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:Articles for deletion/David Talbott - Knowledge

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220:: Trevor Palmer mentions Talbott once on p. 122 in a group of fellow "Saturnists", hardly a "notable" citation. Talbott is arguably the most active player in the post-Velikovsky era of "Velikovskian and neo-Velikovskian" studies, pursuing his monomania of the "Saturn Hypothesis" for 35 years, who has been successful in obtaining financial support from a small number of entrepreneurs with more money than sound scientific understanding for his multi-media activities (video documentaries, conferences, publishing, private moderated list-serve, etc.). In 1998 he attempted an unregistered stock offering to raise a million dollars for his umbrella organization WholeMind Corp. that envisioned a distance-learning component, which evidently was not successful. Agreed, Kronos was not a meaningfully peer-reviewed journal. Although Talbott's book The Saturn Myth from Doubleday never had a second printing, it is held by 193 libraries according to WorldCat database, compared to John White's Pole Shift from same publisher in the same year which is held by 280 libraries. Cochrane's Martian Metamorphoses is held by only two libraries; de Grazia's Chaos and Creation, by 31 libraries. In comparison, Henry Bauer's 1984 Beyond Velikovsky is held by 554 libraries, de Grazia's 1966 The Velikovsky Affair by 520, Scientists Confront Velikovsky by 1340, Velikovsky and Establishment Science by 147, and Carl Sagan and Immmanuel Velikovsky by 58. Cochrane's book and de Grazia's recent "Quantavolution" series books are self-published.-- 300:. Your assertion "Non-mainstream ideas need to be notable to be included in Knowledge" displays the very nub of your agenda, doesn't it? Are you implying that "mainstream" ideas do *not* need to be notable to be included in wikipedia? Basically, you just want to eradicate "non-mainstream" ideas from wikipedia, don't you? Why are you so scared of them? If articles on them are well written, from a neutral point of view, and verifiable, what is the problem?-- 349:. He seems to have since departed the community. It's a shame he's not still around, cos I think you would've gotten on with him so well. Man, seems to me you two guys were like peas in a pod - same views, same interests, even exact same writing style, same excellent knowledge of wikipedia policies and guidelines (gee, you picked them up real quick, I must say! Me, I've been here years, and I'm still learning). He gave me a bit of a hard time on the 517:. From academic notability "The person is known for originating an important new concept, theory or idea which is the subject of multiple, independent, non-trivial reviews or studies in works meeting our standards for reliable sources. ", which this person has. Even is the works are refuiting is idea, they are acknowleding his theory is there. 198:, and neither Ev Cochrane nor Alfred de Grazia are not an independent source both being heavily enculturated in catastrophism circles. I wonder whether Alfred de Grazia deserves a Knowledge article himself as it seems that he doesn't rise to the notability asked for in 404:
I've already given my vote for the article's deletion. There's little point in you trying to harrass me into changing it. And if you continue to delete my comments calling them "personal attacks", there's not much point me bothing to type anything at
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account was technically a "sock puppet" by rules of the policy anyways... I don't really see what difference it makes what login name you use anyways, it's only a handle! It's your actual editing style that's the important
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It is not my agenda to exclude or include anything in the encyclopedia except for those articles which do not live up to the guidelines and policies set forth by the Knowledge community. My agenda is not what makes
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An inadequate section is no reason for deletion. His books & magazine aren't separately notable, but he's notable enough. Move the other stuff into here, and reduce it to a size befitting its importance.
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is what determines the applicability of certain inclusion and exclusion guidelines. If you dislike notability as a requirement for inclusion of Knowledge articles, you can discuss your objections at
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article, but I guess come to think about it, he did spur us to improve the article and make it more verifiable and neutral. Yep, sure miss that ole' ScienceApologist. --
296:, I recognise your prose style a mile off! LOL You make take that as a compliment if you wish; it is however just intended as a neutral statement of fact, not as a 594: 119:
The subject of this article is an amateur comparative mythologist who has some quirky theories but hasn't received the recognition required for a
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I have pointed out that your opinion is contrary to the guidelines and policies of Knowledge. You have not responded to this. Also,
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The "Saturn Model" envisions a primordial, seasonless "Golden Age" in which a crescent-Saturn hovered over the north pole.
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20:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC) Anyways, if the consensus of the vote turns out to be for "delete", that's fine by me.... --
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This is enough of a theory that people are writing books about it. As such, it is notable under the academic criteria.
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I think you make an excellent case for deletion right there by establishing the fact that this person isn't notable.
186:'s one and only edit. Additionally, mere mention of something in a book is not enough to establish notability per 620: 392: 36: 255:- the article seems fairly informative and is well referenced. It could be further improved if needed. Moreover 619:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Well it doesn't really matter, does it? Let's just say once upon a time there was another editor called
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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This is the first time that I ever had contact with you since I started my account.
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for conducting witch hunts is a serious offense. You should not be making it here.
