=false
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https://books.google.com/books?id=tfhV-DlgoyQC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=greg+baines+kenpo&source=bl&ots=IZJwrXdDLQ&sig=4KAh6aKQuLn_uBsiaFddf02hq8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BywHVZy0OJDtggTWxYCIBA&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=greg%20baines%20kenpo&f=false
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The 3 of you fail to do this for many of the articles that you are nominating. You can have the articles deleted if you choose. Arguing with all three of you is pointless to me. None of you are researching the articles as I clearly saw with
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Appears to be notable for only 1 thing--his fight with Joe Lewis (which Baines lost by knockout in the second round). He won no major karate tournaments as a black belt and the coverage is passing mentions and mainly in articles about
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https://books.google.com/books?id=ZNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA35&dq=%22greg+baines%22+california&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9zEHVYbsKtHtgwSCh4TYBw&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22greg%20baines%22%20california&f=false
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Baines and his fight with Lewis are mentioned here. Since Baines doesn't seem to meet any notability criteria and all of the coverage on him appears to be of his fight with Lewis, a redirect seems like the best option.
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https://books.google.com/books?id=4kXO2krxZREC&pg=PA54&dq=%22greg+baines%22+california&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9zEHVYbsKtHtgwSCh4TYBw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=greg&f=false
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https://books.google.com/books?id=Q84DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA38&dq=%22greg+baines%22+california&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9zEHVYbsKtHtgwSCh4TYBw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=greg&f=false
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I responded to the comments and fighting for a championships shows that someone has moved up! He was also the top heavyweight in the nation at the time, so that confers notablity!
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463:. Everything else is a passing mention or related to his fight with Lewis. Biographies are not considered notable for one event, especially when it's a second round knockout loss.
231:, stated to be a heavyweight winner of multiple tournaments. California State Heavyweight Champion , Northern Pacific Nationals Heavyweight Champion Part of an elite team of
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Where is the evidence that he's notable as a kickboxer? One fight doesn't show it. I use MANOTE as a second chance for those who fail GNG. This is a case where he fails both.
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This source is another passing mention of being Joe Lewis's opponent. If you can't find much info on him that's a pretty good sign he's not notable and doesn't meet
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since the driving force to the change to kickboxing was the performance of Lewis rather than that of Bains and it could easily slip over the edge.
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going on here, but he seems to have been a martial artist of at least SOME note prior to that fight. Article needs definite improvement since
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A better written article could have made the above clearer, as it stands now it remains buried in trivia. However, I called it
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http://www.scifighting.com/2014/09/21/34322/40-years-ago-week-joe-lewis-professionalized-sport-martial-arts/
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He had a name change and passed away from a car accident. Information on him is rather tough to find.
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shouldn't be on wikipedia either. He was only famous for one battle and was the first one killed.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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except for what relates to his fight with Lewis, which makes this look like
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That is your opinion. Let other users make their own opinions. You do not
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853:. Please show me any other significant coverage that you found on Baines.
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I show them so people can easily access them. It has been stated that
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Joe Lewis (martial artist)#Kickboxing and full-contact karate career
568:. If I put it in there, it is probably there. Part of AFD is using
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Search for additional sources, if the main concern is notability.
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I am not going to walk you through the references like I did for
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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but you use it as LAW! Since you want to use guides he passes
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list of United States of
America-related deletion discussions
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/James
Thompson (Judo)
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http://issuu.com/officialkaratemag/docs/ok.fall.2012b
794:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
754:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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441:list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions
211:list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
920:). No further edits should be made to this page.
816:Knowledge (XXG) is not a collection of trivia
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727:. I wouldn't oppose the redirect.
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845:coverage that would meet
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527:wikipedia martial arts.
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909:Please do not modify it.
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215:Peter Rehse
156:free images
71:Greg Baines
63:Greg Baines
842:WP:ATHLETE
765:have a cup
914:talk page
838:WP:MANOTE
820:Simonm223
725:WP:MANOTE
630:Weak keep
570:WP:BEFORE
479:WP:MANOTE
461:WP:MANOTE
445:• Gene93k
425:• Gene93k
233:Joe Lewis
37:talk page
916:or in a
855:Papaursa
851:WP:BLP1E
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406:contribs
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115:View log
39:or in a
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162:WP refs
150:scholar
88:protect
83:history
887:Mdtemp
883:WP:GNG
847:WP:GNG
759:Coffee
717:Delete
525:WP:OWN
505:Mdtemp
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239:, and
195:Mdtemp
193:Lewis.
134:Google
92:delete
771:beans
483:GUIDE
481:is a
177:JSTOR
138:books
122:Stats
109:views
101:watch
97:links
16:<
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229:Keep
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170:FENS
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75:edit
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.