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Knowledge article. In particular, he, as a subject, does not rise to the level of
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Pensée (Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered)
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Which "important new concept, theory or idea" are you referring to?
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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nor is it a good justification for an encyclopedia article.
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Electric universe (concept)
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —
39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 623:). No further edits should be made to this page. 322:But you already told me (months ago) that your 387:a guideline for Knowledge. Instead community 8: 593:: This debate has been included in the 472:Just curious, DGG, by what criteria of 7: 576:per nom - viz fails the standard at 24: 595:list of People-related deletions 476:do you think makes him notable? 444:Text removed that was posted by 309:Accusing somebody of starting a 168:Text removed that was posted by 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 605:06:12, 13 September 2007 (UTC) 585:18:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 562:22:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 544:06:52, 13 September 2007 (UTC) 531:19:00, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 522:12:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 507:11:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 481:04:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 468:03:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 55:18:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 427:20:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 414:20:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 400:20:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 358:20:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 341:20:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 332:20:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 318:20:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 305:20:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 288:19:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 268:21:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 242:19:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 225:16:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 207:17:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 161:16:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 147:16:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 132:15:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 640: 549:(post-closure comment by 393:Knowledge talk:Notability 616:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 422:is not about "voting". 347:User:ScienceApologist 324:User:ScienceApologist 294:User:ScienceApologist 261:User:ScienceApologist 553:moved to talk page) 351:Immanuel Velikovsky 311:sockpuppet account 607: 598: 564: 509: 631: 618: 599: 589: 555: 551:Nondistinguished 528:Nondistinguished 496: 494: 478:Nondistinguished 424:Nondistinguished 397:Nondistinguished 338:Nondistinguished 315:Nondistinguished 292:You are clearly 285:Nondistinguished 257:Nondistinguished 239:Nondistinguished 204:Nondistinguished 192:Kronos (journal) 144:Nondistinguished 129:Nondistinguished 110: 92: 34: 639: 638: 634: 633: 632: 630: 629: 628: 627: 621:deletion review 614: 602:John Vandenberg 535:From the text. 490: 298:personal attack 196:reliable source 83: 67: 64: 44:The result was 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 637: 635: 626: 625: 609: 608: 587: 571: 570: 569: 568: 567: 566: 565: 511: 510: 495: 487: 486: 485: 484: 483: 440: 439: 438: 437: 436: 435: 434: 433: 432: 431: 430: 429: 373: 372: 371: 370: 369: 368: 367: 366: 365: 364: 363: 362: 361: 360: 271: 270: 249: 248: 247: 246: 245: 244: 230: 229: 228: 227: 212: 211: 210: 209: 164: 163: 152:Also related: 139:: See related 117: 116: 63: 58: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 636: 624: 622: 617: 611: 610: 606: 603: 596: 592: 588: 586: 583: 579: 575: 572: 563: 560: 559: 554: 552: 547: 546: 545: 542: 538: 534: 533: 532: 529: 525: 524: 523: 520: 516: 513: 512: 508: 504: 500: 493: 489: 488: 482: 479: 475: 471: 470: 469: 465: 461: 460: 455: 452: 451: 450: 449: 448: 447: 446:a banned user 428: 425: 421: 417: 416: 415: 412: 408: 403: 402: 401: 398: 394: 390: 386: 381: 380: 379: 378: 377: 376: 375: 374: 359: 356: 352: 348: 344: 343: 342: 339: 335: 334: 333: 330: 325: 321: 320: 319: 316: 312: 308: 307: 306: 303: 299: 295: 291: 290: 289: 286: 282: 278: 275: 274: 273: 272: 269: 266: 262: 258: 254: 251: 250: 243: 240: 236: 235: 234: 233: 232: 231: 226: 223: 219: 216: 215: 214: 213: 208: 205: 201: 197: 193: 189: 185: 184:76.209.50.134 181: 178: 177: 176: 175: 174: 173: 172: 171: 170:a banned user 162: 159: 155: 151: 150: 149: 148: 145: 142: 138: 134: 133: 130: 126: 122: 114: 108: 104: 100: 96: 91: 87: 82: 78: 74: 70: 69:David Talbott 66: 65: 62: 61:David Talbott 59: 57: 56: 53: 52: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 615: 612: 590: 573: 558:Black Falcon 556: 548: 536: 514: 491: 457: 453: 443: 442: 441: 276: 252: 217: 179: 167: 166: 165: 136: 135: 118: 51:Black Falcon 49: 45: 43: 31: 28: 541:Turlo Lomon 519:Turlo Lomon 182:: This is 499:Wknight94 454:Weak keep 389:consensus 222:Phaedrus7 582:Eusebeus 327:thing.-- 113:View log 411:feline1 407:feline1 355:feline1 329:feline1 302:feline1 277:Comment 265:feline1 218:Comment 200:WP:PROF 180:Comment 158:Dawdler 137:Comment 121:notable 86:protect 81:history 578:WP:BIO 574:Delete 474:WP:BIO 420:WP:AfD 405:all!-- 281:WP:BIO 125:WP:BIO 90:delete 156:. -- 107:views 99:watch 95:links 16:< 591:Note 515:Keep 503:talk 464:talk 385:WP:N 253:Keep 188:WP:N 103:logs 77:talk 73:edit 48:. – 46:keep 600:-- 597:. 459:DGG 259:(= 111:– ( 580:. 505:) 466:) 202:. 127:. 105:| 101:| 97:| 93:| 88:| 84:| 79:| 75:| 501:( 462:( 115:) 109:) 71:(

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
deletion review
Black Falcon
18:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
David Talbott
David Talbott
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
notable
WP:BIO
Nondistinguished
15:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Pensée (Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered)
Nondistinguished
16:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Electric universe (concept)
Dawdler
16:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
a banned user
76.209.50.134
WP:N
Kronos (journal)

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